View Full Version : What PCP air rifle should i get ?
I am looking at getting back into Air rifle shooting . I fancy getting a pre charged pneumatic , but am unsure what would be a good buy .
I will probabley do a bit of target shooting aswell as rabbit etc. so am looking for a good accurate rifle . Any ideas ?
cheers
Pumbaa
Ogri the trog
01-07-2005, 18:05
Hi Pumbaa,
Take a trip over to Airgunbbs, plenty of good people on there too. Your question has been asked many times over with the advantage that members sell on their airguns when they trade up on equipment - so there are good bargains to be had.
There is an eternal arguement over the .177/.22 debate - have a browse, I'm sure you'll come away enlightened.
ATB
Ogri the trog
rapidboy
01-07-2005, 19:30
The answer is ............ Rapid :D
All you ever wanted to know and more http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5829
rb
Been looking myself for some time. It seems like the favorites are....
Theoben - any of the Rapid range.
Daystate - either the Harrier x2 or the Daystate Mk3
AirArms - s400 or s410 range
Prices on the above range from about £350 to £1000 depending on extras and stuff. All of em seem to come very highly regarded and all are said to "shoot better than the owner".
As for calibre, the clever money seems to be moving towards .177 and away from .22 - the hunters as well, not just the target shooters.
Scopes are expensive too - budget for at least £100 for a cheap, but acceptable scope and mounts - up to £500 or more for a good scope.
Best buy seems to be:
Try to find a good condition, secondhand AirArms s410 classic fitted with a half decent scope and mounts.
rapidboy
01-07-2005, 20:45
I recently bought a wee S410 carbine.
Second hand but you can't tell as it's mint with less than a tin of pellets through it c/w a new Simmons 44 mag scope and a nice padded case for £280 (a new 44 mag is worth £270 on it's own) - so as Martyn say's second hand is probably the best way to go.
Loads of guns out there but best to stick with something proven and easy to sell on.
Best advice is to go along to your local FT club and talk to shooters ,99.9% will insist you try out their gun and you will soon find what type ,weight ,style of gun suits you.
Seriously ,FT shooters are usually good guy's and more than happy to give someone a shot or some advice.
I shoot quite a bit so if you have any questions ask away on here or by PM and i will do my best to help.
Cheers
rb
Cheers , there is a field target club near me (but i haven't managed to get an answer on the phone no. and there site is unavailable).
But what exactly is field target shooting ? Its not a term i have heard before and wondered what to expect !
Cheers
Pumbaa
rapidboy
01-07-2005, 22:27
Cheers , there is a field target club near me (but i haven't managed to get an answer on the phone no. and there site is unavailable).
But what exactly is field target shooting ? Its not a term i have heard before and wondered what to expect !
Cheers
Pumbaa
FT is about spending a small fortune on the latest high tech shooting equipment and then walking around saying "how the #### did i miss that ???" :rolleyes:
Or maybe it just seems like that sometimes!
It started out as a hunting simulation / fun shoot and has evolved into a highly competitive sport.
If anyone is interested in seeing it at it's best then the World Championships are being held in England this year at the Midland Game Fair in September.
It involves shooting at steel knock down targets (animal silhouette's) that fall flat when the "kill" zone is hit.
Kill zones are 25 mm and 40mm and targets can be up to 55 yards away from the shooter.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/370_7062_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/392_9230_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/404_0475_1z.jpg
rb
I've since sold mine to the other halfs's father, with the option to buy back whenever i want.
It was a Theoben Rapid 7 Mk1 with the TASCO Predator Mil-Dot sights (I forget what size..but they were the bigger size).
Not much help to you I know but I really enjoyed it's company so I thought it well worth a mention :D
It involves shooting at steel knock down targets (animal silhouette's) that fall flat when the "kill" zone is hit.
Kill zones are 25 mm and 40mm and targets can be up to 55 yards away from the shooter.
CQBR with rabbits!
rapidboy
02-07-2005, 11:38
Field Target / Hunter Field Target club's are also used by many as a means of keeping their eye in for hunting rather than for serious competition.
Single shot rifles in .177 reign supreme for the target disciplines but multishots are nice (but not essential) for hunting and the calibre debate continues.
A multishot PCP allows a quick second shot - anyone who believes that 1 shot is all you ever need is only fooling themselves and a quick second shot often prevents a wounded rabbit getting back to cover.
Pumbaa this is not aimed at you as you say that you are returning to airgun shooting but others who read this thread who are not shooters should realise that the goal should always be to dispatch the quarry as quickly and humanely as possible.
You should not buy a gun and head straight for the fields - instead spend a lot of time familiarising yourself with it and it's trajectory.
I can assure you it's horrible listening to a wounded rabbit squealing just out of reach in it's burrow.
You should not hunt until you can hit a 40mm steel kill zone every time at your intended killing distance.
Once you start missing a 40mm paper or steel target you know that this is beyond the range at which you should hunt.
Modern PCP airguns are very capable of putting food on the table and i choose to hunt with airguns rather than my .22 rimfire and my shotguns on almost all occasions.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/404_0455_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/392_9292_1.jpg
rb
Sound advice from Rapidboy.
And don't forget .20 calibre ;)
Cheers , going to a ft meet tommorrow morning , so should get to try a few out .
Pumbaa
Spacemonkey
03-07-2005, 10:07
"FT is about spending a small fortune on the latest high tech shooting equipment and then walking around saying "how the #### did i miss that ???"
Or maybe it just seems like that sometimes!"
Now that's the best description I've heard about FT ever! I think that nowadays you can't really go wrong with any of the top brands PCP's, and shouldn't need to spend a fortune on a scope either. Like all shooting sports, it's about correct tecnique and practice.
Buckshot
04-07-2005, 08:55
I took my son to a 'BASC Young shots' day on Saturday. They did a little of all sorts of stuff. Corse and fly fishing (Michael managed to tangle the line around the tutor and himself!), decoying (pigeon and goose) and camo/ concealment, Falcony (he held an Eagle owl and a Harris Hawk), shotgun, air rifle, meet the hounds (from the local fox pack) and they even had a demo of a punt gun :eek:
Anyway, I was talking to the chap teaching airguns, very nice bloke (let me have a go - they were using Airarms S410's) turns out he's won more FT comps than I've had hot dinners ! World FT champ TWICE !!! - and he's teaching my son. I'd better watch out :eek:
He's reteired now and unfortunately I didn't get his name but really nice people.
Excellent day!
Cheers
Mark
Buckshot
04-07-2005, 08:56
Oh btw Pumbaa, good question ;)
http://www.falcon-airguns.co.uk/images/13_3.jpg
I have one of these :) Falcon raptor lighthunter (think thats its full name). It has an 8 shot magazine is bolt operated, purchased about 5-6 years ago, and is still my favourite bit of kit. My one has a silencer and bipod, the scope I use is a simmons whitetail classic 3.5-10 X 50. Really good bit of optics, comes in to its own in low light and lamping.
Still remember the first time I shot her, we had a 30m range cobbled together at my parents. It had a series of pulleys attached to the washing line posts, and suspended targets on a length of string which could be moved up and down the garden, was areally good system and great fun. Anway setup a workbench as a rest and a chair and proceded to put 2 mags through the same hole. Problem with PCP rifles is that they remove many of the excuses for missing.
Before that I had a HW80, but I also had a full custom Venom HW80 on long term loan, think this was possibly the best springer I have ever shot.
Also echo what others have said, have a play with some before buying. As with all guns fit is essential, bad fit will make your life very difficult. Airgunbbs is very good for finding clubs near you, or you could ask if anybody knows of a shop with a range in your area.
MartiniDave
04-07-2005, 10:03
I've always had good results with my air arms s400 in .177, but I still enjoy getting out with my 25 yr old fwb Sport, a true classic springer if ever there was one. With a pcp remember to factor in the cost of getting air into it, be it a pump or a dive bottle.
With the poularity of pcp, there are some very good deals to be had on tasty second hand springers.
Handle as many different rifles as possible and get what YOU like and feel happy with.
Enjoy the sport
Dave
I'm also having this problem of which pcp to get. I've got a spring gun and had a lot of practise with that at the local ft range and I've had a go with a couple of pcp's. So I don't know whether to get a air arms s410 or a logun axsor or gemini. If anyone has any experience with any of these I'd be very gratefull of the information and I'm open to other suggestions but I don't really want to spend over £400.
Does anyone know of a good place to get second hand pcp's from? I see rapid boy got a good deal on his S410.
Thanks
rapidboy
15-08-2005, 22:25
The original Logun rifles are beautiful guns ,accurate and well balanced and a trigger that breaks like glass.
The newer models like the axor are made for logun (in Sweden as far as i know) and while they are OK they are not built like the originals.
I almost bought one of the first ones when Jim Logun let me shoot it but the magazine jammed twice and that was enough to make me walk away.
I collected my AA S410 at the weekend and stuck an AA silencer on it and a Simmons 44Mag scope.
I never really liked these little guns but i couldn't believe how accurate and quiet it was for a bog standard little hunting carbine.
The trigger was terrible but a quick polish and adding a few washers made all the difference and I'm looking forward to some 12ft lb hunting.
As i said i never really liked the S410's but my club has 3 for "have a go" rifles and after 3 years of abuse at game fairs and as club guns they are still running so i have a new found respect for these little PCP's.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/guns/432_3268_1.jpg
I paid £180 for my rifle c/w 1 mag ,£100 for the scope and £20 for a silencer so all in £300 :) and all unused ,
Now that was a pretty good price and i knew the guy who was selling up but there are good buy's out there so keep looking and im sure you will get sorted for £400.
Clubs tend to be a better bet than shops for a bargain as shooters who are packing can offer complete kits at great prices.
rb
So RB would you reccomend a Logun Axsor or a S410 as I've only shot the axsor but not an S410 only an S400 and I liked both guns.
rapidboy
16-08-2005, 19:22
If i was thinking about a new Axor or S410 then i'd recomend a second hand rapid :rolleyes:
A rapid wins hands down every time but between the Axor and the S410 then i'd go with the S410.
If you want to hunt the S410 is the way to go but if you want it for plinking / target and maybe an occasional hunt then you could consider an S400.
Same gun as the S410 but a single shot and a bit cheaper.
The mag is nice for hunting but not essential.
You said your budget is £400 ,is that for a gun and scope or is that for charging kit as well ?
It's 400 for just the gun and scope.
How much could you get a rapid for? If it's too much I'll go for an S410 as I do want it for hunting.
rapidboy
17-08-2005, 18:31
You need to look around but i got a Mk1 ,12ft/lbs ,.22 in a r/h stock and 1 x 7 shot mag for £350.
My first was new and came in at about £800 but that was FAC and a Tyrolean stock.
Loads around and i would think you could get sorted for £400.
weekend_warrior
17-08-2005, 19:26
This link is to a local clubs forum near me - might be of interest to you! The HW100 is a fair bit of kit.. ;)
http://1.myfreebulletinboard.com/lvagc-about50.html
HTH
rapidboy
17-08-2005, 20:18
I was shooting an HW100 a couple of weeks ago.
The new ones have a better stock (the first ones are pants).
Trigger is good and they are very quiet.
I chronoed this one and it was a little inconsistent but certainly a well made gun.
Slower than the opposition for a second shot.
Daystate make a good gun and you have a great little multi shot hunter in the PH6 which should be good value second hand.
rb
Is the BSA Hornet any good? I handled one at the Game Fair and it seemed very light and handy.
rapidboy
17-08-2005, 23:01
Is the BSA Hornet any good? I handled one at the Game Fair and it seemed very light and handy.
12ftlbs they are ok but the FAC version is rubbish (hard to cock and low shot count).
There are a lot of PCP's around and im in the fortunate position that i have shot a lot of them.
You could say a Frost Mora is a good knife but it's not in the same league as a Woodlore.
A BSA hornet is an entry level PCP ,it is a perfectly usable rifle but it's not direct competition for an AA S41o.
It's comparable to an AA S200.
I would not buy one ,for that money i'd buy a quality springer or a second hand S400 /S410.
Springers are not in vogue at the moment and offer great value.
Thanks - most useful.
Currently have a 25 year old BSA Airsporter 'S' but I do find the thought of a PCP tempting.
Also have a Feinwerkbau 65 recoilless spring-piston pistol that I shoot in competition. Just about everyone uses PCP pistols these days. Nevertheless, in the heyday of the Feinwerkbau 65 the top shots were getting 570+ ex 600 with them, so it is still perfectly possible to compete with one.
I still find springers a good bet if your going to be shooting away from a power source, when camping on land where I have shooting rights, I always use my SFS Spectre ( a custom WH95), no need to rely on bottles and pumps etc. Also at typical hunting ranges, a 12fpe springer is as acurate as a PCP, it only takes more practice - which is not a bad thing.
Can anyone offer advice on the use of a bipod ?
I've just upgraded to an S410 TDR (from a springer), to compensate for being a poor shot; and wonder if a bipod would reduce the chance of a miss any further.
Sorry, late to the conversation, I know (first time poster).
Hi chance, bipods are quite good when being used in prone position or if you can use them to support the front end of the rifle.
There are downsides to using them though, firstly that you become reliant upon them if you are not carefull. Try using supported positions a little where you rest your hand against a tree or fence post to give your supporting hand a little help and stability.
You can also use a rifle sling to support a rifle, in prone (when laying down) you can use a small bean bag or a bunched sling to support the hand under the furniture of the rifle.
In the end it does come down to lots of practice, if you try and hold a position for a long period of time you will become unstable and start to shake, try and relax as well as not holding a position for too long, this will reduce muscle fatigue and reduce the shakes a little. Breath normally, don't do the holding the breath bit as this starts to starve the muscles of oxygen once again causing you to shake.
Bipods are good mainly for prone postion, but can be used for others. However do not become reliant on them as the majority of the time if you are hunting you will not get a chance to use one.
Thanks.
I only ever shoot supported, as I know I'm not good enough for a free-standing shot. I'm getting good groups with the new rifle (I even hit a fly at 30m when zeroing; a fluke); but wondered whether a bipod will offer a practical advantage.
If it makes the difference between a wound and a kill, I'm willing to put up with any inconvenience.
However, your advice appears to show that there is no net advantage, so I will perservere with fieldcraft.
andy_scouser
17-05-2006, 14:17
I still find springers a good bet if your going to be shooting away from a power source, when camping on land where I have shooting rights, I always use my SFS Spectre ( a custom WH95), no need to rely on bottles and pumps etc. Also at typical hunting ranges, a 12fpe springer is as acurate as a PCP, it only takes more practice - which is not a bad thing.Agreed 100%. I can group 15mm at 45yds with my TX200mk3 or HW77k Venom springers. Id knock 5mm off of htat with my 'long ago sold' Ripley AR5S PCP rifle. Springers are so much more satisfying and if you keep to the same shooting position, easy enough to master if you keep a consistant hold.
If you want easy though, get a PCP air arms 400 or multishot 410....MUST ALL BE IN .177 unless you are buying a Fire arms version which is above 12ft/lb, in which case get a .22. I hunt and target shoot with my rifles.
By the way, a bipod works VERY well on a PCP rifle, but are hopeless on springers. Let a springer move naturally in the palm of your hand, with a loose grip. Think of the girlfreind ;)
rapidboy
17-05-2006, 20:30
I don't use a bipod very often, they are good for long range plinking or hunting but but too slow for general hunting and i tend to use a proper bench rest for taget shooting.
With a PCP like your AirArms try using one of the Field Target sitting stances, either off the knee or over arm stances are very stable and should tighten your group.
When im hunting i often drop into an off the knee position for longer shots as it's very quick given a little practice.
rb
ArkAngel
18-05-2006, 21:48
Hi
A bipod can be useful to help steady the gun, but as said below there is little to beat a good shooting stance.
I did have a Rapid Mk2 on FAC and used a bipod on that. Useful but on the ground i shoot over undulated wildly and the grass had a habit of growing (how inconsiderate!) so the bipod that only extended to about 12" became useless.
I now use a .17HMR rimfire rifle and use some longer shooting sticks to cope with the greater range (average 100-200m) they are superb but they do make me look like Gandalf in DPM wandering round the farm as they are about 6' tall!