View Full Version : Parachute fabric advice
Help!
Does anyone know about what parachutes are actually made from?
Is it possible to buy a large one that has been treated to be fire retardant?
Is anyone able to recommend a supplier who will provide documentation of the above to cover me for Health & Safety and Risk Assessments for Public Liability Insurance?
I have a brilliant idea for a multi craft activity at Tree in the Park later this year, I've even sold the idea to the organisers and they've agreed a good budget and funds for seven of us to work the weekend, but now there are worries that with >30,000 people visiting I have to have the same H & S cover as if it were a marquee :confused: :eek:
I *so* don't want to have to make the 'parachute' too :(
Cheers,
Toddy
Hi Toddy
From what i can remember from when i did my jumps course in the army,parachutes are made from nylon but you may be able to buy a ww2 silk one but apparently these are quite rare.
As for fire proofing you might be able to have it sprayed with a fire retardent substance as nylon is definetly not fire resistent.
Maybe you could look up suppliers of tools and toys to children with special needs as they use them a lot as part of their therapy.(maybe they could advice you on safety issues).
Hope this helps mate.
Hi Toddy
Maybe you could look up suppliers of tools and toys to children with special needs as they use them a lot as part of their therapy.(maybe they could advice you on safety issues).
Hope this helps mate.
Now that's an excellent idea, thank you :)
Cheers,
Toddy
greg2935
21-05-2005, 00:11
Not quite sure now, they used to be made from silk circa world war 2, think they now are made from a plastic/nylon type material. Parachutes are flammable but because the material is so thin it needs to be rolled up to catch fire usually.
You can get them from army surplus stores. Not sure about public liability, they tend to be really finicky this day and age.
....... Not sure about public liability, they tend to be really finicky this day and age.
You're not joking. I've been sent a risk assessment, that is15 pages long, to complete before I get the final go ahead :( It's not even as though there'll be a naked flame near it either. Seems the biggest risk is smokers :rolleyes: though why they would want to try a parachute is beyond me. :confused:
Thanks for the info, I did wonder how one would catch.
Cheers,
Toddy
try speaking to some of your local schools about there risk assessments for using parachutes.Another thing is to make sure that you take out public liability insurance, because a friend of mine in the army once hired a bouncy castle for his sons birthday party and one of the kids fell off and broke his fema :eek:
To make matters worse his broken fema cut his femoral artery and the poor kid almost bled to death :(
His parents tried to sue my mate but luckily he escaped prosecution because he was the one who administered life saving first aid :)
Don't mean to be a spoil sport but unfortunatly we live in a compensation culture and you need to protect yourself.
Don't mean to be a spoil sport but unfortunatly we live in a compensation culture and you need to protect yourself.
It really has gotten ridiculous. I have to provide proof that I carry £5,000,000 of public liability insurance just to do a days work demonstrating natural dyes (cold, not even hot water!), spinning and weaving.
I can see where the Rangers are coming from with the marquee/parachute thing, but it's touch excessive.
Thanks for the help,
Cheers,
Toddy
I once used a lighter to trim a few loose threads from the inner (non proofed) of my nylon backpacking tent. I was expecting the threads to shrivel up but they burnt and the flame then caught on more threads. I put out the flame but within those few seconds I had a hole in my tent.
I would have thought that once alight a parachute draped like a teepee would burn very quickly.
Motorbike Man
21-05-2005, 08:57
Hi Toddy,
In the shop where I work, all of our display materials for the window dressing have to be fire proof and it's a real pain. A product that we had recomended to us is MSL Firecheck (http://www.mslfirecheck.com/) Luckily it's never been put to the test, but it's for use on synthetic as well as natural materials and a little really does go a long way.
EDIT - Just been flicking throught the website and they say not to use it on rip-stop nylon. Don't know if this will be an issue regarding 'chutes, but they do say to get in touch with them if you need further advice
greg2935
21-05-2005, 09:29
I've seen RM use a parachute as a giant tent and lighting a communal fire underneath, sparks tended to burn small holes in the material but it did not catch fire (which I was quite surprised about), I do not know if he used a fire retardent though, and tent material is very thin, far thinner than tent material. It is actually explained in p135 of his essential bushcraft book, although it does not mention fire, I guess to limit his own liability, the publishers lawyers would never allow something like that to be published. Ironically, I was in the reenactment movement for some years, and public liability insurance skyrocketed after somone lost his eye when hit by some wadding a flintlock discharge. We were dark-ages (and therefore did not need black powder etc) but our premiums doubled overnight!
It really has gotten ridiculous. I have to provide proof that I carry £5,000,000 of public liability insurance Toddy
As others have mentioned, it's absolutely in your interest to be insured, regardless of what your hosts may demand.
Years of re-enactment taught me there is NO LIMIT to how apparently innocuous an item can be used by the public to achieve self-harm, nor to the degree to which they will claim you are responsible.
First we watched the weapons.
Then we learned to watch the tools, too.
Then the fires
Then anything smaller than a human orifice :eek:
Then we just heaped all the kit in a pile and stood guard over it constantly.
Ho hum. Have a good time :D
Jim.
The public liability issue I've dealt with simply because if I don't, I can't work. As members of the great G.P. we complain about events being so expensive, but in view of underwriting costs to those who work the events, it's hardly surprising. What is going to happen is that the various organisers are going to find exhibitors walking with their feet, and saying," We can't justify this expense, you will have to provide the cover for the event as a whole." The insurance companies won't like that though, it'll cut their premiums.
If I'm asked to 'fireproof' a garment, well it's really more of a spark proofing, I wash it in alum. It's only really suitable for rugs, cloaks, long skirts, shirts and trews worn near open fires. I must do some testing and see just how effective it is.
Thanks for the link Jon, might be the way will have to go if I end up making the 'roof' myself.
Cheers everyone,
Toddy...'xhausted, sunburnt, drookit....Good Day though :D
when I worked as a psychiatric nurse in the wards, the OT (dept occupational therapy ) used parachutes as a therapy tool.The elderly guys in my ward enjoyed them-the colours ,senations etc.These chutes were garishly colured and about the same diameter(I think) as 35 feet jumping chutes-they must have had H&S approval.Try the ot depts at your local hospital-Hartwood or Hairmyres is your nearest.I think the matieral is called 'parasilk', dunno if its fireproof .
talking of parachutes, i foolishly missed an opportunity to get large parachutes extra cheap when my local surplus shop closed down. Now i can not get them anywhere, and I need one, any suggestions would be apprieciated.
needs to be in a fair condition, want to convert it into a teepee.
try meanandgreen.com and search for parachute.
59.95 for a 28 panel canopy which is unissued which i think means its in good nick :)
Moonraker
23-05-2005, 18:26
talking of parachutes, i foolishly missed an opportunity to get large parachutes extra cheap when my local surplus shop closed down. Now i can not get them anywhere, and I need one, any suggestions would be apprieciated.Search and ye shall find :D
Try this appropriately named thread:
Parachute (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=2564)
maverick
24-05-2005, 20:17
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11744&item=5976940566&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW ;)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11744&item=5976940566&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW ;)
Tempting, so tempting.....but I need a wider one if possible. 8m + if I can get it.
Does that not look like a useful thing though? I'm running out of room for all my toys :(
Cheers,
Toddy
:D :D I got my parachute!
35' diameter and a good olive green with mesh 'windows'.
Now then, all you clever people who've done this before....how on Earth do I hang it up :confused: ??????
The central hole is about 50cms in diameter and has 15cms cut off lengths of paracord still sticking up from the rim.
I found fire retardant wash-in stuff and spray (Thanks MBM) but it's going to cost me about £80 for enough to treat the entire thing using it. :( Not going there, so I'm going to do an alum wash with a fabric showerproofing agent and there'll be no fires in, around or nearby when the 'chute is used (well at least for the public event).
I've got extra fabric and I'll make panels to cover the mesh windows. I'm tempted to turn it into a tipi, but suspect that might be a wintertime project for when things quieten down.
Any advice gratefully received.
Might like to talk about suitable stoves with appropriate spark catchers/flues too for later on.
Cheers,
Toddy
Toddy, where did you get it and how much?
I got the hammock sorted by the way, I reclycled an old parasilk hammock that was really narrow, opened it out so that it was two panels wide and tied it thai hammock stylee. I wouldn't mind one for a shelter though!!
Toddy, where did you get it and how much?
I got the hammock sorted by the way, I reclycled an old parasilk hammock that was really narrow, opened it out so that it was two panels wide and tied it thai hammock stylee. I wouldn't mind one for a shelter though!!
:D Friend of a friend, £20 :D Yeh, that's a Cheesy Grin!
I was wondering about the hammock and the amount of fabric in the parachute.
I think that normally the 'chutes cost about £30; I'll ask if they're available.
It's in excellent condition and that's why I wondered about the tipi idea. No idea how to set it up; wondered about a defunct telegraph pole :confused: , then thought about maybe eleven thinner poles since there are 22 panels in the parachute and find someway of tying the 'ring' to them. A yurt has a central ring, called the eye of heaven, that provides a stable fixing for all of the poles, maybe that could be created. Could line it with the stuff that bullet proof vests are made from (can't recall the name just now) to provide a safe flue exit from a stove.
HWMBLT just shook his head and poured another coffee :rolleyes:
Cheers,
Toddy
Motorbike Man
31-07-2005, 23:49
:D Friend of a friend, £20 :D Yeh, that's a Cheesy Grin!
I was wondering about the hammock and the amount of fabric in the parachute.
I think that normally the 'chutes cost about £30; I'll ask if they're available.
It's in excellent condition and that's why I wondered about the tipi idea. No idea how to set it up; wondered about a defunct telegraph pole :confused: , then thought about maybe eleven thinner poles since there are 22 panels in the parachute and find someway of tying the 'ring' to them. A yurt has a central ring, called the eye of heaven, that provides a stable fixing for all of the poles, maybe that could be created. Could line it with the stuff that bullet proof vests are made from (can't recall the name just now) to provide a safe flue exit from a stove.
HWMBLT just shook his head and poured another coffee :rolleyes:
Cheers,
Toddy
What about using a telescopic fishing pole as a centre pole and stitching some loops for peg elastics round the edge of the parachute?
I've been searching for an old thread where somebody posted pictures of their 'chute put up. I can't find it, but I'll try to describe it as I remember it.
It was tied up at the centre from an overhanging branch and simply pegged out around its circumference, but instead of pegging it straight down all the way round, a section at the front had long lines so that the front was more open. I believe a forked stick was the used to push the entrance up. It was pegged directly to the ground around the rest of the 'chute, which I suppose stops a draught blowing through. I say experiment and have fun doing so.
I'm coming back to the UK in a week or so, so I'll keep an eye out in the surplus stores whilst I'm over!
Edit: I'm not sure what you mean about the ring, but if you mean the top centre of the 'chute, then maybe you could tie in lengths of paracord to create a 'spiders web' and the centre could hold a simple wooden ring from a curtain rail. All you need then is a long straightish wooden pole that can be sourced in most woodland areas, or as I say, tie it from an overhanging branch. If you wanted a long pole that you could use whenever, try looking in a caravan shop for the awning poles. You can get ones that are telescopic, they are rather heavy, but if you are driving and pitching it shouldn't be a problem.
zackerty
01-08-2005, 02:53
Spamel... :)
I had a 6 gore set up on British Blades...is that what you might be remembering?
Probably about January this year?
Ogri the trog
01-08-2005, 04:12
[QUOTE=Toddy...wondered about a defunct telegraph pole :confused: , then thought about maybe eleven thinner poles since there are 22 panels in the parachute and find someway of tying the 'ring' to them. A yurt has a central ring, called the eye of heaven, that provides a stable fixing for all of the poles, maybe that could be created. Could line it with the stuff that bullet proof vests are made from (can't recall the name just now) to provide a safe flue exit from a stove.
Cheers,
Toddy[/QUOTE]
Toddy,
Old telegraph poles are very heavy and ooze oil/tar in hot weather, not to mention filthy to handle, (I cadged some recently as gate posts, they're from 1958 and still dripping tar :eek: ). The scout style "pioneering poles" might be better, certainly lighter being pine. A tripod of poles (say 6 foot circle-ish) around the central stove could even serve as a safety barrier inside the tipi to stop folks burning themselves.
That'll be kevlar for the flue exit ;)
ATB
Ogri the trog
zackerty
01-08-2005, 05:15
"Could line it with the stuff that bullet proof vests are made from (can't recall the name just now) to provide a safe flue exit from a stove"..
Kevlar 49... :)
Spamel... :)
I had a 6 gore set up on British Blades...is that what you might be remembering?
Probably about January this year?
Possibly, I've looked but can't find it. I found this site (http://www.highadventureoec.co.uk/bush.htm) whilst I was on Amazon that may be of interest to people, the reason I posted it here though is because if you go to Bushcraft, it opens another page and there is a picture of a parachte put up. Hope this helps!
Hi Toddy
You could line the opening with an asbestos fire blanket( like they have in kitchens)
They sell them at screwfix under workplace safety for about 13 quid.
As for a centre pole you could use a 4*4 post with the edges rounded over (12 foot or more) or even a couple of 4 inch waste pipes coupled together.
Hope that is of help :)
zackerty
02-08-2005, 00:27
Spamel
I have re-read your post, and my pics do not line up with your description. I had the top tied to a tree, but only 6 panels,... at 45°, pegged to the ground...