And, for a mere £400... [Archive] - BushcraftUK: Community Forum

Rhapsody

03-03-2005, 19:00

No, this can't be serious. I have to believe that this is a booby-trap whereby anyone clicking the 'buy it now' button gets three-thousand volts through their mouse in an elaborate eugenic plot to try and rectify the stagnation of the gene-pool by removing it's most harmful constituents.

Or perhaps it's just that some enterprising net user out there wants to make a quick buck... YOU DECIDE!

arctic hobo

03-03-2005, 19:19

"Reserve not met" - case rested :wink:

beachlover

03-03-2005, 20:12

Didn't this guy try to sell it on British Blades a little while ago and get "advice" to try eBay?

tomtom

03-03-2005, 20:31

dono if it is the same guy BL but if it is then he bought it for 350 a few months back.. :roll:

Graham_S

03-03-2005, 20:51

correct me if i'm wrong but the allan wood bushcraft knife doesn't fit in the hand stitched neck sheath.

tomtom

03-03-2005, 21:02

it doesnt fit in the new belt sheath.. the neck sheath was designed for it iirc!

familne

03-03-2005, 21:42

gismo sold one here today for £150 - puts it in perspective!

tomtom

03-03-2005, 21:54

thats true famline..

but the fact it was sold in less than 10mins also says something :wink:

Gary

04-03-2005, 07:28

The truth of the matter IMO (having used them all now) is that the Micarta handled W/S WOODLORE is the best.

Its almost value for money and comparably (at the price) as good as the rest although I bought mine second hand at £75, as new, and I think that was a more realistic price, I certainly wouldnt wanna pay more fo one.

Using the Micarta one I was unable to notice any difference in it to the Alan Wood one I had when I worked for woodlore (WELL EXCEPT PRICE) Of course there is the aesthetics of the wooden scales but is that worth £100 or more?

If you want a Woodlore get the Micarta one! As my kids would say some people need to get real -- still if there is a market for it people will buy I guess.

Now wheres my credit card??????? :rolmao:

CM Burns

04-03-2005, 07:59

i have had the micarta version since it was released.

i have just last week taken delivery of a brand new Woodlore which i ordered 11 months ago.

obviously the blades are very similar - though the Woodlore had the higher standard of finish.

the micarta handle certainly makes the knife feel heavier. i have not weighed the knives this is merely how they feel to me.

the maple handle on the woodlore has a better shape for my hand but i just love the look of this beautiful wood.

the woodlore comes with the custom-made neck sheath as standard.

IF the micarta is worth £95 then my view is that the Woodlore is indeed worth £195 - for the extra notes you get the knife finished to a higher standard, you get the gorgeous maple handle and you get the neck sheath. as we have seen many times, the RM/AW stamp ensures the value of this knife is going to be maintained :roll:

Squidders

04-03-2005, 16:53

If I had 400 quid of spare cash, I'd buy it...

Because I really want one, I have thought about the WS ones but they don't hold the same appeal to me.

I'm not going to get caught up in the how's and why's because there ARE better knives and there ARE cheaper ones but I really want one.

It's an emotional thing this shopping lark...

tenbears10

04-03-2005, 17:12

Guys, only the Buy it Now is £400 the reserve could be £150. The seller is just chancing his arm maybe some muppet will give him £400 but I bet the reserve is much more reasonable.

Of course the reserve could be £395 but I doubt it. We will see this more and more now. The new batch of knives have just been released by woodlore and some people bought them just to sell for a profit.

If I was Alan I would be very miffed that I was making knives and selling them for £195 only to see them on ebay for £400 the next week. But you can't tell people what to do with something they buy from you.

Tack

04-03-2005, 18:11

TenBears,
Supply and demand?
Tack

Doc

04-03-2005, 18:51

Does anyone pay £400 for a Woodlore and then use it - knowing that the first time you use it you'd knock maybe £100 of it's value?

The trouble here is that for very personal items (a watch, a fountain pen, a knife, a rifle or shotgun perhaps) we don't make strictly utilitarian choices. Aesthetics/'feel'/pride of ownership/history/desire for an heirloom for your children all come into play. However, there has to come a point where common sense has gone out of the window. £400!!!! :yikes:

I'll stick with my Wilkinson Micarta - there may be more of them around but it is functionally at least as good (arguably better), bears the name of a rather famous maker, and anyway, black-hafted knives are traditional in my culture.

Mind you, if they made one with a bog oak or ebony handle, I might be tempted.....

innocent bystander

04-03-2005, 19:01

[QUOTE=Gary]The truth of the matter IMO (having used them all now) is that the Micarta handled W/S WOODLORE is the best.

Using the Micarta one I was unable to notice any difference in it to the Alan Wood one I had when I worked for woodlore (WELL EXCEPT PRICE) Of course there is the aesthetics of the wooden scales but is that worth £100 or more?
QUOTE]

Did you really notice no differance ? I've had the AW for a couple of years and found it fitted my hand nicely, but my micarta WS feels really skinny in the hand. Side by side i'm sure the handle is narrower. Hate to say it, but when delivered the WS was as blunt as a pigs blunt end, compared to the AW. Not now though of course! :wink:

Dave Farrant

04-03-2005, 19:17

Hate to say it, but when delivered the WS was as blunt as a pigs blunt end, compared to the AW. Not now though of course! :wink:

I hate to ask but which is the Blunt end of a PIG?

:?:

innocent bystander

04-03-2005, 19:22

I hate to ask but which is the Blunt end of a PIG?

:?:

Definitely the end without teeth, though i would concede that both ends, on the face of it, are fairly blunt. That is to say, you wouldn't shave with either end. Well not round here anyway... :rolmao:

Bob

04-03-2005, 19:25

The end without teeth??!! :rolmao:

Aha - great minds think alike!!!

Dave Farrant

04-03-2005, 19:30

And back to the Topic...

I would not even consider spending £100 on a knife at present. I think the seller has the collector in mind considering it is brand new and unused. Many times I have been told that for most basic uses you can get a perfectly servicable knife for a tenth of that price.

I will enjoy watching what happens to the bidding though.

Gary

04-03-2005, 19:37

innocent bystander

04-03-2005, 19:42

And on topic, it is a shame to see something that is so obviously designed as a working tool, to be priced so that you wouldn't dream of using it. Just ain't right....

Dave Farrant

04-03-2005, 19:48

The bidding seems to have stopped just short of the normal retail price???

:?: (sarcasm intended)

innocent bystander

04-03-2005, 19:51

[QUOTE=innocent bystander]

Apart from the weight! But thats by the by, personally I prefer the Micarta so I guess I would be bias towards it.

I must admit i use the micarta more, probably because i know it is easier to replace. And it does look kinda good as well (butchcraft ?).

Chopper

05-03-2005, 07:50

I have just checked it and its up to £231.00 :yikes:

Some people have more money than sence....which one of you is it then??

:-)

Andy

05-03-2005, 14:30

I only bid up to a bit less then RRP

JonathanD

05-03-2005, 17:22

I've bid up to £250 out of curiosity, I've got a feeling that this is the fella that wants his £350 back. An extra £55 doesn't seem a bad price to skip the 18 month wait... saying that though, do I really need another? .......especially since I don't use the one I've got since I bought my WS maple..... man I'm messed up.

brucemacdonald

05-03-2005, 21:18

The truth of the matter IMO (having used them all now) is that the Micarta handled W/S WOODLORE is the best.

If you want a Woodlore get the Micarta one! As my kids would say some people need to get real -- still if there is a market for it people will buy I guess.

Now wheres my credit card??????? :rolmao:

A fascinating post as always from Gary, this really does crystallise the whole debate between mass-produced and custom blades.

To me the question boils down to this: how far does the tool make up for the person using it?

This is not confined to knives: in my experience there are parallels across other spheres of activity. For example, consider music. Charlie Parker, the master of the bebop saxophone, frequently had to play gigs with any old horn he could get his hands on as he often had pawned his instrument to pay for his crippling drug habit. Yet he was able to make the instrument sing. To me the inference is clear: as Ray Mears himself says, an expert with a knife can make any knife do his talking. It becomes irrelevant if the knife is a ten-quid Mora, a kitchen knife or a thousand-pound artwork in exquisite Damascus steel. The metal can only do so much; it is the person controlling it who is the key.

So really, it makes no difference whether you use a £200 Alan Wood Woodlore or the Wilkinson Sword model for most of us.

Smallprint: Other knives are available.... :Crazy_071

Best wishes

Bruce

Squidders

05-03-2005, 21:30

The real point is that the knife is a benchmark of high end bushcraft knives and they're uncommon now.

Owning a custom knife is special as you know someone spent time making it, ensuring it was good enough to carry their name. I bet there was a saxomophone that Charlie Parker really wanted for years.

Aside from its usefulness as a tool, items such this are very personal... I personally would buy one if I only got the chance to!

Graham_S

05-03-2005, 21:53

i recently got a ws micarta, it's a lovely knife. it fits my hand well but it's finish is not perfect, and is only to be expected in a mass produced item. however it's not something i can't fix myself.
now i've handled the hand made knife and it was nicer to look at (although i love the "grain" effect of the micarta scales) but for me, i want to use the knife. not just look at it. i prefer the cheaper knife as i could easily replace it if the worst happened.

arctic hobo

05-03-2005, 21:56

In my opinion a personal knife is one made for you, or if you have the skills, made yourself. To me, a knife that lots of people have and is well known isn't very personal. That said, the price you pay, for something that is only a knife for god's sake would make it something very personal indeed! (I'm thinking perhaps a last reminder of your divorced wife or ex-girlfriend).

beachlover

05-03-2005, 22:04

For £400 notes just think of the small bits of kit that would really make a difference. Not only that, think of the money you could spend going to places where you could really bushcraft with a penknife.
This sucker has bought a knife at well over the odds and wants to rip someone else off. Where are we going guys???

sargey

05-03-2005, 22:36

value, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

if i was a rich man, i'd collect knives, i'm not, i don't. i do have a fair few none the less :o): i'd agree that too much is made of must have kit, even knives :yikes:

i particularly resent the inference, that a guy's knife, like a martial artists coloured belt, somehow indicates his level of skill. if you choose to use something different from the accepted fashion, you must be somewhat defective, or you simply don't know enough to know better. this applies wether you're a prybaby, or you use a flimsy mora knife :nono: judge not a man by his knife, but by what he can do with it

boys will be boys, and lust after shiney toys. :naughty: the problem comes when they're taken for more than that, a magic talisman to ward off evil and bestow magic powers upon the holder.

a knife is, after all, still just a knife.

well, except for these ones here, which really do have magic powers....

by the power of greyskull!!!!!!!!!!

:Crazy_071

cheers, and.

tenbears10

05-03-2005, 23:46

Guys, only the Buy it Now is £400 the reserve could be £150. The seller is just chancing his arm maybe some muppet will give him £400 but I bet the reserve is much more reasonable.

If there was a smilie taking a bow I would be using it now.

The reserve is met now at £250. Like I said above he was just trying his luck with the £399 buy it now price.

I have contacted the seller on ebay and he seems genuine (in my opinion) so some people have been a bit rough really he has bought an alan wood from woodlore and he is selling it to make a profit. Who is to say he didn't buy 2 and he's selling this one (possibly for £100 profit) to help finance the one he is keeping?????

What is he doing wrong? If people are willing to pay more so they don't have the wait then fair enough. If you think £250 is too expensive for a knife then you have not spent a lot of time on British Blades where people (many of whom are members here also) regularly spend more on knives they plan to keep in a draw. It is up to you, whatever floats your boat.

Tack

06-03-2005, 00:25

Chopper

06-03-2005, 08:13

£250 each or 3 for a GRAND...Bargin. :shock:

brucemacdonald

06-03-2005, 11:06

The Buy It Now option has disappeared now it has reached its reserve price.

£250 seems fair given the waiting list for these knives.

Best wishes

Bruce

Gary

06-03-2005, 11:21

Hi,
I have to agree with Arctic Hobo. I think it was R.W. Loveless who said that a custom knife is one that a maker had made for a customer according to that customer's exact specifications. A series of knives made to a standard design, albeit one exclusive to the maker, is a benchmade knife.
As such the Woodlore knife is a very high quality benchmade knife but it is not a custom knife.
Regards
Tack

Very good point - a good definition of custom/benchmade and mass production knives.

Also I tend agree with Bruce here.

An expensive knife doesnt make up for a lack of skills, plenty of people own a WL and it never goes out the house, but a good bushcrafter can make use of any knife - something to consider when reading reviews of knives too me thinks!!

Squidders

06-03-2005, 12:24

My knife is custom, I specified various bits and bobs...

If I sell it, it then becomes benchmade?

Gary

06-03-2005, 12:26

My knife is custom, I specified various bits and bobs...

If I sell it, it then becomes benchmade?

What knife do you have Joe?

steve a

06-03-2005, 13:55

I've got a AW Woodlore, a WS Maple Woodlore , and a Mora No1 Classic, all are used' none are collectors or drawer queens' my favorite to use is the £15 red handled Mora.
Along the way I've also owned and used other knives from well known makers and whilst they are nice pocessions and you can appriciate quality and workmanship, for use in the field I think I will stick with the Mora. That is untill the AB arrives.

Squidders

06-03-2005, 13:59

What knife do you have Joe?

The Gene Ingram

Gary

06-03-2005, 14:40

Doh, of course -- you've even put pictures up of it!!

Great Pebble

06-03-2005, 15:14

I tend to think that the value of a knife is roughly equal to how well it cuts stuff.

iceman

06-03-2005, 15:14

My knife was originally a wooden handled Mora I bought in Sweden in 1998. I say was because I rehandled it and it is now a antler handled Mora.

A excellent knife which has served me well all these years.

I have handled a WOODLORE knife thanks to a kind crafter at the WG and to be honest I can not see what all the fuss is about. The woodlore, while well made, is a bulk beast and imo far to big to be practicle. My trusty Mora has served me through thick and thin and I could have bought 50 or more for the price of one Woodlore knife.

Squidders

06-03-2005, 17:07

To me the value of a knife is made up of so many factors...

a. How well the knife can cut things from peeling spuds to hammering through trees.
b. How comfy the knife is for long periods and how likely it is to slip when in use.
c. How well the blade material gets and holds an edge in the field.
d. How robust the knife is through hard use over a long time.
e. The quality of the sheath that holds the knife.
f. How the knife looks to me, for some reason I need a knife to look a certain way.
g. How much I want to have the knife with me over the other knives I own.

a+b+c+d+e+f+g
______________ = Value
price

Tack

06-03-2005, 18:20

Squidders,
You make an excellent argument for the use of an equation in valuing a knife. If you have a knife from a maker who buys in his blades, then heat treats, polishes and fits the handle this is not a true custom knife either. Neither is a knife into which the customer has a limited input a custom knife. If there should be a halfway house between benchmade and custom knives then maybe it should be described as a hybrid. For example, if one had a Woodlore blade fitted with desert ironwood scales by a cutler then this would be a hybrid.
Thoughts anyone?
Tack

Andy

06-03-2005, 18:45

I'd call it a custom

you customised a knife that all ready exists to suit your desire

Tack

06-03-2005, 18:58

Andy,
Maybe you are right. This brings up another side of the argument. Just how many design and manufacturing variables are there which have not been used already?
Assuming that there are a finite number of blade shapes when will we get to the stage where everything has been tried and, therefore, there is no such thing as the true custom knife?
Regards
Tack

Squidders

06-03-2005, 21:21

I think the word you're looking for is bespoke... if I specify EVERYTHING that comprises the knife down to the finest detail, it's a bespoke knife.

Custom, in my opinion (for what it's worth :wink: ) is a knife based on a design that has been modified for a specific person OR task yet is still made with the greatest care and attention.

Benchmade, I think of knives still built by craftsmen but to standard designs not based on specific input from the end user.

I have never thought that the quantity of knives made would effect these descriptions personally... My Gene Ingram is a custom knife, not a bespoke and not a bench made, it's a blank that has been customised by Gene... If I commission a hundred or a thousand I think it's still a custom knife.

Feel free to shoot me down in flames :-P

JonathanD

06-03-2005, 21:36

You have to look at things from other peoples POV's, £400 to some people is pocket change, and not a lot of change at that, I can easily spend £1500 on a suit that is bespoke, no problem at all, alot of people in the same job as me sneer at that, and even Next suits, even though they can afford bespoke themselves easily.

However, the AW Woodlore is not bespoke, but then again neither is it Next :?: What is bumping up the price is not the workmanship or the ruthless eBayer, but the demand, there are simply not enough of these to go round, and maybe production will soon be ceased, the future availability is very hazy.

I lost mine last year, had it for nearly ten years and loved it, I had to pay £275 on eBay for a quick replacement, and regret it not a bit, if it happened again I would be happy with my custom WS Woodlore, but I didn't know about them then and probably would have used the "Buy It Now" option if this guy had been around then, the amount of money would not have been an issue, the availability would.

Perhaps after a load of investigating I could have found a knife at a lot less cost that would have suited me just as well, but a) I couldn't be arsed, and b) How much would I have to spend on knives not freely available to handle before buying, before I settled on one. Loads knowing me :lol:

arctic hobo

06-03-2005, 21:44

My old knife (before :censored: Ryanair stole my luggage :rant:) was handmade for me, to my specification in reindeer horn and birch, in return for a week's farm work (and board and lodging). To me, that's a bespoke knife, and it's what I'd consider a fair exchange. Nothing on earth would make me part with 200 quid for a knife, certainly not for what is essentially a mass produced item.
My thoughts :wave:

tenbears10

06-03-2005, 21:54

It is all relative.

I have seen people spend £2000 on a mountain bike, £10,000 on a horse, £100,000 on a sailing boat so when you look at it like that £200 on the most important bit of kit you need for this 'hobby' is nothing.

But there is no point falling out over it, each to their own. Some of the most knowledgeable people on this forum have spent minimal amounts on their kit and others who know just as much have spent thousands neither one is wrong IMO.

Tack

06-03-2005, 22:08

Tenbears,
This isn't falling out, paradoxically it isn't arguing over semantics either. I think this is a facinating debate.
A great many cutlery collectors spend hours arguing over the relative merits of this steel or that steel, over this sharpening system or that. To my way of thinking this debate is far more fundamental. As bushcrafters we realise how imprtant a good knife can be. To some spending £400 on a knife is ridiculous when they have found that a £50 knife serves their needs. To others the Woodlore is the knife they need and £400 is therefore justifiable.
I am playing devil's advocate but then I have upwards of 20 knives in my collection, everything from a £10.00 japanese lock knife to a £400 Randall. The knife I choose when out in the bush cost me £75.00 which I consider a bargain, but then I've never even seen a Woodlore in the flesh, so I stand to be enlightened.
Regards
Tack

tenbears10

06-03-2005, 22:58

Tack that is a good point. Maybe we should all declare our knife collection so we know where we are coming from. As long as my wife never gets to read the thread :wink:

Bill

Gary

07-03-2005, 08:00

Well I'm in the process of having a knife made totaly to my spec's - it is a combination of all the best design features of knives I've used other the last 20 years and it is my hope this will be the knife for me - incidentially this will be totally hand made, using materials I want and will actually cost me less than a standard Alen Wood or a maple W/S - and will only take about 4/5 weeks (not years) - so I would say that highlights the price margin.

Incidentially did anybody notice ray was using a Mora knife instead of his Woody last night! Wonder why?