View Full Version : Nettle cordage Improving Technique
jdlenton
10-06-2005, 11:35
Hi all I’ve put this thread together after reading all the other threads regarding nettle cordage as I now have more questions than answers and want to improve my technique.
I guess I’ll start by telling you what I did so you can tell me if I went wrong any where and how to improve it and then I’ll ask the questions I now have.
I went and got my self 3 or 4 nettles cutting them as close to the ground as I could about an inch above the ground. I then stripped off the leaves and with no wilting/drying time went on to the next step.
I stood on the stems to break up the inner part of the stem as per Toddy’s suggestion in one of the other threads
I split the tube of the crushed stem down one side to create a flat strip suggested by Hoochi in a thread
I peeled of the outer layer I’ll call it the bark and hung it up to dry in the greenhouse. It then looked like this (sorry about the quality of the photo)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/jdlenton/bushcraft/rawfibers.jpg
I separated the now dry bark into thin and as long as I could get strips about 2 to 3mm wide and rolled them into small twists about 1-1.5 mm in diameter so they looked like this.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/jdlenton/bushcraft/singlestrands.jpg
I took two of these lengths and bent them at about 2/3 one side and 1/3 the other (I think I explained that the best way) I don’t know who suggested it but it was to stop the splices on each side of the twist being together and making a thick part to the cord when new lengths of fibre were added.
I then started to twist as in this diagram I think this is the method Hoochi described in another thread.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/jdlenton/bushcraft/twists.jpg
I spliced new lengths of small twists as the lengths were wound into the twist like in this diagram
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/jdlenton/bushcraft/splice.jpg
The resulting cord was about 3mm in diameter and just over a meter long, it looks like this. I don’t think its too bad for a first go at making cordage
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/jdlenton/bushcraft/coil001.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/jdlenton/bushcraft/0027.jpg
So now onto my questions:-
1. As I was working the twist I noticed the very fine light green fibres had a coating that I could guess as the out side of the nettle so how do I remove this to refine my fibres and up the quality of my cordage?
2. I think the answer to the first question is retting, I am currently retting some fibres one set in a bucket of tap water (I think this is called the water method), the other set on the lawn (I think this is called the dew method) how long should I do this for? What do I look for in the fibres to tell that they are clean/ready to use?
3. Once the retting is done what do I do with the raw fibres to improve the quality of my cordage, how do I treat, clean, handle and store them?
4. Do I leave the fibres straight or twist them before I start to twist them into cordage
5. Can I colour my cordage? If so what do I use as dye stuff and what colours can I get?
6. What are the different lays that I can use to make a nice thick piece of cord say for the top and bottom lines of a gill net or a nice fine piece to make into a lanyard?
7. If I want to make a fishing kit with some cordage how thick should it be and how should I attach it to a hook? Also what design of woods built (by this I mean non metal) hook should I use, a black thorn or some sort of wood and bone combination maybe?
I’m looking forward to what you have to say and trying out all your hints and tips.
All the best
VIRULENT SALAMANDER
10-06-2005, 23:46
.... .. JD, here's a links to some info. they looked good to me..... http://stoneflake.net/beargrass/nettle.htm & http://www.uwlax.edu/sociology/Archaeology/students/schultz/Cat-Cord.htm & http://www.wssa.net/photo&info/larrymitich_info/nettles.html I hope it helps you my friend.
Ps hope your fingers not still green(Lol).
I read this thread earlier in the day and thought if he does all that and experiments he will probably be the BCUK expert.
Q1 I think most people would just leave the cord as you've made it. Then use it for whatever purpose, its only a bit of string!!!! The green adds colour and will change with time.
Q2. The use of the nettle green is a bushcraft expedient for an instant string. The retting, hacking and combing is more of an old rural method for extracting the fibre. The whole nettle was retted in pits so that you dont have to break, split and remove the fibre from each stalk individually.
When retted enough you can extract the fibre more easily, time and temperarture will obviously affect retting action..
Once retted the bunches of nettles were hackled by beating to remove the inner "pithy" bit and the the hackled bunches were combed with a metal comb to extract the fibres.
Q3. Should be reasonable clean but more combing/brushing to improve fibres and keep them dry until use.
Q4 When you twist them you into cordage you twist them so i dont think a pretwist required.
Q5 Never tried. Presumably any dye would work but I prefer au naturel.
Q6 Either use more fibre to make two thicker twinned cords or twist up a third cord and add into the twin ply to make three ply. You of course make up three, three ply cords and lay them in together to make a much bigger cord. With single or double yarns you could flat plait them or circular or square plait them.
Q7 For fishing line, strength test your cord and make it up to the strength you want. I have made hooks from bone in shape similar to metal ones but thicker or you can make bone gorges(get stuck in the mouth.) You can whip it on or depending on hook type perhaps incorporate a hole and knot it on. The thorn hooks are fixed to the non working end (the end you start with) of twinned cordage. And I can't explain in words how perhaps you can see the first part of the latestr RM programme?.
Hope it helps.
What you have made sounds like good sound cordage.
To refine it ? Well, practice makes better quality and retting gives only the fine fibres. However, only about 1% -2% of the weight of dried nettles is the fine white fibres. While this is a necessary step for cloth making it's not really needed for cordage.
To colour the fibres you have to overcome the nettles own green/brown colouring first. Let the cordage soak in warm water and rinse thoroughly. Then let it soak in a madder root solution.....depending on whether you add mordant or not you'll get either a dull red or a chestnut brown or perhaps even a plum colour. If you soak the cordage in oak bark liquor you'll get brown, woad will give blue and birch leaves or weld will give a yellow. Problem is that soaking must be kept short if you can or the fibres will start to rett and your cordage will weaken.
Vigorous combing to remove debris only suceeds in breaking up the fibres too. Better to hold the retted bundle under running water and gently work your fingers through the lengths allowing the water to 'comb' the fibres free. This avoids snarls and gives excellent fine fibres in good workable lengths.
Cheers,
Toddy
there are people far more knowledgeable with cordage on here than I, so i will leave information about cordage to them. But I may be able to help you with the fishhooks.
the cordage you have looks thick enough for fishing, test a section of it first though to be sure, and be aware of any weaker sections in the length you wish to use. (its only as strong as its weakest point)
my favourite Bush fishhook is this one:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/diabolik/fishhookSt.jpg
made from a sharpened wishbone fitted into a wooden shaft.
other designs include but are not limited too:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/diabolik/fishhookhc.jpg
left to right: a wooden gorge designed to lodge in the gullet, another wishbone hook, a thorn hook (damaged), wooden fishhook, bone and wood fishhook.
here is a fishing set using nettle cordage, a stone weight, wooden float (note the peg which allows you to adjust the position of the float, which in this picture is the wrong way around, the wide end of the peg should be on the reel side of the float) and hand reel (the reel tapers to a narrow cross section beneath the cordage, so the is more cordage on the reel that there appears). there is also another wishbone hook in the centre of the picture.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/diabolik/fishset.jpg
there are of course many other designs.
I will make up a new thorn hook and post a better picture of it
If you want to make it look tidy just run it quickly through a candle flame and it'll scorch off the wispy bits.
And if you use it for fishing dry it carefully after use as it'll rot quickly.
jdlenton
13-06-2005, 15:15
Thank you all for your replies.
It looks like I'm off to make a fishing kit and some hooks and then I think I'm going to make a net
Stuart: Out of interest how long is the line on your fishing set?
Off to pick lots of nettles now and harden up my rolling callus to make meters of cord
Will post some photos of my results
Buckshot
13-06-2005, 16:08
Just wondering, would there be any advantage to using nettle on one side and say a bark of some sort on the other?
You'd nee to make sure the strands stayed the same size to stop one curling around the other I know but I wonder if the properties of one material would benefit the other?
Or is that just being silly?
Cheers
Mark
Stuart: Out of interest how long is the line on your fishing set?
I have just gotten it out and measured it and the one in the picture above has 20 feet (6m) of nettle line.
which reminds me, I said I would make and post a picture of a thorn treble hook, so I am of to find some thorns.
I have just gotten it out and measured it and the one in the picture above has 20 feet (6m) of nettle line.
which reminds me, I said I would make and post a picture of a thorn treble hook, so I am of to find some thorns.
Post some pictures of how you make too Stuart :D
Just wondering, would there be any advantage to using nettle on one side and say a bark of some sort on the other?
You'd nee to make sure the strands stayed the same size to stop one curling around the other I know but I wonder if the properties of one material would benefit the other?
Or is that just being silly?
Cheers
Mark
Hmm, interesting. The only bark I've worked with is willow and it was a lot stiffer than nettle fibres so the nettle might tend to wrap around the bark fibres. Perhaps mixing the fibre so you have some bark and some nettle in each strand?
Hi guys,
Having read this thread I thought I'd give nettle cordage a try. It worked ok but I find that when I try to roll the fibres down my thigh they just slip, rather than roll\twist. Any tips? I tried different pairs of trousers (even some of my wifes!) but I'm finding it hard to get a decent twist ...
Any tips gratefully received!
Mat
I've used my bare thigh for this and it grips very well - however if like me you happen to have any hairs on your leg you'll sound find these in your fibres and no longer attached to your leg - OUCH! :eek:
jdlenton
16-06-2005, 13:04
Hi Mat
I’ve not had much success trying the leg rolling method with nettles either, it may well work with other fibres but I haven’t tried it as this is also my first foray into making cordage.
This is how I role my fibres:
After preparing a bundle of fibre half the thickness of the finished cord, I hold it with my hands six to twelve inches apart the centre of the gap between my hands is about one third of the way from one end. Twisting the fibres clockwise with both hands, I wind the bundle tight making single-ply cordage. I then bring my hands closer together and keep twisting, a kink should form and rotate on its own in an anti clockwise direction (as in the first drawing below). Twist until two or three rotations occur you now have the start of two-ply cord.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/jdlenton/bushcraft/cordage01.jpg
I then finger twist in the hand, winding the finished cordage onto a bobbin or netting needle as I go. When finger twisting the left hand acts to control tension while the right hand does the twisting.
To finger twist place the Y the point where the two ply’s come together between your left thumb and fore finger.
[Step 1]Take the lower of the two ply strands and twist it tightly clockwise lock the twist in by closing your remaining three fingers over the strand.
[step2]Then while holding the twisted ply A securely, twist ply B with your right thumb and forefinger. As you twist, you should feel the completed string begin to twist counter-clockwise. Follow this motion with your left thumb and forefinger while maintaining even tension and a symmetrical Y.
Next move your left thumb up to the fork in the Y as before and repeat steps 1 and 2 until you need to add more fibre.
This diagram should help clear tings up if I haven’t been too clear
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/jdlenton/bushcraft/cordage03.jpg
Hope you understand what I’m getting at and happy finger twisting
cicelythepotter
14-10-2006, 20:53
that cordage is great- especially for a first attempt.
when ive done nettle/ bramble cordage ive done it like this:
1. pick the nettles/ bramble runners( as long, straight and thick as possible), strip the branches/ leaves/ thorns off)
2. one at a time, beat the stems with a wooden baton on a hard wooden (smooth) surface- i use a 25 cm long section of haxel or chestnut( fresh so that its a bit heavier from the sap) and keep the beating hand in prettymuch the same place while my left hand feeds the stem/ runner undrneath.- bas a bit harder on the nodes and let the bounce of the baton set the rhythm fo that you are beating fast, with little movements and virtually no effort.
3 split the stem using the side of your thumbnail (not a knife) ususlly, if youve done the beating right, the stem wil be divided lengthwise into 4 strands which stay linked together at the nodes.
4. holding the split stem between your hands(as though your praying), hold the pith (stiff rough brittle side ) so that it is grippped the thumb and the knuckle bit on the side of your hand, and the thin stringy green side is held by the other hand in exactly the same way. that way you can controll the way the pith and outer fibres separate by rocking your hands back different amounts
once you have some long strands of the strong outer fibres, tear them into narrower strips and dry them
tfor laying them up into cordage, i have tried thigh rolling etc but never had much luck with it. for thin cordage, I hold the bit with both strands twisted together at the point where they fork and use the thimb and index finger of the other hand to roll the 2 strands(at the same time but separately if that makes sense)when they are twisted enough, release the fork point ( held by index and thumb of left hand) and the strands twist together.
theres a bit of a knack to it especially wth strands that are wide and flat- having slightly grimy hands helps.
as for dyeing, there are loads of naturad dyes around though the colours would be more visible on refined fibres( retted and combed nettles can be cleaned and refined till they are pure white and like silk- theres a fairy tale about it involving 7 brothers who get turned into swans)
here are a few dyes: note- the dye can be made 'fast' i.e a bit more fadeproof by stewing the fibres in a solulion of alum ( and aluminium salt - evil stuff), or by pre stewing it in a load of rhubarb leaves though these will impart a bit of colour themselves.) dyes from trees do not need mordenting to remain fast because the tannin found in them acts as a mordent. you can also use over stewed tea as a mordent because it contains bitter tasting tannin- boil a handfull or more of cheap teabags for an hour or more and add it to the dyebath/ or pre stew the cordage in it
I know that with willow, boiling the fibres in lye solution makes them last longer and changes the colour to a browny purple so that might work for nettles too.
madder- reds and pinks- use the finely chopped root, and do not boil or you will get brown. stewing the mixture with a some oat/ wheat bran in a copper pot makes a brighter colour( the copper thing goes for all of the following. put the rooty bits in a muslin bag along with the bran or youll spend forever picking the bits of root out of you cordage
oak galls- black( or just about the closest youll get pick loads of oak galls, smash them up, place in a muslin bag and boil, when the walter goes properly brown, add a little copper sulphate and the dyebath should react and turn jet opaque black- stew the cordage in it on a low heat for an hour or so
walnut- very dark brown -any part of the tree, though the nut husks are best. boil like hell
dyers rocket/ weld- bright lemon yellow( icky neon green if you over cook it) this plant is fairly commen- check out roadsides. cut it up, slick it in a muslin bag and stew
woad-tricky- blue. (email me if you want o know and ill post it but it would take a while to re type it now)redberryfreak@hotmail.com
onion skins- pretty golden yellow onion skins, boil etc
nettles are a dye in their own right- yielding a colour known in tudor times as goose turd green
fishing nets were traditionally made of NETtle fibre hence the name nets
retting is best done in grotty stagnant stinky rainwater- there are more bacteria in there already to break down the stems. those dog brushes( like a flat wooden board with loads of short ish thin wire pins in it) work well for combing the fibre to get the pith/ other bits of unwanted stuff out- just like carding combs , but smaller and a hell of a lot cheaper.
good luck
There is one thing on your cordage. I would advice that you wet the pieces of bark and scrape off the coarse outer shell so you are left with the inner bark only. Makes for much higher quality string.
Braiding will give you a better feel of the fish as the string becomes "dead".
Have temperate water around when working with vegetable fibres, wetspinning (or braiding) gives a lot smoother and stronger result.
Good luck or should I say: Have patience. :) It takes some time to learn.
I'm sure I've read something about beeswax helping the cordage become stronger. Can't remember where though.
How well does nettle cordage keep? I made a couple of feet earlier in the summer and a few weeks later it was very dry and brittle
I'm sure I've read something about beeswax helping the cordage become stronger. Can't remember where though.
How well does nettle cordage keep? I made a couple of feet earlier in the summer and a few weeks later it was very dry and brittle
You probably left the coarse outer bark on. Scrape it off with your nail before using the fibres.
I doubt that beeswax will make it stronger, but probably more water-resistance and because of that: More rot-resisant.
I've just had a second go at producing nettle cordage, and I'm finding it difficult to get long fibres off the plant. They often peter-out or break when I go past a knot. I used fairly big ones, but not the biggest. Does that matter? Was Iｎｏｔ ｐｏｕｎｄｉｎｇ ｉｔ ｅｎｏｕｇｈ？
ｃｈｅｅｒｓ
hello all.
I had a go at making braided nettle string took for ever to do, and found it hard to keep it all the same size (which mine isnt :rolleyes: )
found the notes in this thread helpfull though so thanks.
wanted to put some pics on but im worse with computers than nettle string and thats sayin something :lmao:
I've just had a second go at producing nettle cordage, and I'm finding it difficult to get long fibres off the plant. They often peter-out or break when I go past a knot. I used fairly big ones, but not the biggest. Does that matter? Was Iｎｏｔ ｐｏｕｎｄｉｎｇ ｉｔ ｅｎｏｕｇｈ？
ｃｈｅｅｒｓ
How did you break down the fibres? I got better results by rolling the stem flat, rather than beating which seemed to weken the knot area.
P@ul
dommyracer
20-11-2006, 22:11
I find that rolling or pounding can destroy the fibres too much.
You can just squeeze the stems between thumb and finger till they flatten out. then run your thumbnail up the one side, open the whole lot out then separate the inside flesh from the outer.
billycan
21-11-2006, 08:30
I agree with dommy racer, i do exactly the same, nice and gently does it.
Some stems, especially late in the season require a great effort to squeeze flat. Especially at the joints. I pound the stalks with a dry stick on a smooth, living tree. Doesn't harm the fibers at all.
All I did was try to split the nettle down one side, but it wouldn't split straight and I ended up with pieces all tapering towards the ends. I pounded the fibres with a baton on a concrete floor to loosen the fibres from the inner part.
Maybe I just need practice!
PatrickM
22-11-2006, 17:29
A light tap with a smooth baton on a smooth anvil (large shore pebble) is all that is required, this does not damage the fibres at all.
Just boosting this thread to the front so I can find it and reference it more easily. Especially as for some reason the link has chopped the first post in half.
jdlenton
26-07-2007, 23:13
Wow not seen this thread for a while.
I have tried many new materials for cordage making since this thread and my technique has most definitely improved any questions please ask away
J*
Toadflax
04-11-2007, 07:51
After seeing a very good tutorial at the Wilderness Gathering this year, I finally got around to trying my own nettle cordage this weekend. Techniques I was shown look very similar to posts 1 and 14 in this thread and the result wasn't too bad, thought I suspect it is a bit late in the season for getting good raw material.
I gathered some nettles last weekend but they are all pretty woody by now and I didn't get around to doing anything with them until this weekend, so they had dried out rather a lot. Still, it was good to get some experience in stripping out the fibres from the stems and to lose the fear of being stung. For getting at the fibres, I was shown (and found it worked well for me) the method of simply running a thumbnail up one of the sides of the stem to split it, then flattening out the stem before breaking out the waste material.
As other people on the thread have commented, the basic technique of twisting is relatively straightforward, the skills that needs to be learned (and will come with practice) are keeping a consistent thickness and bringing new fibres in neatly.
Geoff
spiritofold
13-06-2008, 19:07
Anyone got more pics of their nettle cordage?
Im busy collecting and stripping nettles at the moment to try and make a fishing kit. I'd be gratefull for any pics showing how you join or splice the fibres together to make it all longer. I think of all the topics on here this has to be my favourite.
Any help appreciated folks!
Andy >>>>>------------------------------<>
spiritofold
16-06-2008, 11:51
Anyone able to help?
chickenofthewoods
16-06-2008, 13:00
This any help Andy?
http://www.arthurhaines.com/reverse-wrap-cord.htm
spiritofold
16-06-2008, 14:30
Blimey, didnt know you were still around!! :)
Hope all is well? Are you still on that other forum i used to frequent?
Cheers for the info, it just what i need. Need lots of practice cos i can see the trout round here breaking it easy.
Andy >>>>>------------------<>
chickenofthewoods
16-06-2008, 15:18
:lmao: Yep, still here (and there!) nice to see you're still around too. How's Lentil & the kids? Give 'em all a hug from us. :)
Have you spotted this post? I think it'll interest you http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=408569&postcount=1
spiritofold
16-06-2008, 15:40
Alls fine here, up to our necks in allotment work and me still acting like a caveman, life is pretty good!
Cheers for the headsup about that other post, i'll have a read.
Andy >>>>>-----------------------------<>
spiritofold
16-06-2008, 20:46
Please please please can someone else in the know show me how to splice these nettle fibres together?!? I cant get the join strong enough......
Cheers,
Andy >>>>>-----------------------<>
spiritofold
22-06-2008, 22:54
I'll take that as a no then.........
chickenofthewoods
23-06-2008, 00:13
Have you tried asking over on PaleoPlanet?
My inclination is to damp the threads and treat them in the same way as flax - damping helps the ends of each blended & overlapped bundle to join and 'stick' till twisted. Mind you, that's when using a spinning wheel or drop spindle, but I think the principle would be the same.
spiritofold
23-06-2008, 08:48
Looks like i'll have to ask elsewhere :rolleyes: I just thought there would still be people on here that were in the know.
Damping the fibres does seem to work better, makes it far more pliable. Through trial and error i've managed to make what i need. Leaving long tails for the splice seems to help,
as well as starting off with the longest possible nettle fibre.
Also, its killed my legs rolling the stuff, i now have neolithic knees, nettle rashes and no hair on my thighs.....
Thankyou for your input chickenofthewoods :You_Rock_
Andy >>>>>-----------------------------------<>
sandbender
23-06-2008, 10:36
This book...
Indian Fishing: Early Methods on the Northwest Coast
Hilary Stewart
ISBN 0295958030
http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/0295958030/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_all/103-5927211-2320630
http://www.yukoninfo.com/images/fishinhtools.gif
Is a fantastic resource for anyone interested in making cordage, hooks and other fishing equipment. The book is illustrated with hundreds of drawings and photographs, detailing the construction of hooks, lines, sinkers, lures, floats, clubs, spears, harpoons, nets, traps, rakes and gaffs etc.
At $19 from Amazon US it's a bargain
:)
spiritofold
23-06-2008, 17:27
Cheers for that, i'll try to get hold of a copy, reckon it could be usefull.
Most books i've got only show about making short lengths of cord, nothing about the nitty gritty of a 50' line. Same with online tutorials, they show a well made 12" piece of cordage, nothing clear about making decent strength splices. Through lots of trial and error i've got there though :)
Just got to find some decent thorns now to whip up some hooks.
Any help on this subject is much appreciated!
Andy >>>>>---------------------------------<>