View Full Version : Numpty's on the Loch; Campers face £500 fines for breaking Bonnie Banks ban
Hi All
This morning Scotsman's article about upcoming camping ban in some Scottish sites.
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Campers-face-500-fines-for.6053758.jp
cheers
tao
bothyman
09-02-2010, 10:32
Interesting, where are all the People who camp there now going to go ??
They will just move on to somewhere else, and cause the same bother there ??
I think half the problem is these People have no respect for anything or anyone.
Since the Right to Roam Law came out, some People think they have the right to go anywhere without a thought to what they are doing to the landscape.
Why does everyone feel the need to light a fire?? even using dead wood is destroying the creatures that use it as their home ??
I think this sort of ban will soon move to other areas, if People do not start respecting Nature.
MikT
gordonmac
09-02-2010, 10:52
Since the Right to Roam Law came out, some People think they have the right to go anywhere without a thought to what they are doing to the landscape.
MikT
I'm with you on this. As soon as these people do the stupid stuff (littering, lighting fires inappropriately... blah-blah-blah) they've forfeited their right to access.
The proposed bylaw isn't the real issue here; the enforcement and education of existing access laws are the real issues... and lack of this seems to be the ultimate cause of this bylaw intervention by the local authority.
With that number of illegal campsites about, how about regulating them and getting someone in charge to look after them?
Then I guess the appeal of wilderness camping goes. Shame the many spoil it for the few!
I think a large part of the problems at Loch Lomond are simply because it's so near major conurbations.
If this makes them think about their behaviour, it's a start.
Too many people in too small an area. Not everyone trashes it, many help clean it up, but too many just going for a barbie and a bevvie.
No other public venue would even consider having so many people with such very poor and limited infrastructure around. That's what it is really, a huge public park without enough parkies. There is a culture of littering in the UK, it's disgusting and shameful, but it's there. Until that changes, the alternatives are to clear up behind the numpties or make it compulsory in some way.
Be interesting to see how the situation develops.
cheers,
Toddy
timboggle
09-02-2010, 11:01
Interesting, where are all the People who camp there now going to go ??
They will just move on to somewhere else, and cause the same bother there ??
I think half the problem is these People have no respect for anything or anyone.
Since the Right to Roam Law came out, some People think they have the right to go anywhere without a thought to what they are doing to the landscape.
Why does everyone feel the need to light a fire?? even using dead wood is destroying the creatures that use it as their home ??
I think this sort of ban will soon move to other areas, if People do not start respecting Nature.
MikT
Totally agree 100% mate
There will allways be people with the attitude of 'the rules don't apply to me' and go through life trashing everything, as long as they get their own gratification they simply don't care about others or their sorroundings.
Since the introduction of Anti-Social Behaviour Orders, I feel these people are now just seeking out places away from the urban areas to just carry on regardless, they have no affinity with nature or the countryside whatsoever they just see it as somewhere to go and get smashed and caused chaos without the threat of being caught or a further ASBO.
It's not just Loch Lomond, we have this in a lot of areas in the English and Welsh countryside it's like a desease, it's soul destroying.
unsure if this has been posted already but read it in the evening times today & found a link to a similar article in yesterdays times.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article7019428.ece
totally shocking, the scumbags run riot & it's the people who genuinely appreciate the land who will end up losing out in the longrun, sickens me!!
ok rant over....just had to vent my anger somewhere!!
Melonfish
09-02-2010, 14:23
bloody hellfire!
"a blazing barbecue was thrown through the window of a car, setting fire to its interior and destroying the vehicle. "
what the hell is going on up there? damned stupidity of some spoils it for the many. oh how we live that on a daily basis.
Pete
bivibabe
09-02-2010, 14:43
There is a thread on this very subject over on Song of the Paddle clicky here (http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?22654-Loch-Lomond-Wild-Camping-Byelaws-Consulation)
The first post has links to the proposed bye laws that that want to create etc
Mesquite
09-02-2010, 15:00
There's also a thread here (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=640513#post64 0513) on BcUK about it.
Modded, I combined the two threads. atb, Toddy
I can imagine folks getting p***ed off if there's riots and idiots bringing chainsaws to cut trees down for fires.
apologies for the dup thread, to be honest i didnt even check for other threads as i was caught in the moment. please delete if appropriate mods.
I just merged the two, atb, Toddy
I wouldn't go near it with a barge pole in the summer months ... the place is ruined with neds ... it's a shame
The law, if it came into force would probably be applied with desecration. I doubt they would bother a small group of people who are clearly not up to no good. Either way its the way things are these days, blanket punish everyone for the faults of the few.
Bazzworx
09-02-2010, 17:49
I went to SW scotland wild camping last summer as I hadn't been up there since I was 10. Our first camp was in the Glen Fruin Valley. A beautiful place next to the river. When we arrived there was a few large fire scares, a disposible BBQ, Bottles, Cans and also a half burnt maths exersise book (I did look for a name on it). After cleaning up the mess and striking camp I went for a wander down stream only to find many trees wounded and some chopped down and just left. It was deeply upsetting, I have never seen anything like it. The problem is that the people causing the dammage wouldn't take notice of a ban unless the areas were policed 24/7.
Although i dont doubt this happened, i feel they are using this as an excuse to stop the camping on the loch as they have been trying to stop it for the last 3 years by the issue of parking tickets in the lay byes, which i have had a few and got them all stopped as they were illegal..
Whos up for a group buy legal challenge to the national park, we could get a law saying no neds, but full members of BCUK and SOTP are ok to do what we want as we help not hinder the national park....
We could start the arguement with "I HAD A DREAM AND IN THAT DREAM THERE WERE NO NEDS BUT JEDI BUSHCRAFTERS WITH COOL GEAR AND RESPONSIBLE FIRES" what judge could refuse that arguement. If we all chip in 20 pence i reckon we could fight them in the courts for at least half an hour, should be enough time, what do you reckon guys.....
Colin
aw well i'm headin up for a wee day trip wi my son on thursday to play about wi (practice) my hammock set up, shouldnt be many people around then. as you say jakata common sense should prevail with the authorities & we should be allowed to go about our business peacefully.
gaz your too rite about summer, it'll be heavin wi shell suit bobs, defo a no fly zone unfortunately!!
we could get a law saying no neds, but full members of BCUK and SOTP are ok to do what we want as we help not hinder the national park....
Isn't it covered by the current laws - responsible camping?
(Just hope they dont check out the forums and find the "Leave no Trace". Yeah right. (http://bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52806) thread :O)
timboggle
09-02-2010, 18:52
Isn't it covered by the current laws - responsible camping?
(Just hope they dont check out the forums and find the "Leave no Trace". Yeah right. (http://bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52806) thread :O)
Aye, here's hoping they do find the Wild Camping in the UK (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52767) thread though !
:pokenest:
Although i dont doubt this happened, i feel they are using this as an excuse to stop the camping on the loch as they have been trying to stop it for the last 3 years by the issue of parking tickets in the lay byes, which i have had a few and got them all stopped as they were illegal..
Which laybys are we talking about Col ? I often leave my motor overnight at Aldochlay and never thought about getting a ticket.
Grooveski
09-02-2010, 19:13
Aldochlay's fine, that's a parking area.
The road over the other side is a lot narrower. It's got a bunch of laybys, they signed most of them last year but before that it was hazy as to whether they were passing places or laybys.
They've just labeled them all passing places now.
johnnytheboy
09-02-2010, 19:19
This wont stop the problem it will just shift it elsewhere, give the park rangers firearms
Loch Venachar is just as bad, also someone had an axe in their head at Loch Chon
Ive parked in the huge layby just before Millochay bay about a mile past Balmaha and got a couple of tickets, they said i had parked on an uban clearway and that was illegal, i wrote to chief inspector kevin finlater pointing out a layby isnt an urban clearway and the only law covering that is that you cant sell anything in a layby beside an unban clearway.
Shock horror he actually set up a working committee, with both the police and council to look at the problem and they found in my favour, no tickets since. good on him!, plus they posted A4 notices in plastic sleeves on gates and fences to tell people that they would be fined if they parked on that section of road, who can see a rain smudged notice a mile ahead of where they park, well out of order.
But in summer time it is a nightmare up the east side with people parking on the side of a narrow road, locals and emergency services cant get by them properly, but my ticket was in january and february, who they kidding on with that stunt.
But as i say, i think this is a move using this excuse to stop camping from mainly the neds, as they cant stop us in Scotland camping where we choose with our laws of " F R E E D O M".
Colin
As bushcrafters perhaps we have the ability to find more exclusive playgrounds. There's the rest of Scotland to get out and about in. A wee hike of a few miles up a river from any loch results in nothing more threatening to see than blackface sheep.
andybysea
09-02-2010, 20:09
Whilst i agree this problem has to stop,and those caught defacing property,cutting down living tree's,leaving rubbish everwhere,etc
etc should be prosecuted, i do think banning camping a step backward's, its like someone posted, the problem will move elsewhere then that place will get a ban and so on.It could also have the effect of someone just bivi'ing for the night,no fire no damage receiving a 500quid fine for sleeping in the wrong place,hit those that are causing the damage hard and make publicised examples of them as a lesson to others.
The National Park authority's research showed that the problem campers were no more than 29 metres from their vehicle. The proposed exclusion zone only extends to about 500m on each side of the road.
I think the intention of the Land Reform Act was to allow lightweight camping in wild country. I wish these restrictions weren't necessary but the current level of misuse is not sustainable.
Grooveski
09-02-2010, 20:57
urban clearway
Urban clearway, that's the chappie.
Tiny round signs on huge great posts. They sprung up all over the place.
The layby I miss most is the one at the start of the straight after cashel campsite. That was a cracker for winters day canoe trips.
I hate to attempt to inject anything positive but it will make the east shore of loch lomond a nicer place.
I like the place. I've stomped, ridden and paddled around it for half my life.
Places like Sallochy Bay always had a problem, anywhere you put a carpark will have a problem. The next hotspots will be next carparks you come to.