View Full Version : Did Mr Mears really design the Wilkinson swords survival knife
Iam far from the expert on knives and such,ive only got a couple of Mora issue army knives myself and they will do me for now at least or i may even buy another and another when i eventually need one.However i do fancy one of those Falkniven f1 jobbies,very nice in my opinion.
Anyway am i right that ive read that Mr Mears designed the Wilkinson Swords survival knife? i am sure i read this somewhere.If so his thinking on knives has really changed and evolved over the years from the looks of things.As he says himself he is allways learning,i guess thats what bushcraft is all about really.
bloodline
19-07-2005, 14:30
I used a Wilkingson sword mod survival knife over 25 years ago and that is the same model you can still buy my mate still has the actual knife so i dont think he did
Iam far from the expert on knives and such,ive only got a couple of Mora issue army knives myself and they will do me for now at least or i may even buy another and another when i eventually need one.However i do fancy one of those Falkniven f1 jobbies,very nice in my opinion.
Anyway am i right that ive read that Mr Mears designed the Wilkinson Swords survival knife? i am sure i read this somewhere.If so his thinking on knives has really changed and evolved over the years from the looks of things.As he says himself he is allways learning,i guess thats what bushcraft is all about really.
The Fallknivens are excellent knives true work horses and they don't rust to bits in five minutes like some of the high carbon steels.
If you mean the Wilkinson Sword Dartmoor (which was once termed as the Wilkinson Sword Survival Knife) yes, didn't bode well for future projects did it :D
I used a Wilkingson sword mod survival knife over 25 years ago and that is the same model you can still buy my mate still has the actual knife so i dont think he did
Hi bloodline I have one of those and the current issue MOD survival knife, but wouldn't touch the dartmoor. :)
Yes the Dartmore is the one i ment,did Mr Mears really design that? I guess it was designed in the 80s as it was the fashion and current thinking for giant rambo style knives at that time.
Iam far from the expert on knives and such,ive only got a couple of Mora issue army knives myself and they will do me for now at least or i may even buy another and another when i eventually need one.However i do fancy one of those Falkniven f1 jobbies,very nice in my opinion.
Anyway am i right that ive read that Mr Mears designed the Wilkinson Swords survival knife? i am sure i read this somewhere.If so his thinking on knives has really changed and evolved over the years from the looks of things.As he says himself he is allways learning,i guess thats what bushcraft is all about really.
the answer to this is yes he did
on page 15 of the survival handbook by raymond mears published in 1990 there is a picture of the wilkison sword survival knife, beneath the picture it reads
"The wilkinson sword survival knife, designed by the author to combine the ideals of a woodsman's knife with the requirements of an expeditioner."
it is very possible that rays thinking on such a design may have changed since 1990, I work in design and there are a number of things which I designed many years ago which make me cringe now
the answer to this is yes he did
on page 15 of the survival handbook by raymond mears published in 1990 there is a picture of the wilkison sword survival knife, beneath the picture it reads
"The wilkinson sword survival knife, designed by the author to combine the ideals of a woodsman's knife with the requirements of an expeditioner."
it is very possible that rays thinking on such a design may have changed since 1990, I work in design and there are a number of things which I designed many years ago which make me cringe nowI guess you have to think that you designed those things during that time and that time was then and this is now if you understand me,so you shouldent cringe too much really Stuart,same for Mr Ray Mears too i guess.
Ryan Woods
19-07-2005, 16:17
From what I read, the latest Dartmoor surival knife was designed with the help of royal marines. However, I have not heard anyone talk about the knife with a love for it.
If it had a micarta handle rather then the hollow thing it would be better IMO. It is better then the MOD issue knife but they do cost a lot.
Spacemonkey
19-07-2005, 18:04
The Wilkinson Sword knife was featured in Combat and Survival monthly issue 1 I think back in 1987!! I'll check tomorrow as I have it at work...
I've always thought that the Wilkinson Sword survival knife was designed with the influence of "Lofty" Wiseman. I hadn't even heard about Ray Mears when those knives first became known to me when I was still at school. But if I'm mistaken, then so be it.
I remember saying that I would definitely buy one of those knives when I had enough money, but today, I don't want one anymore! They were advertised in the old Survival Aids catalogue(now Penrith Survival I think).
The "Dartmoor" is different due to the bigger saw teeth on the back of the blade.
Julian.
Even an Aussie from way downunder can tell you that John Wiseman was most involved and he collaborated a lot in the design of the original Wilkinson Sword Survival knife!
Ray Mears????? I don't know about that!
JonathanD
19-07-2005, 23:41
I quite like the old Wilkie Survival knife over the re-edition Dartmoor, much more macho lines and sleeker blade, reminds me of those years during the summer hols when I'd dream about owning one whilst trying to work out how to stop the blade on my £5.99 hollow handle Rambo knife from wobbling :(
Ray Mears original Survival Handbook does attribute the design to him, Lofty Wiseman was prolific at the time, but I can't remember a firm connection with him and the design. My old SWAT and C&S magazines have no mention of either gentlemen being connected to the design.
Graham_S
19-07-2005, 23:59
"lofty" wiseman designed his own survival knife at around the same time although it was more of a parang than a knife.
lofty wiseman survival knife (http://www.shop.edirectory.co.uk/penrith_survival/pages/moreinfoa.asp?pe=IEGIQ_+lofty+ wiseman+knife+leather+sheath&cid=55)
Lofty designed the "Oakwood Survival Knife" which was a Parang in modern materials.
Ray Mears designed what is now called the Dartmoor Survival Knife, which when originally advertised by Survival Aids was described as being designed by "legendary outdoorsman Ray Mears" which Ihave always found curiuos as he wasabout the same age as me ,19 at the time..
Not long after this BBC2 screened a programme about a young man who worked in the city who had become a master of native techniques, the show included several apeareneces by Lofty.
At about the same time C&S magazine ran an advert for Woodlore and next to it was an advert for a book called Bushcraft by Mors Kochanski (published by Lone Pine) and later re-pubished as Northern Bushcraft.
Not long after this the Survival Handbook was published, which flopped in a big way, two years later it could be bought for £1 in most bargain bookstores.
After that came Operation Raliegh and then the "Tracks" magazine on BBC2, the rest is history.
Neil
raiderrescuer
20-07-2005, 05:44
In the book "Survival" edited by Len Cacutt (ISBN 1-55521-239-5 Chartwell Books) which was published in 1988 has quite a few pictures of the knife along with articles about how to use and choose "survival knives".
fwiw I have articles from the British Magazine "Outdoors Illustrated" 1993 era that featured Ray Mears quite often and in the article "Constant Companion" on knives he mentions the Woodlore & Mora and even a Parang but no mention of the Wilkinson.
zackerty
20-07-2005, 06:30
look here...
http://www.wilkinson-swords.co.uk/knives/
zackerty
20-07-2005, 06:35
http://www.armedforces-int.com/article.asp?pubID=15&catID=338&artID=541
the wilkinson sword dartmoor survival knife (links to which are above) is a new version of the original wilkinson sword survival knife, I dont think Ray had any input into the new version.
I cant find a photograph of the original version on the web otherwise i would show a side by side comparison of the original designed by ray mears and the new dartmoor, it can be difficult to tell them apart at first glance
Ryan Woods
20-07-2005, 11:02
Ok hands up, who would buy it andd why? Or why not? To me it looks attractive but because no-one spoke positively about the last one I just would not buy it.
I wouldnt buy it, I would even take one if it was given to me for free
Ryan Woods
20-07-2005, 11:19
Well in case that ever does happen to you shall I give you my address? :P But seriously, why not?
well knife choice is often a matter of opinion but for me personally this knife is far too heavy, the blade is too long at over 7inches making the tip dificult to control, the blade is too thick at 6mm it acts as a wedge rather than cuts, the finger guard would get in the way of any carving work, and the ricasso finger depression is right where the most importat part of the cutting edge should be, I dont like the amount of 'belly' the blades has, and i have no use for the saw which being 6mm wide would be very ineffective anyway, and i dont care for hollow handles.
in my opinion I dont think this knife would be of much use for anything other than hitting things with, and I do very little of that.
Ryan Woods
20-07-2005, 11:45
Thanks, very clear and informative.
They've tried to make it a jack of all trades, and it therefore is a master of none. I don't think it is possible to make a knife that could be used for so many different things, it would be easier to carry a knife, axe and a folding saw in my opinion!
....and probably cheaper!
oh except lots of u like darn expensive knives too
taxi!!!
....and probably cheaper!
oh except lots of u like darn expensive knives too
taxi!!!
Very true, but most of us are still fans of the Frost Mora ;) add to that a fiskars axe and a laplander and you have a very cheap efficient combination that most of us would be quite happy with that comes in at around £45- £50:D
i've tried to reply to this message so many times now but wen i click on submit everything goes wrong! (cannot refresh...connection to host failure/ lost blah blah techno babble)
anyways i keep trying to say...
...i agree. have me a mora and a IJ puukko but seem to use the mora the most.
theres something incredibly satisfying about getting a low-cost tool that is extremly efficient. i just cant put it down! (n boy can it throw sparks! :) )
anyway i digress. i find both the wilko dartmoor & the lofty a bit unsightly....and there a bit ott for my local woods.
is the MOD survival knife made by wilkinson sword or did i get the wrong end of the thread? i think its slightly reminisent of a leuku. have an old army surplus catalogue sitting about at home has em for >£20!!! 4 times that now (still not my cup of tea tho)
raiderrescuer
20-07-2005, 14:54
The Wilkinson sort of reminds me of Tom Brown's Tracker...there were several versions made and they were suppose to be the end all survival knife...heck Tom's knife was even in the movie "The Hunted"
http://www.shindendojo.de/img/Tracker%20004.jpg
http://img140.exs.cx/img140/6851/trackerandsheath2pq.jpg
http://www.twowolvesoutdoor.com/sitebuilder/images/tombrowntracker1-595x375.jpg
Browning's X-3 Model 686:
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/knives/images/322686m.jpg
its odd isnt it? there does seem to be a time in every famous survival/bushcraft instuctors life where for reasons unknown they decide to design a hidious and ridiculous knife which is hilariously usless. (which in some cases i think they probably regret)
I have held the above pictured knife and somthing you cant see from the pictures is that the handle is so big that i could not comfortably hold it unless i used two hands, its not a knife its an orc sword!!!!
I could just see a klingon making a ham sandwich with one of those knives!!
its odd isnt it? there does seem to be a time in every famous survival/bushcraft instuctors life where for reasons unknown they decide to design a hidious and ridiculous knife which is hilariously usless. (which in some cases i think they probably regret)
Have you used the Dartmoor knife? I don't mean this in a bad way but we should test it before we insult it.
They do give the most impressive sparks from a fire steel I have ever seen. Peopel that have used them say it's not quite as bad as you would think. They aren't a bushcraft knife but you can make a fire with them.
arctic hobo
20-07-2005, 20:47
Have you used the Dartmoor knife? I don't mean this in a bad way but we should test it before we insult it.
They do give the most impressive sparks from a fire steel I have ever seen. Peopel that have used them say it's not quite as bad as you would think. They aren't a bushcraft knife but you can make a fire with them.
I have. I'm no knife nut (far from it!) but it was awful. It epitomised the saying "Jack of all trades, master of none". :)
Spacemonkey
20-07-2005, 22:30
Yes it was in issue 1 of C&S (Monthly version) and I can't help feeling it was a product of it's time. Truth be told, most of us who saw it then probably wanted one. Practically all commercial 'survival' knives back then had some homage to the Rambo knife from what I remember! I have a friend with a Rambo knife and I'm still trying to persuade him to 'chop' it in for something smaller and sharper!
The knife I did see around late eighties or early nineties was made by Wilkinson Sword and had Wiseman's signature on the blade. Which one is this then? I seem to remember that there is a black and white diagram / outline of it in his SAS Surival Handbook.
They do give the most impressive sparks from a fire steel I have ever seen. Peopel that have used them say it's not quite as bad as you would think. They aren't a bushcraft knife but you can make a fire with them.
But would you buy or choose a knife just because it can throw sparks and make a fire? The bit of metal that comes with a firesteel can do that too... ;)
Have you used the Dartmoor knife? I don't mean this in a bad way but we should test it before we insult it.
They do give the most impressive sparks from a fire steel I have ever seen. Peopel that have used them say it's not quite as bad as you would think. They aren't a bushcraft knife but you can make a fire with them.
Thing is if I was going to carry something that big just to make good sparks for a fire, I might as well also carry petrol engined chainsaw to get the wood!
Have you used the Dartmoor knife? I don't mean this in a bad way but we should test it before we insult it.
They do give the most impressive sparks from a fire steel I have ever seen. Peopel that have used them say it's not quite as bad as you would think. They aren't a bushcraft knife but you can make a fire with them.
I have, a mate of mine in the forces lent me one for a while, to be honest I preferred both the MOD and the original Wilkie to it, I didn't like its balance or the very large square block of plastic that they called a handle.
The blade was somewhat unweildy to say the least and the suggestions for what you can use specific parts of the blade for are next to useless if you have any idea on how to use a knife in the firs place.
Someone here said it before about "Jack Of All Trades" and that summed it up pretty well IMO.
Have you used the Dartmoor knife? I don't mean this in a bad way but we should test it before we insult it.
They do give the most impressive sparks from a fire steel I have ever seen. Peopel that have used them say it's not quite as bad as you would think. They aren't a bushcraft knife but you can make a fire with them.
I have indeed, thats how I formed such a comprehensibly negitive opinion of it.
it does throw good sparks on a firesteel, but then so does a piece of glass
i'll try to bring a dartmoor to the bushmoot for people to play with.
if anyone has a knife that they think can keep up with it, we can make up a little competion :rolleyes: :D
ah suger, that meanws i might have to sharpen it :eek: :D
cheers, and.
i'll try to bring a dartmoor to the bushmoot for people to play with.
cheers, and.
Aahh, so you are not travelling lite then :D
i was sort of hoping to recruit a local bearer to carry it if i have to walk any distance :o ;) :D
i was sort of hoping to recruit a local bearer to carry it if i have to walk any distance :o ;) :D
I pity the one that gets to carry the Dartmoor :D :D :D
Justin Time
22-07-2005, 19:28
i was sort of hoping to recruit a local bearer to carry it if i have to walk any distance :o ;) :D
Andy
let me know when you're arriving.... so I can be ten minutes behind you. :D ;)