View Full Version : Norwegian poncho/shelter.
My brother has just given me a Norwegian poncho/shelter, does anyone have any more details on its use and history. I see there are diagrams printed on it to show how they could be joined together but I have only got the one. How was it used for one person only?.
innocent bystander
21-05-2005, 15:34
Is that one of these?
http://www.jerven.no/
arctic hobo
21-05-2005, 18:32
Is that one of these?
http://www.jerven.no/
If it is (a Fjellduken) then it's a wonderful bit of kit. Every outdoorsman in Norway (well almost) owns one, and I'd highly recommend them. The camouflaged version, designed as it is for Norwegian gneiss is truly superb - play tricks on your mates by hiding 6 feet away and they won't see you :D
They're pricey however. If you could give me more info then I can tell you what it is :)
innocent bystander
21-05-2005, 18:49
Can you get them online anywhere ?
arctic hobo
21-05-2005, 19:44
Can you get them online anywhere ?
No, unfortunately. Jerven sell them on their site, but it is delivered to a Norwegian address using a system where you pay when you receive it. There are no stockists overseas, which is a great pity! I do not own one (partly because they cost about 85 quid), but I will buy one sometime in the near future - at least, it's an excuse for a weekend break! :D
I can't really see from the picture and the script is all Norwegian to me. It is a piece of cotton like fabric with eyelets, pegging points and grommet holes around the perimeter it is shaped like two triangles put together (lozenge). There is a hole for the head to go through which can be securely buttoned up. I can see how it is used for a poncho cape but how is it used as a shelter?.
It has got writing on it "norskjellige sammensetninger av teltduken" that may not be correct as it is very worn.
Fenlander
22-05-2005, 11:01
Hi Nick,
Ran this through an online translater......
"norskjellige sammensetninger" - was not recognised but....
"av teltduken" - means "at the canvas" :D
anthonyyy
22-05-2005, 11:33
The " Fjelltelt" looks pretty interesting too.
http://www.jerven.no/
It sounds a lot like the shelter that some units in the swedsh army used before. I could not find a good picture of it but here are one that shows you two have been set up.
http://www.utsidan.se/bild.asp?ID=365
arctic hobo
22-05-2005, 13:41
I can't really see from the picture and the script is all Norwegian to me. It is a piece of cotton like fabric with eyelets, pegging points and grommet holes around the perimeter it is shaped like two triangles put together (lozenge). There is a hole for the head to go through which can be securely buttoned up. I can see how it is used for a poncho cape but how is it used as a shelter?.
It has got writing on it "norskjellige sammensetninger av teltduken" that may not be correct as it is very worn.
Can't say I know it. The writing I don't think is quite right - at least I've never heard "jellige" before, and neither has my dictionary - but the rest I can say means it's made of canvas (literally "tent-cloth"). Is there any more writing?
"norsk*ellige sammense*ninger av teltduken"
No more writing but I've shown the letters that are least recognisable as stars.
Below this inscription are the diagrams and direction for 16, 12, 8, 4, mannstelt which presumably means number man tent and jensehi md2 , md 1.
arctic hobo
22-05-2005, 16:36
Aside from "norsk" obviously meaning Norwegian, I can't get that first word. Anyway, it doesn't matter - I'd agree with Johan that it's like the picture he posted. Beyond that I just don't know :confused:
ChrisKavanaugh
22-05-2005, 17:14
You have a Zeltbahn. This was an old italian design adopted and popularised by Germany in 1920, and like the G.I. poncho found it's way into many european armies and patterns. They can be connected to make unit tents and worn in different configurations. www.choiquehobbies.com.ar/revista01/html/rev/zeltbhane.htm shows the basic unit, ways to wear one and several german bushcrafters at an old meetup :rolleyes: www.wephaus.com usually has a few for sale over here.
innocent bystander
22-05-2005, 18:32
Ah, but isn't the zelt' found only in a triangle shape ? And doesn't have slots for the 'and's to go through ?? :confused: Same principle, either way - stick a few together to make bigger tent .....
"norsk*ellige sammense*ninger av teltduken"
No more writing but I've shown the letters that are least recognisable as stars.
Below this inscription are the diagrams and direction for 16, 12, 8, 4, mannstelt which presumably means number man tent and jensehi md2 , md 1.
It means something like "diffrent way to put together the shelter" and numbers means that you can make 4-16 man tent.
You have a Zeltbahn. This was an old italian design adopted and popularised by Germany in 1920, and like the G.I. poncho found it's way into many european armies and patterns. They can be connected to make unit tents and worn in different configurations. www.choiquehobbies.com.ar/revista01/html/rev/zeltbhane.htm shows the basic unit, ways to wear one and several german bushcrafters at an old meetup :rolleyes: www.wephaus.com usually has a few for sale over here.
That link was very interesting, I know that the swedish army has been using this configuration since ww2 until just a few years ago. The only thing that has changed during the years was material from canvas to plastic.
arctic hobo
22-05-2005, 19:49
You have a Zeltbahn. This was an old italian design adopted and popularised by Germany in 1920, and like the G.I. poncho found it's way into many european armies and patterns. They can be connected to make unit tents and worn in different configurations. www.choiquehobbies.com.ar/revista01/html/rev/zeltbhane.htm shows the basic unit, ways to wear one and several german bushcrafters at an old meetup :rolleyes: www.wephaus.com usually has a few for sale over here.
Great link Chris, looks like a dead simple but dead effective bit of kit :cool:
I was aware of the German Zeltbahn and a Zeltbahn site did mention that the Norwegians had a lozenge shaped shelter cloth but that was as far as it went. The use for one seems restricted for one. I just thought that someone out there might know a little about the use of this shape of cloth. I couldn't see the picture from Viking before as I was at work and pictures are rather dim. However I have seen it now and I have also had a chance to play with various configurations. It could be a fine bit of kit but a little short of protection for me 6 foot 4 inches tall. Thanks to all who have responded.
Nick P
ChrisKavanaugh
23-05-2005, 04:10
I missed your post about it's lozenge shape :o Are you sure it isn't two unfinished zelbahns :p Our mainpage @ www.equipped.org has a article on various startegies for folding and using tarps. Get yourself some stiff paper, duplicate your tarp in miniature and play with it.
Tor helge
23-05-2005, 09:22
Kimboko
First, Hi to all as this is my first post.
The "poncho you have are a norwegian "Zeltbahn". They are still in use in the norwegian army, I think, at least in the national guard.
The most common configurations are 5 and 7 pieces toghether (a infantery squad consists of 7 men).
When I was doing service as a squad leader (1989) we had a tent made of 10 tarps as the old recoilless gun squad had 10 soldiers (84mm RFK/ Carl Gustav). The tent was heavy (15 kilos) when dry and even heavier when wet, I know, I carried the damn thing :) .
We never used the tarp as a singel piece shelter and the tents were buttoned up in camp. No one wants to button a tent in winter, better to have it premade.
They were originally designed for single use though. The tarp would be carried rolled together on the old type combat ruck (I`ve seen pics of it on this forums). Inside the ruck there was 2 small tent poles (wood) and 3 tent pegs.
The tent pole goes trough the brass grommet and the 3 tent pegs in the corners now on the ground. I`ve never tried it, but I have several of these tarps and the old combat ruck, and I will try it and send some pics later.
Tor Helge
Tor Helge
You are a star.
You have confirmed what I worked out last night..... the obtuse angle and two sides pegged to the ground and a pole on the other obtuse angle and you have a super shelter. I feel a bit exposed lying in it but I am quite tall.
Pegged the other way it looks like a piece of art!! but you can make a coffin shape if you use two short poles fixed to a couple of the button holes. It would be good to see some pictures.
Nick P
arctic hobo
23-05-2005, 17:13
Welcome to BCUK Tor, why don't you introduce yourself on the Introductions & Welcomes thread :)
Tor helge
28-05-2005, 08:17
Kimboko
Sorry it took so long but I`ve been away at work all week. But here are the pics of a norwegian army tent tarp as a one man shelter.
First two pics of the battle ruck with tarp attaced and the tent poles (never used before).
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid170/p881066e599c0a61be801566246d82 cd4/f3f572f5.jpg
Then two of the shelter. I have to add (once again) that we never used the tarp in this manner. I only heard in boot camp that this was the supposed setup.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid170/p9a104a1b339d5fe1986a44c90548d c7e/f3f572be.jpg
On an exercise we had two of the men forming a listening post ahead of our position using a shelter made of two tarps. They even used an optimus inside (it was winter).
Tor
Moonraker
28-05-2005, 11:30
Welcome to the forum Tor :)
Great photos thanks for posting :) Always useful to see what bits of army kit are used for. Seems quite a sensible shape as you only use one pole and three peg to erect it. and it would reflect back any heat from a fire, although it is quite low.
We used canvas tent sheets back in the late 80s during our winter exercises in Norway.
Here is an extract from a book showing how they were used, although it took real skill to live in them for any length of time, they are very cramped but were warm.
http://img98.echo.cx/img98/1329/tentsheet14vm.jpg
http://img98.echo.cx/img98/5246/tentsheet25pm.jpg
Tor helge
29-05-2005, 22:46
We used canvas tent sheets back in the late 80s during our winter exercises in Norway.
Here is an extract from a book showing how they were used, although it took real skill to live in them for any length of time, they are very cramped but were warm.
http://img98.echo.cx/img98/1329/tentsheet14vm.jpg
http://img98.echo.cx/img98/5246/tentsheet25pm.jpg
We never use the 5 man tent with the layout as shown in the book. We always use a turned top tarp ( tarp nr.4 on the pic is rotated 180 deg.).
That way we sleep like they do in the 7 man layout. Much more convenient.
Tor
Excellent information thank you all so much.
Having tried it out over the weekend It would be good if I could get another one or three so I can make up a bigger tent any body seen any of them for sale anywhere?.
My brother has now found another of these tent sheets on the local fell. I now have two, at least I can use them as a tent!
Does anybody know if there any careless Norwegian army or militia units operating in Lancashire?
Considering that now two have been lost I think it more likely that its a School running Combined Cadet Force exercises with ex. Norwegian army kit, does anyone have any other ideas or know of any likely Schools in the Clitheroe area?.
Curious, Nick.