View Full Version : Avoiding rust (again)
Andrew Middleton
13-01-2004, 10:21
Sorry to start a new thread on a topic that was recently covered. However, a slightly different question: How long can you get away with storing a carbon steel blade in a leather sheath? I ask this because I understand the need for long-term storage out of the sheath, but if you are taking a knife into the wilderness for an extended period, how long would you have to be carrying it before the leather starts to become detrimental?
gurushaun
13-01-2004, 10:31
As long as you clean it after use each time (a quick wipe is ok), keep as much crap out of the sheath as possible (see above), and give it a wipe with a mineral oil or olive oil soaked rag once or twice a week then you should be ok. Inspecting the blade at least once a day if you haven't used it also helps. This is assuming use in this country. Also if the sheath gets really wet try to dry with out the blade in it, but be careful of shrinkage, let the leather dry slowly away from direct heat.
Cheers
Shaun
I think as shaun has pointed out, there are far too many variables to give any kind of meaningful answer in terms of "how long".
... It depends!
Powderburn
13-01-2004, 18:57
I think it's more of a matter of conditions instead of time, or at least a combination of the two.
I have a Schrade Sharpfinger, which is 1095 steel. The only care it ever got was a washing the few times it gutted a deer. Other than that, it sat in the leather sheath 24/7, through the dry winters and super humid summers of Michigan. It looked brand new for years.
I had it in my "waterproof" fanny pack a couple years ago during deer season. Instead of the usual cold and snow, it was warm with soaking rains. The Sharpfinger sat in the "waterproof" pack all the while. Weeks later while cleaning out the pack, I pulled the knife out and found it had a nice surface rust. :-( It looked like the kind that a little scrubbing with steel wool and a bit of oil would take care of. Boy, was I wrong. The whole blade is pitted. :evil:
Kept in a dry leather sheath, even without oil, the knife stayed in great condition. Left in a wet leather sheath for a few weeks, it rusted and pitted.
yup, like I said - it depends!
If you want to be sure - dont leave it in a leather sheath - period. There is no time limit that someone can give you, that will guarantee no rust. If the sheath is wet and the steel unprotected, the blade can rust overnight - sometimes, even in front of your eyes!
In a bone dry sheath, with a well oiled blade, in dry conditions, you might be fine indefinately - then again, you might not.
Powderburn
13-01-2004, 20:22
If the sheath is wet and the steel unprotected, the blade can rust overnight - sometimes, even in front of your eyes!
Good point, but thankfully, most rust that pops up that quickly is minor surface rust and will come off fairly easily. There are exceptions, of course. :wink:
On a course with Ray up in scotland once it rained (as only scotland can) for several days and my knife, sheath, pants and skin were soaked - anyway I was using a woodlore knife at the time and it started to go rusty. I was horrified £xxxx of knife being attacked by rust, anyway I asked Ray and his answer was simple,
Dont worry about it, its a tool not a piece of art.
Point taken?
How many must that guy go through? :shock: :shock:
Good point though - they are just tools (or should be!)
On a course with Ray up in scotland once it rained (as only scotland can) for several days and my knife, sheath, pants and skin were soaked - anyway I was using a woodlore knife at the time and it started to go rusty. I was horrified £xxxx of knife being attacked by rust, anyway I asked Ray and his answer was simple,
Dont worry about it, its a tool not a piece of art.
Point taken?
I have never oiled my knife and lately have only got it out a couple of times a month. In the whole time I have had it which is about 3 years I have cleaned it thoroughly about 4 times. Probably every 3rd time I sharpen it I go over the whole thing with my Negara stone which cleans off the metal quite well. Sometimes it will look purple for a while, other times bright and shiny and others dirty and scruffy. It always does the job though!
Another good point here is that the staining carbon steel takes on with use actually protects the metal - moral of the story here is use the damn thing.
As tony says sharpening and cleaning the blade with the slurry should be more than enough.
I got a tip to use Linseed oil (i think it“s called that in english). Let the blade stand in the oil and then let it dry. It“s suppose to work really good.
I am waiting for mine to dry now, so I will soon see if it will work =)
... my Negara stone which cleans off the metal quite well....
:?:
I might just being stupid but what's a negara stone? :0: I did a quick google search and I couldn't find anything vaguely relevant. Is it just a sharpening stone?
Small water tone that is used with fine grit waterstones, you rub it on the bigger stone and it creates a slurry which can help with sharpening. It may be spelt wrong!
It's called a nagura stone.
Aah, see now that spelling I recognise! :-D
Small water tone that is used with fine grit waterstones
"a small water tone" is different form a large single malt tone is it?
:lol:
cheers, and
[quote="Gary"]Another good point here is that the staining carbon steel takes on with use actually protects the metal - .......
quote]
Yes.
When carbon has some rust, I spray some WD 40 on it and give it a light rub with fine steel wool just to get the surface rust off....anything else is just 'patina' :-D
Out of interest....when so called 'stainless steel' rusts (and it does given the right conditions!), the rust usualy badly pits the steel.......Carbon doesnt seem to pit so bad.
Kevin.
On a course with Ray up in scotland once it rained (as only scotland can) for several days and my knife, sheath, pants and skin were soaked - anyway I was using a woodlore knife at the time and it started to go rusty. I was horrified £xxxx of knife being attacked by rust, anyway I asked Ray and his answer was simple,
Dont worry about it, its a tool not a piece of art.
Point taken?
Fair comment, but then my old dad says if you look after your tools they'll last you a lifetime. If I'd paid £200 for a power drill, I'd take good care of that too. ;)
It's called a nagura stone.
There you go, I need to stop being lazy :rolmao:
Hello I put patine in my carbon blades with potato.
Dig the blade into a potato and left all night, take out blade in the morning and you get a nice patina.
check:
http://www.knifeforums.com//ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB62&Number=304380&Forum=All_Forums&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=304380&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=10128&daterange=0&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post304380
enjoy
So how did your damascus-patina test go?
:oops: I have been busy with others knife projects but perhaps this weekend I“ll try.
Enjoy
Is the problem with our tools that we just don't use then enough? I remember all the tools that my grandfather has (sickles, scythes, pen knives, billhook) that were all carbon steel but major rust wasn't a problem. Penknives and so on took on a sort of patina but nothing that seemed to affect performance. Nothing was oil coated jsut cleaned and sharpened after use.
Are steels of poorer quality or it it that constant use keeps the corrosion better under control? Has stainless steel changed our perception of how tools should look?
Is the problem with our tools that we just don't use then enough?
You could well be right. My Leatherman Wave has never got rusty (as you would expect) and I wear it all the time at work. It get's a lot of use as I can't be bothered to carry a tool bag round with me most of the time.
However, I have a friend that has a Wave too but he barely uses it. It started to get rust patches so he took it back and he got a new one for free.
Placing the blade in a bag with a load of mashed up tomatoes is another good way to get a working patina as well......I have never like shiny knives :-D
Does the patina protect the surface? :?:
Colin KC
14-01-2004, 14:55
Yes Adi, it does :wink:
Colin KC
14-01-2004, 14:58
only to an extent though.
Adi, the quality of steel thing is interesting. No doubt we can make far better steel today than 50 years ago - metallurgy has moved on. I'd assume this is the case for any good knife steel.
But if you look at (say) woodworking tools, plane irons made 70 odd years ago from "cast steel" are rare, expensive and prized for being much better than the steel used in equivalent tools today.
Although this old steel does rust, it does so in an even speckled pattern. Poor new tools often show rust "veining" its way across the surface. I'm told this is to do with a less even structure within the metal.
Cheers.
MartiniDave
15-01-2004, 08:32
For mid to long term protection you can buy a gun oil called "Rangoon Oil", this was formulated for weapon storage in places like India and the colonies where higher humidity can be encountered. I've found it works well on guns and also knives. I have owned a kabar for about 15 years now, it is stored in the sheath but Rangoon oil has kept it free of rust.
Hope the above is helpful.
Dave
Andrew Middleton
15-01-2004, 08:37
Thanks everyone for answering my query and giving me some useful tips. I particularly like the attitude of "don't worry about it, it's only a tool". This goes against my nature, particularly at £200 for the knife. However, my new years resolution is to get out and use my kit, treat it with respect, but don't treat the tools as so precious. (I'm usually OK, once I've scratched something for the first time and in a couple of years time I'll wonder what I was so worried about.)