View Full Version : fire drill method
for ages me and my dad have been trying to do the bow drill technique, but we have stuggled to get the right wood. Now spring and summer arn't too far away i want to start thinking about hand drill techniques. What woods to use, different methods, any pictures of them in use would be great. Cheers.
Jack I'm sure there'll be dozens of good links and posts to this query, but, it's a ''kiss" situation and lots of practice.
I worked at the Crannog in Loch Tay for a few seasons and we made fire for *every* tour.....by the end of the first week I was making it reliably nine times a day....and we weren't either hi-tech or terribly bushcrafty. A naturally bent stick is the bow, any kind of rope will work...leather is inclined to stretch a bit though...the hearth wood is best really dry and of a softer timber to the spindle (Heresay!! I can hear the shouts now,.... it works folks!) the spindle and the hearth need to be worked a bit first and something to stop the top of the spindle rubbing away at your hand, you need to press down very firmly. A limpet shell filled with tallow or some other heavy grease over the top of the spindle and cupped in your palm was the historical method. I showed my young sons how using a large hacksaw as the bow and a length of double over twine for the cord. A small trimmed branch of oak was my spindle and a bit of old pine skirting board for the hearth. A piece of leather or the like to build the hot coal on is a good idea too! The little 'volcano' cone (the coal) of hot fibres is just the start though, the tinder you use is crucially important too...and that's where the 'experimental archaeology' comes in :-) Kept my two occupied for days on end...brilliant.
Keep it simple and practice.
Best wishes,
Toddy
what about hand drill methods?
I would advise you start with the bow drill and when you can do that consistently, move onto the harder hand drill.
Jeff Wagner
21-02-2005, 16:28
There is quite a lot of good information available on the internet on the hand drill. A google search will turn up plenty of helpful reading information. Spindles and weedstems having a pith seem to perform very well. A good spindle and hearthboard combination will feel gritty and on a poor combination little resistance will be felt by twisting a the spindle back and forth a few times. If you can make smoke toward the end of the first pass down the shaft this is a sign that you have good set. While I have not matched the 4.5 seconds to coal reported by Alan Halcon, I can usually get a coal in about 15 seconds using a mullein spindle. I think this method is well worth the time spent to learn as it is one of the few ways to go into the wilderness with nothing and still make fire. Even the bow drill requires a cord and well lubricated socket to work reliably - and wild soap and leather thongs have gone the way of wild charcloth are not so abundant in the bush these days... :wink:
http://www.wwmag.net/handrill.htm
Fenlander
21-02-2005, 16:29
I use either Willow, Sycamore, Alder or Poplar for the drill and hearth. I use Oak for the bearing block and green wood for the bow. It is often said that the hearth and drill should come from the same piece of wood, but i have never done this. I also experiment with different combinations....Willow and Poplar and Willow and Alder work well.
While I have not matched the 4.5 seconds to coal reported by Alan Halcon, I can usually get a coal in about 15 seconds using a mullein spindle. I think this method is well worth the time spent to learn as it is one of the few ways to go into the wilderness with nothing and still make fire. Even the bow drill requires a cord and well lubricated socket to work reliably - and wild soap and leather thongs have gone the way of wild charcloth are not so abundant in the bush these days... :wink:
http://www.wwmag.net/handrill.htm
There's a wee problem with this......mullien is rare in most of the uk, virtually non existant in Scotland, it seems .....according to the books.... I've only ever seen it growing as a pathetic specimen in a west coast garden, to prefer the continent & southern climes.
Cord making is the work of a few minutes. If there's need, chop out a piece of thick juicy bark and use that for the the lubrication under a bit of stone or a piece of timber to press down on the spindle.
I'm not trying to belittle the method, just point out that you can only use
what's available, and that Britain is an island with a limited post glacial flora.
Does anyone know of any indigenous pithy stems that are strong enough to work like mullien?
Toddy
i think that there is some cats-tail near me but when using this what should be the hearth board?
Jeff Wagner
21-02-2005, 18:26
Sooner or later it seems everything comes full circle...
Willow is recommended here with cattail.
http://www.bushcraftuk.net/community/archive/index.php/t-1147.html
sorry if i'm repeating things :rolmao:
Jeff Wagner
21-02-2005, 18:35
you can only use what's available, and that Britain is an island with a limited post glacial flora.
Select materials are not always abundant. This is absolutely true on both sides of the pond and precisely the reason why the hand drill socket concept makes so much sense. A small plug of material that works well can be mated with any straight shaft - even the nock end of an arrow.
for ages me and my dad have been trying to do the bow drill technique, but we have stuggled to get the right wood. Now spring and summer arn't too far away i want to start thinking about hand drill techniques. What woods to use, different methods, any pictures of them in use would be great. Cheers.
Speaking as a definite non-expert (I got my first 2 successful coals at the weekend but err, blew them out in the tinder) I would say standing, dead, dry elder is the way to go for both drill and hearth. I used ash for the block but beech, oak or other hard stuff should be fine.
Find a dead trunk/thick branch for the board, and cut it so as to avoid drilling into the soft pith. Elder usually has lots of straightish 20cm sections of branch around 15-20mm thick. They are your drills.
Technique, I wouldn't presume to advise on, but I just did what it said from Ray's book(s)
Good luck, it's a great feeling when it works. Be better when I've got a fire :?:
Jim.
I don't know if there's more than one crannog in Scotland, but if there isn't I visited it and had a go at the fire drill. Failed miserably of course, (but that was some years ago) and then the very nice lady assistant proceeded to show me how it should be done and made an ember in less than a minute. May even have been you Toddy!
For bow drill, I use sycamore for drill and hearth. I had a great bow for practising, it hardly bent and was just the right weight and length for me. Missus ditched it when we moved house thinking it was rubbish. Grrr.
I haven't tried natural fibre for the bow, but I remember having serious blisters on my hands after using paracord on my bow when I was learning the basics.
But the joy when it all came together and I lit my first friction fire was worth the blood sweat and (dare I say it) tears. Oh, and the telling offs by SWMBO because of an unnaturally high use of expletives!!!!
I don't know if there's more than one crannog in Scotland, but if there isn't I visited it and had a go at the fire drill. Failed miserably of course, (but that was some years ago) and then the very nice lady assistant proceeded to show me how it should be done and made an ember in less than a minute. May even have been you Toddy!
There's only one!
Me... late 30's, 5'3", long dark brown hair, green eyes...definitely 'cuddly' :-), Scottish, 1997, 8, 9.....? I've got photos somewhere.....
Toddy
Toddy we were there in 2001. I remember that cos we were visiting Edradrour distillery on 9th September.
The crannog was great though, such a cool place. I wanted to stop overnight in it...I wonder if SWMBO would fancy another trip to it?
:wink:
Not me then, I only go and visit my friends now, occasional days. If you *do* go back up find out when there's an evening event on.....we light the fire, clarsach comes out, so does the storyteller and the food, etc....it's a wonderful building....totally different atmoshpere. Talked me into it now, must phone Barrie and Nick, I know I've got a Pictish outfit somewhere.... :-)
Toddy
Lost_Patrol
21-02-2005, 19:53
Hi Guys - This is my first post so forgive any noobie mistakes.
I've been trying to use the bow drill technique using elder wood for the drill and hearth. I can get a hot smoking coal but can't do anything with it. What kind of tinder works with the coal ?
Well that's got SWMBO convinced even if we have no idea what a clarsach is. I'm off to see if they have mailing list. :wink:
Hi Guys - This is my first post so forgive any noobie mistakes.
I've been trying to use the bow drill technique using elder wood for the drill and hearth. I can get a hot smoking coal but can't do anything with it. What kind of tinder works with the coal ?
Supposedly very dry grass, buffed (rubbed) 'til it's fluffy is good with bowdrill embers. As I said earlier, didn't work for me...
...yet :roll:
I'll stick at it and let you know how I do.
Jim.
You need to build a 'nest' for the hot cone of fibres. Anything dry and easily flammable really, and you have to breathe for the fire. Long, even breaths forcing air into the cone to keep it alive. There are materials that catch quickly and those that sustain a flame, you really need both.
Stuart gave a very clear description of tinder and kindling. Use the Search function and type in Tinder Lists, Celtic Dragon started the thread I'm thinking of, Stuart's reply is on the second page, # 17, but the whole thread is interesting.
Good luck,
Toddy
Jeff Wagner
22-02-2005, 14:10
Hi Guys - This is my first post so forgive any noobie mistakes.
I've been trying to use the bow drill technique using elder wood for the drill and hearth. I can get a hot smoking coal but can't do anything with it. What kind of tinder works with the coal ?
I prefer the shredded inner bark of cedar, poplar, basswood etc but if those cant be had, chunks of punk ( rotten wood ) can be substituted very well. three or four such chunks placed in close contact with one another can be blown into flame same as a fiber nest.
bambodoggy
22-02-2005, 14:27
I remember having serious blisters on my hands after using paracord on my bow when I was learning the basics.
Hey Spamel..... Do you mind if I ask how on earth you got blisters on your hands from bow drilling..... I can see you'd get them from a hand drill but how did you manage it with a bow.....unless I'm doing something very wrong nothing rubs anywhere near my hands!!!! :yikes:
With regards to blisters, I like to maintain the correct tension on my bow drill string by gripping the bow at the end and my thumb over the cordage. Then I can maintain the correct tension on the bow string, but the downside is a lovely blister on the web of my thumb!!
I don't know if this is the correct method, but I find that if I tie the bow string off, it's either too slack, therefore ineffective, or too tight and this is when the string goes twang and the drill turns into a missile!!
Maybe it's just me trying to learn by myself without a teacher and I've got it wrong, but watch the Ray Mears Belarus programme where he teaches the guy to light fire by friction, and he shows him to grip the bow string (although he uses his fingers to grip the bow string).
bambodoggy
22-02-2005, 20:36
I don't know if this is the correct method, but I find that if I tie the bow string off, it's either too slack, therefore ineffective, or too tight and this is when the string goes twang and the drill turns into a missile!!
:rolmao: I lost count of the number of times I did this...... and still do it quite often :oops: I keep trying to blame the bearing block I use as wearing out....but then that's my fault for not changing it too! :roll:
I see what you mean now... I do it the same as Ray using my fingers and haven't got blisters and I couldn't understand how you'd got them....makes sence now. Have you tried it holding the string with your fingers Mate?
It's tops when you do it right though hey....I find I have a sudden attack of the Cheshire Cat grins! :Crazy_071
I really want to get out and have a bash at the moment, it's been too long since I last started a fire by friction. Also, I haven't got out here in Hohne unless you count a week long exercise. The problem is that it is brass monkey time at the moment, and we're still waiting on our baby so I can't go far!!
But the next time I get out, I will try refining my technique. I found it very uncomfortable trying to grip the bow string with my fingers, but I think it would be worth doing it Rays' way!!
This probably won't sound too clear unless you've actually got a bow and a stick in your hands as you read it....but you can tighten the string up not by trying to grip the string and trying to put lots of effort into the bowing, but by looking at the string and pulling the bow *away* from the straight held spindle stick until the string is taut. *Then* bow. The spindle still spins, rubs away the fibres with lots of heat/friction but it's more a getting it all in balance sort of thing than lots of muscles and grips. Probably why the women at the Crannog manage it and the he-men first time volunteers rarely do....after that it's just practice and lots of breath!
No offence intended to the he-men out there, it always looks such a simple thing.....like sawing a staight bit of wood :lol:
Toddy
Do you mean pulling the bow away from the drill so that the bow string starts to vee, instead of being in line?
Uhuh, It's a tension thing, but you have to balance that with the downward pressure on the spindle, and if you pull too far, the spindle won't turn....but when you get it right, you can do it all day without blisters :-) and it doesn't matter *who* tied the bowstring on before you got to it :-)
Toddy
Great tip, I'll try it out next time. Thanks :biggthump
Should have said, it can't be that much of a vee; it grinds to a halt or works like a slipping clutch. :?:
Toddy
Lost_Patrol
23-02-2005, 19:16
Jeff, Toddy and Jim,
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll give them a go.
Jeff Wagner
24-02-2005, 16:37
Good luck. Success with the hand drill is a very rewarding experience. I ran around showing everybody who would watch for a period of several weeks. "Hey...wanna see me make fire by fire rubbing two sticks together..." :lol:
brucemacdonald
26-02-2005, 09:38
Speaking as someone who managed to create a fire from a bow drill for the first time, translating what you read in a book into reality is harder than you may think. I would not have done it were it not for some help from the others at Ashdown.
Lessons learned:
Drill made of hazel; hearth of lime.
Make sure you have a large bundle of dry grass/tinder
Let the coal coalesce - take your time.
Make the bow long - ideal length is from the midpoint on your chest to the end of one arm.
Use a clove-hitch knot at one end to allow adjustments for slack in the cordage.
Best wishes
Bruce
Well done Bruce
I can remember the first time I managed to make fire by friction. It was a great feeling!
How do you fancy coming to Trowbridge in about 3 weeks time to help me with 33 Scouts wishing to learn fire by friction? They are a keen bunch and a real pleasure to teach!
Go on, you know you want too! :wink:
Cheers
Nick
Fallow Way
27-02-2005, 22:36
I`d volunteer to come up and teach fire by friction to the young adveturers. I`m one of those annoying S.O.B`s that made fire from their very first attempt years ago
There's a wee problem with this......mullien is rare in most of the uk, virtually non existant in Scotland, it seems .....according to the books.... I've only ever seen it growing as a pathetic specimen in a west coast garden, to prefer the continent & southern climes.
Does anyone know of any indigenous pithy stems that are strong enough to work like mullien?
Mullein is indeed quite rare in Scotland, but thats not to say it doesn't grow happily here... There are currently stems in two inaccessible places that I'd love to get my hands on - one clump on the way to Dalkeith out of Edinburgh, and another on the coastal road from Musselburgh to North Berwick - and both of these were around 4-5 feet in length, which is difficult to cut and carry home when out for the day on a bicycle, and not near any bus stops... :roll:
Of course, if anyone fancies driving me around Edinburgh and East Lothian in a car, and wants to share a go at hand drilling with mullein... :wink:
As an alternative for a hand drill, elder stems work quite well - the best stems come from elders that have been cut right down to ground level a few years earlier, and have thrown up dead straight stems a few feet in length, that have lost their greenness and flexibility and are starting to harden. I've cut a couple of these recently, and have stripped the bark off one while green, while leaving the other intact, and will have a go soon to see if either makes as good a hand drill as I've read it should.
Now that's interesting....other side of the country from me though. I find elder's good, but only if awful dry and I couldn't get the drill thing to work for me at all when the sap was up. Drier out your side too. Interested to hear how you get on with it.
Toddy