View Full Version : Direction indicators
There’s been some excellent points made in the celestial navigation thread, some of them have prompted me to think more about all the ways that we can tell direction.
What signs and observations help people find a direction? :Thinkingo
The growth of Moss was mentioned, there’s also ant hills, tree growth, but I bet there’s a whole lot more, which ones do you use and how reliable are they due to different environments etc?
This is another of those skills that we can start locally, just around our homes and then expand further into the wilderness…. :chill:
TheViking
26-02-2005, 08:33
Churches tower always point west over here, don't know about England. :?: :-)
arctic hobo
26-02-2005, 09:29
It's a very rough guide unless you're going a very long way, but rivers always flow roughly south except in Russia and northern Norway. Plus to find people, follow them as there are always many times more settlements on rivers, and historically 90% of people lived on coasts. :wink:
jake trg
26-02-2005, 09:49
[CENTER]I know i'm probably a bit thick ,but could you please explain how a church tower always always faces west ,surely it would change depending were you stand in relation to the tower .P.S sorry to be a pain :roll:
TheViking
26-02-2005, 10:04
P.S sorry to be a pain
Not at all. :biggthump
[CENTER]I know i'm probably a bit thick ,but could you please explain how a church tower always always faces west ,surely it would change depending were you stand in relation to the tower
The towers direction is straight west, always. The other end is then east. Then you could mark it somehow in a 90 degrees angle to get north and south. Hope that helped. :-)
jake trg
26-02-2005, 10:16
thanks Andy i,m with it now :rolmao: I will have to check it out over here
bothyman
26-02-2005, 10:41
Andy
That took a while for me to work out :yikes:
I think I know what you mean.
The altar always faces East and the spire is at the opposite end usually where the entrance is??
Have I got that right?? :roll: not being a Churchgoer I never thought of that one.
Nice one
MickT (Scotland) :biggthump
TheViking
26-02-2005, 11:10
Andy
That took a while for me to work out :yikes:
I think I know what you mean.
The altar always faces East and the spire is at the opposite end usually where the entrance is??
Have I got that right?? :roll: not being a Churchgoer I never thought of that one.
Nice one
MickT (Scotland) :biggthump
Hehe, never go there myself, ever.
Yeah altar facing east. :biggthump
beachlover
26-02-2005, 12:35
The tower is not always in the West. For example, Westminster Abbey has its tower at the crossing of the transepts and is nearer the East then the West.
A better bet may be the altar in the Eastern end, but then again this may only apply to older churches, as newer ones are not always oriented in the traditional manner. It may also be cheaper to buy a compass given the entrance fees at some churches!
Justin Time
26-02-2005, 12:54
In Wales the Church Towers always point UP! :?:
TheViking
26-02-2005, 12:56
In Wales the Church Towers always point UP! :?:
:rolmao:
its easyest to remember that the main entrance of a church faces south.. the alter is in the east and the tower is on the west end of the church.
Great threads Tone. :super:
Err.. Maybe an obvious one but hasn't been mentioned yet. The Sun. It rises in the east and sets in the west. :biggthump Also locally I use the sea as a Northern indicator. It can be normally be seen from where I am and I always know my orientation relative to it. I once got quite disorientated when I went to the south coast. :roll: :wink:
Wildpacker
26-02-2005, 15:55
Sun navigation does rather rely on being able to see it though. It's amazing how cloud can massively disguise it's true position. Only during daylight hours though...
I used to have one of those lrdg sun compasses designed to bolt to the dashboard. Never used it but it looked impressive.
Danceswithhelicopters
26-02-2005, 16:25
Have a look at houses in general and farmhouses in particular. If not forced by outside influences-street shapes, neighbours, most have the frontage facing south to get the best of the sun. Especially true on older properties built by sensible people! Try it.
PS Try then going to the house and asking which way is south.....
arctic hobo
26-02-2005, 18:24
Great threads Tone. :super:
Err.. Maybe an obvious one but hasn't been mentioned yet. The Sun. It rises in the east and sets in the west. :biggthump Also locally I use the sea as a Northern indicator. It can be normally be seen from where I am and I always know my orientation relative to it. I once got quite disorientated when I went to the south coast. :roll: :wink:
The sun? I know a country not far from here where sometimes the sun never sets and sometimes it is never seen. A bit hard to judge direction then! :?:
The sun? I know a country not far from here where sometimes the sun never sets and sometimes it is never seen. A bit hard to judge direction then! :?:
i know a bunch of countrys where theres no churches....
its probably the case with all these indicators that they only work when you can see them :?:
bambodoggy
27-02-2005, 00:08
i know a bunch of countrys where theres no churches....
Thanks Tomtom....not sure if you meant that to read funny or not but it certainly cheered me up, don't know why but it just tickled me!
bambodoggy
27-02-2005, 00:22
I have no way to explain this other than to say intuition/subconcious mental tracking (as in keeping account rather than actually tracking I mean)....as in I almost always have a rough idea of which way is which....I have no idea how I know....I just seem to... at night if it's clear I often do a quick check with the Great Bear or Plough or Ursa Major or whatever you want to call it and it's a nippy evening in hell when I'm wrong....
I've heard things about Shamen and Aboriginies "feeling" their way when they navigate....now I'm not for a moment claiming to be able to do this but I do think there's something in it...and maybe it's an elevated and more refined method of my mental navigational fumblings.... :?:
Prevelant wind can be used with caution....best to look for grass growing one way rather than just feeling the wind.
Lichen often grows on the south side of trees....
I think it was in the Dirk Gently book "Long Dark Tea-time of the soul" where he discusses the fundamental interconectedness of everything.... and through this he explains that if driving and he gets lost, then he simply picks a car that looks like it knows where it's going and follows it....now he does admit he may not get to where he wanted to go but he does have a point when he continues that he always gets where he's "supposed" to be :super:
OK I got it. If you're lost, go to church. I couldn't agree more. I think the church has been saying that for a long time.
One thing that really messed with my sense of direction was moving to the southern hemisphere. The sun here goes through the northern sky at mid-day. This turns me around 180 degrees. For instance I know in my head that I live north of the city but in my mind it is due south. I've lived here for a total of seven years and it hasn't made a difference.
I just spent a year in the States and my sense of direction worked great. I think such things get buried really deep in the brain. I'm very dependant on a compass down here.
I found out the hard way that comapsses have to be made for the specific hemisphere they will be used in. All of my North American compass needles pop up at an angle and rub on the face. The needles are weighted to align themselves with the magnetic field in the vertical and horizontal planes. If you switch hemispheres it throws them off. That part wasn't included in my public school education. Mac
I recal being told that the bark on one side of a tree is rougher than the other if it is solitary and this was due to the amount of light that it gets, obviously this does not work with forests or woodland, I think I have something somewhere about it.
Generally I do not rely nature as it is dependant on light or prevailing weather conditions (if you are a stranger in a strange land how are you to know??).
The sun and the stars generally work well enough when you can see them. :-)
I've heard things about Shamen and Aboriginies "feeling" their way when they navigate....now I'm not for a moment claiming to be able to do this but I do think there's something in it...and maybe it's an elevated and more refined method of my mental navigational fumblings.... :?:
I think it was in the Dirk Gently book "Long Dark Tea-time of the soul" where he discusses the fundamental interconectedness of everything.... and through this he explains that if driving and he gets lost, then he simply picks a car that looks like it knows where it's going and follows it....now he does admit he may not get to where he wanted to go but he does have a point when he continues that he always gets where he's "supposed" to be :super:[/QUOTE]
I'm not a shamen, but I think we can all be aborigines in the land we know well.
You can feel water flow in the land sometimes, rivers (well in Scotland!) eventually lead to the sea. Might meander through a loch or two on the way :-) but they get there.
I don't know how to describe the flow clearly, it's like a gentle pull; don't think too hard on it, just be quietly aware of it inside, something tingling within the nerves like light, even when the sun is hidden in the clouds you can know where it is, the flow's brighter/quicker on one side...sorry, not making myself too clear. Know your land and it's water sheds!
I can't do it but my sons *always* seem to know which way is North, even when they were very little boys.
Might be interesting to play around with these sort of things on a moot where there are enough people around to make sure no-one gets too lost :-)
I think D. G. has it right, but I can usually get where I'm needing. The car in front does seem to know the road when you don't, doesn't it?
Too early on a good morning for this, going for a walk.
Cheers,
Toddy
Toddy
moss grows on the south side of a tree..
(when in auzz) Termite mounds point in certain direction.. i cant remember which though.. someone will have to fill in the gap here :roll:
and remember the talk a little while ago that rocks which have spit due to hot sun or such like often do so on a north/south direction :o):
Are you all familiar with the book "finding your way without map or compass" by Harold Gatty? It's quite an old book, so the format is a bit odd, but it's generally broken down into chapters about using the different senses, about finding your way in different types of scenery (desert, forest, at sea, etc) and address things like walking in circles and a 'sixth sense' for direction finding. I'm with him on that one: he says that people that seem to have a sixth sense for direction finding are simply extremely experienced and well practiced. Take a bushman and show him kids in the bronx playing basketball, or the way that we can cross busy roads practically with our eyes closed, and he'll think it's super-natural!
I've just had a look on amazon and it's still available. finding your way without a map (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/048640613X/qid=1109578595/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_8_1/026-8434216-6566869)
Cheers,
Martin
bothyman
28-02-2005, 08:20
Are you all familiar with the book "finding your way without map or compass" by Harold Gatty? It's quite an old book,
philaw
Thanks for that, it seems it could still be available,
>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/048640613X/qid=1109577588/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_8_1/202-8452884-8618244
I have put it on my Wish List.
Has anyone used Pendulum Dowsing for finding a direction??
I have used the L rods for dowsing for a while and was asked to try using a pendulum by a Friend who is really into the dowsing stuff.
I have asked it for directions, North, South,East, & West and it always gets it right also asked it the way home and that works too.
It scares the hell out of me, but it works.
I have done a lot of other stuff with it too, but that isn't bushcrafty stuff.
MickT
:wave:
bambodoggy
28-02-2005, 10:24
Ahhhhh!!! I'm a habitual book buyer!!!! Just ordered a copy from Amazon....thanks guys! :wink:
its easyest to remember that the main entrance of a church faces south.. the alter is in the east and the tower is on the west end of the church.
That doesn't always work though -you do get bizzare local happenings that mean that individual churches might not be facing where you might think.
If you've got a piece of iron or steel ( such as a pin ) five or stout blows to the top usualy magnetises it enough to act as a compass. My punch is now magnetic enough to pick up rat tail files.
I've played around with pendulums and I'd never believe them capable of answering a question any more than a rock is - makes about as much sense as map dowsing. Certainly not one to trust when you really need to know.
In the field with a hazel stick however......
I've dowsed the water supply to my house using trad techniques and the location of some lost clothing using the method in Tom Brown's book.
I must try direction!
bambodoggy
28-02-2005, 12:33
Just a thought on Churches..... ok to be fair you have to be fairly close to see this but just about every church I've ever seen has a weather vain on the top of it....and these more often than not have the N/S/E/W points on them so you can see which way the wind is blowing....
I'd say the above is far more accurate than trying to work out which alter is where and which way the towers and doors face!
Do we have any Muslims on this site? They have to pray to the east several times in a day....surely they don't all carry compasses.... Muslims out there...how do you find East if you're out and about? Or can you ask your parents/grandparents how they do/didn't it? Many thanks in advance. :lol:
bothyman
28-02-2005, 13:02
I've dowsed the water supply to my house using trad techniques and the location of some lost clothing using the method in Tom Brown's book.
I must try direction!
Thats how I started messing about looking for the water supply with L Rods, which were made from two bits of fence wire .
Then went on to finding bits of metal, throw a small piece of metal on the ground and see if the rods cross when you walk over it.
Some people say it is something to do with the Earths magnetism
But the pendulum is something else, how does that know which way to go?
It is supposed to be some inner thing, intuition or something like that, so I am told, perhaps someone knows the answer??
I always remember the Pagan Ethic: "If it harms none, do what thou wilt"
or in the words of Bob Dylan "Don't criticise what you don't understand"
it seems to work and I don't know why. but who am I to argue.
MickT :roll: :yikes: :wave:
The sun? I know a country not far from here where sometimes the sun never sets and sometimes it is never seen. A bit hard to judge direction then! :?:
No worries there then. :biggthump
The point that the sun is lowest in the sky is north, If your talking about the land of nog. :o): It might not always be easy to work out the direction using only one method for all parts of world, night and day, summer or winter, that's why we have compasses I suppose.
arctic hobo
28-02-2005, 16:53
Do we have any Muslims on this site? They have to pray to the east several times in a day....surely they don't all carry compasses.... Muslims out there...how do you find East if you're out and about? Or can you ask your parents/grandparents how they do/didn't it? Many thanks in advance. :lol:
The ones I have seen have compasses on their prayer mats - not sure if they carry them everywhere (they're quite big after all) or even if they have to use them to pray but that could be it.
I recal being told that the bark on one side of a tree is rougher than the other if it is solitary and this was due to the amount of light that it gets, obviously this does not work with forests or woodland, I think I have something somewhere about it.
You also find that trees are bushier and have larger growth on their south side; this is the reason why all twisted trees in one hemisphere are twisted the same way (prevailing winds).
I got told by a Gurkha that if you draw an imaginary line through the horns of the moon, this gives a north south indication. Can anybody verify this?
Motorbike Man
06-03-2005, 11:26
While I was adding the navigating with out a map book to my wish list, this one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0070211205/ref=pd_huc_sim_1_3/026-5524798-0375614) came up as a reccomended book. Anyone got any ecperiance of it. I kind of like the idea of having a go at making some of the stuff in it.
innocent bystander
06-03-2005, 11:57
On the subject of dowsing i heard a wonderful story when i visited St Austells brewery. They needed to find all the old water pipes to trace a leak, so they borrowed a load of metal detectors and issued them to all the staff, who then drew the results on maps. Apparently it looked like spagetti. They were all wearing steel toecapped boots. So they got a dowser in, who went straight to the leak....
arctic hobo
06-03-2005, 14:45
While I was adding the navigating with out a map book to my wish list, this one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0070211205/ref=pd_huc_sim_1_3/026-5524798-0375614) came up as a reccomended book. Anyone got any ecperiance of it. I kind of like the idea of having a go at making some of the stuff in it.
You couldn't have known but this book is fantastically useful to me... thanks! :You_Rock_
I have officially the world's best idea in the pipeline and this will be extremely useful... I may say more about it soon :o):
Arctic Hobo
"....I have officially the world's best idea in the pipeline and this will be extremely useful... I may say more about it soon :o):[/QUOTE]"
Okay....all together now!
" :note: Why are we waiting, why yy are we waiting!" :note2: :note:
Aww go on :-) , give us a hint, O thinker of the World's Best Idea.
cheers,
Toddy
arctic hobo
06-03-2005, 21:34
Okay....all together now!
" :note: Why are we waiting, why yy are we waiting!" :note2: :note:
Aww go on :-) , give us a hint, O thinker of the World's Best Idea.
cheers,
Toddy
Patience is a virtue as they say :nana:
But since you asked so nicely, it involves mountains, Nordic history, Greenland kayaks and lots of bushcraft. I'm not saying any more than that :tapedshut :o):
Motorbike Man
06-03-2005, 23:58
You couldn't have known but this book is fantastically useful to me... thanks! :You_Rock_
I have officially the world's best idea in the pipeline and this will be extremely useful... I may say more about it soon :o):
Glad to be of service :biggthump
I think :?:
What did I do? :rolmao:
Time will tell :o):
Patience is a virtue as they say :nana:
But since you asked so nicely, it involves mountains, Nordic history, Greenland kayaks and lots of bushcraft. I'm not saying any more than that :tapedshut :o):
I know where there's a seaworthy Birlinn (Scottish version of a longship).....they managed the Irish sea ok, wonder if they fancy a go at the North? And the crew owe me some favours :-)
"Patience is a virtue, possess it if you can,
You'll find it in a woman, but seldom in a man." :roll:
Okay, I'll be good.
Cheers,
Toddy
After recovering from 'The Great BCUK Crash' of 2005, I am intrigued to know what this great idea was, and if it has come to fruition yet!
Motorbike Man
15-04-2005, 22:24
After recovering from 'The Great BCUK Crash' of 2005, I am intrigued to know what this great idea was, and if it has come to fruition yet!
me too, especially as I seemed to contribute something to it.
Somehow :confused: :D
Just reading this and one essential mode of direction-finding has been omitted (at least for urban dwellers). Satellite dishes always point south (as geostationary satellites are always placed over the equator)
Excellent point Kirruth, we often forget that bushcraft is something 'everyday' no matter where we are. Navigation can be hard in all environments and there's a broad scope of skills, and tricks to learn :D
Ogri the trog
01-05-2005, 23:19
As an aside,
Someone mentioned a few pages ago about farm-houses facing south (well, here in Blighty anyway). You'll find that if there is a pantry, it'll be on the northern side of the dwelling - being the coldest side away from any sun!
Good point about the satellite dishes Kirruth - could be of help when we get lost whilst driving!
Ogri the trog
arctic hobo
02-05-2005, 10:42
me too, especially as I seemed to contribute something to it.
Somehow :confused: :D
Hehehe folks, wish I could keep it top secret but it's too fun to. Well basically, think Norway, the Shetlands, the Faeroes, Iceland and Greenland - all the old Viking strongholds. Think the highest points of each (Galdhøpiggen, Ronas Hill, Slaettaratindur, Hvannadalshnúkur, and Gunnbjørn Fjeld). Think Greenland kayaks, think using only technology available 800+ years ago, think a mixture of mountaineering and tightened-belt flat-out sea crossings in absurdly unsuitable craft (one of which resides in our flat half-finished), and that's about what there is. All I need to do now is become superhumanly fit, find two more people the same, with a similarly insane mindset, get some sponsorship and wait for August 2007. :D
Wow. If i'm thinking what your thinking, your thinking up something pretty good. :cool:
I always thought you were writing a book. :rolleyes:
arctic hobo
03-05-2005, 19:41
Doing that too - that's why I'm on the computer all evening :rolleyes: Plus all the training, it's a wonder I have time to sleep never mind eat! :eek: Good news is I have a contract with a magazine starting October so I'm able to afford going back to college for a year next year (I took a really bad choice of A levels), although then I'll have even less time! Think I'm clinically insane :D
Churches tower always point west over here, don't know about England. :?: :-)
I think I see what you mean but the church towers in Ireland tend to point straight up :D
most churches lay east - west, and apparently have a cross in the southern area.. don't know if thats still true
Motorbike Man
22-05-2005, 23:38
Hehehe folks, wish I could keep it top secret but it's too fun to. Well basically, think Norway, the Shetlands, the Faeroes, Iceland and Greenland - all the old Viking strongholds. Think the highest points of each (Galdhøpiggen, Ronas Hill, Slaettaratindur, Hvannadalshnúkur, and Gunnbjørn Fjeld). Think Greenland kayaks, think using only technology available 800+ years ago, think a mixture of mountaineering and tightened-belt flat-out sea crossings in absurdly unsuitable craft (one of which resides in our flat half-finished), and that's about what there is. All I need to do now is become superhumanly fit, find two more people the same, with a similarly insane mindset, get some sponsorship and wait for August 2007. :D
Sounds like one huge adventure, almost wish I could go with you.
Almost ;)