View Full Version : calling army rucksack experts (pic heavy)
anyone take a guess what this is???
i brought it off ebay. it said it was swedish but im not so sure as there isn't the usual three crown sign as with other swedish kit:confused: im not worried if its not, i just wanted it because it is a fairly small rucksack but has a frame which iv been after for a while now, and it just looked interesting.
sorry about the pics, it started raining so was a bit hasty and i think i got raindrops on the lense :rolleyes:
its made from a heavy rubberised material and is similar size and shape to the old 58 pattern webbing sack and has a helmet spider on the front which i will probably remove.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/peter556/Image017-1.jpg
it has a thick padded bit on the bottom and the straps are made of a heavy cotton material.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/peter556/Image012-1.jpg
im guessing these clips and straps are for use with a webbing system?
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/peter556/Image014-1.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/peter556/Image020-1.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/peter556/Image027-1.jpg
under the lid it has these great compression straps and a massive draw string to keep the rain out, much to my liking:)
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/peter556/Image028-2.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/peter556/Image023-3.jpg
thanks
pete
drewdunnrespect
21-02-2010, 12:54
do not have a cku in regards your question but it looks nice
What does the stamp say?
Looks French, but I'm no expert - so I'm probably wrong :D
What does the stamp say?
Looks French, but I'm no expert - so I'm probably wrong :D
ah i new there was somethin i forget! haha
i says..
grosse lieferant/jahrzahl
juriens 95
lebrassus
is this french? the o in grosse has two dots on top
pete
The cotton shoulder straps are definitely German (West German) webbing Y straps. They were used from the 1960s until the early 1990s. They are also used as shoulder straps with a basic cotton rucksack.
I haven't seen your rucksack part before though.
Ok, from the stamp, the pack is Swiss and the shoulder straps are German.
ah i new there was somethin i forget! haha
i says..
grosse lieferant/jahrzahl
juriens 95
lebrassus
is this french? the o in grosse has two dots on top
pete
That's german, so it's either from Germany, Austria or Switzerland.
Made by (or better: delivering agent) Juriens in 1995.
Found this: made of heavy canvas instead of rubberised stuff, states it's East-German.
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13651031&postcount=44
The pack was made in Juriens, Switzerland. The shoulder straps were taken from West German Y straps (the ring, one pice of cotton webbing and a clip have been removed).
WOW! that looks great! where did you get it ? and can i ask how much????
It looks like an updated version of 58 webbing large pack (which was anything but).
Post the question and foto on the army rumour service website (arrse) and you'll have the old and bold fighting over themselves to ID it.
atb
Liam
The Cumbrian
21-02-2010, 16:32
Dunno what it is, but it looks like it would make a good canoe day pack.
in true military fashion it dosent look very comfy maybe a bit of a spine bender
as jayuk said the pack in question is swiss with added west german Bw combat suspenders added ,maybe by the surplus shop? in order to sell the pack...i think the complete swiss webbing system is called the M90 combat equipment,and even has rubberized fabric kidney pouches in the set...i haven't posted in a long time ,hows everybody doing ?.... vince g. 11b inf..
RAPPLEBY2000
22-02-2010, 02:00
that's what I was going to say!
It looks ever so much like a 58" pack! it's more than a passing resemblance!
The British Army did run some trials of "Nylon" 58" webbing that never saw general issue I'm wondering if this is the same design.
http://www.forces80.com/images/WEBB-58-LARGE-PACK.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/peter556/Image017-1.jpg
some of the parts look like the GS patrol sack, and some parts look East German! I'm guessing some designer borrowed the best bit's from each!
BTW Spanish fastenings on photo 4! now used on PLCE webbing.
the pad shown on the lower back here would suggest it was designed to fit on a frame, this added to the fact the canvas shoulder straps have been added by the surplus store It's safe to assume this sack is part of a frame rucksack!
The shoulder straps would have probably been removable so the frame could be used as a radio carrier (like the British Army one).
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/peter556/Image012-1.jpg
The padding probably standing proud of the frame to give very basic comfort, The sack probably had a frame and straps similar to this
the GS patrol sack (or SAS/para used the same frame but was a much larger sack).
note the padding behind the frame:https://www.dragonsupplies.co.uk/u_images/1233774585_LG.jpg.
Here is the only photo I've ever come across of the Nylon 58" webbing!
http://www.arrse.co.uk/uploads/forums/72_webbing.jpg
if it was made identically to the cotton version It would have had a Nylon 58" large pack! hm!:rolleyes:
hi RAPPLEBY2000,for sure the swiss webbing has roots in the British P-58 webbing...it also has a little nest on the pack cross straps for the helmet...great to hear from you !:)...i guess the swiss liked the concept of the P-58 and adapted it to suit them,bully!....vince g. 11b inf..
andybysea
22-02-2010, 09:01
It is a interesting pack, its got its own shoulder straps so doesnt need a yoke,and its attachments wouldnt fit a 58 type yoke,(ive got a nylon 58 exact same fitting as the canvas one)its obviously designed to sit high n the back so the wearer must have some sort of kidney pouches, with the quick release clips its probably no older than the 80's but the alu attachments do look like central european type kit, i will have a trawl through some of my books.
looks uncomfortable and rank to me......
Rabbitsmacker
22-02-2010, 09:44
lots of German clips and straps on it, like the older issue stuff and the mountain packs, spanish clips on the pockets are later style german, swiss type. is it really that brown? swiss stuff i thought was olive, as rappleby says copied from us, but in the butyl nylon type stuff. i'd guess at that region but wouldn't put my savings on saying a specific country. looks uncomfortable though i have to say. interesting one though.
RAPPLEBY2000
22-02-2010, 10:22
(ive got a nylon 58 exact same fitting as the canvas one)
could you post a pic for comparison?
The Cumbrian
22-02-2010, 14:25
Is it possible to completely remove the frame?
Cheers, Michael.
RAPPLEBY2000
22-02-2010, 16:32
Is it possible to completely remove the frame?
Cheers, Michael.
do you mean the GS patrol sack shown above? if so yes
it was designed that way, so 1 frame can serve several functions i.e.:
frame plus GS patrol sack
frame plus SAS/Para Bergen
frame plus Radio.
perhaps the frame on it's own to carry munitions, water, medical kit etc etc.
I've also heard them being used as a sort of emergency stretcher (you strap a wounded soldier to it in a seated position, I think you'd end up being a casualty after carrying that though!) Life and death situations only!:eek:
andybysea
22-02-2010, 17:03
For Rappleby2000,
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/an258/piccyoo006.jpg
sorry for a bit of thread hi jack, but i supposed it could be said this eliminates the nylon 58 option.
Radix lecti
22-02-2010, 20:49
Found this
http://cgi.ebay.com/On-Sale--Large-Swiss-Military-Surplus-Rucksack%2FBackpack_W0QQitemZ1 60399219832QQcmdZViewItemQQims xZ20100129?IMSfp=TL10012919200 2r2829
RAPPLEBY2000
07-03-2010, 22:58
Hi just to clarify as shown on the E-bay result:
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Richard/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.pngfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Richard/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png
Swiss military ruck sack/backpack. These are surplus (used), but in excellent condition. They are made to withstand heavy use. Each pack is made of rubberized vinyl with nylon shoulder straps and tie downs.
It has a large buckle-down rain flap and multiple water-resistant interior flaps that protect the contents from rainy weather, an accidental dunk in a river, or a hike in the snow.
The pack has an expandable interior that can go from 20" to 32" in tall, with drawstring closures.
You can take as much or as little gear as you want, adjusting the size to fit.
It has two external side pockets for quick access to smaller items, multiple tie-on points and compression straps, and an overlay of webbing that could easily hold a blanket or sleeping bag on the outside.
You can take as much or as little gear as you want
:lmao:always a good selling point!:lmao:
Les Marshall
10-03-2010, 20:28
As an an ex blanket stacker, if the pack was of german post war army issue, it would have a NATO reference number on a label somewhere on the pack. The number would look something like this:8564-99-9736663 (this is for the british issue milbank bag). I have to agree that it looks something very close to the 58 pattern British webbing pack.if the pack was issued by the Swiss military, it would indeed have the three crown stamped on it, or in blue ink some where on it, there would would also be the Swiss equivelent of the NATO number on it. My gut instinct tells me that it is a reproduction, The mixture of metal and plastic fastenings steers me in that direction, I hope I'm wrong. Still, it looks a good bit of kit.
Radix lecti
10-03-2010, 20:48
Swiss or Swedish ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SWEDISH-ARMY-BACKPACK-RUCKSACK_W0QQitemZ170454741288 QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collecta bles_Militaria_LE?hash=item27a fe4f128
Swiss or Swedish ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SWEDISH-ARMY-BACKPACK-RUCKSACK_W0QQitemZ170454741288 QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collecta bles_Militaria_LE?hash=item27a fe4f128
thats the same guy who i got mine from
pete
aus bushcrafter
26-06-2010, 11:23
ah i new there was something i forget! haha
i says..
grosse lieferant/jahrzahl
juriens 95
lebrassus
is this french? the o in grosse has two dots on top
pete
grosse lieferant/jahrzahl ruffly translates to year supplier number and i presume juriens 95 is the date hop it helps.
Here is the only photo I've ever come across of the Nylon 58" webbing!
http://www.arrse.co.uk/uploads/forums/72_webbing.jpg
RAPPLEBY,
Sorry to hijack the post! Was this your post from ARRSE? That photo's a right chronological jumble- SLR pre 88 for Regulars, Mk1 Kevlar post 85, shirt hairy pre 87/88 and those look like 78 pattern combats! So if it is late in the 80s then 90 pattern PLCE must have been either in development or this was quickly scrapped for 90 PLCE! I recall speaking with some TA Regiment lads in 86 who appeared to be wearing what I now know was PLCE!
The germans were trialling a system similar to this in about 1977 or thereabouts, I remember seeing this type of system then, as we were operating together at the same time on a long 6 week exercise. While all our kit was getting soaked (it rained almost continously) there's were pretty dry, but as for comfort I'm not sure.