View Full Version : Sulphur matches
Having got through most of the sulphur matches I made last year I'm about to make another batch (much bigger this time).
Last time I used pipe smokers spills with the ends trimmed to shape but they seem a bit narrow compared to the odd image of original / surviving matches I have seen. Unfortunately none of these images have details of their dimensions.
Does anyone have access to a original to get the size / length (yeah I know this is stitch counting but it's cheaper than therapy), the proportions I can work out from the images.
No doubt there was a lot of variation but I'd like to work to an original if I can.
I'm thinking of making extras to trade for those who don't want the hassle or smell of making their own.
ATB
Tom
jdlenton
28-02-2010, 00:16
I'd be interesetd in the results when you make some hope you find what your looking for
Cheers
I've found a couple more pics from the Science Museum (copyright so can't put them up) but for the size I'd have to guesstimate from the size of the human hand.
Heres a pic I put up before of my old tinder box with the two types of sulphur match I've found. The ones on the right are spot on copies of the ones I saw in the museum at Lancaster (early to mid 19th C I reckon) but the earlier double ended ones are thinner than they ought to be I think.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_dVcnpchhsqI/SjUkdqD8OQI/AAAAAAAAAOE/I3vOjXoP6_w/s576/sulphurmatches2.jpg
They work fine. One thing I have learned is don't double dip them as a thin layer lights just as easily as a thick but drips a hell of a lot less when you have got it alight!
ATB
Tom
PS I've seen a drawing of a sulphur melting pot for match making that was credited to Lewes museum so I have e-mailed them to see if they still have it. Its a bit far to go and have a shufti!
Interesting....... you don't fancy making a tutorial when you make your next batch do you? I for one would love to see the process!
and as you say I'm sure there we loads of variation (probably local variations) just like most old crafts so wouldn't think you would be far off if you just made what seems right to you ;)
i also would like to see a tutorial :)
Chris the Cat
28-02-2010, 16:40
More please...!
C da C.
British Red
28-02-2010, 16:52
If its as good as the journey to the rushlight it should be in a book, not a tutorial
Red
British Red
28-02-2010, 18:10
Tombear,
Would it be terribly cheeky if I asked you also to tell me where you got your sashcord and how you prepared it? I think a salt petre solution was involved and a certain type of cord.
Having had great fun with a couple of neighbours recently getting out the flint and steel (after a few whiskys) I feel some slow match and sulphur matches coming on. If it was saltpetre did you use potassium nitrate or sodium?
TIA mate
Red
jdlenton
28-02-2010, 18:39
Tombear,
Would it be terribly cheeky if I asked you also to tell me where you got your sashcord and how you prepared it? I think a salt petre solution was involved and a certain type of cord.
Having had great fun with a couple of neighbours recently getting out the flint and steel (after a few whiskys) I feel some slow match and sulphur matches coming on. If it was saltpetre did you use potassium nitrate or sodium?
TIA mate
Red
Thats what it !!!!!!! i was thinking of asking how it was made and used
can i be even cheekier and ask what are the rest of the contents of the tin. I can see the flint, steal and matches but what else is in there
It would be very interesting to know
Again TIA
James
British Red
28-02-2010, 18:48
hmmm jute? Amadou? Fatwood slivers and....spare cotton cord?
Total guess but I'm going for it :)
jdlenton
28-02-2010, 18:52
hmmm jute? Amadou? Fatwood slivers and....spare cotton cord?
Total guess but I'm going for it :)
lets see if your right when tom get back i recon there's a candle in there but not sure
Hi All
sorry for the delay, I got saddled with making the youngest a Roman costume for school tomorrow (found out this AM) so I've been sewing all day.
'Happy to do tutorials when I get the chance, the sulphur is definately a outdoor job, with a stiff breeze to blow it away from you. they are dead easy to make, the sulphur, and for that matter, the potassium nitrate where from gardening suppliers. I'll try not to ramble so much this time ;-{D)
I've e-mailed the Science Museum to see who is in charge of the Bryant and May collection to see if I can find out more details of the examples of sulphur match. I'd like to do some anal retentively authentic ones as well as a whole batch of users. Theres also a wall mounted match holder that seems quite a common item (basically a metal or wooden plate with 2 pairs of holes in it and two cords with a weight on the bottom to keep the 2 cords drawn tight agaist the bundle of matches (1 pic will make sense of it all). Anyway I think it will make a nice winter project to make one as well.
If you Google "Linen Rope" unless the situation has improved you'll only find it at Bondage sites
http://www.bound-to-please.co.uk/linen.html (where I got mine, excellent service)
Or at ones specialising in reproduction military drums such as
http://www.cooperman.com/ropedrums/drumparts.htm
Who were much more expensive.
In my experiance the linen stuff is supperior to the cotton sash cord.
All I did was soak the cord in a strong solution of potasium nitrate then dry it on a radiator. I believe in the original process the cord was boiled before hand to get rid of impurities and lime may have been involved but the version I made catches a spark fine and smoulders away merrily with the odd hiss and spark.
If we get a summer this year I've said I'm going to get the lads to pee in a bucket at the top of the garden and see what I can evaporate out of that. It's far enough from the neighbours not to bother them...
What I kept in the old tin was a steel made by Ragnar, a small paraffin candle, some slivers of Maya stick, plumbers tow (indeed made of Jute), some rough lumps of pale looking flint that never sparked well and some rubbish char cloth made from pure cotton I could never get to light properly.
I also kept the linen slowmatch and sulphur matches in it.
ATB
Tom
for BR:
Hattersley Narrow Fabrics for all kinds of wick etc:
http://www.hattersley.co.uk/index.htm
Also the reason why Harris Tweed as 1/2 width as it was Hatersley that developed the smallware loom - and then set up a foundry to make them
British Red
01-03-2010, 08:02
Thanks gentlemen! Nice to see some really positive interesting stuff on the boards :)
Dear All
just got in and A nice chap at the Science Museum has replied to me with a spread sheet of the contents of the Bryant and May collection and to save me time another which lists all the sulphur matches they hold with some details about them.
Once I have digested this lot I will see about getting more details, images etc.
The spread sheets them selves are fascinating reading, referring to all sorts of firelighting items such as Japanese char made from silk...
More later....
ATB
Tom
Melonfish
01-03-2010, 16:54
potassium nitrate? so its a mix of KN03 and sulphur? interesting! i'd love to see the tutorial?
don't you also use beeswax on these or am i being silly? (likely)
jdlenton
01-03-2010, 17:16
Dear All
just got in and A nice chap at the Science Museum has replied to me with a spread sheet of the contents of the Bryant and May collection and to save me time another which lists all the sulphur matches they hold with some details about them.
Once I have digested this lot I will see about getting more details, images etc.
The spread sheets them selves are fascinatig reading, referering to all sorts of firelightng items such as Japanese char made from silk...
More later....
ATB
Tom
those sound very cool indeed would love to hear about your findings as an whengoodjob
Sorry its me talking about two seperate things at once.
The potassium nitrate is just for making the slowmatch and the sulphur is used pure for the matches.
I've read about people (reenactors) dipping the spills in molten wax and then into sulphur powder but I've never seen a primary source that says do it that way or a example that looks like that.
The short version of the tutorial would run
"Get stick. Insert end of stick in sulphur made runny by heating it up, remove stick and allow to cool. Match made."
The proper version will be suitably long winded, refer to primary sources and regional variations and have pics ;-{D)
ATB
Tom
One method of doing large batches was to have a mass of spills with a string tied tightly around the middle of the bundle. then you would twist each end in the oposite direction so the spills would be fanned out at each end, then you would dip the entire end in a big pot of molten sulphur, stand it on the other end until it had cooled then repeat the dipping at the other end, let that cool then twist the ends back so it became a compact mass of matches again for shipping or storage. Ingenious!
I'm looking to buy/scrounge /swap a few items for this project
A piece of elm 12" by 5" by 1" or maybe 3/4s of a inch thick
A bunch of oat straws, the thick part 9" + long
A bunch of hemp stalks as above (just the stalks, no leaves please) I believe there is a form being commercially grown now?
Also can any one describe the sulphur covered cotton threads I have seen mentioned. As used in Germany and Mexico?
ATB
Tom
Well, this is what happens when you sub contract a job.
Last night I asked herself to see if "Bound to please" had got any linen rope in yet and to use her paypal (I don't have it, it would only lead to trouble...) and wandered off to make some slow match from some cotton sash cord.
Anyway, much later I wandered back down and asked her if it went through and from under the duvet heard a muffled "yes, fine"
Sooooo today I read the electronic invoice and I see that I failed to give a salient detail when I asked her to buy it, how much.
Sooooo in the next couple of days we should be getting 65 foot of best quality linen bondage rope (thats 20 m to you europeans) rather than the 2 or 3 yards I sort of forgot to specify...
Oops.
So if anyone wants to make their own slow match or superior char rope let us know. We paid £1.20 a yard for it.
ATB
Tom
cheers Tom you can put me down for a couple of yards
I'll try a bigger version of this
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j274/QDanT/clipperspark.jpg
from post #14 in super firesteels (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55237)
I've sent you a PM
cheers Danny
tenderfoot
17-04-2010, 12:12
Given where you sourced the excess material maybe you would be better advertising it on a different kind of forum? Where users will appreciate it for its intended use? softness, pliability, strength, ease of knotting?
I refer to a drumming forum of course...
Given where you sourced the excess material maybe you would be better advertising it on a different kind of forum? Where users will appreciate it for its intended use? softness, pliability, strength, ease of knotting?
I refer to a drumming forum of course...
Oddly enoughy the middle son is badgering me to make a slightly scaled down 17th C military drum (somewhere else on here is a thread with me asking if anyone makes their own vellum) so if I can crack the drumskins-cost-a-bomb and steam-bending-the 1/4"-oak-veneer problems some of it may actually go on a drum. Jeeze they do saddle me with odd jobs!
Oh the cotton sash cord stuff I made yesterday for me and James works OK, just 2 tea spoons of KN03 in half a milk pan of water seems to have given it the right pep to keep it smouldering. I boiled up the cord a couple of times in fresh water before hand incase there was anything flame retardent on it. Not as good as the linen but the cotton cord is freely available and dirt cheap.
ATB
Tom
cheers Tom you can put me down for a couple of yards
I'll try a bigger version of this
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j274/QDanT/clipperspark.jpg
from post #14 in super firesteels (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55237)
I've sent you a PM
cheers Danny
No problem, not received a PM yet. I'll let you know when I get it.
Incidentally the BtP website said they only had 200 metres in, so 180 now.
ATB
Tom
Hi Tom when I tried to send PM I got :-
tombear has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.
So I sent you an E-mail via the site
cheers Danny
Hi Tom when I tried to send PM I got :-
tombear has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.
So I sent you an E-mail via the site
cheers Danny
Good lord! How do I change it so anybody can PM me? I'm sorry I didn't know it was set to do that.
Not had owt so far, try
tombear01@googlemail.co_m
remove underbar.
My apolgies to anyone whos tried to gety intouch and been bounced.
ATB
Tom
Good lord! How do I change it so anybody can PM me? I'm sorry I didn't know it was set to do that.Tom
User CP
Settings & Options
Edit Options
Messaging & Notification
Private Messaging
Enable Private Messaging You kneed a tick in the Box
hope this helps cheers Danny
User CP
Settings & Options
Edit Options
Messaging & Notification
Private Messaging
Enable Private Messaging You kneed a tick in the Box
hope this helps cheers Danny
It certainly did, I've ticked the right (hopefully) boxes and unticked the one that said "only from friends or moderators" or words to that effect and hopefully thats sorted.
Thanks!
ATB
Tom
Big Geordie
18-04-2010, 01:27
Hi Tom,
Sent you a PM.
G
Hi Folks
just ordered a KG of potassium nitrate from hobby chemicals, with postage its cost us just shy of 10 quid.
If anyone is really stuck getting their own and only wants a ounce or two to make some match or supe'd up char PM us and we'll sort something out at cost.
ATB
Tom
Linen ropes arrived
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_dVcnpchhsqI/S81xQngIzFI/AAAAAAAABq8/7E-YU8-Jurg/s576/linenrope.jpg
Last time it was black tissue tied up with purple ribbon but I think they have caught on we are not their normal clientele, mind you the note did warn us it was stiffer than the last batch...
I will not be tying anyone up, unless we catch a burgler. I sleep in the buff and have one of those artic issue gimp masks in my hat draw next to the one with the Oakwood tool in it...
The Kn03 has also been posted, will work out whats going where when thats arrived.
Cheers
Tom
Spare linen rope now all accounted for.
ATB
Tom
Picked up something a bit more aesthetically pleasing to store the sulphur matches in today for £2. I'm guessing it's some modern copy (although on the back where it hasn't been polished to death the brass looks ancient) brought back for granny to keep her nick knacks in but when the parlour is finished I'll fix it up next to the fire place.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_dVcnpchhsqI/S_MH6pj0dbI/AAAAAAAABw8/5MqolUgcqjk/s576/MatchHolderPiolished.jpg
ATB
Tom
Today, much to my shame, we went to the local museum (which is just 2 or three miles down the road) for the first time in 5 years and low and behold there were sulphur matches in a display of firelighting equipment.
Luckily we had a camera with us and some of the shots came out OK.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_dVcnpchhsqI/TArdY7v0JTI/AAAAAAAABzM/Yjlmfgb8jDM/s576/RawSulphur01.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_dVcnpchhsqI/TArdZhGkf9I/AAAAAAAABzQ/i53lQrY8OUM/s576/RawSulphur02.jpg
They date from the 1870s at latest and I was pleased to see how close thery were to the matches I made by spitting some pine. The lenght is about 6 inches and they are very thick. evidentaly this was a selling point as the seller's cry was "long and strong!"
The case also contained a candle mold, 2 tinder boxes, about 5 steels and a tin candle safe amongst other items.
ATB
Tom