View Full Version : Why?
wentworth
08-07-2005, 12:55
Hi all,
I've been perusing some other forums, including outdoor survival forum (wonder if they have an indoor survival one?) and have noticed a tendency towards really big knives.
They're generally said to be used for 'camp chores', but I'm having difficulty imagining how camping could require a 9 inch blade. Hmmm. I've personally done very well with my Opinels, which draw nothing near that size.
Am I missing something? Maybe all my camp trips have been far less adventurous than some of these fellows experience.
And on a different note, I'm trying to order a Fallkniven F1 for a reasonable price, and have found the only place willing to ship to Australia (for what I'm willing to pay) is Bayou Lafourche Knife Works. Has anyone dealt with this company? I'm having nervous twitches with all this talk of credit card internet fraud stuff...
Appologies for the unconnected and long winded questions1
weekend_warrior
08-07-2005, 13:08
Have you tried this mob?
The Finer Edge
4 Quinn Court
Rowville 3178
AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61 3 9752 9736
Fax: +61 3 9752 9912
E-mail: info@thefineredge.net
They're the main Fallkniven guys in Oz..
(no connection to me, etc..etc...)
Hi all,
I've been perusing some other forums, including outdoor survival forum (wonder if they have an indoor survival one?) and have noticed a tendency towards really big knives.
They're generally said to be used for 'camp chores', but I'm having difficulty imagining how camping could require a 9 inch blade. Hmmm. I've personally done very well with my Opinels, which draw nothing near that size.
Am I missing something? Maybe all my camp trips have been far less adventurous than some of these fellows experience.
Without denying that there may be times a 9 inch blade would be useful (though no situations come to mind) may I suggest that the difference between you and some of those who recommend giganti-knives is that you aren't searching for an excuse to carry a big knife.
There's similar 'reasoning' behind the necessity to buy lots of firearms expressed by some survivalist writers. I could make a suggestion as to the motivation to get more and bigger but this is a family forum...
Buckshot
08-07-2005, 13:14
Isn't the camp chores bit the stuff we'd use an axe for?
If you've got an axe (or perhaps even a saw) then you don't really need a large knife do you?
Or perhaps you've been out where there isn't a need for a big knife.
Cheers
Mark
Large knives have a place, generally places like the jungle require them (machete or parang), but you can normally get by anywhere else with an axe and or a saw and a 3 or 4 inch blade.
I have bigger blades myself, but they virtually never get used for bushcraft as the enviroment here does not lend itself to thier use and thier size makes them unweildy for most work.
Wentworth,my dear chap,
I have been a collector and user of many kinds of sharp objects over the years,and a good solid 7to 9 inch blade certainly has its place,where bush craft is concerned.Having said that the times I did have such heavy duty equipment,I was in Peruvian jungle assisting in the excavation of a 4000 year old temple that had been swallowed by the afore mentioned jungle,many,many miles from any type of civilisation,and although I may giggle with child like glee,when tending my collection,I must agree that a good solid 3 to 4inch blade and an axe are all any sensible bushcraft enthusiast realy needs for even the most difficult tasks while camping,to my mind anything larger these people carry means they have somthing to prove and should best be avoided.
I hope you didn`t mind my sticking my oar in.
Tigger
Hiya,
As someone that grew up through the 80's, it was very easy to be seduced by the huge "Rambo" knives that every survivalist used. Things then returned to some normality and 3-4" blades became the norm accompanied by an axe for heavier tasks.
On my trip to Sweden, I was introduced to a man that lived the bushcraft life all of his life.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/shinobi1/DSC00132_resize.jpg
Whilst he was very happy to use an axe (and extremely proficient with it too,) for most tasks around the camp he would reach for his Sami knife, commonly known as a leuku.
He would happily use this for the most delicate of tasks as well as chopping tasks. it perfectly covered the middle ground without being a compromise. I seem to remember that Gary has even whittled a spoon using a Sami knife. Try doing that with an axe. :p
There is a big difference between the skillfull use of a large blade and the aforementioned Rambo knives. Mainly in the attitude of the user!!!
Axes are very useful, but are awkward to use as a blade for smaller tasks. Also, having the cutting edge forward of the mass as well as the momentum caused by the heavier weight means that there is an increased risk of accidents (I know from experience!!)
Smaller knifes have a variety of uses around the campfire, so are a definite piece of anyones kit.
What you use for the larger tasks is down to personal preference. Horses for courses. ;)
Martin
bambodoggy
08-07-2005, 14:06
My usual knife for bushcraft is an Allan Blade PackPal...it's very small for a fixed blade and works perfectly for me.... for larger tasks I use my axe...
However, I am also a very big fan of the MoD knife and it's a biggun!lol I can do fine tasks with it if needs be and also heavier chopping tasks... While in Sweden I felled the same size trees with it that others used a GB SFA for and it was fine.
I like that it's big and solid and that no matter what I use it for I cannot seem to break it.
Although the MoD is massive I don't think it is a very aggressive looking knife as it's fairly well rounded.
I'm not a fan of other "big knives" and certainly not the large "Bowie" type blades I think you're asking about.
Works for me anyway :D
Bam.
However, I am also a very big fan of the MoD knife and it's a biggun!lol I can do fine tasks with it if needs be and also heavier chopping tasks... While in Sweden I felled the same size trees with it that others used a GB SFA for and it was fine.Bam.
Bam, I still have an MOD and the original Wilkinson Sword version, they are large and capable knives and used in the correct enviroment they are a superb tool and yes you can accomplish a lot with them :D , but I just find that I do not use them as much now because the axe I have is very sharp and has very good edge retention (better than the MOD and equally as good if not better than the WS).
Due to the long lever on the handle of an axe it takes a lot less effort for me to cut through things with it as the axe does the work (now where's that a quote from :rolleyes:).
Likewise because of the edge retention I find it lower maintanence than the MOD :)
Having said that I am still a fan of them because they have a place and when used in that place they are the best tool for the job which is why the design is still going (ask anyone that has used them in the military as I and probably yourself have). :)
bambodoggy
08-07-2005, 14:24
Leon.... couldn't agree more Mate :D
(as I said, I use the packpal and axe combo most often)
Povarian
08-07-2005, 16:03
Am I missing something?Excess testosterone? :D
I use a big sami knife mostly because I can do so much more with it then with an axe and a sami knife does not weigh much and it´s always easy to reach. But I see my big knife more as a tool that can be used for so much more then cutting and chopping. I also carry a small knife but that is more for fine work or prepairing food.
There are a lot of big knives out there and I think they are often wrong contructued with too thick blades and they often weigh too much.
Paganwolf
08-07-2005, 16:48
some say its not how big it is its what you do with it that counts, i find having a big one and being able to use it well is much more the case, lol ;)
Messengek
08-07-2005, 16:56
And on a different note, I'm trying to order a Fallkniven F1 for a reasonable price, and have found the only place willing to ship to Australia (for what I'm willing to pay) is Bayou Lafourche Knife Works. Has anyone dealt with this company? I'm having nervous twitches with all this talk of credit card internet fraud stuff...
Messengek
08-07-2005, 17:00
And on a different note, I'm trying to order a Fallkniven F1 for a reasonable price, and have found the only place willing to ship to Australia (for what I'm willing to pay) is Bayou Lafourche Knife Works. Has anyone dealt with this company? I'm having nervous twitches with all this talk of credit card internet fraud stuff...
Living in the Netherlands myself, I have ordered knives from Bayou Lafourche Knife Works a couple of times. No problem at all. I even ordered the Fallkniven F1 there, a great knife. Until now no problems with my creditcard either.
And I dont know about Australia, but the prices you have to pay here in the Netherlands are ridiculous, so I'm almost forced to order in the USA.
I used to ask myself the same question and I used to belive that only certain styles of knife are sutable for bushcraft.
but having been fortunate enough to have seen what the Penan in the jungles of borneo can do in the way of detailed work with their parangs (17in blades) and the sami in finland with a leuku (10in blade)
I no longer question peoples choice of knife before I see what they can do with it, I still recommend certain features in a knife if somone asks my opinion, but if somone can do all there camp work to perfection with a 9in knife then sit down and carve beautiful spoons with it (as Chris claycomb often does much to my amazment) who are we to argue with there choice?
I have a San bushmans knife here in front of me, it has a small trangular handle with a partial tang and a double edged dagger blade which is barely a millimeter thick.
i would have said its the worst bushcraft knife imaginable, but i wouldnt want to compare my abilitys with the things the bushmen achive with such a tool
ChrisKavanaugh
08-07-2005, 19:07
Bayou Laforche will take care of you. One of your celebrity countrymen lives nearby. Because of his more or less one movie claim to fame, the poor man can't go anywhere without strangers raising dinner knives, SAKS etc and quoting "now thats a knife."
I was converted to the Sami knife while in Sweden just recently. When I saw what could be done with it in skilled hands I was amazed.
Guess what I bought myself from Attleborough's :rolleyes: yeah you got it right a 9 inch Sami Knife :D
I set myself a task, make a fire using only the knife, a firesteel and 6 inch diameter 11 inch long birch log. First I peeled the bark off the log and stuck it in my pocket for later on. Next I split the in half using the knife and a batton, then split it in to smaller bits. The small bits I made into feather sticks, the Sami Knife makes the best feather sticks I've ever seen. Next it was just a case of making a ball of the bark and arranging the feathersticks over the top.
Using the back of the knife and the fire steel I through a load of sparks on to the bark and it caught first time :D
I am very impressed with the knife, it goes from splitting logs to shaving really fine feathersticks, a top piece of kit. I would recomend them to anyone.
The small bits I made into feather sticks, the Sami Knife makes the best feather sticks I've ever seen. .
Yeah, it does doesn't it mate. I have real trouble making feathersticks with my usual knife, but as soon as I use the sami knife, I get the nicest curls possible.
Oh yeah, the sparks are a lot better as well.
Welcome to the club mate!! ;)
Martin
Paganwolf
08-07-2005, 20:30
I i would have said its the worst bushcraft knife imaginable, but i wouldnt want to compare my abilitys with the things the bushmen achive with such a tool
A craftsman uses a too but also uses skill, forsite and initiative this is something that the bushmen excell in as rescourses and calories are precious to them and waste is not in their vocabulary, so that being said is their such a thing as a "good or bad bushcraft knife?" just because its not in the shape we percieve to be a good bushcraft knife doesnt mean its not a sharp and handy blade, true words spoken Stuart.
swamp donkey
08-07-2005, 23:51
I happened to see a recording of Geldolfs Africa tonight. The Hadza chaps he was with had the roughest knife Ive seen in a long while , looked about 9/12 inches .they where making arrows with it but most interestingly they used the handle for the hearth for fire making !
Bushcraft is such a broad endeavor that I think you could find a use for just about any knife style out there for a particular task. And you can make a big knife do small knife tasks and a small knife do big knife tasks, when you have to. Generally, I try to carry the knife that will work for me for what I have planned ahead. I find a good saw and axe essential for winter camping. I like machetes for saplings. I like thin-bladed flat or hollow ground knives for the camp kitchen and butchering. I like a good woodlore/mora style knife for woodcraft. There is no perfect knife for everything. When push comes to shove, you do what you got to do with the tools you have. I generally don't carry a big chopper on my hip because they are just too heavy to lug around all day when you are afield with gun and ammo. I have to admit, though, leuku's like the Stromeng 9" is a lot of knife for not a lot of weight and I enjoy carrying it. But if I have a lot of sapling work to do, I'm still gonna grab the machete or parang and leave the "big knife" at home. And I will always have a small belt knife on my hip, one way or the other and a folder in the pocket. It won't be a woodlore when I'm hunting small game and it won't be a hunter-style knife when I'm backpacking. It always depends on the plan ahead for me. You can use a knife like an adjustable wrench but a good mechanic rarely uses his adjustable wrench, usually preferring to pick one fitted perfectly to the task when he has his tool box handy. ;)
Graham_S
09-07-2005, 19:14
i've got a knivsmed stromeng 9" and it's my favorite knive for carving spoons despite it's size it is a very useable knife.
When running courses in Sweden or visits to the mountains in Norway the Sami knife (mines the 9" version) is a remarkable tool and perfect for those enviroments.
Next year on the Oz course while I think a sami knifwe would be ore than up to the task I will likely carry a golok.
In the uk I carry my BFK and a tomahawk and a folding saw because these are most pertinant to a temperate zone.
In other words knives like hats or underwear have evolved for different enviroments and a wise bushcraft uses the correct tool for the job! That said as I have pointed out in the past the best tool is the one you have on you at the time -- so learn to be a master of all rather than precious about one! In many culters the native peoples make their own knives from whats available and while I am sure they all have a design in mind I am equally sure they make the best they can with what they have and then learn to use it to its maximum.
They dont cover lack of knowledge with kit they cover lack of kit with ability and knowledge!
I like large knives and they can be very versatile as demostrated by many native peoples from around the world that live by gathering, hunting and fishing as their daily existence. I think one of the problems with big knives is they tend to be too thick and heavy because they are modelled after bowie knives and produced for collectors or occasional users. A long knife with a fairly thin blade is much lighter to carry, cuts better and much easier to manipulate for delicate tasks and have some chopping power due to its length. Most native people form what I have seen on TV use long thin knives for everything from cutting wood to eating with.
wentworth
10-07-2005, 09:21
Hi all,
thanks for all the responses. I can see that there are times when a big thin blade such as some have mentioned would be very useful. But not for me. I live in Blue Mountains National Park, where minimal impact camping is essential, thus a huge blade would be less at home. Thus for the more environmentally friendly tasks such as spoon carving and featherstick making etc, a smaller blade suits me well.
My original question was about the usefulness of a 9 inch blade (bowie) AND a hatchet AND a slipjoint. It seemed to me that the hatchet made the large knife superfluous- just more weight to carry. BTW, I am talking about for overnighters, which were mentioned in the forums I encountered.
.....In other words knives like hats or underwear have evolved for different enviroments and a wise bushcraft uses the correct tool for the job! That said as I have pointed out in the past the best tool is the one you have on you at the time -- so learn to be a master of all rather than precious about one! In many cultures the native peoples make their own knives from whats available and while I am sure they all have a design in mind I am equally sure they make the best they can with what they have and then learn to use it to its maximum.
They dont cover lack of knowledge with kit they cover lack of kit with ability and knowledge!
Beautifully said Bam; bears repeating :)
Cheers,
Toddy
They dont cover lack of knowledge with kit they cover lack of kit with ability and knowledge!
Where have I heard this before ;)
Where have I heard this before ;)
I WONDER?
MY SIGNATURE MAYBE? LOL
I WONDER?
MY SIGNATURE MAYBE? LOL
There too, it´s spreading.... :D
There too, it´s spreading.... :D
But what a good thing to spread eh mate - a little scandinavian wisedom!
Oh the wood arrived btw - cheers - pm me with news on the other stuff!! ;)
OldJimbo
10-07-2005, 21:11
Hi all,
thanks for all the responses. I can see that there are times when a big thin blade such as some have mentioned would be very useful. But not for me. I live in Blue Mountains National Park, where minimal impact camping is essential, thus a huge blade would be less at home. Thus for the more environmentally friendly tasks such as spoon carving and featherstick making etc, a smaller blade suits me well.
My original question was about the usefulness of a 9 inch blade (bowie) AND a hatchet AND a slipjoint. It seemed to me that the hatchet made the large knife superfluous- just more weight to carry. BTW, I am talking about for overnighters, which were mentioned in the forums I encountered.
I don't believe that your question has been answered - so I'll give it a try.
I don't see much use for a large knife AND hatchet for most people in low impact camping. You'd either carry a well set up hatchet or suitable knife - or choose to carry neither. Obviously if you're using a tent and stove, there's normally little that a chopping blade is useful for. If you switch the Opinel for an equally light Mora, then you can use that with a baton to cut any wood you want to make spoons from. Or you might find a light folding saw to be more useful in initial cutting/shaping wood.
Some of us live in areas of pretty extreme conditions, though, and that's where the focus on chopping tools comes from. Around here, the times when a fire is most needed are the times when it is toughest to find any dry wood. So I'd feel foolish going for a walk without something like a tiny hatchet or small golok along. You, on the other hand might feel foolish in your conditions for carrying even the extra 10oz weight.
Squidders
10-07-2005, 21:32
Am I missing something?
I think so... And I think it's because you're coming at it from a bushcraft standpoint, as are we all, not a survival one.
If your ship got wrecked and you could have one blade with you... what would you have? something you could hack with, carve with and prepare food with or one that you couldn't hack with but would carve really well and prepare food reasonably well with?
If I could have one knife to be used to SURVIVE in any environment, it'd be a chuffing big one. something I could cut a tree down with and then cut a yak in half and even at worst, defend myself with.
But, I'm a bushcrafter, so I'll stick with my GB SFA / Folding saw / Gene Ingram or BFK (when I get my sticky mitts on it). I'm not out to survive, i'm out to thrive and hopefully never get in to a true survival stuation.
One blade to survive with? I'd be hard pressed to choose between my smallish Leku (just under 6") and my Staffie bill hook but probably I'd go with the billhook. Not a massive blade by any standard, a couple of inches shorter than a bit of A4 paper, but plenty of power for any task with the added finess of the back blade. For general bushcrafting I think either one of those 2 plus a puukko would cover prety much anything in temerate european or simila climes. Like a machete is the ideal tool for jungle, the bill hook and leku are the perfect tooks for their home environments.
David
but having been fortunate enough to have seen what the Penan in the jungles of borneo can do in the way of detailed work with their parangs (17in blades) and the sami in finland with a leuku (10in blade)
I no longer question peoples choice of knife before I see what they can do with it, I still recommend certain features in a knife if somone asks my opinion, but if somone can do all there camp work to perfection with a 9in knife then sit down and carve beautiful spoons with it (as Chris claycomb often does much to my amazment) who are we to argue with there choice?
I have a San bushmans knife here in front of me, it has a small trangular handle with a partial tang and a double edged dagger blade which is barely a millimeter thick.
my experiences mirror stuart's on this one.
in the end, it doesn't matter wether your knife is big or small, or what shape it is. it does help if it's sharp. a persons skill level is not defined by their knife. but by the end result of their work.
cheers, and.
zackerty
11-07-2005, 02:02
"...in the end, it doesn't matter wether your knife is big or small, or what shape it is. it does help if it's sharp. a persons skill level is not defined by their knife. but by the end result of their work."...
I have seen a Doctor skin a giraffe with a handfull of straight scalpel blades...
"...in the end, it doesn't matter wether your knife is big or small, or what shape it is. it does help if it's sharp. a persons skill level is not defined by their knife. but by the end result of their work."...
I have seen a Doctor skin a giraffe with a handfull of straight scalpel blades...
Zack I skinned a deer with the little blade on a original leatherman and thats what 2 and a bit inches long - size doesnt matter when skinning - indeed we should use our knife as little as possible to do this anyway!
Well...
Why would you carry a hatchet ?
I carry a big blade both for survival and bushcraft teaching, mainly because it can chop and split wood for the fire. Many woods are dry inside and wet outside. They burn better once split. A big knife will also do any task I throw at it, from destroying an old half-rotten pine stump to get to it's fatwood core to making traps or dicing wild carrots to prying wood apart, etc.
I carry a Swamp Rat Camp Tramp. I chose this blade not for the company's political opinions (I'm not a survivalist, I'm more like the left-wing earth mother type, man... :)) , but because it's the right tool for my needs, period.
That big blade has less raw chopping power than a hatchet, but it's more versatile. I see it as a de-escalation from the hatchet, not just a "bigger knife".
Along with that, I always carry a smaller fixed blade, often a F1 or a Mora of some sort.
Cheers,
David
BlueTrain
13-07-2005, 12:35
Having just found this forum and registered, I wonder if it is a good idea to make my first post on this particular thread since my opinions far outweigh my experiences. But with that warning, here goes.
Most and practically all of my experiences are in the Applachian and Blue Ridge mountains of Virginia and West Virginia. I even lived for a time in a log house and there are a surprising number of log houses within thirty miles of the White House. But that is another topic.
You need an ax to build a log house. A large knife won't do but for most everything else, it will. In fact, I'll even go out on a limb and suggest that in some cases, a large knife is even better than an ax or hatchet, at least if you include machetes and such like. But I am speaking of what you would call homesteading and general backwoods living and for that matter, even suburban living in Virginia. There are a lot of cutting chores that a large knife does perfectly well at that an ax is downright clumsy at, such as clearing brush and cutting a path. After all, it is a sub-tropical climate where I live and things grow like crazy in the summer. Yet I have not been that satisified with a hardware store machete of the Collins variety. I have an issue Golok that was inexplicably cut down by about three inches but still remains a superior tool, and it is just a tool, on account of its thicker and therefore stiffer blade.
I somehow manage otherwise when I am in the woods with a large folding Buck knife or alternatively a small fixed blade knife of one sort or another.
There are two other related issues that I also want to mention. One is cost.
A lot of large Bowie-type knives are unreasonably expensive, at least for me. I don't believe they work any better and you may be forced to pay too much attention to them to protect your investment.
Another thing was suggested by another respondent here already and that is putting effort into avoiding the need in the first place, at least for more expensive knives. All the same, that may be easier said than done!
Firstly welcome blue train.
A lot of what you say is true and I think the choice of the tool in use is dictated by the enviroment where you live/are using it and the purpose for which you intend on using it for. It also has a lot to do with social climate and the skill with which a person uses a tool, we have people here who are HUGE fans of billhooks, but it must be said that the main person for billhook use on here is a skilled user of this tool and as an artisan he should be respected in its use :D
BlueTrain
13-07-2005, 14:17
It occurs to me that there is a dramatic difference in the knives and other implements chosen by those who GO to the woods for whatever reason, be it hunting, exploring, hiding out or whatnot, and those who live in the woods and call it home. I am thinking here mainly of those who were mentioned earlier as "natives" (another word may have been used-I don't care for it myself) who were using light and thin knives. I suspect that a normal European or American (All of North and South America) would use only the most casual of tools around the house and would treat his knives, axes, billhooks, grubbing hoes, sythes and all that other stuff about like he treats his hammers, though most would keep them reasonably sharp and certainly bring them inside at night.
Although there are a couple of stores around here that sell the Granfors axes, no one I know at home would dream of spending that much on an ax. In fact, where I grew up, in town, a few people still used wood burning stoves and they mostly left their double bitted axes at the wood pile. Many people in the country still used wood burning stoves but more used coal. I am a little surprised that I have been considering the purchase of a double bit ax myself and perhaps a heavy duty crosscut saw. The same store that carries (at least one) Granfors axes has a heavy duty, Austrian made crosscut for under $50 and a decent American made double bit ax is about $35. Even so, I am thinking twice about spending that much money. So far, I am getting buy on a Swedish made bow saw that I bought in 1968 (the same year I bought a Land Rover 88) and a Hudson's Bay pattern camping ax. If you keep the ax sharp you can cut through an 18-inch tree just about as fast as you can with a larger ax but it takes more effort. But anyway, my hands aren't used to doing work like that.
It would be very interesting to hear what someone from Malasia or Borneo would have to say about their knives. Do you suppose they use axes, too?
What about tomahawks? I've never used one, but would like to find a decent tomahawk to have a go on. Somebody somewhere mentioned the benefits of a 'hawk being that the handle can be taken off leaving a hand held blade, and that the handle can be replaced easily if it broke whilst on a trip with a branch cut and whittled to shape. If I remember correctly, it was somebody on BB who made two 'hawks from a motorbike chain. Ring any bells anyone?
Can anyone make a more informed response to the benefits of the 'hawk, and whether it is better than the GB axes, also a good supplier of the 'hawk.
Cheers
Spamel
PS. Just read the thread from start to finish, some very good points. I have to agree with Bambodoggy, The MoD crowbar is grrrrrrrrrreat!
Spamel, the Tomahawk "Dakota" made by Gränsfors Bruks can be seen here www.fine-tools.com/G307361.htm
What about tomahawks? I've never used one, but would like to find a decent tomahawk to have a go on. Somebody somewhere mentioned the benefits of a 'hawk being that the handle can be taken off leaving a hand held blade, and that the handle can be replaced easily if it broke whilst on a trip with a branch cut and whittled to shape. If I remember correctly, it was somebody on BB who made two 'hawks from a motorbike chain. Ring any bells anyone?
Can anyone make a more informed response to the benefits of the 'hawk, and whether it is better than the GB axes, also a good supplier of the 'hawk.
Cheers
Spamel
PS. Just read the thread from start to finish, some very good points. I have to agree with Bambodoggy, The MoD crowbar is grrrrrrrrrreat!
Spam I have a hawk made by GB! These are expensive as they are made to order but worth every penny IMO - I can do with it all I can do with a GB SFA but it is a little lighter a lot more flexible in its uses as you have already pointed out and much more aesthetically pleasing to use and hold!
I still like my Leukku (sami knife) as a camp knife and in combo with the BFK this pair can do pretty much anything I want of them - but lately I am more and more drawn to having to choose which one I carry with my BFK - hawk or leukku, decisions decisions!!
Cold steel appearently do a good one (hawk) but I ordered one some time ago and it never arrived, when I questioned them they didnt seem interested in dealing with uk buyers and as they hadnt taken my money from my account I just cancelled the order and got the GB.
It would be very interesting to hear what someone from Malasia or Borneo would have to say about their knives. Do you suppose they use axes, too?
the various ethnic groups living in borneo do not use axes, An axe has very little practical value in a tropical forest.
all heavy work is done with a parang:
http://takumedia.net/tribis/tan.jpg
I think the conclusion of this thread can be surmised in three statements.
1. Different tools are suitable for different jobs and environments, no one tool works everywhere.
2. peoples opinions and preferences for tools vary, what a person accomplishes with their tool is more important than what tool they use.
3. That whilst a 4 inch long carbon steel fixed blade is what the majority of people would recommend to someone as their first knife for a temperate climate, what they choose to use there after is up to them.
3. That whilst a 4 inch long carbon steel fixed blade is what the majority of people would recommend to someone as their first knife for a temperate climate, what they choose to use there after is up to them.
I agree with your other summary statements Stu, but for this I would say for NO3,
A 3 - 4 inch knife with a good carbon steel blade of the correct temper is what the majority of people would recommend to someone as their first training knife but also for any climate or further 'training/uses'. Such a knife should also form the foundation of any cutting tool combination used in almost any world climate zone as such a knife will make camp chores and other small scale tasks easier and safer while the large camp tool (axe - machete - parang - bow saw ect) is a safe and handy tool for larger heavier work. Such a combination should thus be formed as appropriate to the local terrian and tool preference - i.e see what the locals use as they wil be the best judges of what the best large tool is for there world.
When in Rome ................
BorderReiver
15-07-2005, 11:20
I agree with your other summary statements Stu, but for this I would say for NO3,
When in Rome ................
and.... Whatever lights your candle. :)
If you enjoy using it and it's effective in your hands,end of story. ;)
Cold steel appearently do a good one (hawk) but I ordered one some time ago and it never arrived, when I questioned them they didnt seem interested in dealing with uk buyers and as they hadnt taken my money from my account I just cancelled the order and got the GB.
I've got a Cold Steel "Trail Hawk".
They are cast(by the looks of them) in Taiwan and don't come within yelling distance of GB quality, more on a par with a Draper or Rolson hatchet.
Handle is reasonable tho' and the thing cuts OK now reprofiled, metal a bit soft, however.
Was only 15 quid, though :D :D
Jim.
the various ethnic groups living in borneo do not use axes, An axe has very little practical value in a tropical forest.
all heavy work is done with a parang:
http://takumedia.net/tribis/tan.jpg
Ahem! Not quite. You are correctly describing the present but not the past.
While the Penan who are nomadic and semi nomadic and who live in the forests do not seem to use axes, the same cannot be said for the Orang Ulu - the Kayans, Kenyah and so on.
Being riverine peoples and long house dwellers they know and used the ax. The huge long canoes and long houses were made with hardwoods felled by an axe and shaped with an adze. Today in older longhouses you can see the adze and occassionally axe marks.
The decline of the axe is due to logging and the introduction of the chainsaw and the availbility of sawn timber, plywood and chip board for boats and longhouse floors. Cement is replacing wooden pillars. The same result as replacing a log cabin with plywood and corrugated iron.
A sad state of affairs. Lying on a longhouse floor and running your hand and eye along the texture of the wood is a great experience.
falling rain
24-07-2006, 14:53
I was converted to the Sami knife while in Sweden just recently. When I saw what could be done with it in skilled hands I was amazed.
Guess what I bought myself from Attleborough's :rolleyes: yeah you got it right a 9 inch Sami Knife :D
I set myself a task, make a fire using only the knife, a firesteel and 6 inch diameter 11 inch long birch log. First I peeled the bark off the log and stuck it in my pocket for later on. Next I split the in half using the knife and a batton, then split it in to smaller bits. The small bits I made into feather sticks, the Sami Knife makes the best feather sticks I've ever seen. Next it was just a case of making a ball of the bark and arranging the feathersticks over the top.
Using the back of the knife and the fire steel I through a load of sparks on to the bark and it caught first time :D
I am very impressed with the knife, it goes from splitting logs to shaving really fine feathersticks, a top piece of kit. I would recomend them to anyone.
Another fan over here......... My son gave me a Sami knife (9") from attleborough for Christmas 2004 and I've used it for splitting billets, feather sticks, gutting fish prepping vegetables, cutting up meat , splitting and shaving wood. It sharpens well and good sparks from the firesteel with it too. Excellent general purpose tool. :headbang:
I've read an article in a Tactical Knives magazine on Hudson Bay camp knives. These are typically 9 inch blades.
Part of there usefulness was attached to the buffalo hunters (big animal=big knife?).
It states however that their main use was as a cleaver (in the style of a chinese chef's cleaver prehaps)
Quotes on the usage (from Tactical Knives November 2005, pp19-22, Dan Shechtman)
"Here is a knife made to order for the hunter or cook responsible for breaking out chunks of carcasses of the game animals to be served up to the trappers"
"The Edmonton hunters always use large heavy knives for the purpose of cutting through branches when traversing dense fir woods that cover a great part of that country; some of them use extremely heavy ones, half knife, half axe - like a narrow sort of butchers cleaver with a point instead of a squared end"
(on butchering buffalo) "The half breed goes through this whole process with a large and very heavy knife lika a narrow pointed cleaver which is also used for cutting wood and performing the offices of a hatchet"
An example can be seen here (http://www.idahoknifeworks.com/repro.htm)
you are of course right BOD, I stand corrected.
those adzed longhouse floors are so tactile, gently rippled marks rounded smooth by the passage of bare feet
I've thought a bit more about this and I've come to a conclusion that when camp chores are mentioned a large part of it is cooking for a number of people.
If you watch any chef you'll see them using a knife about 10" long most of the time and as the knife does't need to be portable then this is probably chosen simply for its abilities.
pierre girard
30-07-2006, 10:20
In the fall, towards hunting season, we start to see a lot of people wearing really large knives. It is a good way to tell the city people apart from those who live here.
When I was in the Army I carried a Randall #1 with a 7in blade or a Ka-Bar with a 7in blade. Both pretty handy for field work but I mainly looked at them as weapons first and camp chore knives as a secondary task. Most of my actual knife work was done with a SAK Farmer model!
I find a 4 to 5 in blade is all I ever need for normal bushcraft, my favorite is the Stewart Marsh 11CM Bushcraft knife. Anything over 5 inches is way too much, unless of course, you need a knife as a weapon.
Jungles require a good machete, 14in or more. A good stainless knife is also handy, something like a Mora, expendable. Often indigenous peoples take a liking to bladed tools and often they make good gifts or trade items. Never carry an expensive blade to a third-world country, unless you are willing to leave it behind!
As for Rambo, well I am sure he retired to his motorcoach between movie takes and did fine with that 9+ inch knife! From my perspective, they weigh too much, too hard to carry and too hard to do fine cutting with! Just my preferences:)
Cheers!
bambodoggy
31-07-2006, 12:24
In the fall, towards hunting season, we start to see a lot of people wearing really large knives. It is a good way to tell the city people apart from those who live here.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: That made me giggle! lol :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: