View Full Version : Down v Synthetic Sleeping Bags for Uk use
I can’t make up my mind whether to splash out on a down sleeping bag (a modified PHD Minim 600 with Drishell). I have a very nice synthetic Ajungilak bag which I like on the whole, apart from the pack size and weight.
The Minim would only be used in the UK and I would like your opinion as to whether you think down bags are suitable for general all round use in the UK. It would also be used in conjunction with a Gortex bivi-bag.
Thanks
ranger
bambodoggy
14-02-2005, 13:16
So long as you keep it dry (i.e. inside your gortex bivvi bag) you'll have no problems with using a down bag in the uk at all Mate :wave:
tenbears10
14-02-2005, 13:20
Down all the way, if I could afford it. For that reason it's synthetic at the moment, Ajungilak kompact spring which I really like.
Have you looked at mountain equipment or Rab down bags? PHD are pretty expensive IIRC. Stuart has one I think so he sould be able to say if they are worth it.
You should search bcuk as well there is a lot of info about down v synthetic
Bill
The UK’s weather is predominately known as being wet, whether from precipitation, dew or humidity so I would suggest a synthetic sleeping bag.
Down bags work best in cold/dry environments
Synthetic bags work best in cold/wet environments
bambodoggy
14-02-2005, 13:25
The UK’s weather is predominately known as being wet, whether from precipitation, dew or humidity so I would suggest a synthetic sleeping bag.
Down bags work best in cold/dry environments
Synthetic bags work best in cold/wet environments
Adi, while what you say above is true I have used an old 58 pattern down bag since I was in cubs over 20 years ago and have never had a problem with using it.... ok so you have to keep it dry but that's just good house keeping.
I have now upgraded to the 95 pattern synthetic bag and while it's also a great bag I don't really notice much difference to the old 58 bag.
If used within a gortex bivvi as he is stating I really can't see him having a problem with a down bag....
Just my opinion... :lol:
synthetic - its wet in the UK.
more than that you can clean a synthetic by putting it in the washing machine.
Adi, while what you say above is true I have used an old 58 pattern down bag since I was in cubs over 20 years ago and have never had a problem with using it.... ok so you have to keep it dry but that's just good house keeping.
Yes the 58 was great for its time but there is far better around nowadays.
for the u.k i reccomend a synthetic. Firstly because obviously they still keep some degree of warmth when wet and secondly they are cheaper. Even with a bovy bag you might get condensation. I own a mountain equipment military tds 2 and that fine. It weighs 1.5kg and is good to -5.
Down or synthetic, if I find myself somewhere in Britain in a wet sleeping bag...I'm finding the nearest hotel..!
Doesn't it say in the rules somewhere that bushcraft is about camping comfortably!
Back on subject, however, I've always heard that down are the way to go. Saying that though, aren't they heavier/bulkier? Plus I like the idea of just being able to chuck a synthetic in the washing machine.
no, it's synthetic which is heavier and more bulky, not down! :nana:
no, it's synthetic which is heavier and more bulky, not down! :nana:
Thanks jack29g :biggthump
bambodoggy
14-02-2005, 16:16
Down or synthetic, if I find myself somewhere in Britain in a wet sleeping bag...I'm finding the nearest hotel..!
Doesn't it say in the rules somewhere that bushcraft is about camping comfortably!
As I said lower down, it's just good house keeping....I've slept out in all the weather this fine country of ours has to throw at us and fail to see how/why anyone with an ounce of savvy has ended up wet ?? ?? ?? I can just about see the condensation arguement but I've never had an issue with it and I keep my little head tucked right in like a snail....just like you're not supposed to :o): I include in the above sleeping in puddles as that's where our directing staff ordered us to basha up....I was in a bivvi bag in the puddle and still stayed dry....
How do you get wet? :?: The only way I can see and have done myself is by getting into the darn thing when soaking wet myself from an hour on stag....and that was my own fault for not taking my wet kit off but I was on second to last so knew I'd be up and back in the rain in under an hour or so...
I use an ex-army gortex bivvi bag and kipmat....I don't use a groundsteet under myself....just a basha or two on top. In my bergan ALL my kit is packed into Canoe dry bags and then put into my bergan.....if I trip crossing a stream or fall into a river or lake I know my kit will stay dry....this is just SOP to me whether I'm planning to go near water or not....what do you guys do with your kit to keep it dry or don't you? :shock:
In the coldest weather in winter I use down, in the high summer if it's going to be dry I use down and for the rest of the year I use synthetic.
Like everyone else has said, if you keep down dry you won't have a problem. It's just that sometimes the problem is keeping it dry.
George
arctic hobo
14-02-2005, 18:07
I agree that nine times out of ten you will keep your bag dry, but the trouble with down is that it shifts all over the place and you usually end up with almost none underneath you, which is precisely where you need it. Both my bags are synthetic, and I have used Ajungilak bags and they are very good.
Having the insulation under you has little point; it gets compressed and thus doesnt insulate well. Thats why a mat is important.
arctic hobo
14-02-2005, 19:38
Yer, but the coldest bit is the ground, so the more you're insulated the better. Plus it isn't comfortable
wentworth
14-02-2005, 22:49
Insulation underneath you, either down or synthetic, gets flattenend out by your body. When it can't puff up or loft, it offers basically no insulation. It's most important to have the insulation on top of you, since heat rises, and a mat underneath you.
I use a synthetic quilt that basically drapes over you, with a foot pocket like a sleeping bag.... almost like sleeping under a doona at home!
I'm after a 95 Pattern bag, can anyone point me in the right direction, Ive only come across one place selling them new and would like to compare prices.
Thanks
Justin Time
15-02-2005, 12:14
Steve
You'll see quite a few on eBay.
I use the PHD minim 600 with drishell outer
the best bag I have ever used and I would recommend it whole heartedly for use in the UK and abroad.
when your sleeping bag is wet, wether its a synthetic or a down bag you are going to have a cold and miserable night.......... so don't get it wet!!!!
look after your kit and it will look after you.
down is much much lighter, packs down much much smaller, and will last longer.
greg2935
15-02-2005, 14:23
I'm a little confused now. I always thought the whole point of sectioning a sleeping bag was to stop its contents (in this case down) moving all over the place, is this not the case? Who makes bags where this is a problem? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick (happens all the time to me :icon_redf )?
I agree that if anything is wet, you are going to be cold. Doesn't really matter what material it is. Insulation works because it has low thermal conductivity, loft is important because air is a good insulator, the reason down is warm is because air pockets exist both within the feather (used to be blood vessels when the feather formed) and surrounding the feather. If you compress it, you have less air and therefore less insulation. However, 5cm of compressed feathers would act like 5cm of uncompressed lofted down as the thermal conductivities are almost the same (0.034 W/mK for feathers, 0.025 W/mK for air at sea level, (all measured at 300K), for those who do not know what thermal conductivity is, the lower the number the better the insulator, (i.e. aluminium 237W/mK, copper 401W/mK)). It may interest you to know that pure water is an insulator (0.561W/mK), its the minerals dissolved in it that causes it to conduct.
Greg
bambodoggy
15-02-2005, 14:38
look after your kit and it will look after you.
down is much much lighter, packs down much much smaller, and will last longer.
Bingo....that's what I was trying to say below.... howcome I seem to waffle it when others can say the same in one line! lol :rolmao: I must have far too much time on my hands!!! :wink:
I am a big fan of down bags, always have been always will be, but if there is a chance that it may get wet (a leak on river crossings :rant:) it will probably stay that way afterwards for quite some time as they are harder to dry than synthetics in the field.
I use a down bag for a better part of the year, but when it gets really nasty out there and the potential of it getting wet becomes greater then I switch to a synthetic bag just for the simple reason that it is easier to dry.
Someone mentioned about the segmentation of bags, I have a bag that has no baffles shingles or anything else, it was made by mountain equipment and I bought it years ago, I use it very little, not because it isn't good, but because it is slightly larger than my other bags and to be honest it is considerably warmer than another bag that has the same seasonal rating that I have.
To start of with I was concerned about how robust it would be, but I have had it for about 10 years and it is still in good condition and if out in a tent and space is not a concern then this is a favoured bag for winter. :-)
bushbasher
16-02-2005, 20:52
I have just ordered a PHD Minim 400 in Black Dryshell. I have ordered it as a replacement for a Mountain Equipment Dewline which I used to Death. The Dewline was a bit on the short side (I am 6") so I have ordered the Minim 400 long version. They can do a custom version in olive drab pertex but this will make the bag 30 grammes heavier than the Dryshell version :yikes:
I have always prefered Down over synthetic, simply because it takes up so much less space in my Ruck Sack, meaning I can carry more Food :o): Using a good dry bag such as an Ortlieb inside the Rucksack should keep the Bag dry no matter what mother nature chucks at you, and a Goretex Bivi bag keeps you dry when you are asleep. Therefore I have never encountered any problems with Down. I do have a Buffalo fibre pile Bag which I use when I know I will be sleeping somewhere very very wet and I dont have to carry it on my back. This is normally used for Kayak and Canoe trips.
Yes Down is more expensive but in my opinion it is worth the extra weight. The Minim 400 is rated to -5 C the same as my Dewline. I used the Dewline on several trips well below that temperature, using a Thermarest and wearing Clothing, without any problems.
Down almost every time for me. :chill:
innocent bystander
16-02-2005, 21:13
I once went on a bike rally in a wet place with some hills (wales :lol: ), and after a very long ride from oxford to the beacons via cardiff through downpours and blizzards, set up the tent (saunders spacepacker). went to pub, then crashed out. Woke up in the morning with about an inch of condensation in the tent and the sleeping bag (mountain equipment dragon - the old one) soaked along with everything else. :chill:
Second night, i got round to actually using the old survival aids horizontal zip bivi, and the bag actually dried out overnight along with all the spare clothes, socks etc and i woke up nice and warm.
Moral : down and goretex are great !!!!
ps. this was about 17 years ago, and i have learned the lessons from this experience....
neo_wales2000
23-02-2005, 04:31
I use both, but recently won an old Karrimor backpack from the 80's I guess, which had 'odds and sods' in (so the ebay description went. For my few quid I had an old pack in un-used condition, 2 silva type 3's tent pegs, set of alu nesting billies, plus other bits, and a brand new pattern 58 (Long), brand new, and stamped made by 'The North Face'. Its a great bag, anyone else come across them?