View Full Version : Secrets of the hand drill - revealed
Jeff Wagner
03-07-2005, 02:55
Would anyone be interested in learning how to make fire by hand drill using materials from your local lumber supply? I recall that JC has already mastered the hand drill with a native Australian spindle. You may be very surprised to find how easy this method can be when using the right materials. That feeling of satisfaction that comes from making fire without matches grows in initensity with the more primitive methods.The more primitive the set up and the fewer the components used, the greater the thrill. My best time to coal formation by hand drill so far is 12 seconds - not a world record, but a great sense of accomplishment none the less. I think I can help you do the same.
I am sure many people on here including myself would be very intrested, tell us more
Justin Time
03-07-2005, 09:39
I'm up for it!
Ogri the trog
03-07-2005, 12:35
Oh go on then.
Jeff, having recently, ahem mastered! the fire piston (can I really say that here without being taken too seriously), my appetite has been whetted for this type of thing
Ogri the trog
You can certainly count me in! Maybe a more primitive method might suit my primitive^H^H^H^H^H^H^H basic skills! ;-P
It would be fantastic if you could post a little tutorial here :D
Ed
Jeff Wagner
03-07-2005, 13:31
I will make no claims of expertise, however I have managed to succeed about 75 times and I can share my observations and methods. First off, as with the bow drill, wood selection is critical and perhaps even more so. I find performance variations even among spindles of the same wood type, so when you find one that works well, hang on to it.
Low density,straightness and stiffness appear to be the most important qualities. A shaft that wobbles or is too flexible will reduce the amount of downward force one is able to apply.
More in a bit as I need to take some photos for explanation purposes. In the mean time, please let me know if you have cedar boards available at your local lumber supply house.
bushman762
03-07-2005, 13:42
After having spent a FULL day at this crack...from beginning to end...and nothing only burnt dust to show for it...I sure would like to know were I went wrong.
By the way, the burnt dust...I could never in my numerous attempts get it to smoulder.
Best Regards,
:)
Ogri the trog
03-07-2005, 18:36
Come off it Jeff,
You claim to be no expert yet have succeeded 75 times. I recon if you've done it once you're at the point of offering advice, 75 times and you can consider yourself the universe guru.
Did you use the arrow shaft on the left of your photo, I have plenty of Port Orford Cedar shafts from arrows, don't yet know about the boards though.
Thanks so far
Ogri the trog
Jeff Wagner
03-07-2005, 19:33
:( The arrow is a hand milled shaft of white ash and while it provided a ready made spindle, the working portion that made the coal is on the other end of the detachable socket.
My next recommendation is to not attempt to make a coal at first at all. Simply practice drilling holes for a few days. Short practice sessions which condition the hands and muscles. When you can manage 7 passes down the spindle without raising blisters you're ready for a go. But I am getting ahead of myself. I have not yet covered the spindle making.
First - go buy a small cedar board, a 3/8 inch ramin dowel about 30 inches long and a 1 inch ramin dowel. Total investment here should be about $5.
Split an edge from the cedar board so as to make a square - if the board is 3/4 inch thick spilt it 3/4 inch from the edge. Now take your knife and whittle that square into a round shaft about 3/8 inch in diameter and about 2 inches long. Cut a 2 inch piece from the larger dowel and drill it through its length with a 3/8 inch bit. This will become your socket. Insert the smaller ramin dowel in one end of the socket and the cedar plug you just whittled into the other end. You now have a fire spindle. Now take the cedar board and split it length wise so as to make a hearth board about 3/8 inch thick. You now have all the pieces you need to make a coal by hand drill.
More to follow - I'm in the midst of hanging a new door.... :(
Jeff Wagner
04-07-2005, 21:58
That opening frown above was unintentional - not sure how that got there.
I have found that with good materials I can expect to see smoke during the first pass down the spin. I have also noticed that I can tell a good spindle and hearth set by the way they feel and sound when pressed against each other and the spindle twisted back and forth a few times. A good set will bind and sqeak. Knowing this saves a good deal of time and wasted effort breaking in a combination that wont work well.
I have not tried the following on hoof fungus however it is not terrbly difficult to get a coal to form in tinder fungus. Please note that the usuual notch is not necessary in fungus. The coal forms right in the drill hole.
Cypher2001
05-07-2005, 04:15
Forgive me, I am new here but I'm very interested in the process your are using to completing the setup. I guess your description isnt painting the picture I need.
Is it possible to take step by step pictures of the process? Any additional help you can give would be GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks
Jeff Wagner
05-07-2005, 12:52
What is it you wish to see? The spindle made from store bought parts?
maverick
05-07-2005, 13:35
I cannot answer for Cypher200, but I think that is what we all want to see, a picture tutorial from construction through to flame.
anyone else agree?
Buckshot
05-07-2005, 13:39
Exactly, from intial purchase onwards would be great :)
Cheers
Mark
weekend_warrior
05-07-2005, 14:02
I cannot answer for Cypher200, but I think that is what we all want to see, a picture tutorial from construction through to flame.
anyone else agree?
Aye! *hand raised*
Jeff Wagner
05-07-2005, 14:49
Step1- Split out the square from the cedar board.
Step2 - Split off the corners to make a rough octagon.
Step 3 - Split the piece that will become the hearthboard to approximately 3/8 inches thickness.
Great stuff Jeff! I'm gonna give this setup a try. I'm curious though about how well the upper and lower shaft fit in the joint. Do they have a tendency to slip in the joining piece? Do you glue the upper shaft in or just depend on a friction fit?
Jeff Wagner
05-07-2005, 17:58
....any questions so far please raise a hand...
Step 4 - using your knife whittle the octagon to make a round plug about 10mm in diameter. I like to taper the end that will be inserted into to the collar.
Step 5 - I have taken a small liberty here as I dont have any ramin dowels available at the moment. I have therefore used a fancier collar / spindle combination that was already on hand - but I think you will grasp the idea.
Step 6 - form a depression in the hearth board. I like to use a flint chip for this.
Step 7 - Make your initial burn-in as you would with a bow drill.
Cypher2001
05-07-2005, 21:02
Exactly what I was looking for..
Thank you much!
Jeff Wagner
05-07-2005, 22:09
The componennts are held by friction fit only. By tapering the holes in the socket a good snug fit can be achieved. The most siginificant aspect of this set up is this. In the wild you can find materials suitable for hand drill fire making, but they may not be long and straight. You can also find long straight shafts but which are useless for fire making. The collar concept allows you to combine the best features of the available resources to achieve the desired result. You can carry only the collar and collect the other parts as they are encountered. Or, use an arrow...:)
After I complete the photos relating to this set up, I will also show how to make it even easier with addition of thumb loops.
Where was I....
Step 8 - Cut your hearth board notch
This thread got me tempted to have a go myself, never tried before and didn't quite manage fire, but I had some success.
I used some plain DIY shed wooden dowl and ash for the hearth, socket and drill as I have some in the garden. Using hands only I managed to get the wood to start blackening before I got a blister on my left hand and had to stop. I then made a block for the top of the drill and tried using a bow to turn the drill.
Using this I managed to get smoke coming from the hearth at one point :D
I'm gonna try and give it another go tonight.
Simon.
I used some plain DIY shed wooden dowl and ash for the hearth, socket and drill as I have some in the garden. Using hands only I managed to get the wood to start blackening before I got a blister on my left hand and had to stop. I then made a block for the top of the drill and tried using a bow to turn the drill.
Simon.
You may wish to rethink the woods on this one, but very well done on getting smoke :D
The only success i have had has been with very yellow Clematis. Once the clematis has seasoned too hard then nothing.
Although i have not had much success anyway. I have tried Elder. Anyone got any other suggestions?
Jeff Wagner
13-07-2005, 13:58
If you have poplar there you might try that for the hearth board and plug. A large measure of improvement can be made with the more difficult woods by adding thumb loops to the spindle.
You may wish to rethink the woods on this one, but very well done on getting smoke :D
Thanks, I was a very chuffed person indeed!
I've just done a quick search of the site for ideas and found that some people recommend softer wood for the hearth. I've got some pine I can try and I have lots of sycamore growing near me so I'll see if I can find some of that to try as well.
Simon.
Jeff Wagner
13-07-2005, 18:56
Yes, the softer low density woods ( higher insulation value ) are preferred. The best combination I have tried to date is a common mullein spindle on basswood. This combination has yielded a coal in as few as three passes down the spindle although is five passes is the average.
Maintain spindle / hearth board contact while repositioning the hands between passes to minimize heat loss. You should see smoke after the first pass.
Yes, the softer low density woods ( higher insulation value ) are preferred. The best combination I have tried to date is a common mullein spindle on basswood. This combination has yielded a coal in as few as three passes down the spindle although is five passes is the average.
Maintain spindle / hearth board contact while repositioning the hands between passes to minimize heat loss. You should see smoke after the first pass.
Thanks Jeff, I got smoke of a set from Namibia yesterday, but the blisters put pay to any more practice for a while, I will hav to stick to bow drill for a bit.
Basswood is of the lime family, so I'll see if I can get a hearth made of it see what sort of difference there are between the sets.
As yet no smoke seen on the first Pass :D more practice required :D
Bah! Prick the blisters, push them flat then carry on! The flap of skin re-attaches to the flesh underneath. :cool: :D
Jeff Wagner
14-07-2005, 18:58
I made a video clip this past spring that shows the hand drill method using the mullein / basswood combination. If memory serves it took 6 passes and about 25 seconds to get a coal. I would be happy to donate this if there is a way to make it viewable.
Jeff Wagner
24-07-2005, 14:54
Thought I would share some observations while traveling throught the European countryside. In the UK I have seen thistle, goldenrod ( or a close cousin) at least one possible mullein along the motorway from Heathrow to Cambridge as well as numerous other but unidentified weeds stems of the right size and length. During a walk though Hyde Park for example, I noted a great many stalks that appeared suitable for hand drill use. I saw numerous multi seed headed mullein plants along the road sides in France and Switzerland. So, based on very limited exploration, I think you have an abundance of native stems that are worthy of further investigation. Collect them this fall at the end of the growing season. When I get back home I'll post a photo of a Hyde Park bunny enjoying his brunch among some suitable stems for your positive identification.
Well Jeff, I put your technique to the test and I'm still whipped. I have a pretty nice setup and am using a thong and I'll admit, I have not put a lot of elbow grease into it. I'm just gonna keep at it though. Right now I have a yucca drill and cedar hearth. One of these days it's gonna happen... :D
I'm curious about the top part of the drill. It probably makes sense to use a narrow drill but isn't that more applicable to a one piece drill? Wouldn't it be better in a two piece setup to have a larger diameter drill for the top? Wouldn't you get more spin for the same amount of hand motion?
Jeff Wagner
25-07-2005, 21:16
Getting proper friction from the start is critical to success. If your contact surfaces glaze over, its best to roughen then and begin again. Maintain good downward pressure from the start. As mentioned, with a good set, you should be seeing smoke at the end of the first pass. Its so much more effective to show this rather than attempting to write it. In my experience, a weed stem spindle having a diameter between 1/4 inch and 3/8 inch seems to work best. A larger diameter requires more physical exersion and yields fewer spins per stroke. Like the sprockets on your bike, a smaller diameter results in a higher number of revolutions per "pump".
With natural spindles such as mullein, I've had the best luck with those that are stiff, straight, have low density, a high percentage of pith and a length of about 30 inches.
Ah yes! I had that bass ackwards. :D What about friction though? Would you be able to exert more downward pressure with a larger diameter or is speed more important? Also, I found the small shaft wanted to slip through my hands as I moved them back and forth. What if I cut some tiny flat spots on the spindle? Would that help with friction?
Jeff Wagner
26-07-2005, 09:22
Yes, roughness helps. The mullein shafts are rough and irregular and taper from smaller to larger as you approach the tip. These things seem to aid in the application of downward pressure and speed of rotation.
I managed to crack the hand drill at the Scottish Meetup a couple of weekends ago!
I was using a holly spindle (debarked while still green, then left to dry out for a few months in the back of my cupboard) on a cedar hearth.
The two main things I can say from experience:
1) Downward pressure is everything - you need a lot of it! The next day my hands were very bruised, not from the friction, but from squeezing hard on the spindle - they were mostly sore on the pads under the little finger, where most pressure was applied. The coal dust needs to be a dark brown-black colour, if its a light brown or very powdery, you're not applying enough pressure!
2) The hearth 'depth' is also important - the hearth I was using was quite deep (from a bow drill set) and it took a lot of drilling to get enouh dust in the notch to form a good coal. Also, the next time I tried it I found that as I had already gone a reasonable depth into the hearth, a lot of energy seemed to be being wasted by the sides of the spindle rubbing against the walls of the hole.
3) Length of spindle - my spindle was very short (less than 25cm) and as such a lot of effort was wasted on moving my hands back to the top of the spindle. I can see that with a longer spindle, there would be more heat produced per 'travel' down the spindle.
4) In a hand drill, as with a bow drill, producing dust is important. With a bow drill, the dust is being produced at very hot temperatures - with a hand drill, the dust is probably slightly cooler, but when it is all trapped together in the notch, the heat being continually produced at the spindle end is being transferred to it. Almost like you are creating a powder version of charcloth then applying heat until it glows. If your notch is too large, or your board too deep, you'll have a lot of work on your hands!
Right, thats my 2 cents worth. I'm going to keep trying this fire-starting technique with different materials and different shapes/sizes of spindle hearth to confirm what I've said above. My belief is that you want a long, smooth spindle, a shallow hole to drill into, a thin hearth with a narrow notch, and a lot of downward pressure. But there may be other ways :)
If your notch is too large, or your board too deep, you'll have a lot of work on your hands!
Could you elaborate on why a board too deep is detrimental? If you widen the hole at the edges would that reduce the problem?
Could you elaborate on why a board too deep is detrimental? If you widen the hole at the edges would that reduce the problem?
Sorry - I'll rephrase that...
I was meaning the height of the surface of the hearth from the ground (i.e its thickness). By having a thick hearth, the hole where the spindle is generating heat is far away from the place where the coal dust is gathering (at the bottom of the hearth).. By having a thinner hearth, the coal in the notch would be gathering closer to the spindle hole - meaning that there would be better heat transfer and more chance of a coal forming.
Cue bad 30-second illustration:
http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/~mrichar1/images/hearthboard.jpg (http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/%7Emrichar1/images/hearthboard.jpg)
Top hearth is bad due to the heat loss as the coal dust falls - bottom hearth is better as there is less heat loss, and the coal dust is closer to the bottom of the spindle, meaning the heat leaving through the notch will pass through the accumulated dust, heating it some more...
Hope this makes sense :)
Makes lots of good sense. Thanks for clarifying. :)
Jeff Wagner
31-07-2005, 15:33
Well, I am back home at last and able to down load my photos. As mentioned previously, these weeds noticed in Kennsington Garden / Hyde Park appear very much like ones in the states called Golden Rod. The dead stems of the goldenrod can be used as a hand drill spindle. Notice the bunny in the center of the frame.
Hi Jeff Wagner, I think your photos, Particularly no 2 is Ragwort, a biannual plant. This is very very poisinous to grazing animals and produces fluffy seeds similar to thistles. These seeds will be viable for 30 years or more so should not be picked and transported. There used to be a fine for allowing Ragwort to grow on your land,this sadly (in my opinion) has lapsed. U.K. motorways embankments are covered in it and the rail companys are now just realising what a problem it is. :eek:
Concur, that is ragwort.
We had a load on one of our fisheries, we were told by the local council that we had to remove and destroy all of these plants from our land (this was about 5 years ago), not a single bit of ragwort to found on our 7 acres now, funny thing is all of the roads round here are covered in the stuff, so it would appear the council is not following it's own policies - still no change there i suppose :rolleyes:
Jeff Wagner
31-07-2005, 22:26
Well...lets see if ragwort stems will make fire. I assume there is no problem in handling dead stems? These were behind a fence and I was not able to break one to see what might be inside. Does it have a pithy core?
After having spent a FULL day at this crack...from beginning to end...and nothing only burnt dust to show for it...I sure would like to know were I went wrong.
i'll add my two pence worth...
it would be difficult to help you unless i was physically with you, but i think newcomers to hand drill fail to get an ember because:
- the wood is cut green. it is much more advantageous to use dead, slightly decomposed and weathered wood for spindle and hearthboard.
- applying too much pressure. allow the spindle to rotate smoothly. it seems disadventageous to bear down with all of one's might. last year i went to the doctor...not for an ailment, but to use her more-accurate weighing scale to do hand drill on. she humored me and i got to take the scale outside. i did hand drill eight times on it, all using Seep Willow (Baccharis viminea) on sotol (Dasylirion wheeleri): four times performing it "normally" to an ember, four times using the floating method exclusively to an ember. i averaged all the maximum bearing-weight measurements. doing hand drill normally, it took 3.5 kilos of downward pressure; using the floating technique it took 2.0 kilos. not too much is required...
- applying too little pressure. if your spindle tip and/or socket is developing a smooth, glassy sheen to it, this is an indication that either you are applying too little pressure or that the wood is too dense.
- stamina is inadequate. when a friend first showed me how to do hand drill, i spent a couple days practicing. upon retrospect, the wood i was using (California Fan Palm on itself) was the best and easiest combo this country has to offer. but my stamina wasn't developed enough to last long enough, physically or mentally, to get the ember. thousands (literally) of embers later, i can regularly get am ember within 15 seconds--sometimes under 5 seconds with the right wood.
examine the wood dust you are creating. is it like a fine powder, or does it remind you of tiny, thin sticks? if you are creating mininscule, dark splinters, you're in for a rough time. but it's not impossible:
California Fan Palm ember (Bow Drill) on rock hearthboard:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/stormbythesea/friction%20fire/bowdrill--fanpalmemberonrock.jpg
people have reported success using non-wood hearthboards such as ivory, bone and shell for bow drill. but notice the splinter-like wood char that developed on that rock (which i found on a beach near Santa Cruz, CA--part of the Tafoni Association of the Monterey Geologic formation). it took me about two full minutes to generate that ember using bow drill. to date, i haven't been aboe to get a hand drill ember on any non-wood hearthboard except fungi (Artist's Conk--([I]Ganoderma applanatum). i have used a 1.2 meter Mullein (Verbascum thapsus) hand drill spindle on an Artist's Conk funus hearthboard at presentations i give to mycological societies over here in the states, to great success...
Borneo Wildman
15-08-2005, 11:25
Just joined and got up to speed. Previously had success with bow drill (various woods) but only tried Elder hand drills with no coal and lots of blisters.
Thanks for the excellent tips...I can't help thinking that body posture and stability might make a difference too. I would be interested to see the (Jeff's) video clip and to note the way the hearth board is (held with feet) and the position of the hands in relation to the spindle. How do I find the vid clips?
Jeff Wagner
15-08-2005, 13:10
I use a bow drill position. Left foot forward securing the hearth board. Body position is important in achieving downward pressure. Unfortunately, the video clip resides in my camera at the moment. I will see if I can make one in Mpeg version and post it somewhere for viewing. Its under 20 seconds and should not require an excessive amount of memory.
Body position is important in achieving downward pressure.
very important. when you have a partner helping you, you can use the kneeling position. if you don't have a partner, you can run a flat stick from your knee to the hearthboard to keep it in place.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/stormbythesea/friction%20fire/handdrillposition--kneeling.jpg
i always do hand drill in the sitting position (because of back injuries). it greatly decreases one's mechanical advantage by not allowing as much downward pressure to be applied. due to this position, i prefer spindles around 11-13 inches long so that my arms are parallel to the ground when my hands are at the top of the spindle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/stormbythesea/friction%20fire/handdrillposition--sitting.jpg
one of my students compromised the two positions...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/stormbythesea/friction%20fire/oldladyhanddrill1.jpg
i like the idea of offering video clips, jeff. i'm going to put a short video of the hand drill floating technique on my website soon.
Jeff Wagner
15-08-2005, 16:05
Storm - If I send you the clip, would you be able to make it available for viewing?
Mom has an interesting technique...:)
Good for you with the short spindles. From the one knee position I seem to have much better luck when they are about 30 inches long. I can get good downward pressure until my hands pass beyond the horizontal plane. One of these days I will have to learn the floating technique.
Well...lets see if ragwort stems will make fire. I assume there is no problem in handling dead stems? These were behind a fence and I was not able to break one to see what might be inside. Does it have a pithy core?
Definitely ragwort, and the dead stems are still nasty stuff. The poisonous alkaloids are unaffected by drying. It is classified as an "Injurous Weed"
http://www.rag-fork.co.uk/ragwort.html
I have come across one site, however, which claims that from a scientific viewpoint, Ragwort is not really as bad as it's claimed......after all in the result of one of the papers it quotes 25% of the calves "lived" :eek:
We do have lot of Golden Rod here, but the leaf joints always stay rough. We use Fireweed/Rosebay willow herb as fire crackle to help catch a flaring flame. The unbroken stems might work very well as a fire drill as when peeled the stems are smooth. What about dried willow? There's no shortage of it.
Cheers,
Toddy
sure jeff--why don't you send it to me (storm@stoneageskills.com) in october. i'll be buying more bandwidth at that time. my website got over 4000 visits in the past six weeks, which exceeded my allowable bandwidth (by a factor of 5)--so my site will be down until the first of the month...
speaking of short spindles...there's a fellow in the southwest US who, according to acquaintences, regularly uses 4" spindles. it is said that, while he teaches hand drill, he leaves his hand drill set in a bucket of water, then removes the set and twirls up an ember...
Jeff Wagner
15-08-2005, 18:16
Nasty stuff that ragwort. I have experienced the staggering in circles symptom in the past, however it was not due to the injestion of ragwort. ;) The rossette / first year growth characteristic is consistent with horseweed and mullein - other good hand drill materials. I would put on a pair of gloves and give it a go.
I tried willow on itself only once and did not have favorable results. Perhaps a hearth board of another material would perform better. The mullein stalks over here are beginning to brown up and I should be able to go harvesting soon. It is very easy to spot from the motorway.
Jeff Wagner
15-08-2005, 18:30
speaking of short spindles...there's a fellow in the southwest US who, according to acquaintences, regularly uses 4" spindles. it is said that, while he teaches hand drill, he leaves his hand drill set in a bucket of water, then removes the set and twirls up an ember...[/QUOTE]
That would be impressive. I suppose for a short dunk, the water might not penetrate very far and a few spins would erode the wetted surface. Still, its a good trick. I do something along those lines with fire piston demos. I take a piston from a sealed bottle of water and light a fire with it in a few seconds. Due to the piston seal, the water never reaches the tinder.
As for short spindles - you know what they say...its not the size of your spindle that counts, but rather how fast you can make it spin....err.. something like that.. :confused:
I have just joined the forum. When I started out with primitive fire lighting I did a lot of bow drilling with mixed results. Later on I tried out hand drilling. It seemed impossible at first. But, after a while I found it got easier and easier. I now have quite a bit of experience of English and garden trees and shrubs and would be delighted to try and advise if anyone wants to describe their problems with getting a coal.
hey richard, would you mind putting a list on here of the different woods you've tried? maybe let us know which ones you like, which ones are more difficult to use?
Hi Storm,
Thanks for the question. The following applies to hand drills used on commercial softwood hearth board.
Easiest
Buddliea, climbing rose, mullein, elder, poplar (cottonwood), philadelphus, blackcurrent, yucca flower stem
Middling
Plane, Horse chestnut (basswood), sycamore, Lime (linden), forsythia,
Challenging
Blackberry, bullrush, hazel
Tried but without success yet
bamboo, oak, raspberry, willow
The more challenging bring out various technical variations.
I'm always willing to give oak a go if I can lay my hands on it as it has the most fragrant smoke. Bamboo is one of the least pleasant.
thank you for doing that! hey--do you know what the scientific name is for that bullrush you mention? is it a species of Scirpus? if so, does it develop a tough pith inside of the stem, perhaps similar to the sturdiness of cat tail?
i'd love to come over there and try out some of those woods that i've never heard of...
The bullrush looks (from pictures) to be a species of Typha.
Jeff Wagner
30-08-2005, 22:41
For those having a "burning" desire to succeed at the hand drill, things are about to get a bit easier for you in terms of material availability. A supply of hand-picked mullein shafts and basswood boards will be there in a few days. These sets will make smoke on the first pass and there should be few reasons, other tender palms, for not achieving abo-fire. :D
I used some plain DIY shed wooden dowl and ash for the hearth, socket and drill as I have some in the garden. Using hands only I managed to get the wood to start blackening before I got a blister on my left hand and had to stop. I
Simon.
Simon, very well done so far.
Hearth
you would do fine with ordinary commercial softwood (pine) used in all sorts of building work. I agree that soft woods may usually be better. How are you on making notches? Working with a hearth board with square edges I find important. Any deviation into comprimise with rounded edges from using small branches doesn't let the powder collect in a pile properly,
Drill
Wooden dowl - 2 problems with this I have found.
a) usually too small a diameter - this cuts up the hands quickly (as you found), and also reduces the chance of getting fire with any wood
b) the punk you get is not dusty usually but fibrous or gritty. This again makes it very difficult as fine dust catches light much easier.
You mentioned sycamore? Do strip the bark before use and make sure it is good and dry but not powdery/ partially rotted.
Sycamore has some good and bad points.
Good:- It is a fairly hard wood.
With hand drilling it gives a fine dust.
Bad:- It can have some hard knots at junctions and can cut up the hands unless you carefully smooth them off
Until you get up to thicker stems it generally doesn't seem to have a softer centre to the wood. I find this a disadvantage. As you drill the tip tapers more and more and this seems to make it difficult to get a coal. The ideal hearth/ drill contact is a square end rather than a point I find. You can get round this by using a pointed tool to hollow out a centimetre or so of the tip.
I don't know what is available in your area but I live in a town/ city and waste places will frequently grow buddliea or elder. I would recommend buddliea if you can get it. (the butterfly bush with usually purple, curving over flower spikes). Hunting round some old dense bushes would be likely to reveal some dead sticks that are straight and long enough. Stuff that has been laying on the ground for a year is usually not good.
The best sticks for hand drilling are often found growing live. You can cut them and store them for later use but it can take weeks (probably less if you strip the bark) before they are useful.
Blisters
They are a nuisance aren't they. Often mild ones settle over 24 hours. What annoys me more is a sort of deep bruising feeling between the bones in my hand that can last for quite a few days.
Borneo Wildman
03-09-2005, 12:36
Goeff - I have been on some foraging walks recently to get some raw materials ready for intensive practice at hand drill method. I cannot find Mullein anywhere. From the book I have it looks massive and I am sure I would have noticed something as obvious. What kind of places does it grow?
You mentioned in your thread that hand picked samples will be arriving in a few days - did you mean that they will be drying and ready to pick soon or were you offering to send a sample to those needy (keen) souls out there?
If so, perhaps I can point out that today (3rd) is my birthday! So anyone who wants to send me bits of stick through the post is most welcome...I can give my address in a PM.
PS I will of course pay for postage
:D
Jeff Wagner
03-09-2005, 13:16
I find mullein growing in fields and along wood edges but I find most of it along motorways. With its tall straight stalk and fat seed head its readily identifiable from the car. I'm almost certain I saw some between Heathrow and Cambridge.
A quantity of spindles and basswood hearthboards are on their way across the water at this moment. Please check availability with Survival School UK in a few days and tell Jonny Crockett I sent you... ;)
I still have not had time to put up a video for viewing. Intended to have this done by now but as with so many things competing for my attention its still waiting. I'll be off on a black bear hunt next week likely out of touch.
It's pretty common around here...
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/images7/mullein1b.jpg
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/images7/mullein2b.jpg
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/images7/mullein3b.jpg
reckon you could put some of that ebay hoodoo and make a quick buck with an imaginative 'as used by RM' title!
its fairly comon down here in devon too!
Jeff Wagner
03-09-2005, 15:11
Hand drill heaven!!
Borneo Wildman
03-09-2005, 19:43
Jeff - thanks for the tip off, I know Jonny and live only about 15 miles from him, so I shall be in touch. Wanted one of your firepistons for ages too...
As for the Pics guys - I can't believe the number of Mullien there. Not exactly endangered. Nothing like that over here. I was reading in Tom Brown's Wild, edible and medicinal plants, a story of him as a child hiding out in the burdock thickets. Stories of getting lost in them and sitting out of sight! I do find burdock here, but lucky to find more than three at once. I have a secret source that are good to eat and quite easy to dig up, but not telling anyone
:)
Borneo Wildman
03-09-2005, 19:48
Following in from the amazing pictures from Hoodoo - I do find a lot of Foxgloves growing around here and it is pretty dry and dead now. Does anyone have any experience using the stems? I'm no good to try until I have mastered the technique.
Following in from the amazing pictures from Hoodoo - I do find a lot of Foxgloves growing around here and it is pretty dry and dead now. Does anyone have any experience using the stems? I'm no good to try until I have mastered the technique.
Mullein - I read somewhere that it was a native of Europe and the UK and was introduced into USA. Presumably due to lack of natural predators it is reported to have become quite a pest there. By the look of the pictures I see what they mean! In the UK it seems more sporadic. It is supposed to have amazingly long lived seed - 100 years or more - which probably accounts for the odd ones that come up in my garden - between 1 and 3 per year. Last year I scattered 1000s of seeds in certain areas and none came up this year. My decendants may curse me!
Foxglove - I did have a go at this last autumn. I was defeated by the triangular cross section of the stem with a large cavity in the middle in the specimen I tried with. Mullein is nicely round in cross section.
It's a biennial so the first year you should look for rosettes. Flower stalks the next year.
It's a biennial so the first year you should look for rosettes. Flower stalks the next year.
Thanks. Yes, and no sign of the little grey green furry little leaf clusters at ground level either.
I have been thinking about why I find hand drilling easier than bow drilling. One thing I suspect is a great help is moistening my hands for drilling and during drilling. That way I get a very good grip on the drill so that little energy is wasted in pressing my hands together to keep them from sliding down the shaft.
regarding the foxglove, last year i tried it many times. it always seemed too fragile and hollow--i never got anywhere near a generated ember with it...
Borneo Wildman
12-09-2005, 20:02
Thanks guys for the advice. I won't be trying to learn using Foxglove then! I have had a little success (some smoke and a little black powder) from some dried teasel. To my surprise it generates quite a bit of heat. Just need to work on the technique and stamina a bit.
Also collected a load of different material to dry and try. Burdock stem, budliea, willow, teasel, sycamore, and witch hazel. I will have a go at all of them and if any work, post my excitement!
Any tips welcome.
Also collected a load of different material to dry and try. Burdock stem, budliea, willow, teasel, sycamore, and witch hazel. I will have a go at all of them and if any work, post my excitement!
Any tips welcome.
Go with the buddliea first - that is my favourite for hand drill from your list there.
Well done with the teasel - I have found it tricky so far - fairly fragile and hollow stem, but maybe I haven't found a good specimen yet.
What are you drilling onto and how big is the diameter of the teasel end?
I have had a little success (some smoke and a little black powder) from some dried teasel. To my surprise it generates quite a bit of heat. Just need to work on the technique and stamina a bit.
Further thought here. Wow - you got smoke. That is the main battle won if the setup is right to eventually succeed. The next challenge is actually easier than that. Aim to get a little smoke coming on and off with some intermittent drilling while you are recovering your breath. As the drill/ hearth junction heats through it should become easier and easier. Aim for at least a couple of minutes of this.
Finally, when you and the drill feel ready, give it all you have got for about 3 passes down the drill. Then sit back and reflect.
Do you moisten your hands intermittently to keep a good grip? Damp flannel or the good old tongue are equally effective.
Jeff Wagner
13-09-2005, 16:08
I am back from a week of bear hunting in Maine and will try to get a video up for viewing. You will simply not believe how easy this is with a mullein spindle and basswood. Once the hearthboard has been burned-in you should expect to see smoke after the first pass and a coal by the fifth - and good blisters by the 7th... :rolleyes:
Alberto Hernandez
14-09-2005, 01:50
Bravo Jeff
I am looking forward to your video and hopefully some pictures too! :)
To those of you who are learning the hand drill. My advice is when you
start to spin the drill do not bother to spin all the way down the drill at
first simply spin the drill at the top or near the top of the drill and once
you beging to see a good amount of smoke then go head and spin
fast and with lots of down ward pressure as you travel down the drill!
That technique help me learn the hand drill method of friction fire making
years ago when I was teaching my self! :rolleyes:
It also reduces fatigue! :D
Best wishes to All
Alberto
DOC-CANADA
14-09-2005, 06:42
Hi all;
Been away from BCUK for awhile (computer died). Still trying to get used to this new forum format.
Anyway, my 2 cents worth. I have been doing hand drill fires for 9 years. (First one 10/21/96- pretty obsessive, eh what?). Anyway I've used quite a few different materials, although no where near what Storm has used, but one of my favourite combinations is American Basswood (Tilia americana) and Common Teasel (Dipsacus sylvestris). I mention this because you have Tilia europea and I think one other of that genus and I believe you also have the Teasel. There are not many better combinations than this.
I find the single biggest problem people have with hand drill coals is they try too hard. GOTTA GET THAT COAL!, and as a result all their muscles are tensed up, in particular shoulders and upper arms - end result, premature muscle fatigue.
Concentrate on relaxing the muscles.
Also, concentrate on working your hands down the drill. I use a drill that is approximately 40" long. I use a field measurement of from the ground to my navel. My feeling is that too much emphasis is placed on applying pressure downward. I find that just concentrating on working my hands down the drill, takes care of the pressure needed. If you put too much pressure on the drill, the charred powder becomes too coarse, requiring higher temperatures for ignition.
One other thing, I read in one of the posts to keep your hands damp. Don't be shy, spit on them, just don't get them too wet.
BTW, my fastest timed coal was 15 seconds, almost double what the record is apparently (8 seconds - Alan Halcon) but I am more concerned about getting a coal when I need one than on breaking any records.
Speaking of records, I kept records of the first 500 coals, including dates, types of materials, difficulty, and anything else relevant. I suggest you do the same as it's really helpful when the memory comes up short.)
Anyway, hope that helps,
If you have any questions, and you feel shy about posting, feel free to email me. Address is in profile.
Also you may want to check out PaleoPlanet
http://p081.ezboard.com/bpaleoplanet69529
There is currently discussion about hand drill fires.
:) Doc (Canada) :)
Ogri the trog
14-09-2005, 06:53
Hi all;
(First one 10/21/96- pretty obsessive, eh what?).
Speaking of records, I kept records of the first 500 coals, including dates, types of materials, difficulty, and anything else relevant.
:) Doc (Canada) :)
Doc,
Remembering your first time is just good memory.....
....Keeping records of your first 500.....now thats obsessive :eek: :eek: :eek:
I'll definately be checking out the paleoplanet site.
ATB
Ogri the trog
Bravo Jeff
I am looking forward to your video and hopefully some pictures too! :)
To those of you who are learning the hand drill. My advice is when you start to spin the drill do not bother to spin all the way down the drill at first simply spin the drill at the top or near the top of the drill and once you beging to see a good amount of smoke then go head and spin fast and with lots of down ward pressure as you travel down the drill! That technique help me learn the hand drill method of friction fire making years ago when I was teaching my self! :rolleyes:
It also reduces fatigue! :D
Best wishes to All
Alberto
Hi Alberto,
Welcome to Bushcraftuk. Agree with everything you say. However, the ability to get enough downward pressure to get smoke with spinning just at the top can take some learning as well. Some people call it "floating". I think that having a variety of techniques to spin the drill is invaluable as you use different muscle groups and therefore get less muscle fatigue overall. Using thumb loops is another variation that can help in a similar fashion.
One thing that really helped when I was learning was to drill with a power drill. One could then have confidence that your setup of drill, board, notch etc will work if you get it right.
I am back from a week of bear hunting in Maine and will try to get a video up for viewing. You will simply not believe how easy this is with a mullein spindle and basswood. Once the hearthboard has been burned-in you should expect to see smoke after the first pass and a coal by the fifth - and good blisters by the 7th... :rolleyes:
I fully agree that these are good materials to work with. Basswood by the way = lime tree for the UK folks. But for beginners forget speed. If will defeat you. Take it easier. Get to smoking point slowly, keep it at smoking point for a while. Too fast too soon and there will still be moisture in the wood keeping it from turning to a coal.
If you want speed then keep your materials in a boiler house for a few days before use so they are really dry.
Abbe Osram
14-09-2005, 09:07
Has anyone of you had sucess with birch, Rowan,
Common Junipe or Garden Angelicar? The question is important to me because I have very few trees up here in the north to choose from. We have Willow here too but not very big, more like big bushes at the best.
cheers
Abbe
Has anyone of you had sucess with birch, Rowan,
Common Junipe or Garden Angelicar? The question is important to me because I have very few trees up here in the north to choose from.
Abbe
I have not tried any of those, although the first 3 are around. I have not tried them because I have never found a conveniently shaped bit of wood within reach. Do any of them naturally throw good straight wood that can be used to make a drill 18" to 2 foot long?
If finding a long straight bit is difficult you can always splice short piece on a longer piece of anything the right shape and size.
Jeff Wagner
14-09-2005, 16:02
If finding a long straight bit is difficult you can always splice short piece on a longer piece of anything the right shape and size.[/QUOTE]
This is precisely the premise behind the socket concept. Mate a suitable spindle with short plug of suitable fire making wood.
Maybe no one wants to cut down a piece of Rowan over here 'cos it supposed to be bad luck!? :rolleyes: (well at least thats wot i've been told)
I'm currently having no fun with my first Elder hand dril :(
I have never tried using rowan, but having said that It would probably be quite difficult as it is a member of the ash family. Next time I come across a bit I may try it with firebow first and possibly hand drill after depending:)
I have never tried using rowan, but having said that It would probably be quite difficult as it is a member of the ash family. Next time I come across a bit I may try it with firebow first and possibly hand drill after depending:)
I was going to say that I have recently found something new about drilling with ash - that if left to season for a year or so then it seems easier to drill with. Then I checked and I now think that rowan and ash may be not closely related - they are in different families and the fruits are so different.
On the subject of spit for friction - great stuff, but I mentioned using water instead as I was demonstrating hand drilling this year and realised that if everyone used that technique then the more squeamish might be put off by the thought of sharing a bit if they used my drills after me.
Hi Scruff. Do you want to say more about your troublesome elder setup?