PDA

View Full Version : Old, but good...



Doc
29-07-2010, 23:24
Last week I went to buy a mountain bike for my middle son. The man at the bike shop suggested I come back in a few weeks, when the 2011 models would be available. The 2010 versions are apparently now obsolete.

We are constantly pressured to buy the latest improved product. Perhaps for technological items like computers the concept might be valid - two years ago I bought an Elecraft K3 ham radio transceiver, which at the time had the best receiver in the world, in terms of technical specification. Today it is the third best.

Technology moves on, and certainly in some cases, new is better. I would not swap my modern LED torch for an inefficient, less bright, less reliable torch with an incandescent bulb. But are we sometimes being fooled by marketing hype? Can you enjoy the outdoors with obsolete kit? Let’s look at some gear that is old, but good.


First up, the Marbles matchcase.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/DSCF1848.jpg


I know this design is 110 years old, because the patent date of 1900 is engraved on the base. This particular example is ‘only’ 40 years old or so. It is an elegant design, as you cannot lose the captive lid, and it is truly waterproof - I have fallen out of my canoe with it, and it has not failed me. Cal Rutstrum recommended it in The New Way of the Wilderness fifty years ago and I recommend it today. You can buy Chinese copies, but a genuine used Marbles from US eBay won’t cost you much more, and is a potent symbol of outdoor life.



Next, the BSA CF2 Centrefire rifle

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/DSCF1847-1.jpg


This is around 35 years old, but is based on the old BSA Monarchs and Majestics of the 1950s/1960s, as used by the Forestry Commission for deer control in those days- they replaced the Lee Enfield in this role. (The basic design of the BSA is of course the century old Mauser bolt action!)
This example is in .270 Winchester calibre - many professionals prefer this calibre for Red deer, just as Col Townsend Whelan was favouring it in the 1920s/30s). The makers tag advised me that it would shoot a 1.5 inch group at 100 yards- respectable, though not stunning. Maybe ammunition has improved since the 1970s, but today it reliably shoots a 0.75 inch group at 100 metres- so we have a £200 ‘obsolete’ British rifle that easily matches the modern foreign equivalents at four times the price.



Now, the classic smallbore rifle - the Czech CZ 452 in .22 Long Rifle Calibre

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/DSCF1846.jpg


This example is current production, only three years old. But it is mechanically virtually identical to it’s predecessor, the BRNO Model 1, which was first made in 1943 as a smallbore copy of the German Mauser 98K rifle, as used by Hitler’s stormtroopers. It has been a favourite of British sportsmen and gamekeepers for decades. More money will buy you a prettier rifle, but not a more accurate one. On a still day, it will shoot 0.5 inch groups at 50 metres.




Next, the BSA Airsporter

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/DSCF1845.jpg

Well, what can I say? First made, I think, in 1946. This is an ’S’ model from 25 years ago. The classic British sporting air rifle. It used to shoot one inch groups at 25m with near legal limit power. I fear it now needs a service, but parts are still available.



Now let’s skip over the Atlantic to the US: the Marbles ‘Hunter’ pin on compass

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/DSCF1844.jpg

Another find from US eBay, 40 to 50 years old. Not suitable for precise bearings, but as a quick orientation it is excellent. The jewelled bearings still work smoothly after half a century.



Moving north to Canada, we have the Grohmann/Russell Belt Knife:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/DSCF1842.jpg


This example is only a few year old, but it has been in continuous production since 1957. It’s antecedents may be even older. Hunters and trappers from Canada had input into the design -it’s sometimes called a ‘Yukon knife’. I slightly prefer the Grohmann #4 ‘Boat knife which is quite similar. Long before Ray Mears was born, this tool rode on the hip of serious outdoorsmen across the Canadian wilderness.



South again, to Oregon: the Pendleton wool shirt:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/DSCF1839.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/DSCF1841.jpg

Pendleton Woollen Mills in Oregon has been making Indian trade blankets since 1909. Their outdoors plaid shirts are much more modern, having only been in production since 1924.
Although stupidly expensive if bought new, they are an excellent second hand buy (US eBay again) as they last almost forever- I have one that is forty years old. Thinner than a Swanndri, and therefore more versatile. Having suffered bleeding nipples from British army woollen shirts, I was surprised to find them very comfy against the skin. I guess forty years of washing makes them softer.

Staying in the US - the Bear Tigercat recurve bow:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/DSCF1838.jpg

Made in 1968, and intended for bow hunting. Legendary outdoorsman Fred Bear founded the Bear Archery company, and sold many laminated glass/maple recurve bows like this. In the 1970s the compound bow came along, and American bowhunters ditched their recurve bows. Now they are becoming collectable. It still shoots great after 42 years.


Lastly, from that worker’s paradise- the Democratic People’s Republic of East Germany- the Zeiss Jena8x30 binoculars.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/DSCF1837.jpg

These look like the wartime Zeiss binoculars but are 8x30, not 6x30, and have multi layer coatings which greatly improve brightness. They are porroprism design, which avoids the phase errors which affected early roof prism binoculars. The East Germans sold many pairs in the 1960s-1980s and even today they perform respectably, and are very lightweight. Not armoured, but the design is intrinsically robust. The risk in buying is that they may have lens scratches, lens fungus, miscollimation, or may be a Japanese fake. However, if you look carefully, you can get a good pair with case for £40 or so. Older versions with single layer lens coatings are not quite as good. The Russians made copies which go for much lower prices, but are nevertheless high quality in optical terms.

So there we go. Don’t be fooled by the advertising men. The older gear may be less glossy, heavier, and nowadays unfashionable. But it lasts, and still works as well today as it did in the past.

Robbi
30-07-2010, 00:03
spot on post !

spiritwalker
30-07-2010, 07:34
to me something is only obsolete if its broken and you cant get it fixed anymore, but i suppose some modern things offer great improvements in terms of weight reduction. Nice post some great looking gear there. Also whats funny is currently we are in the modern ultralight gear phase but things tend to come full circle you will see a retro thing pop back up again soon when it comes to gear hopefully then ill be in with the crowd lol. I use a mixture of good old trusted gear and modern toys

robin wood
30-07-2010, 07:49
I really enjoyed your list there. Lovely stuff. Of course one of the bad things about this obsession with new stuff is that it makes us all buy too much stuff by increasing our wants instead of making do and being happy with what we have. Now you have just managed to do the same by making me want a marbles match box and compass.

johnboy
30-07-2010, 07:56
Proper Ice Axes...

Fashion often dictates a short technical axe is used on moderate winter terrain with folk either not using the axe correctly or bent over double...

What you need is a Proper length tool and what could be better than this Grivel.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/johnsnz/Snow%20Caving/DSCF0077.jpg

Decent heavy head which helps with cutting steps. Wooden shaft which is insulated to the touch and slides into snowpack with minimum effort. Far better for most things than something with a banana recuve pick in dayglow pink...

Smoke sticks....

The Mauser action weather cock on opening or cock on closing is all good... IMHO Swedish mausers are some of the nicest a decent action coupled to a very good calibre in 6.5x55

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/johnsnz/DSCF0016-1.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/johnsnz/DSCF0017-1.jpg

Made in 1915 as a full length rifle and shortend to a carbine around ww2 and still putting a round down range accurately in 2010...


Getting lost....

GPS has of course revolutionised ease of navigation it seems everything has a GPS in it these days..

However a decent compass was and still is a trusty reliable friend in the backcountry. Non more so than the British army Prismatic..

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/johnsnz/p1010078-1.jpg

Accurate, sturdy, reliable....

Power is nothing without control...

Finally if you believe the marketing man multi fuel stoves are a wonder of the modern age. Optimus thought so and adapted the classic 111 into a multifuel stove with the added advantage of a silent burner... So rather then a stove that sounds like a F4 on reheat you have a whisper quiet burner perfect for communal cooking in a hut tent or snowcave....

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/johnsnz/P1010119.jpg

Powerful and controlable a prefect stove for most outdoor applications...

These are my picks....

Radix lecti
30-07-2010, 08:08
Great thread Doc, if it still works why not use it,i have a 60yr old rucksack, its great also my air rifle is about 20yrs old its fine.As for your marbles match case i still have a m.o.d matchcase dated 1972 made out of bakelite plastic,waterproof and is in the bottom of my pack. Cheers
Darren

Matt.S
30-07-2010, 08:37
Weihrauch HW35
A no-frills break-barrel air-rifle. The design is 60 years old, the trigger over 100. It has a very secure breech-locking lever and does what it says on the tin.
http://www.weihrauch-sport.de/bilder/b_produkte/b_weitschussluftgewehre/original/HW35.jpg

Swiss Army Knife
Needs no introduction. The one-spring-two-blades mechanism has been around since 1896.
http://www.freewebs.com/depaul56/Victorinox%201.6795%20SwissCha mp.gif

nuggets
30-07-2010, 08:44
i had the pleasure of using one of them mauser,s while in alaska a month ago they sure are built to last !!:)

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p303/nuggets_photo/alaska/97.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p303/nuggets_photo/alaska/99.jpg

Doc
30-07-2010, 08:44
Good stuff- it's nice to see I'm not the only one with an outfit out of Antiques Roadshow.

Interesting about the Swedish Mauser - from reading the shooting forums/magazines it seems that 6.5x55 Swedish is becoming increasingly popular in the UK as an all-round deer calibre with reasonably low recoil. In Scandinavia it has long been popular.

johnboy
30-07-2010, 09:12
Interesting about the Swedish Mauser - from reading the shooting forums/magazines it seems that 6.5x55 Swedish is becoming increasingly popular in the UK as an all-round deer calibre with reasonably low recoil. In Scandinavia it has long been popular.

Tis a joy to shoot accurate and with enough 'knock down' power for any game animal you might find in NZ... My Mauser I think is commonly known in shooting circles as a M96/38 as it started life as a M1896 long rifle and became a M1938 carbine at some point.. The Swedish army converted a lot of M1896's to Carbine length around ww2 IIRC..

Some other oldie's but goodies in regular use here in NZ are....

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/johnsnz/optimus00andkettle.jpg

Optimus 00 1 pint Kerosene stove and Trangia kettle combo...

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/johnsnz/DSCF2231.jpg

Hallmark 'Junior' frame pack.. In 'you will not loose me' orange...

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/johnsnz/P1010005-2.jpg

Phoneix 'Phreak' 2 man A frame tent.... A 1980's classic....

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/johnsnz/DSCF2076.jpg

A nasty old Optimus Lantern.... just look at it old tat....

Ah another old primus Stove...This one has it's own pot set...A sort of early jetboil... though clearly not as cool...

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/johnsnz/DSCF1983.jpg

I'll have to give the shed a clear out...

Twodogs
30-07-2010, 09:58
Phoneix 'Phreak' wow thats a blast from the past ...miss mine still
Twodogs

Matt.S
30-07-2010, 10:13
Filson Cruiser jackets
Available in wool, double wool or tin-cloth (heavy duty waxed cotton) these have hardly changed since 1914. I love my two! Not cheap to buy new (or even second hand) but their use is measured in lifetimes rather than seasons. Not ultralightweight but they are tough as nails, practical, and just keep on working.
http://fil.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pFILSON1-2230805dt.jpg
http://fil.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pFILSON1-5173627dt.jpg

My mate Tom displaying the flat cap, the Barbour jacket and the enamel mug.
http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy134/matt_s_87/CIMG0390.jpg

QDanT
30-07-2010, 13:21
Proper Ice Axes...
What you need is a Proper length tool and what could be better than this Grivel.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/johnsnz/Snow%20Caving/DSCF0077.jpg
...
How about :-
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j274/QDanT/1iceaxe.jpg
Brades 1943 ^
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j274/QDanT/2iceaxe.jpg
£5 from Stockport Arms Fair a good few years ago. Very rarely enough snow here, but had it out this last winter
cheers Danny

Bush_Man
30-07-2010, 16:37
Loved that shirt. Do you know any place in the Uk or other EU country that sells those beauties?

Harvestman
30-07-2010, 17:47
Can we add the scandi knife to this list? Thats an old bit of kit that has been around a while, and still seems to work moderately well.

big_swede
30-07-2010, 20:40
Hey, I used to own a Mauser in 6.5x55 a long time ago. It's legal for moose here. And when I lived on Svalbard I had a mauser carbine of german manufacture (marked with zee reichs adler of zee whermacht) in .30-06. I loved them both, although the swedish one was a little better ;)

I would a mora to the list. Red wooden handle of course. And an Iceland sweater knitted from real Icelandic woolen yarn.

Doc
30-07-2010, 20:43
Can we add the scandi knife to this list? Thats an old bit of kit that has been around a while, and still seems to work moderately well.

A fair comment. I would have liked to have included an antique Finnish puukko but the nearest I have is a modern Marttinni Lynx - the original design of which goes back to the 1920s IIRC.

The other practical antique Scandinavian knife is the folding Barrel knife from Sweden - Wayland has one and I covet it. Unfortunately they are in demand from collectors and are expensive, and as it locks it's not an everyday carry choice. But they are beautifully made.

Bush man- regarding the Pendleton shirts: buying a new one is difficult. Some UK retailers stock their cotton shirts (prices go up to £120:yikes:)), but I don't know of anyone that sells the woollen shirts new.

All is not lost. Used Pendleton wool shirts are readily available in a wide choice of tartans on international ebay. I bought three this way - it was something like £10-£20 each, delivered. Do not be put off buying used - they last incredibly well, and all the sellers I used said they would be freshly cleaned, and they were true to their word.

Some are marked washable, others dry clean. You can wash the dry clean ones, but expect some shrinkage. The washable type do not shrink.

Do not expect Swanndri type insulation - these are shirts, not a mid layer. Of course they are still warmer than a cotton shirt, and hugely preferable in cold wet conditions. As they say, 'cotton kills'.

Laurentius
30-07-2010, 21:49
You'll not beat the Zeiss binocs for quality, I have an 8 x 30 Zeiss monocular, but then binoculars are a bit superflous to me being like Odin only one eyed.

johnboy
31-07-2010, 07:26
And when I lived on Svalbard I had a mauser carbine of german manufacture (marked with zee reichs adler of zee whermacht) in .30-06.

IIRC the Norwegian Army was left with a heap of Kar 98's at the end of WW2 a lot of these were rechambered for .30-06 so perhaps yours was one of those... Husquvarna .30-06's are around here in NZ I take a look at them from time to time...


How about :-
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j274/QDanT/1iceaxe.jpg
Brades 1943 ^
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j274/QDanT/2iceaxe.jpg
£5 from Stockport Arms Fair a good few years ago. Very rarely enough snow here, but had it out this last winter
cheers Danny

Nice Ice axe... Complete with WD crows foot...

you need a A frame bergen and some snow whites to go with that...

Cheers

John

Highbinder
31-07-2010, 14:22
Not necessarily bushcraft but IMO deserves a mention;

http://www.de.ufpe.br/~cribari/esterbrook_cobre.jpg

The humble fountain pen. Chose this one, the Esterbrook J, in particular as it is a simple, sturdy and flexible design from the 50s.

big_swede
01-08-2010, 02:43
Not necessarily bushcraft but IMO deserves a mention;

The humble fountain pen. Chose this one, the Esterbrook J, in particular as it is a simple, sturdy and flexible design from the 50s.

Funny you should say that, I have recently started using a couple of chinese knock-offs of the venerable parker 51. Coupled with waterproof ink (noodlers bulletproof variety), they serve me very well in taking notes when out and about.

Highbinder
01-08-2010, 16:13
Funny you should say that, I have recently started using a couple of chinese knock-offs of the venerable parker 51. Coupled with waterproof ink (noodlers bulletproof variety), they serve me very well in taking notes when out and about.

Glad to see another fountain pen user here. I always take a FP and pencil when out. I use Noodler's Zhivago which is a dark black/green. The black component is waterproof. Pleasure to use - does the job SO much better than a biro.