Glass on my Stove

[welshwhit]

Afternoon everybody,

Sorry if this is wrongly placed, mods please move if necessary.

I have a nice little multifuel burned in my living room, lovely on a cold evening, and I mainly burn logs over a bed of coal/maxibright.

But the glass keeps getting blackened and you can't see the flames!

Am i being a complete numpty or can i do something to prevent this?!

Thanks folks!

Drew

[demographic]

Afternoon everybody,

Sorry if this is wrongly placed, mods please move if necessary.

I have a nice little multifuel burned in my living room, lovely on a cold evening, and I mainly burn logs over a bed of coal/maxibright.

But the glass keeps getting blackened and you can't see the flames!

Am i being a complete numpty or can i do something to prevent this?!

Thanks folks!

Drew

Might be your damping the stove down too much and not letting it burn hot enough to clean the glass off, also some stoves have what they call an airwash which is an inlet (usually in the door or front of the stove) which lets clean air into the stove and keeps the glass clean.

Maybe.

[Eric_Methven]

Well we have a Parkray and the glass gets blackened every day. We have just gotten into the habit of attacking it with a Brillo pad each morning when we clean out the ashes. Don't know if there's a better or proper way but it's what we have been doing for years.

Eric

[British Red]

Do you have top and bottom air inlets in your stove? If so close the bottome air inlets when the wood is well alight and open only the top ones. This drags air in the top over the glass and underneath the grate keeping soot off the glass. If burning coal or smokeless then close the top vents when alight to draw air through the bottom. Cooler air in the bottm prevents you burning the bars out on your grate.

Red

[welshwhit]

Cheers for that folks!

Thanks Red!

I'll try that tonight!

Drew

[welshwhit]

Thanks for the move, I'll get the hang of were to post one day!

Drew

[andybysea]

We have exactly the same problem, got our multi burner fitted on Thursday(did have open fire) we are only burning hard wood and the glass gets well sooted(baked on hard to remove) every night, i dont really mind but it drives the misses mad as she wants to see the flames,have tried the top airwash vent but does'nt help that much if i close the bottom totally because we are only burning wood it tends to suffocate the fire, any other options?????Currently having to clean glass everymorning with hob cleaner,which struggles to remove the bulid up, but we dont want to use abrasive stuff incase it scratches the glass.

[waterman]

I used to have a pioneer 400 multi fuel. I found that the seasoning of the wood was critical.If it was hardwood seasoned for just 1 year then the best burn was full top vent but still give it some lower vent as the airwash was only effective when there was low moisture in the wood. shutting the stove down for overnight burning as previous posts suggested reduces heat and therefore increases sooting. I overcame the issue by burning the greener wood or scrap wood during the evening then putting a decent sized log of well seasoned oak/beech for the night.Failing that avoid brillo, use cream cleaner or washing up liquid on damp paper.All part of the joys of watching dancing flames.

[mr dazzler]

Let me guess you bought some fiirewood from a dealer who swore it was "bone dry mate" Wet wood is #1 cause of blacking.
What type of wood are you burning? Pallet wood produces tarry resins which are black.
Whats the flue like is it clean and clear, do you get a decent draw? It miight need cleaning, they need doing every 6 months. On mine if I want a superhot burn I inlet the air 2/3 from below, 1/3 airwash. I use almost exclusively ash and oak logs, which burn hot and reasonably long. Birch is hot too but short lived.....I light up then let it go full throttle for 10 minutes or so until the stove top is too hot to touch, then damp it down. I did get trouble with tarred glass (and flues) but that was when I bought firewood from dealers. Very few if any supply geninne dry seasoned logs. Once I started doing my own (2 or 3 cords a year) at about 1/12th the price, and had full control over the cutting splitting stacking and drying, that problem has reduced to a negligable amount
Try this tip to clean the glass. Get a damp cloth and dip it in wood ash out the ash pan. Then rub it on the glass. It works a treat, some sort of chemical reaction breaks down the tar very quick and it doesnt scratch the glass.

[scott mcmillan]

sorry mate, have had wood stoves for 10 years plus . have tried all the idears on keeping the glass clean. but to be honest we burn anything we can get are hands on from oak to old doors (no point in wasting wood?) so have ended up just cleaning the glass when it goes black.
at the end of the day just enjoy the fire and laugh at the people who dont even have chimneys in there homes

[mr dazzler]

LOL its not funny really, but almost exactly 2 years ago a neighbours house was burnt to a shell because their flue was tarred up (and leaking) it was on fire and set the thatch alight. They only just finished the rebuild (listed property) in the last few weeks.

[Chopper]

Let me guess you bought some fiirewood from a dealer who swore it was "bone dry mate" Wet wood is #1 cause of blacking.
What type of wood are you burning? Pallet wood produces tarry resins which are black.
Whats the flue like is it clean and clear, do you get a decent draw? It miight need cleaning, they need doing every 6 months. On mine if I want a superhot burn I inlet the air 2/3 from below, 1/3 airwash. I use almost exclusively ash and oak logs, which burn hot and reasonably long. Birch is hot too but short lived.....I light up then let it go full throttle for 10 minutes or so until the stove top is too hot to touch, then damp it down. I did get trouble with tarred glass (and flues) but that was when I bought firewood from dealers. Very few if any supply geninne dry seasoned logs. Once I started doing my own (2 or 3 cords a year) at about 1/12th the price, and had full control over the cutting splitting stacking and drying, that problem has reduced to a negligable amount
Try this tip to clean the glass. Get a damp cloth and dip it in wood ash out the ash pan. Then rub it on the glass. It works a treat, some sort of chemical reaction breaks down the tar very quick and it doesnt scratch the glass.

Mr D is bang on with everything he has said above.

If you can process all of your wood, from collecting to ash you know what you are burning, just remember that the black muck you are getting on your glass is also building up in your chimney! This is generally caused by damp wood or bad air flow.

We have a large glass panel in our stove and it stays clean as long as the airflow is kept right, by this I mean enough to keep a good level of flame (see below) whilst burning, this burns off the gasses that contain the harmful tar that will build up in your stove and chimney.

As for using wood ash to clean the glass, you wont get any better and its free. But, remember, only use pure wood ash, not a mixture of wood and solid fuel ash as this will scratch the glass in next to no time.

Happy burning. :)

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h248/chopper692006/IMG_3576.jpg

[tenderfoot]

seasoned hardwood end of story
you can get magnetic temp gauges to stick on your flue helps fine tune efficient burn

[filcon]

Yellow and orange flames are lower temp thus producing blacker dirtier gases that don,t burn off. Use dry hardwood to kindle and raise the temp.
If you start your fire with coal , you get a dirty low temp fire.If you put the coal into a well lit fire the coal gases burn off. Use the coal at the back below the baffle.
The airflow determines the temp, look at the vents and height of ashgrate.
fil

[CaptainBeaky]

Right interesting, this thread - I've just had fitted a Westfire woodburner, and yup, the glass is getting blackened.
Good tip on using newspaper and woodash - much cheaper than using cleaning compounds :)

Having read this thread yesterday, I tried tinkering with the vent settings - the instruction manual is frankly fairly pants - but it's still sooting up the glass.
The wood is a mix of birch, sycamore, cypress, ash and oak, and the pile I'm working through is all at least 18 months since cut and stacked. It is exposed to the weather, and gets wet when it rains :rolleyes:

[mr dazzler]

Did you get a proper flue made up for your stove? Condensation in a poor quality flue, or a leaking flue also reduces burn efficiency and encourages tar deposit.
Was the wood stacked up so air could flow right through it? If it was just in a loose heap the stuff in the middle is likely to be still damp and mouldy, especially the birch logs. Why not invest in a proper log store. Its amazing how much quicker the logs dry under cover....if you cant build a store at least stack the logs in walls with gaps between and put plywood or tarps over the top. LOL if you want to embarrass a log dealer simply ask what is the moisture content of their logs :bigok: :lmao::lmao::lmao: It should be around 20%.

[Chopper]

Log storeage is very important, not wanting to teach anyone to suck eggs.

I keep two airers like this one, each is approx 7'w x 6'h x 3'd. there are three stacks of logs in each. These were made from large pallets and believe me they are so heavy when empty it takes three people to move them.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h248/chopper692006/IMG_0041.jpg

I also have a keep a free standing stack. although this is uncovered the wood will still season, however the wood will be transferd in to one of the airers for final drying.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h248/chopper692006/IMG_00441.jpg

What you are ideally looking for as a sign of well seasoning is cracking and or the bark seperating from the wood, like this.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h248/chopper692006/IMG_0042.jpg

I do confess to buying a moisture meter from Maplins, this was a great help in the early days of stove ownership, I do make regular checks of our wood piles and at the moment it is averaging about 15% which is ideal. One of these would frighten trhe life out of some log suppliers.

http://maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=220803

[welshwhit]

Crikey!

Well folks the combined knowledge of the forum has again astounded me! Thanks for all the help and I'm glad its not just me!

Think I'm going to have to make me a wood shelter! Might not be as established as yours though chopper!

Thanks again everyone!

Drew

[Chopper]

Think I'm going to have to make me a wood shelter! Might not be as established as yours though chopper!

Spend some time and a little money on screws when making an airer. Remember it will need to allow air to pass through freely and it will take a lot of punishment and be able to take a lot of weight. I will take a couple of pics of the back and sides to give you some ideas.

If you dont have the time to make one you can buy them in flat pack form from here: http://www.euroheat.co.uk/Ac/Log%20Stores/Accessories.html

[welshwhit]

I'd appreciate that!

Thanks Chopper

[mr dazzler]

One of these would frighten the life out of some log suppliers.http://maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=220803

LOL too true mate, too true:) I've asked plenty and all but one evaded the question, and they said well its stored in a barn so it will probably be dry enough......I think there should be minimum quality standards on fire wood. And a standard form of pricing/volume. Whatever happened to the traditional imperial cord? A ton of steel will still be that in 10 years time but a ton of beech will be half that in a year or so of being seasoned. Wood was always sold by volume (not by weight as is the trend now).

I made my log store from recycled 4x4 fence posts, 6x2 joists, and old decking boards, all framed up and joined with oak pegged mortice and tennons. I used recycled poycarbonate roofing off an old conservatory. The footings are single concrete breeze blocks (one for each of the 6 supports) set on their sides on packed fine rubble. Its almost neat enough to live in :lmao: I tried the holzhausen german method of wood stacking but it turned out less than ideal for my purposes.

[mr dazzler]

Heres a few pics of my various log storage methods
Before I built a proper log store. Simple tarped over stack with air spaces in between.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/beaudolls_2006/chairs/logs3.jpg
The little shed thing only held about a months supply.....:lmao:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/beaudolls_2006/chairs/logs5.jpg
This is the new store (built last February) It is about 10 foot wide, 8 foot tall, 5 foot deep? The club stuck in the top right has a nail in one end. I use it to safely hold small logs for splitting to kinderling
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/beaudolls_2006/chairs/logstore.jpg
A detail of the "pad stone" supports. I left a nice clear air flow underneath. I reckon a lot of moisture strikes up and slows log drying if they rest direct on the ground
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/beaudolls_2006/chairs/sales421.jpg

[andybysea]

Blinkin heck you guys must have access to plenty of wood, would cost me a fortune to buy that amount! gonna have to make some sort of storage though as its stacked at the back of the house now and getting rather wet as i write this.

[Chopper]

Blinkin heck you guys must have access to plenty of wood, would cost me a fortune to buy that amount! gonna have to make some sort of storage though as its stacked at the back of the house now and getting rather wet as i write this.

Cost a fortune! :eek: Never, never pay for fire wood.

Speak with your local tree surgeons and ask what they do with their waste wood, some have to pay to tip it.

I have been burning wood for the past thirteen years and never paid for wood or kindleing. Several tree surgeons drop wood off to me on their way home from jobs, only to happy to get rid of it for free, my kindling comes from the local timber yards offcut bin, they to have to pay for waste removal so more than happy for me to turn up and fill the back of my landy, it saves them money. Everyones happy if its done right.

Free heat for all!!!!! :)

[welshwhit]

And Drew gets out phone book and turns to Tree surgeon. . . . .


Drew

[Chopper]

Pics as promised, you will see that it is open all the way around, the base is the same as the back and sides. As Mr D has said a good air flow underneath is very important as is really good footings, remember your airer is going to hold a lot of weight, you wont want it sinking. I used concrete blocks at about 90p each from B&Q, these also keep the structure off the wet ground prolonging its life.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h248/chopper692006/IMG_3710.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h248/chopper692006/IMG_3708.jpg

The back. I have just noticed my son did not finnish painting it properly, he now has a job waiting for him.:rolleyes:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h248/chopper692006/IMG_3709.jpg

[mr dazzler]

Nice sturdy design chopper. the end rails still alow plenty of air in. I was going to put clapboard ends on mine but seeing as I allowed a 12 inch overhang all round on ther rooof I dispensed with the clapboard. Theres just 2 cross rails either end. Next year I am going to add a few vertical studs at the back, just to minimise bulging as the stack settles.
I know what you mean about getting free wood. But what I do is go to a nature reserve locally where they thin out and coppice certain areas each year. I get a proper (very generous 5 foot) cord of straight ash oak and birch for about £40. 2 of those is more than enough for a season, the task is done in a day or so rather than dribs and drabs; plus the money supports the work of the local trust on the Fen. But any stuff I see that I can have legally, I partake of that too.....goodjob:)
How do you process your logs? I use a small petrol chainsaw to crosscut, then split with an axe or wedge and maul for especially fat or awkward bits.

[Chopper]

[QUOTE=mr dazzler;612518]
How do you process your logs?QUOTE]

I have a couple of Husquvana Petrol chainsaw's for cross cutting generally use a maul for splitting or if I have a big load to get through I do confess to having one of these http://www.internetgardener.co.uk/ProductDetail/2520/Handy-Electric-Log-Splitter.aspx :o Much quicker than an axe and offers great accuracy.

[mr dazzler]

you havent built one of these then?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bVAAx3mMKY

[demographic]

you havent built one of these then?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bVAAx3mMKY

Hows about THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1HZztie5ac&feature=related) one for elf and safety;)

For drying and so you know how much there is what about two four foot square pallets lying on the ground (to keep the wood away from the ground), two sticking up at the ends and another two sticking up at the back.

You can put steel roadpins into the ground to hold them in position and lengths of 3x2, then cover it with a tarp over the top and maybe on the end that gets the prevailing wind.
When that's stacked full its a cord of wood. 8'x4'x4' and will allow the timber to air dry.

[mr dazzler]

Oh lord i hope no one slips over and spears themself on that thing. Looks like something out of a 21st century ben hur epic......:crutch:

I like the idea of improvising pallets to make a log platform. I wouldnt use road pins though, I dont think they would take the weight. I'd nail some 4x2 acros the top to prevent splay:)

[demographic]

Oh lord i hope no one slips over and spears themself on that thing. Looks like something out of a 21st century ben hur epic......:crutch:

I like the idea of improvising pallets to make a log platform. I wouldnt use road pins though, I dont think they would take the weight. I'd nail some 4x2 acros the top to prevent splay:)


The road pins just keep the bottoms in place but mean you can lift the pallets off if needed.
If you're stacking them then there shouldn't be too much weight on them anyway.
The 3x2 I mentioned stops the top splaying. What ever is handy.

[Chopper]

For drying and so you know how much there is what about two four foot square pallets lying on the ground (to keep the wood away from the ground), two sticking up at the ends and another two sticking up at the back.

That is effectivly how I built mine. They are made from five 7' x 3' pallets with several pallets broken up to give the 3" x 2" lengths for filling the gaps. The whole thing is screwed together with 5" screws (better than nails) and an 8' x 4' shuttering ply roof.