View Full Version : chainsaw advice
I'm not sure this is the appropriate place in the forum but was wondering whether anyone could give me some advice on buying a chainsaw. I want something to help me obtain my own stock for woodturning. £150 is my limit, and advice on retailers would also be appreciated.
Cheers
Heath
British Red
20-06-2010, 21:47
Husky or Stihl heath, all else are .....trash
However if that's all the money you have, buy blanks. You should be spending at least that on a chainsaw suit, helmet, gloves and boots
Hobbies are not worth dying for :(
Island Forager
20-06-2010, 22:09
There is a decent McCulloch (??spelling) that is a 0.38 model. It works well and I have seen it work very hard on some impressive wood. They are probably around your budget. Look in B&Q and Argos as they stock them.
Now, dont get too caught in up chainsaw snobbery. All chainsaw manufacturers have to comply with the same safety legislation, so they are all safe to operate. The unsafe part about the operation of a chainsaw is the idiot at the other end of it. If you are not familiar with how they operate, dont feel stupid and ask someone who does. Chainsaws can be extremely dangerous if you are not competent to use them. A good tip for new users is NEVER lift the tip of the saw above your pocket line on your trousers. You may laugh, but it will make sense when you do it. If you are just using it for logs and firewood, a Stihl or Husky is not strictly necessary.
I will be very honest here. If you have no more budget to buy and decent protective clothing, then DO NOT buy the chainsaw until you do. You will need a minimum of a decent pair of gloves (not a £1.50p job from the local garden shop - think £10-12 leather) plastic glasses and kevlar wellington style boots. Ideally you should consider a helmet / eardefender combination. The trousers are also excellent.
Now, the technical stuff. Dont be an idiot like a lot of people I see and buy a bloody great big thing that is not suitable for the job you need. For felling small trees, logging and heavy pruning, you will want something at the "small" end of the range. I operate a Stihl 180CBE. The power of it is incredible and is also has the benefit of an easy starting mechanism and a quick chain tensioning system. Unless you know exactly what you are doing, DO NOT change chains etc yourself. Get a professional to do it. The main thing about engine size is the weight. A chainsaw being in use for a sensible period will be very tiring on your arms.
The typical options of bar size are 12" and 14". Unless you actually need it, a 12" bar is more than sufficient.
Happy to help with any specific questions.
British Red
20-06-2010, 22:25
Can't agree on the Mac's. They really are rubbish - at least the petrol range - I have a petrol and a 16" electric which I use for secttioning coppice wood back at the ranch - its okay in that niche. The petrol is rubbish. It spews chain oil. the chain brake is suspect and the chain tenisioning not great. Since I bought a proper saw, I have realised how poor;y made it is.
Seriously heath, if that's your budget I would save up.
Red
cheap and chearful:
http://www.huttimports.co.uk/45cc-chainsaw-p-290.html?osCsid=n7f8j7p4qhs2ke nth6o14i09e0
They actually come from the same factory as Husky (share some bits) - it'll not be the quality of a proper Husky etc but they are ok for the price.
I got one last year - I cut about 2 - 3 tonnes of wood a year, may be a bit more with odd jobs - and it has done me proud. I got one as my shd and outhouse have been robbed a few times inc a very nice Husky. For the price I of a new Husky I can get several of these. They'll not last as long but mind have new had chance to wear out, except the sthil which was pants.
The guy that runs the place is good to deal with as well.
Do not for get trouser, helmet/ear defenders and gloves
If you look at one of these - ditch the 18" bar and get a 13 or 15" bat, 13 for preference. Safet and less power loss
I don't know much about chainsaws but I know about all these brands with regard to Brushcutters. Stihl and Husky have vastly superior engines and can take a lot of punishment like using them all day every day and I wouldn't buy anything else at work.
For lightweight work and domestic use lesser brands should be fine as long as you're diligent about looking after the motor. What Island Forager says about H and S makes a lot of sense.
launditch1
20-06-2010, 22:37
Have you ever used one before?Its worth going on a course or the very least having someone skilled to show you whats what like sharpening,correct chain tensioning, fuels and oil,ect..
I cant stress enough the need for safety gear either, boots, chainsaw trousers and gloves for starters.The gloves and trousers will have a special type of fibre inside so if the blade does cut into them it will clog up the chain and stop it...hopefully.Ive had some frightening near misses in my time(chains coming off, brutal kickbacks and then dropping the saw....Chainsaws demand respect.
Try this I have had one for a while use it at work and is faultless http://www.gardenmachinerydirect.co.u k/product.asp?id=4606
I think I qualify as one of those idiots that walked into it blindly.
Moved from a UK town into Rural France and found myself having to cut wood for our log burner for heating during the winter. Hired a mate and his chainsaw to do the first couple of years stock then I was given a chainsaw for christmas made by Wolf. As far as chainsaws go I have no idea how this compares but a chainsaw shop in the UK told me it's better than a McCulloch, not sure if that's an endorsement or not. The throttle pin snapped on the first day then the kill switch died on it 3 months later.
I've used a Stihl and they're OK and seem to be the preferred weapon of choice here. But now that my saw's run in it starts easily and runs like a dream.
Anyway a few months later I bought an electric chainsaw for those closer to home jobs.
Electric chainsaws are just as lethal in the wrong hands but are lighter and are therefore less tiring to use for any length of time and always start after a long time being stored. You'll also find electric chainsaws are about 1/2 the price of a petrol one. I don't know what they'd be like on bigger jobs but if taken slow and steady they ought to munch through and big logs. Mine does and I sharpen the chains myself.
My petrol chainsaw has a 16inch blade while my electric one has a 12inch blade. Both are adequate for the jobs I need them to do.
As far as safety kit is concerned. Buy it. No question about it. I wear gloves, ear defenders, goggles, steel toecapped boots. I don't have the special trousers though, but I can see the need for them. I just use extra caution ALWAYS and think twice before doing any fiddly cuts. However being a carpenter/joiner I am very used to working with woodworking machines and have not lost any respect for what damage they could inflict, so don't take my lack of chainsaw trousers as complacency.
Now as regards the type of saw you could buy. Can I suggest a V8?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edQ-uzJ0YeA&feature=related
And I thought I had too much time on my hands sometimes. :lmao:
Stihl or huskie. DOnt wate your tiem with anything else. Alternativly hire one and you should get the protective gear too.
robin wood
21-06-2010, 09:08
Presumably you have or will be getting a bandsaw to cut blanks, I would advise adding your £150 to your bandsaw budget to get a good one that will cross cut.rip and cut your blanks. Then all you need a chainsaw for is to cross cut stuff into bits you can lift. I buy most of my timber from tree surgeons and others who cut trees and they will chunk it up for you.
I came to woodworking from a forestry background which is the only reason I use chainsaws (use the tool you know) After proper training and 20 years use I would still not use a chainsaw without putting on the safety gear, that means helmet with ear defenders and visor, kevlar leggings and chainsaw boots. Those things cost all your budget before you look at saw and training.
Thanks for the advice chaps, seems I'm going to have to save the pennies for a bit longer in order to get the safety gear as well.
Presumably you have or will be getting a bandsaw to cut blanks, I would advise adding your £150 to your bandsaw budget to get a good one that will cross cut.rip and cut your blanks. Then all you need a chainsaw for is to cross cut stuff into bits you can lift. I buy most of my timber from tree surgeons and others who cut trees and they will chunk it up for you.
I came to woodworking from a forestry background which is the only reason I use chainsaws (use the tool you know) After proper training and 20 years use I would still not use a chainsaw without putting on the safety gear, that means helmet with ear defenders and visor, kevlar leggings and chainsaw boots. Those things cost all your budget before you look at saw and training.
Unfortunately I don't have room for a bandsaw at the moment, regardless of whether I can afford it or not, but I do have access to one at work no problem.
i work with chainsaw daily at work so i'll give my opinion.
can you maintain a chainsaw?
cleaning and dressing the bar, sharpening the chain, inspecting the sprocket and knowing when parts need replacing.
if it is a petrol there is also the need to know how to maintain the engine.
if you don't know how to do the above, and are competent at doing so you shouldn't even pick up the saw imho
dull chains, like knives require a lot more force to use. in fact if a chain is blunt you may not be able to cut at all no matter how much you force it. how quickly do chains blunt? instantly if you touch the ground or anything harder than wood.
you can have a bad cut with a knife, you can have a horrific cut with a chainsaw even when blunt.
iv seen some real nasty pictures and heard many stories and trust me you don't want to go there.
a properly sharpened chain requires very little or no pressure at all, its got an engine for a reason!
lets face it, if you blunt your chain within five minutes of use you'r not going to run to your local machine shop to get them to sharpen it (can be expensive too).
also chainsaw trousers, boots and a helmet are essential as being a novis there is a good chance that you cut them.
basically what im trying to say is that chainsaws are not for amaters. they are for professionals or those trained by professionals.
unless you can get the training (not cheep!) and all the proper gear don't get a chainsaw.
have you ever considered hand tools? most jobs can be done with a bow saw. or better still get yourself an old crosscut saw or old style (sharpenable) bow saw. iv got an old bow saw and honestly its easier to maintain than a chainsaw and a hell of a lot cheaper, safer, more reliable and you don't have to wear loads of hot sweaty safety gear.
ok hand saws are not as fast but once you'v got all your chainsaw gear and training will a chainsaw be around £1000 better to you?
have a good think, do you REALLY need a chainsaw?
pete
Sagely words of advice there. Sobering too. Thanks Pete.
Hmmm
I appreciate all the advice, I really do, and believe me I'm not going to rush into anything, especially anything dangerous. However, some of the responses seem really quite negative, almost patronising. No one was born with the knowledge and experience to use a chainsaw so everyone who has replied was once in the same situation as me. I don't know how to use or maintain a chainsaw, but I can learn just like everyone else.
Anyway, I've had a bit of a look at safety equipment and clothing. Gloves and helmet/visor/ear defenders seem pretty straight forward, but there appears to be a wide variety when it comes to boots and trousers. What do people recommend?
Cheers
Heath
British Red
22-06-2010, 11:04
Hmmm
I can learn just like everyone else.
Anyway, I've had a bit of a look at safety equipment and clothing. Gloves and helmet/visor/ear defenders seem pretty straight forward, but there appears to be a wide variety when it comes to boots and trousers. What do people recommend?
Cheers
Heath
Course you can mate. I'm happy using my saws - and safe too. I know my limits mind you and called in a pro for the tree growing through the power lines!
I prefer the "Bib & braces" style trousers - easier to chuck on over whatever I am wearing at the time. Better protection higher up too. I do use a jacket as well with the big saw.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2613/3691253872_824ff0b495_o.jpg
Red
Hmmm
I appreciate all the advice, I really do, and believe me I'm not going to rush into anything, especially anything dangerous. However, some of the responses seem really quite negative, almost patronising. No one was born with the knowledge and experience to use a chainsaw so everyone who has replied was once in the same situation as me. I don't know how to use or maintain a chainsaw, but I can learn just like everyone else.
Anyway, I've had a bit of a look at safety equipment and clothing. Gloves and helmet/visor/ear defenders seem pretty straight forward, but there appears to be a wide variety when it comes to boots and trousers. What do people recommend?
Cheers
Heath
I agree, I used a chainsaw when I was sixteen for a year doing land management training. We built a couple of bridges. And about three months work with a chainsaw Mill. I used a hand held chainsaw with a 12” blade for laying a long hedge and a 24” for chopping down trees and cutting slots for the Bridge support timbers. I’m alive and out of the 30 people on the course no one was killed injured or maimed in anyway. (Ok we all wore toe-tector boots and gloves, hard hats with ear defenders and mesh visors.) No one died, or needed any kind of hospital treatment.
I was not born knowing how to sharpen knives, but I didn’t leave it to the professionals nor did I take a training course, at huge cost. I learnt by practice. I didn’t even cut myself until I got good enough to be arrogant about it.
AS with all things take care prepare for the worse. Learn to sharpen the chain first and buy a share, so you are not tempted to use a dull blade. Keep your tools up to scratch and take care.
Yeah. This thread does sound a little negative. I bought a chainsaw on the cheap to feed the woodstove and it proved to be a steep learning curve. I was really lucky as a mate was able and willing to show me the ropes.
I bought a cheap homelite thing that lasted a year. It was forever breaking down and was a b*****d to start. I spent more time tinkering with it than sawing wood. I got some cheap secondhand trousers off ebay and a cheap helmet too.
I learnt a lot of things that the shop won't tell you ( like there is a reason why chainsaw files are sold in boxes!) and a lot of that first years sawing was misery. However, after the first time I put saw to wood my view of timber changed entirely. There is a huge satisfaction in getting out on a cold winter morning and feeling the woodchips bouncing off your leg.
I very quickly knew that the saw had to be binned and I replaced it with a Husky. There is a real difference both in the durability of the engines (cheap saws are really made for the DIYer who wants to cut up one tree) and also the chain speed (IIRC professional saws run chains with smaller teeth but much faster). I laugh now when I see my neighbour wearing his way through a log with his underpowered Ryobi with its unwieldy 18" bar.
So if you are confident that you will be safe, go for it. But get some hands on advice. If you know you are the sort of person who needs training, then you need the training.
If you are going to be using a saw for years to come you are going to have to get a good one sooner or later, but it is OK to start with something cheap.
Z
Chainsaw trousers are a must Heath SIP make good trousers and you will need type C protection, this means that they will have the protection layers all round the trousers, not just the front, Helmets with built in ear deffenders and visor is another Husqvarna or Oregon are ok for ground work. boots wise there is quite a few out there, class 1 en 345 protection.
saw wise they are dangerous but you sound like your not just going to jump into this with both feet so I'm sure you will learn.
The best advise with buying a saw is not to buy cheap, buy a decent Stihl or Husqvarna you wont regret it in the long run and it will serve you for years if you look after it.
http://www.frjonesandson.co.uk/
If you try these they might have some end of line stuff going cheap, let them know what your after and they will sort you out.
Chainsaw trousers are a must Heath SIP make good trousers and you will need type C protection, this means that they will have the protection layers all round the trousers, not just the front, Helmets with built in ear deffenders and visor is another Husqvarna or Oregon are ok for ground work. boots wise there is quite a few out there, class 1 en 345 protection.
saw wise they are dangerous but you sound like your not just going to jump into this with both feet so I'm sure you will learn.
The best advise with buying a saw is not to buy cheap, buy a decent Stihl or Husqvarna you wont regret it in the long run and it will serve you for years if you look after it.
http://www.frjonesandson.co.uk/
If you try these they might have some end of line stuff going cheap, let them know what your after and they will sort you out.
Thanks SOAR, it helps to have info on makes for the safety gear aswell as the saw and the necessary safety classifications.
A lot of the above mention advice has good merit .
I've slimmed down my chainsaw collection down to 10 that I use (from 33cc to 95cc) and have put a fair amount of petrol through them .I use Stihl , Husky , Johnsered and one Echo but I would also look at or not count out Dolmar/Makita Redmax,and Shindiawa.
If you're not familiar with power saws , go to any of the manufacturer's web site and download a few different owners manuals and read them (plenty of good info) .
The better saw manufacturers make some good homeowner saws , a file and patience will overcome a dull chain and a new chain for a mid size saw is about the price of a dozen beer .
If there is a training course available it should be considered .
Johnsered, McCulloc, Partner are owned by Huskvarna AB - formally Electrolux.
helmet with ear defenders and visor, kevlar leggings and chainsaw boots.
Spot on! I'd have the above before even thinking about gloves tbh - scary things chainsaws when things go wrong ;)
Mind you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHUtp5w3kis&feature=related
...it's not always the saw which hurts you ;)
I was lucky enough to be introduced to chainsaws by a friend who is very into safety. He has the whole kit, including the trousers.
The trousers have a gash in them approx where your femoral artery is. I dread to think what would've happened if he hadn't been wearing them at the time....
dr jones
25-06-2010, 17:37
My advice if cash is an issue to see if you qualify for any retraining grants to do the courses . Also the saw proof wellys are far cheaper than the boots ( about £50 compared to boots starting at £120) theyre hot and smelly to wear in this weather but offer equal protection . The maintenance side of the the courses are well worth it youll save a fortune if you know what your doing and casn fix the saw yourself . And lastly , trying not to sound patronising , takje great care , ive worked with saws for the last 20 years and process upwards of 600 tonnes of firewood every summer , but i would never loose respect for the machines and tools i use , very rarely you hear of just a close shave its usually really nasty when they catch you out .
Try to save up for the training you wont regret it !
ATB
echobelly
26-06-2010, 02:59
In a previous life I was a tree surgeon. Heath, you are right, people are not born knowing how to use chainsaw. It is all learnt.
The thread seems rather negative and snobbish in my opinion.
Training:
In regards to training this is a great idea if you have the money. If not, there are a lot of places to learn from the tinternet. You can learn most things from books too.
This is a great site for a start:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg317.pdf
Use:
Chainsaws can be lethal, but just be sensible. The biggest risk is "kickback". This occurs when the chain moving forward touches an object and the result is the saw kicking up and back towards the operator.
This helps explain it as a start:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/afag301.pdf
Personal Protection:
This is a MUST. As other poster have stated you need this. Proper chainsaw gloves, boots, helmet and ear defenders.
This place has a good selection:
http://www.honeybros.com/index.php?app=gbu0&ns=catshow&ref=ProtectiveClothing&sid=r724m31087i5v0yk55266rv9t9 a177km
Chainsaw:
Stihl and Husqvarna are the best no doubt. But in reality they are expensive. I used a cheap Alpina chainsaw for 4 years. It was used professionally and could do everything a Husky or Stihl could. A real workhorse. It only needed basic maintenance and was abused daily and never let me down. It is now retired (12 years old) and spends its days at my father's place. It still works and is used occasionally for cutting firewood.
Something like this:
http://www.mowermagic.co.uk/acatalog/Alpinachainsaws.html
As others have said, get a smaller guide bar if possible as this gives better control. An 12" guide bar will cut a 24" log.
Go with a ground saw, one handle on top, one at back. Do not get the smaller (and more expensive) top-handled saws as these are for use in a tree.
Maintenance of the saw is important and again can be learnt on the net.
Be safe and don't listen to chainsaw snobs; find something in your budget, read reviews online and go for it.
No relation to websites posted etc
**If I can help or offer advice, feel free to PM me.**
treelore
26-06-2010, 11:06
spot on echobelly !
here's my pennys worth
As a professional Arborist and forester i use a chainsaw day to day, everthing that echobelly has put is to the mark !
get your self some PPE
helmet with ear defenders and a full face visor
leather gloves
buy some stilh wellys...cheap and do the job well £60
as for the trousers i would get some chaps...cheaper but still give you the protection. but if your looking at doing more than just cutting fire wood i would buy some better trousers (class "C" )
as for the saw i would buy a stilh, which you can pick up in your price range.....
to make things safer for your self use a saw horse to cut your fire wood.(as seen in British reds pic)
yes chain saws are dangerours so just be careful and imho a hand saw is more dangerous ! as your less careful with one.
when you can save up the money and do a chainsaw coarse.
if you need any advise just PM me
Bear
Thanks for all the advice folks, and especially for the offer of more advice if necessary. I might see if I can find a local tree surgeon that can offer some basic training. To be honest I'm still not sure whether I'm ready to go down the chainsaw route at the moment as it sounds like quite a large outlay for something I won't actually be using that often. I might see what I can do with wedges, saws and axes. Thanks for the great advice though and especially for the more encouraging replies.
I might see what I can do with wedges, saws and axes. Thanks for the great advice though and especially for the more encouraging replies.Axes!!!!!!!
:yikes: Axes are not for amateurs. They are for professionals or those trained by professionals....:lmao:
echobelly
28-06-2010, 13:39
Heath: Don't be put off. It is not rocket science.
I've seen people in SE Asia using chainsaws in flip-flops, shorts and smoking a fag :yikes: If they can do it, so can you!!!
Again, feel free to PM if I can help. I don't mind answering basic questions. I'm a qualified tree surgeon and can point you in the right direction. :)
demographic
28-06-2010, 19:29
Whatever chainsaw you go for make sure there's a proper local dealer that knows how to repair it and service it.
If you can get one that has a vertically split crankcase and separate cylinder not one of the clamshell ones with the horizontally split crankcase that has the cylinder cast into the top half.
Oh and the better small saws have an adjustable chain oiler as opposed to a non adjustable one.
That said I do own a Stihl 017 with clamshell crankcases and non adjustable chain oiler that's working a champ but I got it for nowt so it doesn't owe me anything, if it dies tomorrow I still couldn't complain.
Don't go thinking you need a massive chainsaw as the big ones are pretty numb for cutting most firewood and you can see some bumf about sharpening the chains HERE (http://www.scribd.com/doc/28466692/Carlton-Chain-sharpening-Complete-Book) cos I copied the Carlton sharpening PDF and bunged it up on a host site.
I would go as far as to say that its worth downloading it and printing off in Booklet form so you can read it properly.
I've just bunged a tree felling and crosscutting safety guide up that I've found on the net a while ago HERE (http://www.scribd.com/doc/33668867/Tree-Felling) also but its no substitute for proper training so don't come running to me when you chop your legs off.
Regards Scott.
Axes!!!!!!!
:yikes: Axes are not for amateurs. They are for professionals or those trained by professionals....:lmao:
I saw that one coming.
Thanks for the encouragement and offer of advice Echobelly and thanks for linking those instructionals Demographic.
echobelly
29-06-2010, 08:49
No worries, get the saw...it impresses the ladies and is cool to use!