UK Catapult Laws

[Emdiesse]

What are the laws regarding catapults in the UK (slingshots)?

[innocent bystander]

I am amazed this link works, but there is a bit here :

http://www.bushcraftuk.co.uk/articles/knife_law.html

[Emdiesse]

So, if someone asks me why i have it and i say:

"I am using it for purpose of killing grey squirrels for the purpose of feeding licensed wild birds", then i am ok?

[innocent bystander]

I doubt it. I reckon you may get banged up !! Probably depends on context - if you were in the middle of town, it would be an offensive weapon. In the midle of nowhere, who knows ...

[Emdiesse]

in the country side. I wouldn't even think of using a catapult in the middle of town, lol.

What about on your own property or on private property of which you have permission from the land owner?

What are the laws regarding being on your own property or on someone elses with permission, not just regarding catapults, but anything?

Thanks :D

[Danzo]

Hi Emdiesse

Catapults are not illegal in Britain but if used or carried as a weapon they become illegal. You don't have to justify why you are carrying one but in town a police officer is likely to be suspicious. In the countryside it's going to be rather different, even in a public access wood or moorland area, as using one for target practice or even hunting is legal

On private property, your own or anyone elses, you are perfectly OK.

Providing you are on someone elses property with their permission!

Hope that helps.

Danzo

[innocent bystander]

I'm wondering why it's legal to hun with a cattie, but not with a bow'n'arra..... ?
Probably some ancient by law or something, stop the peaseants uprising maybe ?

[Ed]

I'm wondering why it's legal to hun with a cattie, but not with a bow'n'arra..... ?
Within the UK it is illegal to hunt with a bow..... It says so in the law

You can find the relavant law in the wildlife and countryside act 1981.

Section 11 prohibits the use of self-locking snares, bows, explosives or use of live mammals or birds as decoys, for capture and killing of any wild animal.

Its pretty specific and no mention of catapults......

Ed

[Great Pebble]

Hmm... I wonder what excatly defines a slingshot and what defines a bow?

[Emdiesse]

OK. The reason i am asking this, is because the other day me and my friend went out to the countryside with our catapults. Never have managed to hit anything yet, but its just good fun :D, alot of the time we have little target practice competitions against each other.

However, when i was on my way out, my dad said to me to be careful because if i'm caught with it i could be prosecuted.

So, if you are in the country using it for hunting/target practice you are ok?

[innocent bystander]

Within the UK it is illegal to hunt with a bow.

You can find the relavant law in the wildlife and countryside act 1981.

.

Ed

Yes, but why the bow and not the cattie ? Not that i'm bothered though...

[pumbaa]

As far as i am aware its more the projectile that they are worried about . if you caught a rabbit with an arrow or bolt it is going to be severly restricted by having an arrow lodged through it ! but with a pellet or ballbering at least it can retreat to its burrow .

Personaly i think it is likely to die either way (depending where you hit it) and the arrows have the bonus of not letting it run of through the gorse bushes , so at least you bag your catch .

Pumbaa

[Ed]

ok... as this thread is talking about hunting and killing vermin etc I'm moving it over to fair game :o


Yes, but why the bow and not the cattie ? Not that i'm bothered though...
I think that the use of the catapult to hunt has been kept legal as it is used as a method of vermin control.... unlike the bow which is a true hunting weapon (or sport).

Ed

[Eric_Methven]

Taking a few rabbits or squirrel is neither here or there to the powers that be. The difference comes down to shooting deer and sheep and other high value meat animals. If bow hunting were legal, plenty sheep would get whacked to fill the old freezer. Try doing a sheep with a catupult - probably wouldn't even feel it. Maybe you'd **** the deer off by whacking a ball bearing off it's bum but you wouldn't kill it. Maybe that's why bow hunting is illegal and catapult hunting isn't.

Eric

[Neiltoo]

Within the UK it is illegal to hunt with a bow..... It says so in the law

You can find the relavant law in the wildlife and countryside act 1981.


Its pretty specific and no mention of catapults......

Ed
The wild life and countryside act doesnt extend to N. Ireland or the Channel islands - does anyone know what the law is there ( its daft- either the UK is all one country or it isnt - why do all the bits have to have different laws - daft I tell you :D

[giancarlo]

Not 100% sure what the laws are in Jersey... but i'm guessing they could be different to the UK ones... they mainly pick and chose which ones they want to enforce over here...

I might try and find out about Jersey ones.. although i'm guessing, Guernsey and the other islands have a different set of laws too

[Neiltoo]

I eventually found The Wildlife (Northern Ireland) Order 1985 online - they dont make these things easy to find and as for translating them !!!
As for the rest of the UK it seems to prohibit everything except a firearm. It mentions a bow or a spear by name and seems to exclude everything else as well

(1) Subject to the provisions of this Part, if any person—

(a) sets in position any self-locking snare which is of such a nature and so placed as to be calculated to cause bodily injury to any wild animal coming into contact therewith;

(b) uses for the purpose of killing or taking any wild animal any self-locking snare, whether or not of such a nature or so placed as aforesaid, any missile which is not discharged from a firearm, including in particular any arrow or spear, or any explosive other than ammunition for a firearm; or

(c) uses as a decoy, for the purpose of killing or taking any wild animal, any sound recording or any live mammal or bird whatever,

he shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to the provisions of this Part and to those of Article 20, if any person—

(a) sets in position any of the following articles, being an article which is of such a nature and so placed as to be calculated to cause bodily injury to any wild animal included in Schedule 6 which comes into contact therewith, that is to say, any springe, trap, gin, snare, hook and line, any electrical device for killing or stunning or any poisonous, poisoned or stupefying substance or muscle-relaxing agent;

(b) uses for the purpose of killing or taking any such wild animal any such article as aforesaid, whether or not of such a nature and so placed as aforesaid, or any net;

(c) uses for the purpose of killing or taking any such wild animal—

(i) any automatic or semi-automatic weapon;

(ii) any metal bar, axe, hatchet, cudgel, club, hammer or similar instrument;

(iii) any device for illuminating a target or any sighting device for night shooting;

(iv) any form of artificial light or any mirror or other dazzling device; or

(v) any gas or smoke not falling within sub-paragraphs (a) and (b); or


(d) uses any mechanically propelled vehicle in immediate pursuit of any such wild animal for the purpose of driving, killing or taking that animal,

he shall be guilty of an offence.


Oops - just noticed that the act is subject to copyright restrictions -
So its an offence to contravene the act but its also an offence to copy any part of the act in order to tell someone else about whats in the act.

I always did like Monty Python

[bambodoggy]

if you caught a rabbit with an arrow or bolt it is going to be severly restricted by having an arrow lodged through it ! but with a pellet or ballbering at least it can retreat to its burrow .Pumbaa

and this is a good thing???? Peter and Jessica Rabbit get to die in slow agonising pain in their burrow as opposed to being humanely euthanised by the happy hunter? who the heck makes these mad laws.....? ? ? :eek:
Most likely the same ones that say it's ok to snare a rabbit so long as the snare doesn't lock and the animal (now trumatised and injured from trying to escape) can give it the old hoodiini once in a while whilest it's illegal to use a locking snare that will hold the animal there until the hunter can euthanise it when he next checks his traps...buy law once a day (for non locking snares....gotta give bunny time to get his handcuff off) but in practice done by most trappers at least twice or more in a day to ensure the minimum of suffering timewise for his/her pray.

We have to stick to the Law...in all things we do and this is right and proper...but the law can be madness itself sometimes too :D lol

Stay safe and legal out there boys and girls :)

Neiltoo, the way I read the NI act you've quoted it means "any missile which is not discharged from a firearm", while used "for the purpose of killing or taking any wild animal", as opposed to anything that fires anything from anything...otherwise a staplegun would also be included...along with plently of kids toys...bb guns, air guns etc. Danzo should be able to confirm that but I'd be suprised if that wasn't the case.
So it would be legal to carry it for target practice but not to hunt with.

Cheers,

Bam.

[BIG-TARGET]

Just remember the old NJ saying:"You're not guilty of a crime, you're just guilty of being caught!!!!" :rolleyes:

[bambodoggy]

Just remember the old NJ saying:"You're not guilty of a crime, you're just guilty of being caught!!!!" :rolleyes:

Lol...isn't it only Criminals that say that?? ?? lol ;)

[BIG-TARGET]

Here in NJ, everytime they pass a law, they turn more innocent people into criminals :eek:

[stotRE]

Its better to beg for forgivness than to ask permission. lol :D

[BIG-TARGET]

Its better to beg for forgivness than to ask permission. lol :D

You got it!!!! :rolleyes: ;)

[Neiltoo]

Neiltoo, the way I read the NI act you've quoted it means "any missile which is not discharged from a firearm", while used "for the purpose of killing or taking any wild animal", as opposed to anything that fires anything from anything...otherwise a staplegun would also be included...along with plently of kids toys...bb guns, air guns etc. Danzo should be able to confirm that but I'd be suprised if that wasn't the case.
So it would be legal to carry it for target practice but not to hunt with.

Cheers,

Bam.

The way I read this which is maybe what you are saying is that you cant kill any wild animal unless you use a firearm.
Its funny but I cant find any exception that would cover a mouse trap for example ! :confused:

[bambodoggy]

The way I read this which is maybe what you are saying is that you cant kill any wild animal unless you use a firearm.
Its funny but I cant find any exception that would cover a mouse trap for example ! :confused:

Not quite, I'm saying what the law says, that you can't kill a wild animal with some types of missile (namely any that don't come out of a firearm)... remember the Act in which we are working is the wildlife act and as such is wildlife related, it isn't a public order act or firearms act or similar and so isn't dealing with what we can and can't carry in public, only with the fact that we can't use certain weapons (or traps) to kill wild animals and that those weapons we can use (firearms etc) can only be used on certain wild animals (namely those not listed in Schedule 6).

You can use a non-locking snare to catch/kill a bunny as rabbits are't listed in Schedule 6 and if it's not dead when you get there you can club it to death with a stick. You can lay poison for rats etc but the act is saying that if you do this knowing you may harm animals listed on Schedule 6 then you are guilty of an offence, whether by laying the poison near a Schedule 6 listed animals feeding ground that happens to be where you're rats are living too or by laying your snare incorrectly so that it is likely to catch a schedule 6 listed animal even though you set it out for the purpose of bagging a non schedule 6 animal. Always remember that ignorance of the law is no defence and that our law is based on reason, so in court if they find that you didn't take "reasonable" care when laying your (perfectly legal) non-locking snare and it did catch a schedule 6 listed animal by "mistake", then you are still guilty of an offence.

Mouse traps (or poison for that matter) are not missiles so I would say that in itself was the exeption.....

I've been thinking about this too and a ballbearing isn't a missile either, it's a projectile and that's different to a missle and the wording on the Act is fairly specific so you might be ok using it to hunt with after all....having said that it's still best to check with whomever to confirm before you head out with your rubber bands... ;)

Hope that helps clarify and hasn't just made you more confused Matey...lol :)

[R-Bowskill]

And the reason why quiet means of taking game are generally banned in the UK is that they are simply too good and cheap so the peasants can get free food without the lord knowing about it. Guess which section of society makes the laws??? you got it, definately not bushcrafters.

[bambodoggy]

I can't remember who it was but on another bcuk thread about bow hunting somebody mentioned that part of the reason it was outlawed was that when they had the debate and vote in parliment, the MP that was due to stand and speak up for hunting with bows had nipped to the loo and missed his spot so the vote went ahead without any pros being mentioned and it got banned!!!!

I don't know how true that is but it doesn't suprise me one bit..lol :D

[Celtic Dragon]

I think the reason for bow hunting being banned is tied up with them being used for poaching the royal deer.

[Neiltoo]

Hope that helps clarify and hasn't just made you more confused Matey...lol :)

No, that makes alot of sense - I think I was reading with my blinkers on :p

Thanks

[innocent bystander]

I can't remember who it was but on another bcuk thread about bow hunting somebody mentioned that part of the reason it was outlawed was that when they had the debate and vote in parliment, the MP that was due to stand and speak up for hunting with bows had nipped to the loo and missed his spot so the vote went ahead without any pros being mentioned and it got banned!!!!

I don't know how true that is but it doesn't suprise me one bit..lol :D

It's semi-true, but I'm sure it wasn't about bow hunting. Damned if i can remember what it was, but it was mentioned on telly last year. Apparently the debate went on all night, and the one person in favour went for a slash just before the vote....

[BorderReiver]

Here in NJ, everytime they pass a law, they turn more innocent people into criminals :eek:

It's the same here BT. :(

[sourdough]

It's the same here BT. :(

You are right there. Border Reiver, you will be aware Scotland currently has an "Air Rifle Amnesty". Wow, I had better hand mine in then to be a good boy!

Or should I do as my conscience tells me and go to my local Dumfries Air Rifle stockist and buy a few more...before they become illegal. Yep, always go with your conscience.

Sourdough

[MILBRO MAN]

Hi there, i make catapults & collect catapults, and from what i can gather catapults are legal and bows are illegal, is this true? and if so what happens if i convert my catapult to shoot arrows? is this illegal or legal? please help me out folks as i find it hard to understand these laws !!!! thanks

[sam_acw]

The ban on hunting with bows is, in terms of British history, fairly recent - I think 19th century. It's a bit of a travesty really considering the bow is a national icon.
There's a bowhunting association http://www.britishbowhunters.co.uk/
I've seen threads on catapult hunting closed on here before but the general impression seems to be that it's not specifically prohibited therefore not illegal. I'd say that observing all the other wildlife and game rules is important - my personal belief is that catapults are humane for smaller animals as the projectile has greater energy than air rifle pellets for example. Hunting laws tend to have very little link between being humane, logical or possible - it's mostly about excluding people or stopping something that people may enjoy that others feel they shouldn't.
TBH bowhunting is illegal in most of Europe, as for slingshots I don't know. I once asked a Polish forester about laws and he jokingly told me that "the forests are big and the police live in the city" :)

[geforce83]

im not certain but i belive part of the law goes back to medievil times where only the rich and welthy could hunt the kings deer etc. bows were almost a silent weapon and therefore they made the perfect weapon to poach with. i think this where the law came from originally

[British Red]

Bow hunting was not banned until the 1981 Wildlife and Countryside Act


Section 11(1) WCA 1981 prohibits the following methods of killing or taking any wild animal:

<snip>
Using a bow, crossbow or explosive other than firearm ammunition to kill any wild animal.

[Samon]

woah.. thread revival!

so is it legal to hunt with a catty on 'public' land? providing it isn't a protected area (can public woodlands be protected?) and you are not hunting protected species..

do any of the residsent catapult hunters here have any advice on hitting the desired target?? I can hit a bean can in my garden but it feels like all the aiming is 'instinctual' than anything else.

[Expat]

Hi Emdiesse

Catapults are not illegal in Britain but if used or carried as a weapon they become illegal.
Danzo

If you are using it to hunt, then surely it has wondrously just transformed into
"A Weapon"...??

Whatever... I think the general consensus of opinion is that laws relating to
"Hunting" and ""Weapons" are made by people with little idea of use, or
responsibility of individuals concerned. In other words, those promoting the Nanny
State and "dumbing down" of the population at large.....:(

[Tristar777]

Hi. Dont forget if you are on public land it is an offence to hit members of the public walking there too! All in all, you are better and safer for all concerned if you get permission to be on private land and fire away from tracks that others may use. JMO

[Corso]

I'm wondering why it's legal to hun with a cattie, but not with a bow'n'arra..... ?
Probably some ancient by law or something, stop the peaseants uprising maybe ?

because when they drafted the act there was no archery representation....


I would also say its not 100% legal to hunt with a catty - you would have to garentee a clean kill

[richardww]

HI
i got this info from a catapult maker, "FISH" its ok to hunt with a catapult if your good anough to kill what you aim for, if the ammo you use wount kill, its iligel, if you cant hit what you aim for its iligel, if your out on land you have permission to be on shooting cans your ok.

[mrcharly]

HI
if you cant hit what you aim for its iligel,

IANAL, but I simply don't believe that.

For that would be true, it would have to be possible to prove that someone couldn't hit the animal - proving a negative is extremely difficult.

geforce83, it has nothing whatsoever to do with restricting access to bows - in fact, the reverse used to be true and it was an offense *not* to practise with your bow

[Corso]

or someone witness you out with your catty where you hit and animal and it squeeled and limped off into the woodland....

proof or not i could see it hitting a court room quite ealisy under the right circumstances....

[Samon]

so.. is it legal to hunt with a catty on public land here in Britain? i.e no permission directly from anyone, not on private land, killing the animal humanely etc etc etc

[British Red]

What do you mean by "public land"? Almost all land is owned by someone - land might be National Park, common land etc. but it is still owned.

[wattsy]

no its not you have to have permission otherwise you're being a danger to the public. private land, with permission, and competent enough to kill. anything else is poaching

[Cpt-Jack]

so.. is it legal to hunt with a catty on public land here in Britain? i.e no permission directly from anyone, not on private land, killing the animal humanely etc etc etc

Its difficult to determine what actually constitutes "public land" is in this country, if indeed there is any at all. Even places that dont necessarily have any specific owner, such as foreshore, common land and abandoned/nobody-knows-who-owns-it land, i believe may still technically fall under the ownership of the Crown.

Can you hunt with a catapult (or any other legal hunting tool) on public land? I dont think there is a right or wrong answer to that question really. To get a definitive yes or no you would probably have to go through a legal minefield and a lot of test cases in court. I say, save yourself the hassle and stick to hunting with a catapult on private permissions. Or at least do it somewhere so remote that you wont be caught. ;)

[Samon]

What do you mean by "public land"? Almost all land is owned by someone - land might be National Park, common land etc. but it is still owned.

I don't know the technical term but it's fairly obvious what I mean. Land that isn't privately owned, the land that we as the public are allowed to enter and camp on, have fires, play in etc..

So basically, you can hunt with one only if you have permission specifically to do so on the land you are on..? just like with a airgun?

[British Red]

There is almost no land that isn't owned by an individual, company or organisation. Some land has rights associated with it that the landowner cannot change (e.g. commoners rights), some land has access rights, planning laws and conservation rules associated with it (National Parks). The land isn't owned by the public though and the only rights available are those enshrined in law - and only then to the people granted those rights (e.g. only certain individuals have commoners rights). Hunting rights - unless sold or leased - rest with the landowner and you need permission to hunt. There are numerous laws governing land ownership (e.g. below the high tide line the sea shore belongs to the Crown), however, to my knowledge, all land has an owner with whom authority to grant rights to that land rest. It may be different in Scotland or other countries of course - but that is my understanding of English law.

[EdS]

public land is just land open to the public. It is still owned by someone and permission is still required to many things on it. You are unlikely to get permission to hunt on public land (except large organised moorland shoots etc).

The owners of "public land"are generally public bodies ie council, Gov departments or charities ie National Trust, Woodland Trust.

[Vulpes]

I think common sense applies to this one. Anywhere where the general public are wandering about willy nilly - it's not going to be legal. No analysing laws or any other twoddle is necessary. Just use common sense...

[richardww]

mrcharly
am just quoting what a catapult maker says what the law is, i could say i dont belive you know what you saying, it was standerd info in jacks Shed, but seems am more polite, I could go into more detail but look up The Wild mammals Protection Act 1996. prehaps you will belive that
richard

HI
if you cant hit what you aim for its iligel,
IANAL, but I simply don't believe that.

For that would be true, it would have to be possible to prove that someone couldn't hit the animal - proving a negative is extremely difficult.

geforce83, it has nothing whatsoever to do with restricting access to bows - in fact, the reverse used to be true and it was an offense *not* to practise with your bow

[richardww]

Hi
just read my last comment,dident mean it sound like it does, and would like to say i dont hunt, bunnies with catapults,
richard

[British Red]

I think there is a very simple answer to a number of these questions

1. If you want to hunt birds or mammals, you need landowners permission to do so
2. Certain hunting methods are flat out illegal in the UK e.g. bows, self locking snares and toothed spring traps.
3. Whatever your hunting method of choice, if you use it in the wrong way, or on the wrong quarry and cause animal suffering, you are liable to prosecution.

Trying to find loopholes or asking why things are the way they are is pretty pointless. That is the law - rants based upon wishing to use a type of hunting tool or disliking the current laws on land ownership serve only to illustrate a political prejudice, they don't alter the law as it stands. If you dislike property ownership, laws on angling and fish traps, or the rules on taking game, take it up with your political representative or join a sporting rights body (I suggest BASC) - and whilst your at it, please ask them to give us back our handguns :)

Red

[mrcharly]

mrcharly
am just quoting what a catapult maker says what the law is, i could say i dont belive you know what you saying, it was standerd info in jacks Shed, but seems am more polite, I could go into more detail but look up The Wild mammals Protection Act 1996. prehaps you will belive that
richard

HI
if you cant hit what you aim for its iligel,
IANAL, but I simply don't believe that.

For that would be true, it would have to be possible to prove that someone couldn't hit the animal - proving a negative is extremely difficult.


I've have a quick read of that act. Nope, nothing in there about you being required to prove you could hit the animal.

The act is all about avoiding 'unnecessary' suffering. What constitutes 'unnecessary' would depend very much on the circumstances and actions.

If someone shoots an animal 10 times and it is still writhing on the ground in agony, they would be open to prosecution. That is not the same as needing to prove you can hit what you aim for.

[Cpt-Jack]

Forgive me for digging further into this issue, but of interest, where do you think the law stands on hunting with an atlatl, spear or bola? I know game such as deer would be out of the question as there are calibre restrictions on them, but what about vermin? From what i can see, The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 makes no mention of those items.

I dont have any particular interest in hunting with such things myself, im just curious really.


geforce83, it has nothing whatsoever to do with restricting access to bows - in fact, the reverse used to be true and it was an offense *not* to practise with your bow

I believe that duty is still valid in the lawbooks (though obviously not enforced anymore. Which is a shame tbh). Well im okay regardless, because i do practice with my bow in the garden almost every weekend ;)

[richardww]

no comment
richard

[mrcharly]

Forgive me for digging further into this issue, but of interest, where do you think the law stands on hunting with an atlatl, spear or bola? I know game such as deer would be out of the question as there are calibre restrictions on them, but what about vermin? From what i can see, The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 makes no mention of those items.

I dont have any particular interest in hunting with such things myself, im just curious really.


I'm guessing, but if you were seen and someone complained, you might fall foul of the "unnecessary suffering" clause.

It's left open - people don't get prosecuted for killing a rat with a makeshift club. Spearing one would be similar - unless you ended up spearing it 10 times.

TBH, although I've never hunted with a spear, I think it can't be much different to using a bow and arrow, and hence quite difficult to make a quick kill.

[richardww]

mcharly
you need to read the Act more clearly, or go speak to your local police, see what they say, any way what your sugesting is very unhumain, very unsporting, no wounder people wants hunting, fishing etc, banned when people have your views, Please go talk to your local police for advise, "becase after your comments i did,"
Times have changed, and are still changeing, spotsman need to show there reponsible, and humane or all forms of hunting fishing will be banned by the greens
richard
OH, we probley wont agree on this, but i have spoken the my local pc, about how he would view the Act, and what his actions would be,
I am here like you to enjoy the forum, not to endless argu with members, i have had pm,s with people saying there wetting there selves over this, lets agree not to agree, am not going to give you a buzz, by arguing with you.

[mrcharly]

mcharly
you need to read the Act more clearly, or go speak to your local police, see what they say, any way what your sugesting is very unhumain, very unsporting, no wounder people wants hunting, fishing etc, banned when people have your views, P

What do you think I am suggesting?

I strongly suspect you are reading something that isn't there.

As I've said already, the act is all about not inflicting unnecessary suffering. That applies no matter what method of killing you use, whether it be a rifle, poison or something else.

[richardww]

mrcharly
its lovely and sunny, have a nice day

[mrcharly]

Richard, if you are going to say that I am suggesting inhumane acts, etc, on an openly searchable forum, either have the courtesy to respond sensibly, or delete your post.

[richardww]

mcarly
hi tis sunny, please consult your local police. as said prehaps they can explain the ACT to you,
am not going to be bullied into saying your right, because youve been a member longer, etc, i feel one needs to be very carefull before giveing advise that may lead to a police prosicution, the ACTs not 100% black or white, i dont agree with your view, you dont agree with mine, This is a friendly forum, we all got are own views,

I was present when the catapult assaction was founded, and are advise to members people was that the ACT stats that if you cause unnessesary sufering to say a rabbit, its against the law, the way i see the law-ACT is if you cant hit it and kill it, its unnessesary suffering, my local police agree, many spotsman belive in a clean kill, if you do then we agree, we just say it differant,
am no longer a active member of the CA,
richard