View Full Version : testing a knife
Apart from doing all the usual (user type) things, splitting, carving spoons and feather sticks, casting sparks for fires, chopping wood and veggies ect does anybody have any specific tests they like to do on a new knife?
hmmmm...
Thats a tough one. I think what you got there covers all the criteria you'd need...
Cheers...
BorderReiver
18-04-2005, 10:52
No,if splitting includes battoning :)
There is an interesting thread on Knifeforums on just this subject :cool:
As an experienced user your tests will be of more interest to us punters than any fancy ideas thought up by the "what can we do to break it" set. The foregoing does not include manufactures own destruction tests but I assume that's not what you are asking about.
Keith_Beef
18-04-2005, 11:39
Apart from doing all the usual (user type) things, splitting, carving spoons and feather sticks, casting sparks for fires, chopping wood and veggies ect does anybody have any specific tests they like to do on a new knife?
Drawing it from the sheath and putting it away again with one hand and without looking.
Dropping and catching it in mid-fall.
Dropping it in long grass, and seeing how easy it is to find again.
Keith.
BorderReiver
18-04-2005, 11:54
Dropping and catching it in mid-fall.
Keith.
:eek: :eek: I hope you were joking.
I would NEVER try to catch a falling blade of any kind,even if it was new out of the box,I had just sold one of the children to buy it and I was 12 feet up over concrete.
There are young people using this forum and we don't want to give them any silly ideas :rolleyes:
Keith_Beef
18-04-2005, 12:03
:eek: :eek: I hope you were joking.
I would NEVER try to catch a falling blade of any kind,even if it was new out of the box,I had just sold one of the children to buy it and I was 12 feet up over concrete.
There are young people using this forum and we don't want to give them any silly ideas :rolleyes:
No, I wasn't joking.
I don't catch the blade, I catch the handle... there's a difference.
I almost wrote "juggling with it" but I'm afraid I'm all fingers and thumbs when it comes to juggling (and I'd rather keep all my fingers and thumbs)
Doing this gives me a feel for the weight and balance. I also throw it from left hand to right hand, and back again, without looking.
I hasten to add that when I do this, I am wearing either my steel toe-capped boots or my clogs. Both are tough enough that I've had heavy logs fall on them when splitting firewood without problems.
Keith.
Still doesn't sound like a great idea to me and im a juggler!
BorderReiver
18-04-2005, 12:21
No, I wasn't joking.
I don't catch the blade, I catch the handle... there's a difference.
Keith.
BUT,when catching by reflex it is not always certain that you will grab the handle.
You are talking about a controled situation and you are intending to drop and catch.This is not what happens in the field.
I find it much safer to try to condition myself to "let it drop" when handling very sharp sharps,and move the lower legs and feet out of the way.
Squidders
18-04-2005, 12:28
It sounds like a mad idea to me and i'm a semi-suicidal fool of a man.
Im typing this with my nose after trying to catch the knife in mid-air...............
Seriously though splitting does include battoning - battoning the blade, tip and near the handle. Battoning the handle itself and battoning the butt of the handle to drive the tip into a beeck and split a willow wand.
When learning the skills of a blacksmith, one of the first things that is drilled into a new student is if you fumble, "let it drop".
This is because it may be hot but I think the same rule could apply here.
MartiniDave
18-04-2005, 12:42
Gary,
How about the classic Kochanski test, 4cm into a tree then stand on it?
Also edge retention is quite important to me. I quite like the feel of my Helle, but the edge seems to dull much quicker than my Woodlore.
Good luck with it!
Dave
When learning the skills of a blacksmith, one of the first things that is drilled into a new student is if you fumble, "let it drop".
This is because it may be hot but I think the same rule could apply here.
Well said mate - we teach similar in bushcraft - always error on the side of safety. There are no hero's only dead fools!
Gary,
How about the classic Kochanski test, 4cm into a tree then stand on it?
Also edge retention is quite important to me. I quite like the feel of my Helle, but the edge seems to dull much quicker than my Woodlore.
Good luck with it!
Dave
MD I did the mhammering into a tree bit - and it took my weight easily (mind you I did it with the blade verticle so I stood on the spine - but it was ok (bugger to get out after mind you)
As I say edge has been brilliant through out so no contest there.
Abbe Osram
18-04-2005, 12:59
Apart from doing all the usual (user type) things, splitting, carving spoons and feather sticks, casting sparks for fires, chopping wood and veggies ect does anybody have any specific tests they like to do on a new knife?
As I do most of my wood work with an axe I think I would be mostly interested to see how a Knife works doing all the skinning jobs and butchering. How its laying in the hand when the hands are full with blood and guts. How safe it is not to cut the stomach of the animal while removing the innerparts of the animal. In my opinion most knifes are too long and hard to handle while gutting. I dont know much about knifes and bought a Mora type of knife but it sucks. As I said before I use for all the wood works a GB axe and skinning I do with a folding knife.
I still have to find a good situation to use a bigger Knife.
cheers
Abbe
As I do most of my wood work with an axe I think I would be mostly interested to see how a Knife works doing all the skinning jobs and butchering. How its laying in the hand when the hands are full with blood and guts. How safe it is not to cut the stomach of the animal while removing the innerparts of the animal. In my opinion most knifes are too long and hard to handle while gutting. I dont know much about knifes and bought a Mora type of knife but it sucks. As I said before I use for all the wood works a GB axe and skinning I do with a folding knife.
I still have to find a good situation to use a bigger Knife.
cheers
Abbe
Interesting Abbe - I have used the knife to butcher a chicken for a curry and a trout (already gutted) for a lunch and it worked fine - blade is 100mm which should be ok. What knife do you use if your Mora sucks?
And yes I'd normally use an axe for wood chopping ect but I wanted to see what the knife could do!
jamesdevine
18-04-2005, 13:34
Yep the food prep idea is a good one. I sure you have thought of it but salt water fish and coastal enviornment.
I live beside the sea and most of the bushcraft I do outside of the back garden is done along the shore line. I haven't used my carbon mora there yet but I have used my helle with no ill effects. My brother on the other hand found the carbon mora un usable after a day full on fishing, gut and lots of salt water.
I'd also still like to see it Gary if possible?
James
Abbe Osram
18-04-2005, 13:38
Interesting Abbe - I have used the knife to butcher a chicken for a curry and a trout (already gutted) for a lunch and it worked fine - blade is 100mm which should be ok. What knife do you use if your Mora sucks?
And yes I'd normally use an axe for wood chopping ect but I wanted to see what the knife could do!
As I said I dont know much about knifes so I bought something.
I guess you will laugh at me but here it comes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Abbe/knife_abbe.jpg :o
cheers
Abbe
Yep the food prep idea is a good one. I sure you have thought of it but salt water fish and coastal enviornment.
I live beside the sea and most of the bushcraft I do outside of the back garden is done along the shore line. I haven't used my carbon mora there yet but I have used my helle with no ill effects. My brother on the other hand found the carbon mora un usable after a day full on fishing, gut and lots of salt water.
I'd also still like to see it Gary if possible?
James
Coastal is hard on Carbon steel James - high carbon might help but there you can only oil it and keep it clean as best you can.
As I said I dont know much about knifes so I bought something.
I guess you will laugh at me but here it comes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Abbe/knife_abbe.jpg :o
cheers
Abbe
A Puukko style - dont know the make though. Maybe you should try a Mora clipper Abbe I think you'd be surprised mate.
Abbe Osram
18-04-2005, 13:44
I will check it out, the Mora type.
What kind of oil do you use? I am asking for my GB axe as I was reading one should oil them.
cheers
Abbe
I will check it out, the Mora type.
What kind of oil do you use? I am asking for my GB axe as I was reading one should oil them.
cheers
Abbe
Because my knives are used for a mixture of jobs including eating, I use a vegetable oil such as olive for rust prevention. Alternatively the residual oil / fat from cooking is usually OK providing it's not from salted meat / bacon
jamesdevine
18-04-2005, 13:57
Understand about the oiling, but I would be interested to see how the knife preforms under a days use in that enviornment with being oiled.
Maybe an oiled cloth would enough(sorry just thinking here). My brothers mora was covered in rust after only a few hours and living on an island I would just as likely find my self at the coast as I would in the woods. Maybe the only answer is a SS version maybe some time in the future ;)
Just a thought
James
Great Pebble
18-04-2005, 14:04
I've got a SS Mora.... Would like something very similar but with a better (not hard plastic) grip, suggestions?
I will check it out, the Mora type.
What kind of oil do you use? I am asking for my GB axe as I was reading one should oil them.
cheers
Abbe
To be honest using the axe/knife seems to be enough -- but where you are in the world I would imagine oilling would be a must - have you tried something like Fospro spray? Or maybe mixing 50/50 meths and a two stroke oil like what you might have for a chainsaw?
Understand about the oiling, but I would be interested to see how the knife preforms under a days use in that enviornment with being oiled.
Maybe an oiled cloth would enough(sorry just thinking here). My brothers mora was covered in rust after only a few hours and living on an island I would just as likely find my self at the coast as I would in the woods. Maybe the only answer is a SS version maybe some time in the future ;)
Just a thought
James
Interesting James but really a carbon blade will rust in salt water conditions its just a fact of life - like the sky being blue - you can try to protect with oils and remember this is one reason we like carbon steel because you have to look after it.
But as an after thought I used my trust old mora classic with the antler handle I made when I was on ISLAY and we spent two days beach combing and setting long lines ect and it never got a spot of rush - interesting, maybe the simple act of cleaning it before putting it away helped or maybe it was the neats foot oil from the sheath?
Guess I'll have to visit the coast and see how this new one fares eh!
I've got a SS Mora.... Would like something very similar but with a better (not hard plastic) grip, suggestions?
Burn off the handle and make your own one! Thats what I did with my old Mora classic (although thats a wooden handle of course)
Burn off the handle and make your own one! Thats what I did with my old Mora classic (although thats a wooden handle of course)
carful not to mess up the temper of the blade when doing this.. if you can smash it off thats probably better!
TheViking
18-04-2005, 14:16
As an experienced user your tests will be of more interest to us punters than any fancy ideas thought up by the "what can we do to break it" set.
I agree. The Kochanski tree test I tried, but i've got the impression that Mors is a pretty wise man when it comes to bushcraft and since he uses Moras, I had a go at this some time ago, but the knife broke.
What I don't like is when people on purpose try to break a knife, why would you wanna break it, is it necessary in the outdoors? Not IMO. :cool:
Just a few cents.
carful not to mess up the temper of the blade when doing this.. if you can smash it off thats probably better!
With a plastic handle you dont need to worry TOMTOM just heat up an old kitchen knife and burn off the handle one side of the tang the other side will snap of - easy peasy! Only way yous bugger the temper was heating up the handle and blade over a fire or flame!
I agree. The Kochanski tree test I tried, but i've got the impression that Mors is a pretty wise man when it comes to bushcraft and since he uses Moras, I had a go at this some time ago, but the knife broke.
What I don't like is when people on purpose try to break a knife, why would you wanna break it, is it necessary in the outdoors? Not IMO. :cool:
Just a few cents.
Quite right little viking - although there is a difference between you buying a knife and trying to break it and Mora making a knife then trying to break it.
Mors knife test stems from the fact you can fell a small 8" or so diameter tree with a knife and it the blade jams in the wood you might need to use excessive force to free it - as I said I tried it just to be thorough but I did it where the strength is greatest.
Normal testing shouldnt involve more than the normal tasks youd expect to put the tool to work at.
Great Pebble
18-04-2005, 14:44
Burn off the handle and make your own one!
That's why I was asking about "handle kits" in a previous thread. :D
jamesdevine
18-04-2005, 14:50
Yep the brother really didn't look after it will and that was part of the problem it was used all day and spent little time in it's plastic sheath. If the has oiled it from time to time there would have been less damage. We was also at sea on a boat for much of the day so probable a little extreme for bushcraft.
I was thinking of your Islay trip when i asked. Am I giving you an excuse to have another trip ;) .
I am looking for a good full tang bushcraft knife and this sounds like the prefect all rounder thats why I am ask about salt water.
Thanks Gary for the replies and enjoy the trip to the sea side.
James
Keith_Beef
18-04-2005, 15:05
As I said I dont know much about knifes so I bought something.
I guess you will laugh at me but here it comes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Abbe/knife_abbe.jpg :o
cheers
Abbe
I think that those are made by Martiini for Rapala.
Keith.
That's why I was asking about "handle kits" in a previous thread. :D
ah! Well with a stick tang easiest way is to cut a green birch about the size and half you want and hammer this onto the tang (1 in 3 will split btw) once fitted leave over night to season a little then carve to fit - I did it with an old Mora clipper and then gave the finished knife to a friend as a gift and she is still using to this da so it works!
Yep the brother really didn't look after it will and that was part of the problem it was used all day and spent little time in it's plastic sheath. If the has oiled it from time to time there would have been less damage. We was also at sea on a boat for much of the day so probable a little extreme for bushcraft.
I was thinking of your Islay trip when i asked. Am I giving you an excuse to have another trip ;) .
I am looking for a good full tang bushcraft knife and this sounds like the prefect all rounder thats why I am ask about salt water.
Thanks Gary for the replies and enjoy the trip to the sea side.
James
SEACRAFT - A STEP BEYOND...........LAND!
Keith_Beef
18-04-2005, 15:29
ah! Well with a stick tang easiest way is to cut a green birch about the size and half you want and hammer this onto the tang (1 in 3 will split btw) once fitted leave over night to season a little then carve to fit - I did it with an old Mora clipper and then gave the finished knife to a friend as a gift and she is still using to this da so it works!
Over on BB, Wayne mentioned a "gypsy" technique of boiling a piece of wood to soften in, them hammering it onto the tang.
Keith.
jamesdevine
18-04-2005, 15:32
A wet step :D
James
Hi,
Before I completely trust a knife for survival, I want to know it's limits. I usually can find those limits with general use and bushcraft, plus some toughness tests for larger blades. I don't need small cutters to be bullet proof (even though I like them to be that way), but large field blades and choppers need to be tough enough for very hard work. So I beat them up and see how they survive...
Only the toughest earn the right to come and play with me in the field. The others are dead anyway (or else I recycle the broken parts and make small blades out of them ;)).
Cheers,
David
Hi,
Before I completely trust a knife for survival, I want to know it's limits. I usually can find those limits with general use and bushcraft, plus some toughness tests for larger blades. I don't need small cutters to be bullet proof (even though I like them to be that way), but large field blades and choppers need to be tough enough for very hard work. So I beat them up and see how they survive...
Only the toughest earn the right to come and play with me in the field. The others are dead anyway (or else I recycle the broken parts and make small blades out of them ;)).
Cheers,
David
Interesting point of view - I wonder if you have ever weakened a blade by beating it up so that should you ever have needed it in an emergency it might have failed!
Rhapsody
18-04-2005, 18:26
I batton it through a tough piece of wood and then trim my toenails with it. If a knife does both of these things well and bloodlessly then I'm convinced it can be used to do anything.
ok - thats one test I'll leave for another day but cheers anyway
simonsays
18-04-2005, 20:07
Apart from doing all the usual (user type) things, splitting, carving spoons and feather sticks, casting sparks for fires, chopping wood and veggies ect does anybody have any specific tests they like to do on a new knife?
Hi Gary, the best test of a new knife is to give it to a ham-fisted beginner like me to abuse for a while. If it can stand up to my amateurish attempts at sharpening, carving, battoning (I still have the bruises on my knuckles :( ) and spark generating then it would be a worthy tool indeed :D
No-one is tougher on tools than an enthusiastic amateur in the early throes of his craft.....
Cheers,
Simon
btw I had a excellent weekend Gary, learned loads and totally chilled out.
RovingArcher
18-04-2005, 20:17
BUT,when catching by reflex it is not always certain that you will grab the handle.
You are talking about a controled situation and you are intending to drop and catch.This is not what happens in the field.
I find it much safer to try to condition myself to "let it drop" when handling very sharp sharps,and move the lower legs and feet out of the way.
I will check balance by dropping the blade point down and allowing it to stick. I check *my* ability by grabbing it before it touches the intended target when I drop it. It's actually more of a test of hand-eye coordination and concentration. Both of which are critical in the bush. Keeping it safe is also of great importance to me and is also a critical to have in the bush.
Hi Gary, the best test of a new knife is to give it to a ham-fisted beginner like me to abuse for a while. If it can stand up to my amateurish attempts at sharpening, carving, battoning (I still have the bruises on my knuckles :( ) and spark generating then it would be a worthy tool indeed :D
No-one is tougher on tools than an enthusiastic amateur in the early throes of his craft.....
Cheers,
Simon
btw I had a excellent weekend Gary, learned loads and totally chilled out.
Good news mate that what the course is all about hope we struck a happy medium!!
As for the knife ..................
RovingArcher
18-04-2005, 20:28
I think that those are made by Martiini for Rapala.
Keith.
Yep, and they come in several different blade sizes and a couple of blade types and come with the same handle, leather sheath and 420 stainless blade. They can be had for about the same price as a SwAK or Clipper. I was looking at them on ebay and they manufacture one with a 3 1/2" blade that I'm thinking of picking up.
RovingArcher
18-04-2005, 20:47
Apart from doing all the usual (user type) things, splitting, carving spoons and feather sticks, casting sparks for fires, chopping wood and veggies ect does anybody have any specific tests they like to do on a new knife?
I can't think of a thing that I do as far as testing, that doesn't fall into the usage category. Well, except for my previous post.
I have to share that the two most important tests to me are whether I can accurately and comfortably use the knife when I choke up on the blade for fine wood work and whether the handle fits me well enough for extended use power cutting through 1"+ saplings.
I can't think of a thing that I do as far as testing, that doesn't fall into the usage category. Well, except for my previous post.
I have to share that the two most important tests to me are whether I can accurately and comfortably use the knife when I choke up on the blade for fine wood work and whether the handle fits me well enough for extended use power cutting through 1"+ saplings.
Agreed with the above - however I wouldnt recommend your previous post to anybody - in bushcraft we should always err on the side of safety!
Gary,
Interesting point of view - I wonder if you have ever weakened a blade by beating it up so that should you ever have needed it in an emergency it might have failed!
Well... I've had untested blades fail on me in emergencies and non-emergencies, but those who went through the ordeal never failed afterwards... yet...
I think most steels either endure the hardships with ductility/resiliency (and come back unaltered), or else they chip, roll, break, bend, or deteriorate in some permanent way.
Cheers,
David
Well, I tend to carry two kinds of blades: typically, a razor-sharpened pocket knife and a coarsely sharpened axe (or mora/pukko-style knife).
For the razor type blade, the traditional tests of removing hair off the arm or slicing paper seem to work. For the more coarsely sharpened blade, chopping vegetation or wood is the thing.
For keeping them rust free, olive oil is great if the knives are in semi-regular use, otherwise it goes rancid. Usually, I tend to use petroleum jelly which doubles as a skin moisturiser and when mixed with cotton wool balls, becomes a great makeup remover...er...firelighter. Being a grease, it stays on the blade whereas oil might tend to drip off or evaporate.
I'd go along with paper slicing and alopecia of the arms!! If a knife does a few days of bushcrafting, along with all the normal tasks usually encountered on such a trip, without any need for hardcore sharpening, you're onto a winner.
Spamel
RovingArcher
18-04-2005, 22:52
Agreed with the above - however I wouldnt recommend your previous post to anybody - in bushcraft we should always err on the side of safety!
Agreed! ;)
BorderReiver
19-04-2005, 13:09
I batton it through a tough piece of wood and then trim my toenails with it. If a knife does both of these things well and bloodlessly then I'm convinced it can be used to do anything.
Remind me never to eat anything that you have prepared :eek: :p
MartiniDave
19-04-2005, 13:20
I imagine you've already put it through its paces for delicate, intricate carving, esecially tight internal radius cuts, like on a primitive fish hook for instance.
That is particularly where the old helle lets me down.
Dave
I imagine you've already put it through its paces for delicate, intricate carving, esecially tight internal radius cuts, like on a primitive fish hook for instance.
That is particularly where the old helle lets me down.
Dave
I never but Paganwolf did, he turned my broom handle into.... well a lot of shavings eventually!
MartiniDave
19-04-2005, 15:14
Sorry to hear about your broom Gary, its been a good 'un, only had 3 new heads and 2 new handles! :D
Sorry to hear about your broom Gary, its been a good 'un, only had 3 new heads and 2 new handles! :D
:D had that broom mn and boy - swept many a parade ground too!!