View Full Version : Kerosene
Waterworx
10-12-2009, 21:42
Anyone know of a cooker/cooking system that will burn kerosene (28 sec)?
It that the same as Paraffin ?
NS
Waterworx
10-12-2009, 21:52
Click me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene)
Boiler fuel, I can get free fuel from work, only small amounts but more than enough for cooking etc.
Kerosene is the same as paraffin. There are hundreds of cookers that use it, many from the likes of Optimus and Primus and others.
Martyn is 100% right heaps of stove and lanterns etc all run on Kerosene...
Generally the stove or lantern needs to be preheated before the Kerosene will turn into a vapour and burn.. Normally methalayted spirits ( meths) is used as a priming fuel to get the stove or lantern up to temp.
Kerosene Burns hot and cleanly for the most part.
Waterworx
10-12-2009, 22:51
Thanks guys, anyone used and can recommend a particular one?
There are so many, that's a bit like asking if anyone can recommend a car? What are your requirements? Single burner or double burner?
Most paraffin stoves are heavy, but there are some lighter versions. If you want ultralight multifuel, then there are options there too.
Here is an old Primus No 5...
http://www.alexholden.net/misc/primus_no_5_stove_small.jpg
An Optimus Nova...
http://media.rei.com/media/a/1122792.jpg
Here's my most recent, a Radius double burner...
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i273/Martyn_s30v/radius/radius001.jpg
An Optimus 111...
http://www.radiv.com/images/111c.JPG
A Primus Omnifuel...
http://www.moontrail.com/details/primus/omni-fuel/omnifuel-ti-inhand.jpg
All run on Kerosene/Paraffin, all excellent, all very different.
Waterworx
11-12-2009, 01:17
Many thanks Martyn.
I wasn't sure if Optimus or Primus would burn kero, it would be a single burner and light weight. Something else to go on the christmas list now :lmao:
Chinkapin
11-12-2009, 05:18
There is a lot to be said for Kerosene. For one it is almost universally available, May lamps and stoves to choose from, cost is probably cheaper than most fuels, and it contains a lot of calories of heat per mass.
Biggest downside in my opinion is it may (read probably) requires a preheater of some sort, and something to consider is if you have a spill in you backpack, you have a major, stinking mess. Whereas alcohol (meths) doesn't smell badly and will rapidly evaporate leaving everything dry and useable, kerosene will leave everything wet, oily, and stinking until you get to the nearest launderette. I had this happen once. A small kerosene tent light leaked in my backpack and everything in it was ruined until I was able to run it through a washing machine. I still like and use kerosene fired equipment but not carried in backpacks.
There is a lot to be said for Kerosene. For one it is almost universally available, May lamps and stoves to choose from, cost is probably cheaper than most fuels, and it contains a lot of calories of heat per mass.
Biggest downside in my opinion is it may (read probably) requires a preheater of some sort, and something to consider is if you have a spill in you backpack, you have a major, stinking mess. Whereas alcohol (meths) doesn't smell badly and will rapidly evaporate leaving everything dry and useable, kerosene will leave everything wet, oily, and stinking until you get to the nearest launderette. I had this happen once. A small kerosene tent light leaked in my backpack and everything in it was ruined until I was able to run it through a washing machine. I still like and use kerosene fired equipment but not carried in backpacks.
Not that cheap anymore here in the UK and not always easy to find these days. I collect stoves and have many kerosene ones and I stock up on fuel when I can, try and keep about 100 litres to hand. Some UK BBQ fluid is in fact paraffin, Wilkinson own brand and the BM stocked Flamefeast brand for instance.
Coleman fuel stoves are getting more popular now in the UK, the fuel is crazy expensive but you can get fuel like Panel Wipe or Aspen 4T which is affordable.
Martyn mentioned the Primus Omnifuel, a very good stove and will use standard Lindal threaded gas as well as kerosene and 'Coleman' fuel (Naptha), that said I have a soft spot for my Nova's.
As a starter stove look on eBay for stoves like the Optimus or Primus models OO or 210, they fold up and won't break the bank to buy, plus they are very easy to maintain with spares still readily available from http://www.base-camp.co.uk/stove_in.htm
Pressure kerosene lanterns provide a lot of light, again look on eBay for Vapalux or Bialaddin lanterns.
Other help available on a very friendly site, www.spiritburner.com
I tend to run my Kero stuff on J1 which is aviation turbine fuel or Kerosene...I'd second any of the Primus Omnifuel / Multifuel stoves they run well on Kero.. As does the MSR XGK...
Omnifuel for carrying or 111T for the car trips.
Beware if you buy old style you will become addicted to them
Waterworx
11-12-2009, 13:13
I work with Kero evryday so used to the smell, tbh I don't smell it anymore, mind you I still wouldn't want it on my kit hence it would be stored in a dry bag in the side pocket, to be safe. Just got to check out some reviews on the optimus and primus now, then search for good prices.
Doing my best to stay away from the older/vintage gear, I know what I'm like, I'll end up collecting it :lmao: SWMBO wouldn't be happy.
Thanks folks.
There is a lot to be said for Kerosene. For one it is almost universally available, May lamps and stoves to choose from, cost is probably cheaper than most fuels, and it contains a lot of calories of heat per mass.
Biggest downside in my opinion is it may (read probably) requires a preheater of some sort, and something to consider is if you have a spill in you backpack, you have a major, stinking mess. Whereas alcohol (meths) doesn't smell badly and will rapidly evaporate leaving everything dry and useable, kerosene will leave everything wet, oily, and stinking until you get to the nearest launderette. I had this happen once. A small kerosene tent light leaked in my backpack and everything in it was ruined until I was able to run it through a washing machine. I still like and use kerosene fired equipment but not carried in backpacks.
There are quite a few different grades of kerosene, some are dirtier and smellier than others. I remember 20 years ago in the UK our stuff used to be pretty foul, but it's much cleaner these days. Kerosene, J1, Jet A, Paraffin oil, 28 second oil - it's all the same basic stuff, but some variants are cleaner than others.
I'd say original Optimus 111. The original burned paraffin/kerosene only. Needed a prime with meths. Never bettered. They crop up all the time
The 111s the one on the left, next to a 111C - which is multifuel but not as good IMHO
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z53/rw20330/111and111Ccomp.jpg
NS
I agree about the 111, I've left one outdoors for about three years now, in all weather and it still lights first time for a 'garden brew'
The 111C was short lived, the Cobra burner had quality problems, it was the weak link in the 111 range IMHO.
As a quick fuel guide go here: - http://cascadedesigns.com/MSR/FAQ/Stoves
go to the second "FAQ" and click on the country and it'll tell you what the fuel is called there.
Cheers
GB.
Chinkapin
12-12-2009, 04:35
RiK UK3: My post about the cost of kerosene may have implied that it was cheap. I said it was probably cheaper than most fuels. I did not mean to imply it was vastly cheaper, but my post sort of reads that way.
Not many years ago it could be bought here for about 7 or 8 dollars for 5 gallons. Now it is higher than gasoline. And it is also getting to be hard to find here. The best bet that I have come up with is to go to farm co-ops. I don't know if you have anything like this or not in the U.K. They buy and store farmers crops, such as grains, and sell seed, fertilizer, tools, etc. and various fuels. (Here is where the kerosene comes in). They are usually vastly cheaper than anywhere else. Not to say it is cheap. Just cheaper.
RiK UK3: My post about the cost of kerosene may have implied that it was cheap. I said it was probably cheaper than most fuels. I did not mean to imply it was vastly cheaper, but my post sort of reads that way.
Not many years ago it could be bought here for about 7 or 8 dollars for 5 gallons. Now it is higher than gasoline. And it is also getting to be hard to find here. The best bet that I have come up with is to go to farm co-ops. I don't know if you have anything like this or not in the U.K. They buy and store farmers crops, such as grains, and sell seed, fertilizer, tools, etc. and various fuels. (Here is where the kerosene comes in). They are usually vastly cheaper than anywhere else. Not to say it is cheap. Just cheaper.
I know what you mean mate, I talk to a lot of American stove collectors and they are all moaning about the price of fuel, Coleman has gone up, 'white gas' from a pump is harder to fine and de-natured alcohol has gone up too, its a global issue I guess. A couple of the lads live near Amish communities and fuel near them is still cheap.
If you are looking for kerosene you could always ask the lads at your local airport for some Jet A1 (Avtur) if they supply it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel
No harm in trying.
Happy trails...torc.
I have an Optimus Hunter that runs on petrol, it has been a great little burner but let me down recently.
When I went to use it last I could not turn it on, so after playing around with it and lighting it it flared up on me from the turn screw, so it looks like I need to get a service pack for it.
As for kerosene I was a tanker driver for 30 years delivering the stuff to houses all over Sussex. When I started the price was 7 pence a litre, probably 42 now.
I have an Optimus Hunter that runs on petrol, it has been a great little burner but let me down recently.
When I went to use it last I could not turn it on, so after playing around with it and lighting it it flared up on me from the turn screw, so it looks like I need to get a service pack for it.
As for kerosene I was a tanker driver for 30 years delivering the stuff to houses all over Sussex. When I started the price was 7 pence a litre, probably 42 now.
Graphite packing from www.base-camp.co.uk should fix the problem. Your internal wick may have become charred over time, so if your going to strip the stove anyway, replace the wick. PM me your address and I'll send you one.
Graphite packing from www.base-camp.co.uk should fix the problem. Your internal wick may have become charred over time, so if your going to strip the stove anyway, replace the wick. PM me your address and I'll send you one.
Thanks for the link Rik, they are not far from me in Littlehampton.
I thank you for the offer of a wick, If I need one I'll ask later if I may.
Many thanks.
Go-gas also do a kero burner but I'd stick to the Primus, Optimus and MSR range. However some of the multifuel burners choose not to list Kerosene (aviation fuel) as a suitable fuel at least for some in their range. Look at the MSR site for their multi fuel burners. I do know ppl who use MSR and rate them highly. I like Primus gas stoves so reckon they must also make good mulit-fuel stoves.
The original poster had a free source of Kero. I am like that but haven't taken advantage as these burners are heavier than gas or meths burners you can get and only become weight efficient on long (over a month) trips backpacking. Of course in altitude or very cold conditions for melting snow then I think these multifuels have to be used as they are best suited in these conditions. My source of kero is from work where they use it to fire their furnaces. The stuff leaks more than the older diesel too hence the free stuff :D I could always siphon off larger quantities as noone really cares about security and you can get away with a lot. ;)
Paul_B wrote (snipped)
"I am like that but haven't taken advantage as these burners are heavier than gas or meths burners you can get and only become weight efficient on long (over a month) trips backpacking."
Really? A Nova or Omnifuel with half a litre of fuel don't weigh that much and thats enough fuel for a weekend trip easy. I've a Nova packed into an ETA pot, good combo.
Paul_B wrote (snipped)
"I am like that but haven't taken advantage as these burners are heavier than gas or meths burners you can get and only become weight efficient on long (over a month) trips backpacking."
Really? A Nova or Omnifuel with half a litre of fuel don't weigh that much and thats enough fuel for a weekend trip easy. I've a Nova packed into an ETA pot, good combo.
This got me wondering.
An Optimus Crux Lite puts out 10,000 BTU's for 120 minutes on 440g of propane/butane mix at sea level.
The crux weighs: 72 g
The 500 size cylinder weighs: 598 g
Total 670g for 120mins at 10,000 BTU's.
The optimus nova+ puts out about the same at just under 10,000 BTU's, and can burn for 120minutes on 400mls of fuel.
The nova weighs: 425g
The fuel weighs: 400g
The bottle (0.4l) & pump weigh: Approx 200g
Total 1025g for 120mins at 10,000 BTU's.
Just the empty bottle (no fuel), the pump and the stove weigh the same as the crux/gas combo.
If you include 400mls of fuel at 400g for the nova, then for the same weight penalty you can also carry a primus micron lantern and a 220g cannister to fuel it, which will put out 70 watts of light (and 240 BTU's of heat) for 12 hours continuously on full power.
I have to agree, gas is definitely more weight and bulk efficient at low altitude for short trips.
Or to put it another way, for the same weight penalty of carrying a nova, plus half a litre of fuel, which will give you 2 hours of cooking, you can have a gas stove, a gas lantern and 3x 220 cannisters, which will give you 3 hours of cooking or 36 hours of light/heat or 2 hours of cooking and 12 hours of light/heat or any other combination.
There are other factors too. The weight of meths for priming if you want to burn paraffin, or the hazards of petrol if you dont want the weight of a priming fluid. Also, gas costs more, but that isn't a big deal IMO.
Martyn - So right there. I'm more from the backpacking side of things so to me a stove must be less than 100g and a pot that is over 150g is too heavy. I use a pot cosy system where I bring water to the boil with dehydrated food in then stuff it in an insulating cosy with no further use of the fuel to cook. It takes a bit longer (say 20 minutes instead of 10 mins) but you can do other stuff while waiting and you get food that is ready to eat without having to wait while it gets to a temp that is comfortable to eat.
I have a stove that is 6g, windshield made from a foil baking tray (a few grammes at most), a lightweight fuel bottle for the meths (maybe 20g at most), a 100g pot with a 50g cosy (a heavy cosy that will be replaced with something lighter one day) and a measuring cup. By measuring out your meths carefully it makes for a more efficient cooking system for a weekend. Certainly makes the nova system look positively heavy.
I know what you're thinking, I don't really fit in here. :)
Or to put it another way, for the same weight penalty of carrying a nova, plus half a litre of fuel, which will give you 2 hours of cooking, you can have a gas stove, a gas lantern and 3x 220 cannisters, which will give you 3 hours of cooking or 36 hours of light/heat or 2 hours of cooking and 12 hours of light/heat or any other combination.
There are other factors too. The weight of meths for priming if you want to burn paraffin, or the hazards of petrol if you dont want the weight of a priming fluid. Also, gas costs more, but that isn't a big deal IMO.
Two hours burn? what flat out all the time? I tend to bring to the boil and simmer food, the half litre fuel bottle will last me for at least a weekend of cooking good food and not just boiling dried food like the UL hikers.. In the Nova I can use panel wipe, no need for meths, the ETA pot is super efficient too.
It depends on what you want out of camp cooking, for me weight does not count as I only car camp and with far to many stoves to pick from I can afford to indulge in whatever cooking system takes my fancy, be it gas, naptha, paraffin, methanol etc. Quality food is far more important to me these days than counting grammes of fuel and looking upon food only as a means of keeping you going.
Use whatever system works for you, I'm getting a Caldera cone, doubt I'll ever take it camping but I fancy playing with one, I've got (or had might have given it away) a Vargo Triad, I think its crap but others love them. I like the joy of using different stoves on different camps, they are all different and I still get a buzz from them.
So if a cooking system floats your boat then go for it.
I hate to admit it, but I am putting my beloved Bulldog billy cans into semi retirement after 40+ years of sterling service and switching over to things like the ETA, Tatonka and big stainless steel pots (a couple of bloody great catering pans):eek:
Two hours burn? what flat out all the time? I tend to bring to the boil and simmer food, the half litre fuel bottle will last me for at least a weekend of cooking good food and not just boiling dried food like the UL hikers.. In the Nova I can use panel wipe, no need for meths, the ETA pot is super efficient too. Yeah, flat out burn, it was the only data I could find for comparison. Absolutely it should last longer by turning it down, but in fairness you can do the same with a gas stove too. However you stack it up, gas stoves are lighter.
It depends on what you want out of camp cooking, for me weight does not count as I only car camp and with far to many stoves to pick from I can afford to indulge in whatever cooking system takes my fancy, be it gas, naptha, paraffin, methanol etc. Quality food is far more important to me these days than counting grammes of fuel and looking upon food only as a means of keeping you going.
Use whatever system works for you, I'm getting a Caldera cone, doubt I'll ever take it camping but I fancy playing with one, I've got (or had might have given it away) a Vargo Triad, I think its crap but others love them. I like the joy of using different stoves on different camps, they are all different and I still get a buzz from them.
So if a cooking system floats your boat then go for it.
I hate to admit it, but I am putting my beloved Bulldog billy cans into semi retirement after 40+ years of sterling service and switching over to things like the ETA, Tatonka and big stainless steel pots (a couple of bloody great catering pans):eek:
Yeah, I hear you. There is more to this than just kilogrammes in your rucksack. But I find myself considering that more important these days. Most of my camping is done close to my landy, so I can take whatever I want pretty much and to that end, I do like paraffin powered kit very much. If you have a car for transport, then it is a superb fuel and most of the kit is very robust which I like too. But for carrying on my back, to be honest, these days I just want as little weight as possible and for short stuff, I think liquid fuel stoves are just too heavy.
I tend to use a Jet Boil for short solo trips eating Dehydrated food or warming up retort pouches and brews a really good stove that gets bagged because it is so good at what it does IMHO...
Optimus Crux for short solo trip eating proper food but the short pot supports make for interesting cooking.
Optimus Explorer for multi day trips or group trips as it has good flame control and is nice and quiet when running...
MSR XGK for mountaineering trips above the snowline as it melts snow like nothing else and the fixed fuel line is a boon in a snow cave.
I think for low level multi day trips a highly efficient gas stove would be a good choice and there seem to be lots of new ones around like the JB Helios and the Primus Eta Power...
Gas has it's place but so does liquid fuel...
I tend to use a Jet Boil for short solo trips eating Dehydrated food or warming up retort pouches and brews a really good stove that gets bagged because it is so good at what it does IMHO...
Optimus Crux for short solo trip eating proper food but the short pot supports make for interesting cooking.
Optimus Explorer for multi day trips or group trips as it has good flame control and is nice and quiet when running...
MSR XGK for mountaineering trips above the snowline as it melts snow like nothing else and the fixed fuel line is a boon in a snow cave.
I think for low level multi day trips a highly efficient gas stove would be a good choice and there seem to be lots of new ones around like the JB Helios and the Primus Eta Power...
Gas has it's place but so does liquid fuel...
I'm looking out for an XGK myself, don't really need one but I'd like to play with one.
Martyn, don't forget running costs, gas is a lot more expensive to use than paraffin. Did you ever get one of these
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Camping-Stove-Gasoline-Gas-Multi-Stove-S-9-x1set_W0QQitemZ120462339948QQc mdZViewItemQQptZUK_SportingGoo ds_Camping_CookingSupplies_ET? hash=item1c0c1d6f6c He is or was taking offers of £25. Not a bad deal and if using gas you can invert the can in cold weather to boost performance.
I never did Rich. It says "oil/gas" does that mean it'll run on paraffin or is it a petrol & gas stove?
Not a bad stove, I've used paraffin in mine no problem.
A mate posted this vid on youtube, he's not a 'bushcrafter' although he's a good friend of Mors Kochanski.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9GbW2MOyIc perhaps my overall favourite stove.