View Full Version : Stainless or not?
Now that the link between Ali and Altizimmers (sp?) has been disproven i find myself liking Ali cookware more and more. The swedish army mess kit being one good example so the question is weight for weight what is better and why.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/bearclaw/billys.bmp
This set of Ali pots and pans cost half the price of most stainless kits, they have bail arms and so are great for use over the camp fire, the large pot takes 6 pints the smallest 2 (total of 12 pints in all three) the lids can be used as a frying pan, plate and mug respectively. And it weighs next to nothing, in fact the whole kit weighs a few grammes less than a 14cm zebra.
So what do you think is better and why?
Squidders
24-02-2005, 08:57
I prefer stainless myself... I don't know why but I do.
I think it's less prone to things sticking to it.
Thats your cooking Joe - but good point, personal preference has a lot to to with it too I guess.
I vaguely remember from 'The New Way of the Wilderness' the author suggesting Aluminium for everything except the frying pan - where he advised steel to reduce sticking.
'New' in this context refers to fifty years ago of course...
Does aluminium distort with prolonged use over a fire? My Swedish army kit hasn't so far, but usually its used on the trangia burner.
I really do think that the stainless is easier to clean, the main thing that Ali has going for it is weight. It's not as tough, although probably tough enough. I think i'm right in saying that SS distributes heat a bit better as well.
I really like the trangia duossal pots, it has the best of 2 worlds aluminium on the outside and stainless on the inside and it does not weigh much.
Stainless steel is shiner and prettier than aluminium. :wink:
Stainless steel is shiner and prettier than aluminium. :wink:
I dont want my kit to be new and shiny :wink:
Squidders
24-02-2005, 10:20
So, there you have it Gary... Stainless is easier to clean, cooks more evenly, looks better and is stronger...
...but it's heavier.
Your choice innit.
I don't want my kit to stay new and shiny. I want it to start new and shiny so that every dent, chip, stain and burn is a memory.
Stainless, Aluminium? Pah! Titanium (http://www.snowpeak.com/Gear/Gear_index.html) is the way to go!
http://www.snowpeak.com/Pics/Product%20jpegs/STW001Tsm.JPG
Titanium? Pah. Call yourself a bushcrafter? I whittle mine or make clay pots.
:o):
jamesdevine
24-02-2005, 11:00
A you beat me too it. :-)
I prefer SS for all the reasons given above, but I do love my Ali Swedish Army trangia and fires are restricted it is the billy of choice.
Regards,
James
Personally its Stainless for me, as before much easier to clean conducts heat better and for me its "nicer" to use - also if you're on a stove you're less likely to burn a whole in the bottom of it (yep thats been done before). Titanium is defiantely better in terms of weight and strength - although has dire heat conducting properties.
for non stick it has to be cast iron
I use what's cheap and handy. I don't really mind if it's steel or alu
I vaguely remember from 'The New Way of the Wilderness' the author suggesting Aluminium for everything except the frying pan - where he advised steel to reduce sticking.
'New' in this context refers to fifty years ago of course...
Does aluminium distort with prolonged use over a fire? My Swedish army kit hasn't so far, but usually its used on the trangia burner.
You might be right there Doc, although I guess it also depends on what/how you fry - I have one of those little wok things that is badly warped and thats stainless.
So the general concesus is stainless is more hygenic - why?
Cooks more evenly - over an open fire? where we generally/mostly boil water? I rarely cook a meal in my pots and on those occations I have I generally sit watch the pot, play with the fire and stir to contents! Also added to this is the question of shape, i/e a large flat surface say a frying pan will heat up and more evenly much quicker than a deep sided billy can so whats better there?
Toughness probably goes with weight - so swings and round about there.
As for caste iron ......... pack horse time me thinks!!
Especially with Trangia's you need to be careful how you store Alu pots. The aluminium can oxidise and you can get pitting that makes a perfect home for bacteria.
Make sure they are cleaned immediately and put away dry - dont store your trangia with meths in the burner and preferably store them opened up with the parts seperate.
I recently dug out my mini trangia that had been put away for a couple of months - it must have been damp or not totally clean when it went away cos 2 of the pots are unusable now - covered in grey oxide with pitting in the base of each.
I've seen similar on several occasions.
George
Good point George - I usually dry my pots stainless and ali over the fire after use just to make sure they are dry. Regardless of hygiene issues I dont like putting anything wet back in my pack!
Interesting thread so far though.
Seems to be an inexorable mountain of evidence building for Titanium in this thread.... :o):
If someone gave me Ti pots I wouldn't complain. But the price puts it out of my budget. Ti doesn't make for good pots anyway. the conductivity is worse then either SS or Alu
Seems to be an inexorable mountain of evidence building for Titanium in this thread.... :o):
MMMMMMM What are titaniums pros and cons? I heard it turns the food black?
Is it one of these new fades - like Ali - will it be found to be/ or believed to be bad in some way somewhere down the line?
No it is not the pot's fault that the food turns black...that happens because I'm a rubbish cook and tend to burn everything! :o):
Seriously though, the metal seems as inert as stainless and ,certainly the pots I have, are so thin that any reduced heat conductivity relative to stainless is not that relevant.
thin pots are a problem if your cooing over a heat source that doesn't cover the entire base. I guess it isn't a problem when cooking over a fire though.
thin pots are a problem if your cooing over a heat source that doesn't cover the entire base. I guess it isn't a problem when cooking over a fire though.
That would depend on the pot and method used, most mugs and pots are generally stuck to one side of the fire to allow retreival - even a pot hung over a fire will generally get heat on one side more than the other due to wind shifting the convecting currents!
dave750gixer
24-02-2005, 13:25
I tend to use titanium when hiking/camping and stainless when bushcrafting. The Ti beacause it is rediculously light weight and the stainless since it is easier to scour with sand or grass roots to clean and that puts scratches on Titanium. I use and abuse stainless but considering the cost :shock: want to keep the titanium shiny :o):
The other difference is the titanium gets to sit on a nice stable gas stove whereas the stainless gets used on real fires more and the extra mass seems to let me knock it over, spill it and generally have an oops that leaves me hungry a lot less.
I'm definitely in the Ti camp. Absolutely love the stuff. My only complaint is that I have not found a decent pot with a bail. But I have several or more Ti pots and cups and they are all super. I do like my stainless pots though but the older I get, the lighter I want your pack so I look at it strictly from a practical point of view. When weight counts, Ti goes in my pack. And Ti cups do not burn your lips like aluminum cups do.
My entire cookset with an esbit "stove" weighs very little. Sometimes I even take n extra bowl along as an added luxury. Ti is light enough that you can add extra cookware and still stay lighter than stainless.
And when I find some nice, small Ti billy cans, I will be in Ti heavan. :Crazy_071
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/images6/esbitstove1.jpg
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/bpack/nh/tea1.jpg
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/bpack/nh/lunch1.jpg
*everybody* has opinions on this topic....
I feel that the pots you carry ought to be the ones that you *will* use, not the ones you , "well, may be I'll...", so generally a small kettle, a steep sided, deep pot with a good multi purpose lid that can double as fry pan/wok/plate is ample, and a sieve/steamer of some kind that fits inside the pot is awfully handy. Aluminium spreads heat well, but can very quickly get too hot, unless you can find a set with a sandwich base or let them get really manky on the *outside*.
S.steel/cast iron are great to cook with but they are heavy, if you can find thin s.steel pots with a sandwich steel/aluminium/steel or steel/copper/steel bottom you'll have brilliant pots, but not cheap :cry: :?: Titanium? ouch on the pocket, but if light is your main consideration in buying a pot.....
That said we have a set of cast iron fry pan with an old fashioned pour edge and girdle, both with hanging chains, that are very hard to beat over open fires....there's a cauldron (ahem! a stew/ soup pot!) kicking about somewhere too. Great when there's a crowd or a settled camp but a real pain to clean and keep from rusting. Unlike aluminium though the pitting doesn't seem to matter so long as you scour them well before use.
Toddy, who found ransomes yesterday and is going to have them with lunch :-)
arctic hobo
24-02-2005, 16:46
Especially with Trangia's you need to be careful how you store Alu pots. The aluminium can oxidise and you can get pitting that makes a perfect home for bacteria.
That's not quite right. Aluminium is always oxidised - it oxidises as soon as it contacts air. You can see this very faintly if you cut it - it starts very shiny and then quickly goes a little duller. This is the reason it does not corrode, the oxide layer means no more can be affected.
Ti mug, and hard anodised aluminium everything else is probably the best way to go. aluminium conducts heat too well for sanything you'll be putting near your lips. of course you could get an ali mug with a clip on plastic rim that leaks and dribbles your coffee all down your front :roll: :o): if you don't want to spend money on a Ti mug then s/steel mugs are your second choice.
heat distribution is a problem with thin walled anything, especially Ti and s/steel. it's ok if you're making noodles or something with alot of water. but trying to make porridge can be very trying indeed. :nono:
i use a sainsburys hard anodised pie tin for a universal plate/bowl frying pan, a snowpeak Ti mug & bigger pot, and, dare i admit it? a plastic spoon!
cheers, and.
I tend to prefer Stainless, I have other pans, but use stainless more often than not.
If it has a copper or slighlty heavier base the heat distribution tends to be a little more even and I have never managed to melt the bottom out of one yet, I can't say that for aluminium. :-)
ChrisKavanaugh
24-02-2005, 19:08
Cast ironware should NEVER be scoured. You 'season' the iron with a thin application of quality vegetable oil applied to the warmed utensil. Future use requires only vigourous scraping of food residue with a non metal scraper ( carve another wooden utensil) and another light re application of oil. If you worry about any potential rancidity from improper storage ( you can smell it ) a bath of natural cider vinegar periodically keeps things clean. The more use cast iron gets the better the food seems to be vs a new unit. If you are setting up a more permanent basecamp at least one Dutch oven or those round african units should be considered. Ironware can be left to slowly cook ( taking proper fire precautions of course) without the constant attention other methods require. A communal meal and readily available hot water for tea or coffee over a fire creates an incredible community atmosphere, and a welcome asset if somebody staggers in hurt or tired off the trail. Cast iron is also something still produced more or less regionally. Without naming a certain nation, I LIKE my american made oven for stone soup, brit Brown Betty teapot for Earl Grey and french Opinel for the Brie :chill:
On principle I agree with you on the cast iron. However, I refuse to cook in an orange coloured pot...even oiled and really well 'cooked in', unless kept in the warm place, they rust in our climate. It's real bother, probably why we all prefer stainless steel and aluminium :-)
Toddy
I use cast iron all the time! Keep it well oiled, naturally carbon coated, used virtually every day and you will never have a problem with rust ever!
I use cast iron all the time! Keep it well oiled, naturally carbon coated, used virtually every day and you will never have a problem with rust ever!
See I find it too heavy to carry for one or two, and I don't like cooking with it at home but on an open hearth it's brilliant. Thus inevitably the damn stuff rots and I'm not covering it in WD40 so it needs scoured. Horses for courses. :?:
Toddy
NuclearPower
25-02-2005, 15:31
'' really like the trangia duossal pots, it has the best of 2 worlds aluminium on the outside and stainless on the inside and it does not weigh much.''
Japp! It's a very good combination.
Just don't forget that aluminium is noxious in the long run.... :yuck: