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Any suggestions for the best way to collect pine resin?.
I've been thinking about collecting some for a while now and wondered if anybody could offer some tips, do's / dont's.
check a number of pine trees and you should find some which has oozed out through cuts in the trunk and branches and solidified.. if your looking to collect some in the future you could make small cuts in the trees and give it a few months.
bambodoggy
09-02-2005, 12:52
We have heaps by us!!!
You can tap it by cutting the bark (just a small cut and not all the way round the tree) and leaving it for a day or so and then just breaking off the solidified lumps of it that ooze out and dry white and powery...
Or....better still, find a pine tree (or two or three) that is already damaged from animals, lightning stick, wind damage etc and just break off the lumps from that where it oozes out....
enjoy.... :wave:
Thanks for the advice guys.
Any suggestions on how o process the resin once its been collected. I've read that it needs to be boiled in water and then skimmed off once melted to get rid of any debris. How easy is this to do?
bambodoggy
09-02-2005, 17:40
Depends what you're going to do with it....I've never purified it myself.
If you're going to use it for flame torches then just use it as it is, stick a lump in the top of a split stick and light it.... (careful of those sparks!).
If you're going to make glue out of it then melt it on a rock with the glowing ember end of a log from the fire and mix in a little charcoal from the fire to reduce how brittle it is....then use straight away before it sets....
:wave:
Cheers Bambodoggy... :biggthump
I was hoping to get enough and try and make it into a block so that I had some to put in my posssibles pouch for whenever and whatever I could use it for. Presumably it would have to be stored in something to stop it getting everywhere.
Celtic Dragon
09-02-2005, 18:17
Casting an ingot of pine would be possible, the only problem would be getting out of the mould. You could either refine it and cast it that way into a sacraficial mould, or make a metal (tinfoil) and compress the found lumps of resin into it and melt it over a flame, the njust peel the foil off to leave the ingot.
Good thinking CD. :biggthump Do you think it will stay sticky after that or will it go hard as it is on the tree?:?:
Jeff Wagner
09-02-2005, 18:31
I made a stick of pine pitch / charcoal for field archery repairs by pouring the hot mixture into a rolled paper tube about the diameter of my finger. Simply peel away the paper after its cooled.
Celtic Dragon
09-02-2005, 18:37
Good thinking CD. :biggthump Do you think it will stay sticky after that or will it go hard as it is on the tree?:?:
I would imagine, that it would retain some of the stickyness as it does on the tree, and be fairly hard, but and its a big 1, it would be very brittle in its refined form.
I make sticks of it by rolling a thin twig in the warm resin/charcoal powder mix. if you keep rolling it you can build up layers until you have something about the size of a large olive on the end of a twig. That amount is easily enough to use for lighting a fire or to re-melt if you need glue for something. If you get the charcoal/resin mix right it dries without staying sticky. If its still a bit tacky after a day or so of drying then roll it in white wood ash - that sticks to the outside and takes the "tack" off it.
George
Thanks everyone for the advice
I'm off to find me a pine tree!.............
I made a stick of pine pitch / charcoal for field archery repairs by pouring the hot mixture into a rolled paper tube about the diameter of my finger. Simply peel away the paper after its cooled.
I'm going to have a go at this but I've made some little birch bark paper tubes and I'll pour into that. I was going to use the little tubes for holding ointments, etc.
Toddy
I've never had to damage a tree to get resin, I can normally find one with a few cuts and scrapes..... (or great big missed chainsaw cuts that ooze loads of resin.....) On a forage yesterday I collected a lump the size of a golf ball in about 5 mins.
Has anyone tried using a wax in with their glue mix?
:-)
Ed
Is it only pine that resin can be collected from? ie of pinus with two or more needles from the base bud type thing. :o): Thats one of the ways I check when I make pine needle tea.
Can other trees be used? :?:
Any resin bearing tree ought to do the trick. I've resin got out of leyland cypress before but it doesn't set well. Larch resin is way too liquid aparently - it's bordering on being neat hexane.
I drop my resin onto a lightly oiled plate - you get nice easy to handle drops of the stuff that way.
It makes a really good polish if you mix it in equal proportions with bees wax and turpentine and a decent varnish if you mix it just with the turps.
As for making a glue, boiling the resin with beeswax makes a nice hard setting substance that can be used for hafting things, securing the ends of twine etc etc. Just heat it to smoking point and hold it there for a minute before straining out the junk. Needless to say this could be dangerous, I use a metal can and just drop the lid on if it catches fire.
the stuff sticks to skin extremely well when hot and will take the skin with it when you try to get it off.
Realgar
Celtic Dragon
10-02-2005, 16:18
You lot have got me wanting to try it now, :D wonder where my nearest pines are!!!
I have used the resin from cherry trees plenty of times.
It is more a water soluble glue. I boil the solid resin chunks in water until dissolved and the consistency i want. It makes a great glue for fletching bush arrows and the like.
On tricky projects where pine resin goes off too quick I have used cherry first as a sort of tacking glue. when its all dry and held in place if you want you can add a layer of pine pitch on top to water proof. strong stuff.
I boiled up the bark of cherry for dye and managed to fumigate the kitchen, it gives off cyanide......if you smell bitter almonds :?:
I didn't know about the resin, is it seasonal? I prune my trees quite often and have never noticed any.
Toddy
I find loads of cherry gum on the trees on the way to work - mosty often around lopped branches. I think it's seasonal only in the sense that the sap doesn't rise during the winter so no gum will form but the stuff hands around on the trees for as long as I've cared to keep an eye on it.
Realgar
I have seen cherry leak big stalactites of resin. The last one I collected was the size and shape of a carrot. I don’t see it often though.
The resin dries with a varnish like appearance and looks great on whippings and the like.
Just thought I'd let everyone know how I got on.
Went out on the weekend and collected some resin off some Pines. It took a while collecting it as I was using a few scattered pine trees rather than a coniferous plantation. As I started to get my eye in it was soon easy to find reasonable sized lumps.
The resin I collected had quite a lot of bits of bark etc. in so I thought I'd have a go at getting these out. I used an old trangia pan to boil the water up and a small bag made out of a coarsly woven dishcloth to put the resin in. The bag was then tied and placed in the boiling water. The resin melted in the bag, passed through the holes in the bag and could then be skimmed off the surface of the water.
After this had been done, I moulded a small crucible using tin foil and re-heated the purified resin until had become liquid. I then let it set so that it took on the shape of the crucible.
Here are some tips that I hope may be useful having a go for the first time.
1 - Ask your wife / partner / other half first if you can cut up the dishcloth to make the bag for the resin :nono: :madaxe:
2 - Make sure you way the bag down in the water with something. If you don't it floats on the surface and makes it difficult to collect the resin.
3 - Be paitient. Wait until a reasonable amount of resin has appeared before skimming it off. It makes lif a lot easier.
4 - The resin sets very quickly (about 1-2 seconds) and can be a pain to get off things once it has set.
5- Don't use your best trangia pan, billy can, best cutlery ( :nono: :madaxe: :madaxe: :madaxe: ) See 4 above
Overall it went pretty smoothly and wasn't too difficult and has given me a reasonable / small amount of resin to use in future projects. If nothing else, it makes you appreciate things that need glue a lot more once you have had to go through the process of making the glue yourself.
Celtic Dragon
16-02-2005, 16:59
I too have just had a go at refining resin. I don't think I'll bother again, I'll just pop the raw resin into a crucible and melt into an ingot and worry about the debris when I use it.
Thanks for that Wolfie. I might have a go sometime. :biggthump
jdlenton
16-02-2005, 17:18
Great to know that. I was looking for something to have a go at this weekend
Celtic Dragon
16-02-2005, 19:12
Wolfie, if you don't mind me asking. What did you use to skim off the resin?
Jeff Wagner
16-02-2005, 22:11
I have been frustrated by my past efforts to collect a sufficient quantity with which to experiment with different proportions of charcoal and fat. Found this with a bit of web searching nad have two bottles on the way. Perhaps you boys would also be interested in some of their stealthy tracking slippers... :rolmao:
http://www.allaboutdance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=BH410
The Canadian natives had to acquire large quantities of pitch in order to caulk their canoes. I've tried tapping the trees in Spring like a maple and gotten nothing for my trouble.
Wolfie, if you don't mind me asking. What did you use to skim off the resin?
I found that a plastic tea spoon worked quite well. The resin was a bit eaasier to get off a plastic spoon rather than a metal implement, even if it had set, due to the flexible nature of the plastic.
arctic hobo
17-02-2005, 17:56
Great tutorial Wolfie, best of all using materials we've all got. My understanding is that you must treat resin to change it from treacle like substance into glue that will set. Am I right, and if so, how do you do this?
Great tutorial Wolfie, best of all using materials we've all got. My understanding is that you must treat resin to change it from treacle like substance into glue that will set. Am I right, and if so, how do you do this?
Once the resin has boiled up to seperate it from all the debris etc. it sets hard and looks a bit like Thorntons Toffee ( well mine does anyway). In this state it is not sticky like the fresh resin found on the tree. It can then be reheated to melt it. If it is to be used as a glue I understand that either charcoal or beewax needs to be added to the resin to give the glue a bit of elasticity, otherwise the glue is too brittle.
R-Bowskill
18-02-2005, 20:58
Have any of you made a varnish by crushing the hard resin and disolving it in turps? or even distilling the turps from the resin. That should be a beautiful way to fix the bindings on the fletchings when I make some more arrows. If anyone has done that I'd like to hear as bushcraft 'alchemy' is something I enjoy :roll:
arctic hobo
19-02-2005, 21:54
Once the resin has boiled up to seperate it from all the debris etc. it sets hard and looks a bit like Thorntons Toffee ( well mine does anyway). In this state it is not sticky like the fresh resin found on the tree. It can then be reheated to melt it. If it is to be used as a glue I understand that either charcoal or beewax needs to be added to the resin to give the glue a bit of elasticity, otherwise the glue is too brittle.
Great, thanks.
you may be interested that up the Alps, people used to chew pine resin. As it is a light antibacterial, it was a good mouth wash... and left you with a nice smell in your mouth.
I have tried few times, after few minutes of chewing it becomes like a chewing-gum. But taste pretty bad... and leaves you with sticky fingers.
What other uses there are for it?
Mauro
gurthang
28-04-2005, 12:44
how much charcoal to resin is it best to use when using the resin as glue, or does it not really matter.
I have been frustrated by my past efforts to collect a sufficient quantity with which to experiment with different proportions of charcoal and fat. Found this with a bit of web searching nad have two bottles on the way. Perhaps you boys would also be interested in some of their stealthy tracking slippers... :rolmao:
http://www.allaboutdance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=BH410
The Canadian natives had to acquire large quantities of pitch in order to caulk their canoes. I've tried tapping the trees in Spring like a maple and gotten nothing for my trouble.
Alternatively try:
www.witchcraftshop.co.uk
Hi Guys,
Here in the Souther U.S., we have lots of pines which exude a good bit of resin. I use it for everything from lashing fletches on arrows to making bow strings. It is not necessary to add dust, powdered charcoal etc.. to it. Just use it as is. If I am using it to glue dogbane lashing on an arrow, I just rub the resin over the lashings and then take a hot (no flame) ember and melt it in and rub well. Trust me, it isn't coming loose any time soon. I have friends up in the colder areas of the U.S. who occasionally use charcoal in frigid weather to help keep the resin from cracking but that is about it.
Darryl Patton
defender
01-06-2005, 16:00
In general high temperatures are condusive to good resin flow,but long periods of heavy rainfall are bad.The greater the diameter of tree the greater proportion of live crown, you need the oldest and largest preferably.Trees in Britain won't yeild a great deal compared to some of the more exotic pines(commerically viable)ones.I suggest cutting into the bark,down to the wood itself but not into it,and remove a section about 5cm across left to right and down the trunk about 20cm, attach a means of collection to the bottom of the removed veritcal strip.A sulphuric acid solultion (Ethrel)Tm can be added to keep the flow happening depending on how much you need.Depending on Speices and temperature it is possible to extract 3 Kgs from a tree.
:) once you have collected the resin heat it up until it becomes loose, you can then add some crushed charcoal dip a small stick into the substance collecting a small amount on the end of the stick, place then remove it and immediately place it in cold water this will cool it and solidify it in a very very short period, repeat this process until you have enough on the stick, you can then use a new stick and continue the process it will then be fit for storage.
I melt my resin in a tinfoil crucible, heated with tea-lights. I then add powdered charcoal and a little beeswax to make it more pliable, then I let it cool, peel off the tinfoil, break it up into chunks and store it in small plastic baggies. When I want to use it I can get as little or as much as I want by choosing the right sized lump for the job.
Grooveski
17-08-2005, 21:20
Originally Posted by Toddy
I didn't know about the resin, is it seasonal? I prune my trees quite often and have never noticed any.
Toddy
I was at Chatelherault Country Park last weekend and collected as much cherry resin as I felt like within 100m of the entrance(so ignore that stretch, it'll be cleaned out).
Was really after pine resin but the trees were too well kept. Go round the golf course to the big pine forest and look out for broken off branches. if you're lucky and the branch broke at just the right time of year there will be a black dod of resin, hardened long ago, between 5 and 20mm thick on the broken surface.
It can be collected from the knots a bladetip at a time, but finding big lumps is where it's at. ;)
It's another one of those walk-in-the-woods mental triggers. Now any time I see a pine tree with a broken branch I'll probably glance at the end of it just in case. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Grooveski]I was at Chatelherault Country Park last weekend and collected as much cherry resin as I felt like within 100m of the entrance(so ignore that stretch, it'll be cleaned out).
I find this cherry resin thing frustrating. I've pruned my cherry trees (again!) and stillI have nothing showing. :(
There's a lot of wind damaged pine at Chatelherault if you follow the path to the Duke's memorial monument. Go past Cadzow castle and vere right.
HWMBLT brought me home beautiful white pieces of resin last week from a walk up Ben Ledi. Wonderful scent and no debris attached to it at all. Lovely stuff
Cheers,
Toddy
Grooveski
17-08-2005, 22:24
How well established are yours? There didn't appear to be much coming from any trees less than 6" diameter.
The one's which gave the most were those on the western edge of the clumps, which were catching direct sunlight in the afternoon.
Cheers for the pine pointer. :)
Grooveski
21-08-2005, 15:39
That's a great spot Toddy. Collected a fist sized lump in under an hour. :)
Most came from a pine which had fallen and split along the grain for about six feet. The resin had exuded to fill the gap then hardened and it was just a case of running a knife along behind it and catching the white crumbly resin as it popped out in wee lumps.
Plenty oozing out of knots all over the place as well. The kind that gets everywhere.
Now for the icky bit. On the table in front of me are three different types of resin, a bunch of stainless crucibles, hardwood charcoal, wee baggies full of rabbit and sheep droppings, beeswax, a dod of lard, some sticks to collect it all on, water and a stove.
This is gonna be a very messy experiment, I can just feel it. Guess I best disconnect the smoke detector too. :rolleyes:
That's a great spot Toddy. Collected a fist sized lump in under an hour. :)
Most came from a pine which had fallen and split along the grain for about six feet. The resin had exuded to fill the gap then hardened and it was just a case of running a knife along behind it and catching the white crumbly resin as it popped out in wee lumps.
Plenty oozing out of knots all over the place as well. The kind that gets everywhere.
Now for the icky bit. On the table in front of me are three different types of resin, a bunch of stainless crucibles, hardwood charcoal, wee baggies full of rabbit and sheep droppings, beeswax, a dod of lard, some sticks to collect it all on, water and a stove.
This is gonna be a very messy experiment, I can just feel it. Guess I best disconnect the smoke detector too. :rolleyes:
How did you get on with your experiment Grooveski..?
Not meaning to be pandantic, cherry oozes gum because the tree has a fungal infection, the gum can spread the infection. You should make sure blades/spoons are cleaned in very hot water after use, they will be sticky anyway. Also it is called a gum not a resin because it is water soluble and resin isn't. I make ink sticks with mine, add soot and dry. Then mix with water to make ink. A chewing gum can be made with it as well. Natural clean lumps are beautiful.
I moved away from where I used to collect mine, this thread has reminded me to go and get some more.
I have access to a lot of pine in my local haunt which i like to use for torches. My only tips are..
1 When looking for it dont just dismiss the lumps that look like knots as they are usually just pine resin covered in debris. I find that i very rarely see the pine resin in a clear form it usualy just looks like a knot and a quick poke with a knife will help you tell what it is.
2./ When making torches try to use a split pine stick as it tends to burn better due to the existing pine and also use a stick at least the thickness of your thumb.
2./ When colecting it dont store it in your pocket no matter how cold it is :o
Grooveski
03-01-2008, 14:55
How did you get on with your experiment Grooveski..?
Every bit as messy as expected:rolleyes:.
Made up half a dozen different mixes in small quantities, popped the resulting dods on a bit of wood and jammed a twig in each sticking up.
The pitch only one was brittle and cracked up easily. The one mixed with charcoal seemed much the same which was a surprise. Mixing in lard gave off the most interesting smell(not very nice at all) but was more like what I was after.
I didn't go very far with it all, never tried combinations of additives. To be honest I burnt my hand on a molten dod of it, knocked it on the head for the night and never got back to it again.
The most useful looking basic mix was just resin and droppings, I had to bash the twig off with a rock and the pitch was still well stuck to both surfaces.
Made up a larger batch of that intending to use it between the handle and head of a stone adze - not to hold it in place but more to fill the gaps and stop the head wobbling and loosening off the rawhide wrap that was the main binding. At the same time though a pal was playing with rendering hide glue, he'd ended up with loads of the stuff and when I saw the hardened glue it looked more like the consistancy I'd been after so I used a thick smear of that instead.
When set it looked the part and was able to whop down inch thick hazel shoots in one or two whacks. A couple of days later back at the house I went at a stave of dry ash with it to see if it was the right shape for whittling bows with.
Learned that dry wood is a no-no for knapped tools. Lifted a big flake right off the middle of the cutting edge, totaly trashing the head:(. I guess that's why folk went to the (huge) trouble of pecking and grinding axe heads - just knapping them out and using ones with flake scars means there are strong spots and weak spots whereas a ground head with rounded faces would be less likely to flake. The head was good quality greenstone and would probably have coped fine with what I was trying to do if the wood had been green still.
[QUOTE=xylaria;359934]Not meaning to be pandantic, cherry oozes gum because the tree has a fungal infection, the gum can spread the infection.QUOTE]
Thank you :D and that is presumably why my geans don't leak the gum despite frequent pruning; no infection :D
Gavin has been refining my pine resin, it now looks like the most beautiful amber beads :cool: He covered the crushed pieces that were covered in debris, in real turps (less than £20 for 5 litres, I'll happily split ) and then strained it. The liquid gold stuff was kept in a glass beaker on top of an upturned little lamp and the turps slowly evaporated off, the house smelt glorious:) and then when it was nearly set he rolled it into bools. We've wrapped them in wax paper like sweeties :D
cheers,
Toddy