View Full Version : Hollow Iron for carving.
I've been looking through "People of Eight Seasons" and I've come across an interesting tool.
http://www.ravenlore.co.uk/assets/images/8_Seasons-6.jpg
There is also a picture of it in use.
http://www.ravenlore.co.uk/assets/images/8_Seasons-3.jpg
The blade looks a bit like something I have seen from a museum in a Viking context.
Has anyone seen a similar tool anywhere or am I going to have to commision someone to make one?
John Fenna
05-07-2010, 14:52
Now that is what I call a spoon-knife!
I wonder how they actually made them ?
Ogri the trog
05-07-2010, 15:13
Tony had something similar, though much smaller cutting edge a few moots ago
Looks like a small scorp!
ATB
Ogri the trog
Hedgehog
05-07-2010, 15:19
I've seen a few very similar things in current use - some in photos of peoples work - possibly even on this forum.
Often referred to as 'mini' or one handed scorps IIRC.
The one in the first pic looks like an extremely curved hook knife while the one in use looks like a complete loop - like the 'mini' scorps I've seen.
Interesting use of the lanyard - it looks to be providing a pivot point in some way. I can see this might facilitate some cuts that are otherwise difficult &/or dangerous to perform.
http://www.autonopedia.org.uk/appropriate_technology/Tools/Tools_and_How_to_Use_Them/Knives.html
has a bit about them, but not with the cord being used...
Most of the scorps I've seen have a bend in the shaft / tang.
What intrigued me was the fact that this one looks straight to the handle and that is just the sort of thing I've seen in archaeological examples.
the drawing looks like a frosts double edged job but curved full circle
if you get any dims specs etc give me a shout might be fun to try
ATB
Duncan
robin wood
05-07-2010, 18:03
I have seen that method used in Sweden but not tried it myself. Basically the cord creates a moveable pivot point for power cuts as an alternative to using the fingers of your left hand. I have an old Swedish hook that is not dissimilar though it does not quite close up.
Now how about commissioning someone to make some of these as the next group buy? :) I'd go for one, or maybe a few could get together to make a commission cheaper anyway?
ATB
Dave
Mesquite
05-07-2010, 21:37
I have seen that method used in Sweden but not tried it myself. Basically the cord creates a moveable pivot point for power cuts as an alternative to using the fingers of your left hand. I have an old Swedish hook that is not dissimilar though it does not quite close up.
I was wondering what the neck cord was for.
Reminds me of having my Fergusun tractor tyres re-grooved I had the front wheel rims cut off the hubs and car rims welded on. Then the local (friendly) waggon garage used to recut, what were bald scrap car tyres with deep grooves, it surprising just how much rubber is left on a bald tyre and with no MOT requirement on tractors and a top speed of 10 MPH I was sorted. But it looked like this on the end of an electric soldering iron
just thought I'd chip in
cheers Danny
Bushbuddy
05-07-2010, 23:35
Good idea i might give it a go cheers
Found a really good research resource online (http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/search.do?criteria=lapska) and it has some pictures of artefacts that seem to relate to this thing.
http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/images/big_image/S-NM/NM.0069321/49182 http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/images/big_image/S-NM/NM.0198939/49379 http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/images/big_image/S-NM/NM.0198933/31486 http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/images/big_image/S-NM/NM.0216610/30850 http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/images/big_image/S-NM/NM.0069324/49184 http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/images/big_image/S-NM/NM.0194193/31484 http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/images/big_image/S-NM/NM.0271266/34107 http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/images/big_image/S-NM/NM.0073201/31458
Very interesting. Those tools look like they would get the job done. Here (http://www.pinewoodforge.com/hollower.html) is a modern variation.
It looks like the one in the top left, but deeper, with a semi-bowl section
Kind of looks like a melon baller with the bottom cut off. Which is exactly what i'm going to try right now to see what happens. see if i can sharpen it up to be of any use. Probably not mind.
Long handles gives more power and control given your work have room for it. Top left and second row left are called "holkjärn" in Swedish and the bottom 4 are called "skavjärn" which is used quite different with no string. The top two right I think is leather working tools :).
Snip> The top two right I think is leather working tools :).
That might make more sense, I couldn't make much sense of the labelling as my language skills are abysmal.
Nope, can't adapt a melon baller into one...annoyingly.
Still, it was fun
Hedgehog
17-07-2010, 17:35
Fascinating stuff.
Nice link too.
Snip> Top left and second row left are called "holkjärn" in Swedish <Snip
That's made searching a bit easier.
http://collections.smvk.se:8080/carlotta-vkm/guest/1086248/13/bild.jpg
http://collections.smvk.se:8080/carlotta-vkm/guest/1086708/13/bild.jpg
http://collections.smvk.se:8080/carlotta-vkm/guest/1112672/13/bild.jpg
Tor helge
17-07-2010, 18:08
Item 198939 is not a woodworking tool at all, but rather a kitchen tool.
It is "grytskrapa". A cooking pot "scraper".
Tor
That makes sense, do you reckon 216610 could be the same?
Tor helge
17-07-2010, 18:33
A quick search shows that it is also a item for "cleaning" pots.
Tor
Very interesting woodworking tools, bet thet move a lot of wood.
launditch1
17-07-2010, 22:44
Interesting tool.Ive seen and own something similar called a 'peg knife'.It was used to trim the tops of tiny wooden pegs used in the heels of handmade shoes.Er, im not even going to attempt to explain what that involves!
It looks almost exactly the same as the tool in your pics numbered 198933 except mine has a tuned beech handle with a brass collar..Peg knives are mentioned in Salaman's book on leatherworking tools.
Just a quick update to this thread.
Dave Budd made me a very nice blade which I stuck into a bit of antler to produce this fellow.
http://www.ravenlore.co.uk/assets/images/Hollow_Iron.jpg
I finally got to have a play with it at the weekend and am very impressed with it as a tool.
Shame I'm not that good a woodworker...
TomBartlett
31-05-2011, 18:10
Well it certainly managed to make a dent in that piece of wood there. What would be the advantage of this tool over a regular spoon knife?
Gailainne
31-05-2011, 18:16
Gary, have you tried it using the cord as a pivot point?
Tom, I'm not the best person to ask as I'm not much cop with either but it seems to make a smoother, wider radius cut than my spoon knife does.
Steven, I was relying on my rather faulty memory and only tried attaching it to my belt, which was hopeless. When I got home and looked at the picture again I felt like a right berk.
http://www.ravenlore.co.uk/assets/images/8_Seasons-3.jpg
Now that is what I call a spoon-knife!
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/9425/notaknife.jpg
I know at least someone else thought of this ;P
Stanleythecat
02-06-2011, 10:20
I know Sean Hellman sometimes comments on this site. I met him at a woodfair a couple of years ago and he suggested as also Robin confirms the lanyard was used to create a pivot and gain extra leverage. I recall (but sleep deprivation might have blurred the truth!) that Sean suggested them for clog making another cloudy memory is that there was some French link too...
Leo
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/9425/notaknife.jpg
I know at least someone else thought of this ;P
yes ts been my Sig line for a while ;)
An old video that shows the strap pivot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWXmTpVQRSM
With the hollowing iron, I actually tried making one years and years ago - found a pottery tool that looks the same but the bevel was on the inside. I tried to put a bevel on the outside but made a rubbish job of it and the metal quality was rubbish.
Whittler Kev
02-06-2011, 12:31
Nice find :)
Notice how long the handle is. Great lever! It was always something I planned to replicate after seeing it but haven't got round to it yet.
am I right in seeing the blade is canted back slightly?
shaggystu
02-06-2011, 14:50
am I right in seeing the blade is canted back slightly?
iirc the blade is seated pretty square on to the handle, but the handle has a very definate "kink" to it which, in effect, means that the blade is canted back slightly. it's a great tool to use, even if we couldn't quite make a decision as to how best utilise the strap
stuart
shaggystu
02-06-2011, 14:54
An old video that shows the strap pivot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWXmTpVQRSM
With the hollowing iron, I actually tried making one years and years ago - found a pottery tool that looks the same but the bevel was on the inside. I tried to put a bevel on the outside but made a rubbish job of it and the metal quality was rubbish.
that's interesting, lest weekend we tried out quite a few different ideas for the best way to use the strap (with varying results), i don't think anyone tried the method in the video though, it looks pretty effective
Great find Stew.
That makes much more sense now.
Bucketosudz
02-06-2011, 16:41
Splendid Knife Wayland! Looks really well with the Antler handle on it. Slight deviation to the initial topic, but in the video it mentions in the comments that he boils the burls in salt water, can anyone expound on this for me?
Can't help you much there but hopefully someone else can.