how many of us are first aid trained?

[Andy]

Just a quick poll

no official training
expired training
current training

Talk about specialist bits or things which you really good at are very welcome

[arctic hobo]

Don't see the poll Andy :?: I've got extended marine first aid, which is three week long courses, and exhaustive. Runs out next year though :11doh:

[RobertsonPau]

Currently got a basic level 4day ticket that is outdoor orientated, but I've done more indepth courses in the past but they've expired now. I used to work with a paramedic who is also an Outdoor Pursuits Instructor and learnt some useful stuff from him.

I've dealt with facial and hand injuries while hanging from a cliff face, and lugged victims off mountains on improvised stretchers. Fortunately I've never had to deal with major breaks in remote places, but did the training just in case.

Paul

[Andy]

Odd, the poll looks fine for me

I had an advanced certificate from St Johns. I also used to train the younger cadets in basic first aid. I didn't get round to the moving and handling course through St Johns but my dad tought me so I fairly confident with it. (he's qualified to train moving and handling as well as ressusitation for the hospital he works in).

I'm one of four people to have the Nikon award from the st johns group. Thats from 30years of it being around. It was in a major RTA involving a women who had two very large cuts to the head from broken glass that was march 1998 so I was 11 at the time.
On duty we've had one fatality from a cyclist who came off and one guy who died later in hospital along with a few other major stuff over the 6 years

[OrionN49]

I'm trained with a current certificate and also CPR.
I work as a contractor in the oilpatch in Alberta and most oil companies require employees and contractors to have at least the St. John Ambulance basic first aid course as a condition of employment.

[hootchi]

I've got a standard St John Lifesaver certificate which I need for my walking leader qualification.

It only takes one day so is not comprehensive by any means.

[TheViking]

Nope not trained, but I can put a plaster on. :nana:

[Doc]

I've no first aid qualifications.

Have got degrees in medicine and surgery, two diplomas and membership of a Royal College though :wink:

[Scally]

thanks for this thread just looked at my certificate it ran out 2 weeks ago just as well booked on the 4 day course in april.

[Andy]

I've no first aid qualifications.

Have got degrees in medicine and surgery, two diplomas and membership of a Royal College though :wink:


how does your training hold up when your off duty?

I remember a while ago there was a bit of fuss becasue a lot of NHS nurses couldn't adapt their training to a camping environment. Ithink some of it was todo with CPR without the breathing kit.

[2blackcat]

I've got the certicate for the four day one. Never had to use it in anger. The one time I was involved with an RTA there were more experienced people around so I got relegated to looking after the dog that was thrown out of the car through the windscreen. Not a mark on him. :?:

Also looked at the using herbal remedies with first aid course but work got in the way of attending that one. Have to check when that course runs again



Steve

[Motorbike Man]

My certs are out of date at the moment, but I did spend 10 years in the St. Johns Ambulance as well as working as a qualified first aider for some years after that, so I'm fairly confident if it comes down to it :wink: Had to use it in anger a couple of times, including once when I had to do full CPR for about 15 minutes as there was no one else who had any idea and the Paramedics got stuck in traffic. Probably one of the most exhausting things I've ever had to do.


Also looked at the using herbal remedies with first aid course but work got in the way of attending that one. Have to check when that course runs again
Any chance of someone posting some info on that course?

[RovingArcher]

I've no proper trainer by an acredited source, but have received training from my EMT-1A California and nationally certified better half.

[zambezi]

I have attained first aid training at various points through my life although the last one [as a sub set of the PADI Rescue Diver qualification] is probably in a lapsed state.

It is probably fortuitous that my wife is a nurse.

[Carcajou Garou]

I have been a guest of our Emergency many, many, many times (stabbed, slashed, puntured, ripped, broken, contused) and have paid great attention at the medical treatments that I was privy to :o): :rolmao: :-P :o): Along with St. John and the Red Cross first aid course I am fairly well versed in pain and suffering :rolmao: :?: I shouldn't have said that!!!
just a confused thought :nana:

[RovingArcher]

:shock: :lol: been punctured, sliced, diced and broken a few times myself brother. They call that life, eh? :wink:

[Les Marshall]

I'm a medic in the reserves and do lot's and lot's of training, and where I work we deal with the aftermath of friday and saturday night binges.

[bambodoggy]

Been learning first aid since my cub days.... been a four day first aider for the last 12 years too and still valid now.....still learning all the time...
Did a basic medics course in the TA too...

Cuts, fainting and sickness are my main conquests as an aider....only once did I worry I might have a problem with a casualty (mountain bike brake level through a boys themoral artery when he went over the handle bars) but he was ok in the end as the ambulance got to us pretty quick luckily and I had other instructors to help with the pressure application.

[falling rain]

I've had first aid training pretty much since I was 16 and currently hold FAW Certificate. I've had to deal with the usual fainting, splinters cuts etc with the cadets. The worst incident was an RTA in Germany when I was in the Army, when a Landrover with a British Army Driver and 3 American officers crashed into a lorry carrying eggs of all things. There was blood and eggs all over the show. I dealt with a chap (one of the American Officers who'd had his nose sheered from his face and was delirious, the hole in his face was about the size of a small tea plate and of course bleeding heavily. He wouldn't lay still and was ranting a fair bit. An experience I'll never forget.
While We were dealing with the accident a staff car pulled up to the scene, an American officer got out and went to the landrover wreckage and pulled out a briefcase, got back in the staff car and drove away. They didn't help at all, so there must have been something very very important in that briefcase !! Another memory of this incident was an arrogant German driver who refused to be diverted past the accident. He insisted on going past and told us we were not the police so wasn't going to pay attention to our instructions. We were just doing as we'd been trained to do and that was traffic control in the event of an accident, but that German guy wasn't playing the game. He was a very arrogant person.

[bambodoggy]

Another memory of this incident was an arrogant German driver who refused to be diverted past the accident. He insisted on going past and told us we were not the police so wasn't going to pay attention to our instructions. We were just doing as we'd been trained to do and that was traffic control in the event of an accident, but that German guy wasn't playing the game. He was a very arrogant person.

That's fairly rare in my experience, I've usually found the German locals very friendly and helpful.....always one idiot though hey wherever you go and it's usually me that finds them! ! ! :?:

[falling rain]

That's fairly rare in my experience, I've usually found the German locals very friendly and helpful.....always one idiot though hey wherever you go and it's usually me that finds them! ! ! :?:
I lived in Germany for 6 years and on the whole they are indeed very freindly, but as you say you get 'em in every country not least our own. It may be he didn't like being asked to do something by a British Soldier in his own country or he was in a rush to be somewhere who knows :?:

[bambodoggy]

I lived in Germany for 6 years and on the whole they are indeed very freindly, but as you say you get 'em in every country not least our own. It may be he didn't like being asked to do something by a British Soldier in his own country or he was in a rush to be somewhere who knows :?:

Who knows indeed Matey! :?: maybe a bit of both! :lol:

[Realgar]

Due for retraining at Easter after much nagging of the dept. None of our medics ( GPs and surgeons ) are supposed to do first aid in the dept - insurance problems ( mind you I'm not sure I'd trust a surgeon for first aid - they rarely take blood samples without making a mess of my arm )
Realgar

[Rob]

Just walked in the door after completing my 3rd St John First Aid At Work requal.

I have also done the Wilderness Medical Training - Advanced Medicine for Remote Foreign Travel course. Which was excellent. There is a review around here somewhere (sorry Tone) :wink:

[chris]

Yep, trained in Remote emergency care and Expedition medicine over a decade now, due again next year.

You can never do enough medical training for the outdoors, what get's me is everytime I renew CPR, it's changed :roll:

Chris

[Realgar]

Yep, trained in Remote emergency care and Expedition medicine over a decade now, due again next year.

You can never do enough medical training for the outdoors, what get's me is everytime I renew CPR, it's changed :roll:

Chris

What's remote emergency care? Treating people in remote locations or talking to frightened people on the other end of radio and telling them where to press to stop the bleeding?

You'd think by now CPR would have settled down - what's the current ratio ( just in case I need it before the next course )?

[arctic hobo]

15:2, but that was last year.

[Celtic Dragon]

It still is. There was a huge disscusion about the old 5:1 and the new 15:2 at my dive club, got very intresting, when you have 2 nurses and a paramedic explaining it to you. The FA training for the dive was funny, the instructor was the casualty whilst the paramedic did the actual teaching!!! Talk about dropping yourslef in it, he wanted a passtime where he could escape his job, fat chance :D

[Brian]

Currently trained team madic (Army) which also qualifies me for the St Johns Ambulance first aid certificate, been doing first aid since I was young, was a member of the British Red Cross from the age of 7. Used to get taught 5:1 ratio if there were 2 of you with the 15:2 on your own. I got told that EAR is now RB, Rescue Breathing, is that the same for the rest of you.

Brian

[Rob]

Yup.....rescue breaths are the new ones :wink:

[Chopper]

All this talk of how the American officers were, but how were the egg's?? :roll: :roll:

[mercury]

Currently my only training is via the TA military type first aid training , not much good in civvy street.

About 10 + years ago did a Paramedic Uk course which qualified me to Basic Emergency Medical Technician, which I think is the lowest qual you can get , it was a weeks course with the RAF and therefore militarty orientated but very good for the confidence as it was quite intensive

Thinking of doing a 1st aid at work course again with the TA but proper first aid

[MartiniDave]

St John's first aider at work, runs for about another year.

Also had some additional training when I used to be a scuba diver.

Dave

[Furface]

I was at a talk given by a conultant anaethstatist on resuscitation. From the talk, it really became clear that there is no absolute correct ratio, it varies with a multitude of considerations. That said, in a first aid situation, the most important thing is to do something, so remember a set ratio and stick with it. You will be doing the very best you can.

My certificate had was expired when I was in a situation where it was needed. Believe me, you won't be cross checking with a text book and no-one will criticise you for doing it wrong, as long as you "Do something, Please".

I was re-certified at the earliest opportunity (I'm on day release).

[falling rain]

All this talk of how the American officers were, but how were the egg's?? :roll: :roll:
Scrambled !! :shock:

[whitebuffalo]

Surely being a trained first aider goes hand in hand with Bushcraft? Any fool can pick up a knife and cut themself but a wise man will have the knowledge to heal himself also.

[SARHound]

Fully trained and cert in Wilderness Medical First Responder with an adjunct ACLS specialty. Comes in handy with my SAR hobby.

Hound

[pe1pme]

first aid, first responder, BLS, ALS, ATLS, SIGMA(fast response unit for medical assistence at large accidents and dissasters), first aid instructor and LOTUS (national trainingschool for simulating injuries)

Wim

[woodsitter]

I had various first aid trainings. I guess here in Holland they have a bit of a different system of courses, but I am confident that I can be useful in case of emergency. In any accident you have to improvise anyway, so boosting your knowledge and confidence by doing a course is very useful in my opinion.

For myself I'm very confident in bringing my girlfriend whenever on a big trip. She's a doctor, that helps a lot'. However, the stuff she regards as absolutely necessary :shock: my god, that's another two pounds in drugs and bandages.

Talking about drugs :lol: guess where she is working! O.k. I live in Amsterdam, and what do you guys think of when hearing amsterdam? Admit it, it's drugs. Well she works at the city clinic for homeless and drug addicts. She's one of the few people in the country that can administer prescripion heroine or whatever makes you happy. :wink: Not much need for heroine or methadon, but I can imagine situations where a shot of morphine is the thing you might want most. :shock:

Well never had to and hope I never will. Burns, cuts, blisters, that's about the worst I came across in the woods.

[Fenlander]

I have an current Outdoor First Aid certificate. A requirement of my employer.

[Keith_Beef]

Been learning first aid since my cub days....

My first aid training was Cubs and Scouts, too. Now that I've got two small kids, I know I should go and do some proper training.


Cuts, fainting and sickness are my main conquests as an aider....

Cuts, grazes, knocks to the head are my most frequent injuries. I ought to get a tetanus jab, too, I suppose. I get cuts on my hands, and splinters and thorns, from DIY and what have you.

Most of the time, I let a small cut bleed for a little while to wash out anything that's in ther, then disinfect with 90º alcohol and fix the edges together to let the cut heal.

I don't consider myself particularly tall, at 5'11.1/2", but living in a world designed by and for short people, I get a lot of bangs to the head, with cuts, from doorways and badly thought out kitchens...

Fainting, I think, is a dangerous thing. Especially the bit where the victim's head hits the pavement.

Keith.

[bambodoggy]

I ought to get a tetanus jab, too, I suppose. I get cuts on my hands, and splinters and thorns, from DIY and what have you.Keith.

Hey Keith, I don't know if you realised but if you've had 5 or more tetanus jabs in your life then you don't need anymore. I worked with service dogs a while ago and was often nipped and used to tootle down to my doctors to get a jab thinking I needed one each time.... On what was (I guess) my 6th or 7th time the doctor popped his head out (usually the nurse does the injection) and mentioned that I didn't need it and not to bother coming back again (in a polite way!lol).

So....no more jabs for me! :o):

[Keith_Beef]

Hey Keith, I don't know if you realised but if you've had 5 or more tetanus jabs in your life then you don't need anymore. I worked with service dogs a while ago and was often nipped and used to tootle down to my doctors to get a jab thinking I needed one each time.... On what was (I guess) my 6th or 7th time the doctor popped his head out (usually the nurse does the injection) and mentioned that I didn't need it and not to bother coming back again (in a polite way!lol).

So....no more jabs for me! :o):

Up to leaving school, at sixteen, I was told that I had to have a booster every five or ten years (don't remember which)... I think I may have had another one in 1993 (before going to Russia, I have jabs for Hep A, Hep B, Diphtheria, maybe a couple of others... so I may have had a Tetanus jab, too).

No way have I been through ten Tetanus boosters, though! I'm not that old!


Keith.

[Andy]

How many peopole that have done the FAW (first aid at work) did any practice at removing crash helmets?

This was a major issue for me as it was included in loads of courses but never given much thought (other then you don't do it very often). It was something that I trained quite a few people to do in my time (when I tought FAW)
It's going to be interesting in the new division here in nottingham

[bambodoggy]

No way have I been through ten Tetanus boosters, though! I'm not that old!Keith.

:rolmao: Sorry buddy....didn't mean to imply you were an oldtimer! lol I'm only 30 myself.... I just seem to have had loads of tetanus jabs!

Adi has started a new thread to see if anyone knows for sure but as I say after about 5 or 6 as far as I have been told....you don't need anymore!

[bambodoggy]

How many peopole that have done the FAW (first aid at work) did any practice at removing crash helmets?

This was a major issue for me as it was included in loads of courses but never given much thought (other then you don't do it very often). It was something that I trained quite a few people to do in my time (when I tought FAW)
It's going to be interesting in the new division here in nottingham

Anyone removing or trying to remove my helmet after a crash had better be a minimum of paramedic or they can expect a whole heap of trouble from me!

I have a black full face helmet (like the old bill have so that the whole front lifts up out of the way if you need to get in for mouth to mouth) there is NO reason why anyone should be removing helmets other than this. I have a large yellow sign on both the front and rear of the lid ordering (not asking - ordering) people NOT to take it off....period!

I know some people have been trained in the correct way to do this, I just don't care....as I say unless you're a paramedic, Nurse or Doctor LEAVE MY LID ON!
You may get it off correctly and manage not to break my neck but if it's all that's holding my brain in and I'm at the side of the road you'd better be good with stopping the goo oozing out!!!! :yikes:

[JimH]

Anyone removing or trying to remove my helmet after a crash had better be a minimum of paramedic or they can expect a whole heap of trouble from me!

I have a black full face helmet (like the old bill have so that the whole front lifts up out of the way if you need to get in for mouth to mouth) there is NO reason why anyone should be removing helmets other than this. I have a large yellow sign on both the front and rear of the lid ordering (not asking - ordering) people NOT to take it off....period!

Very wise. Especially as most flip-fronts *won't* come off without opening first - doesn't bear thinking about.

I wear an open-face except on the track (not allowed :nono: ) which saves me that, but subjects me to alarming suggestions as to what might happen to my face in a crash.

Sorry, gone off topic already...

Jim.

[Andy]

Flip up full face lids are great when your treating them

They don't use them at speedway though (or didn't when I was in St Johns)

[shinobi]

One of the reasons removing helmets is not taught on a FAW course is the fact that the course is called "First Aid at Work." Very few peoples work includes motorbike helmets so it isn't included in the criteria of that course.

As to the actual removal, we were taught only to remove it if the person has stopped breathing. In that situation the person is technically dead anyway, so you can't make them any worse :shock: But you had better be sure that they have stopped breathing first.

Cheers,

Martin

[bambodoggy]

Yep....Shinobi is right....stopping breathing is the ONLY reason to remove a lid.....

It was actually after being on my last FAW course where the subject came up that I went out and bought my fullface helmet, the thought of mouth to mouth in a lid hadn't occured to me before that although I knew you shouldn't take lids off.

Andy...I guess they wear whatever's best for racing....I'd still have to be 100% they weren't breathing before I...
In fact no....I just wouldn't....sorry Mate, I'd leave it for the experts :shock:
If you're an expert then great but I wouldn't teach it to anybody if it was me running the class....(I used to be a trainer/assess for the HSE 4day FA course - lapsed now....just a normal qualified bod)....I think it's too easy to leave pupils with the idea they can cope with anything ans they end up diving into situations that they really should leave well alone. :wink:

[Andy]

Yep....Shinobi is right....stopping breathing is the ONLY reason to remove a lid.....
agreed (We've only taken one off once when we waited 40mins for the ambulance)



I wouldn't teach it to anybody if it was me running the class

agreed. This is an issue I have with most of the shorter course. I had the advantage that when I tought first aid it never really ended. My problem is that taking a skid list off is included in first aid books and then isn't coverd. I think it should just be left out

[bambodoggy]

Too right Mate..... Hey, looks like everyone's in agreement on here for once!!! Yippy!!!! :o): :o): :o):

[Andy]

while we're at it emergancy child birth should be left out as well

I only know one first aider that done any practice with a mock up and that was on a dedicated course

[arctic hobo]

while we're at it emergancy child birth should be left out as well

I only know one first aider that done any practice with a mock up and that was on a dedicated course

I covered this on my ocean first aid, as although people shouldn't go cruising when expecting I have to be qualified to deliver if it comes to it. The mock ups are rubbish though :thumbs_do


before going to Russia, I have jabs for Hep A, Hep B, Diphtheria, maybe a couple of others... so I may have had a Tetanus jab, too

Were these compulsory? When I went to Russia we had no injections. Or does it depend on the area you're going to :?:

[bambodoggy]

I didn't have any injections for Russia either but I was only staying in and around the Moscow area so I'm guessing you only need them if you are travelling out into the wilds.... :?:


We did the child birth thing on the very first four day course I ever took but it hasn't been included in any course since that I have done.
Same applies to drug use/mis-use and over dose, that was in the first course but has been left out of each course since.

[shinobi]

Agreed.
I've noticed that the FAW course is gradually being eroded from what you should do to what you should not do. This was very noticeable on my last refresher where I felt that I could have got through the practical assessment just by walking into the room and telling the victim I did not feel confident to treat them and was going to call an ambulance :roll:

I'm on my refresher course next week and I'm dreading it :shock: the training has been reduced from four days down to two. It is no longer being held by St. Johns, it is being held by some tin-pot company that quoted the lowest charges to the company. If I do not feel confident that their training is up to scratch, I will be handing back my first aider badge and telling British airways to poke it !! I will do the course externally with St. Johns for my own reasons such as the SAR team but I will not be exercising my duty at work.

There. I've well and truly hoisted my flag up the pole now !!!

Cheers,

Martin

[bambodoggy]

Agreed.
I've noticed that the FAW course is gradually being eroded from what you should do to what you should not do. This was very noticeable on my last refresher where I felt that I could have got through the practical assessment just by walking into the room and telling the victim I did not feel confident to treat them and was going to call an ambulance :roll:

I'm on my refresher course next week and I'm dreading it :shock: the training has been reduced from four days down to two. It is no longer being held by St. Johns, it is being held by some tin-pot company that quoted the lowest charges to the company. If I do not feel confident that their training is up to scratch, I will be handing back my first aider badge and telling British airways to poke it !! I will do the course externally with St. Johns for my own reasons such as the SAR team but I will not be exercising my duty at work.

There. I've well and truly hoisted my flag up the pole now !!!

Cheers,

Martin

I'm on my frefresher course on Thursday and Friday of this week...my 4 day cert runs out the end of March so I needed to re do it.
I believe (and could be wrong) that if you do the refresher before you current 4 day thing runs out then you only do the two days but if it's already lapsed then you have to do the whole four days again.
I'm lucky in that I can book whatever course I want and my work just pays for it....I'm doing a St.Johns as I know the teaching will be up to it compared to others.

We did discuss the reduction in training on my last course and the St.Johns trainer was of the opinion that things like child Birth and Drug mis-use were being dropped in order for there to be more time on other things and that it was very unlikely that as a workplace first aider we would encounter them. Personally I prefer to know than not BUT I can see their point and have to agree with it, we dont' get many pregnant people working in Engineering! :o): She did say that if it was a specific course for a particular occupation then they would taylor it as such...e.g Nursery assistants would do more on CPR for kids and babies....which makes sense.
She also said they didn't want to over load the students with info they will most likely never use....again, it's different if you're out in the wilds but in Surrey I'm never more than 10 to 15mins tops from an ambulance.
And....without being rude, the course is open to the public of any type and there were some complete mongs on my last course who had I been the trainer or assesor (as I used to be) I would not have wanted to try to teach them too much as their brains seemed to find it hard to cope with the limited subjects we did do!!!! :lol:

[bambodoggy]

Cool....passed my reassesment on Thursday and Friday....hadn't looked at this forum since Wednesday and found over 800 posts I'd missed in four days!!!! You guys and gals have been busy little bee's!!!! :rolmao:

[shinobi]

Well done Phil :biggthump
Mine starts tomorrow. I hope it's ok !!

Cheers,

Martin

[bambodoggy]

Good luck Mate.....sure it'll be fine, they haven't changed as much this time as they usually have! :biggthump

[arctic hobo]

Good one Phil :biggthump

As regards injections for Russia, I was in Pevek. As an idea of where Pevek is: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=russia&addtohistory=&formtype=address&searchtype=address&cat=&address=&city=pevek&state=&zipcode=

[Martyn]

I've no first aid qualifications.

Have got degrees in medicine and surgery, two diplomas and membership of a Royal College though :wink:

Ditto, no first aid certificates at all. But I am a Registered Nurse, I hold the relevant degree, I work in a trauma intensive care unit and am Advanced Life Support certified - which I actually get to practice on an alarmingly regular basis.

[SARHound]

Ditto, no first aid certificates at all. But I am a Registered Nurse, I hold the relevant degree, I work in a trauma intensive care unit and am Advanced Life Support certified - which I actually get to practice on an alarmingly regular basis.

Guys FYI,

There is a world of difference between tauma in an ER and long term managment of injuries with limited equipment in the outdoors.

Our courses we run have paramedics, nurses and Dr's on it who had no idea there is another world of prehostpital care they were not trained on. It is a humbling experience and a real eye opener for them.

Decisions have to made in remote locations that never are made in urban areas. IE:

What O2 rate and when to administer when a patient is 18 hrs from help and only 1 D cylinder is available?

What meds commonly used can help a patient until rescue?

How to reduce a femur fracture without severing an artery and with no equipment?

HOw to fluid rehydrate without any IV supplies?

How to manage alergic reactions 2 days form help?

The list is endless and is not taught in mainstream medical education.

I recommend a high level of wilderness first aid for those in the medical field, it is worth the expense if you plan on spending extended periods far form help.

SARHound

[EdS]

Start my Mountain Rescue Council FA course next week. Should be intresting but very hard work. Plus the practical exam is outside just for added "intrest".

[Doc]

You make a good point. I've done both the pre-hospital care courses and major incident courses run by these guys http://www.basics-scotland.org.uk/ and they made the point that ATLS/ALS/ACLS courses assume you have a team of at least six (I think....is that right Martyn?) and er, a hospital. Pre-hospital care takes place in what they charmingly call 'an uncontrolled environment' which I guess covers everything from blizzards to homicidal axe-wielding maniacs on the loose.

Here in the UK it would be unusual (not impossible though) to be more than two days from help. Wilderness medicine is very interesting. I remember seeing a job as doctor for the British Antarctic survey and being a bit tempted.

[SARHound]

Just to be clear Doc, it is great to have highly trained Docs and paramedics in the bush as well because their scope of practice is so much higher than a first responder. :wink: .


Also when I say 2 days from help that could be only 5km from a major road but it takes that long to evac them out for whatever reason, not uncommon.

Hound

[Andy]

I remember seeing a job as doctor for the British Antarctic survey and being a bit tempted.

I seem to remember a guy who my dad worked with left for 6months to do one of these jobs and enjoyed it, but nobody seemed to like working in that hosipital.

As an update on my first aid skills I visited on devision of st johns on tuesday and hope to see the other group tomorrow.

Due to changes in whats coverd in first aid courses since I was last in St Johns it seems I'll want to do some more courses in whichever new devision I join. We have to find out if the stuff I've done in the past will count towards my time trained before I can do medical gasses. Defib training and specialist in infant first aid can be done straight after the FAW and ECS (essential care skills)

Sadly St Johns have increased prtective clothing which members can get from a kevlar helmet (like padamedics wear) to overt and coverrt stab/bullet proof vests

[theorsmeister]

Trained by army cadet force in first aid


good knowledge and no cpr and ar and such like
as well as various remedies and how to deal with injuries

[stotRE]

My tupence is that first aid is important and it saves lives.
I have had several (i will not say privelidged) occasions to use my first aid training under fire and in peace time and i drew on my training and managed to save the life of four people who would have died from their injuries.
I have treated one amputation victim, one gunshot wound victim, a bomb blast victim and a hypophermia victim.

I don't like to blow my own trumpet but i am glad that i had the opportunity to save four lives but i have also seen casualties that were beyond help and i will carry their face's to my grave.

Get first aid training and consider it more important than any bushcraft training.

[FeralSheryl]

It's on my To Do list. Seriously.

[zackerty]

St John Advanced First Aid...I have to do a full day refresher every six months, as part of my job in the electrical power industry.

[Martyn]

You make a good point. I've done both the pre-hospital care courses and major incident courses run by these guys http://www.basics-scotland.org.uk/ and they made the point that ATLS/ALS/ACLS courses assume you have a team of at least six (I think....is that right Martyn?) and er, a hospital.

Yeah, though in practice it's a team of however many happen to be around when it kicks off.

Though being in hospital presents it's own specific set of problems. If a patient is in ITU, they are likely to already be intubated and connected to a sophisticated ventilator, with blood gasses done every 4 hours or so. They will have full cardiac monitoring in place, with a transduced arterial line for BP moniotoring and ABG's. They will already have a central line, probably with ionotropic infusions already running. They may have a swan ganz in place, or an oeasophageal dopler with regular cardiac output studdies. They will have constant serum potassium levels monitored and corrected, same for magnesium.

If someone arrests in such circumstances, it's unlikely to be a PEA arrest with a glaringly obvious correctable cause as homeostasis is so closely monitored and maintained.

I'd be lost in the outdoors without all my equipment to tell me whats going on - probably just as out of my depth as a paramedic would be in ITU. That said, biology is biology wherever you are.

I voted for "no propper training". It seems I'm in the minority at that - which can only be a good thing. :)

[leon-1]

Martyn, I have training from the forces, but it is now well out of date and to be honest unless you are likely to suffer traumatic amputation or GSW a lot of it would be useless.

I did find a lot of the guys had common sense and a lot of first aid seems to stem from that.

I was taught a lot and although the rules appear to change every five minutes a lot is the same, however I would not deem to work on someone without their express permission even if it would save thier life. I've not the insurance to cover me for a start, but at least you work in a job that can make a difference. :o

[Martyn]

Martyn, I have training from the forces, but it is now well out of date and to be honest unless you are likely to suffer traumatic amputation or GSW a lot of it would be useless.

I did find a lot of the guys had common sense and a lot of first aid seems to stem from that.

I was taught a lot and although the rules appear to change every five minutes a lot is the same, however I would not deem to work on someone without their express permission even if it would save thier life. I've not the insurance to cover me for a start, but at least you work in a job that can make a difference. :o

Mate, any level of first aid training is better than none, you'd be amazed how many arrests we get with "no bystander CPR" and they dont do very well at all - Even if we get past the immediate life threatening issues, the hypoxic damage almost always leaves the poor blighter with some (or many) deficits. I really should do some first aid training myself. Even if your first aid cert in not current, you will have the initiative to get stuck in and that may make all the difference to someone one day.

Maybe it's a bit of complaisance (or arrogance) on my part. Our ICU is a major center for trauma care. From Manchester to Birmingham, we get pretty much all the severe trauma's. The center of excellence thing I think comes from having such a high level of exposure to major traumas on such a regular basis. We also have neurosurgeons, so all the head injuries come to us as well. The hellicopters fly the bad ones straight past the district generals and bring em straight to our door. The downside is that with dealing with such severely injured people, we have a very high mortality rate. Sometimes, when so many of your patients die, it's difficult to feel you are making a difference. Not true of course, we make a big difference, just takes a bit of remembering sometimes.

On the upside, I do feel very well skilled. That's one of the positives for having high and regular levels of exposure to severely injured people. Real life exposure simply cant be substitued with theory.

That's no excuse for not doing a first aid course though. It's a different discipline with a different set of skills - one I (and everybody else) really should take the time out for.

[leon-1]

Mate, any level of first aid training is better than none, you'd be amazed how many arrests we get with "no bystander CPR" and they dont do very well at all.

That was one of the first things that I was taught was the first level of care is probably the most important, speed, quality and not sacrificing one for the other.


That's no excuse for not doing a first aid course though. It's a different discipline with a different set of skills - one I (and everybody else) really should take the time out for.

Without a doubt you are correct in this, the problem then comes in people having the courage to use what they know, I have knowledge (not enough practice) in the subject, but have not had the time untill made redundant to actually start looking at courses and reviewing notes.

Things change all the time and you never really seem to know where you are, but push comes to shove I will use what I know to an extent (I am not allowed to use tournique outside the armed forces for sure) anything else apart from escharotomy :eek: which I hope many here do not know about goes.

I think first aid a massively important thing and think that current and regular training for people would be more than a good idea for all :)

[Buckshot]

I'm currently a first aider at work, my cert runs out at the end of the year so I've got to go on a refresher before then.
I think the bushcraft community has a high percentage of FA's - it's a similar mentality - being responsible and prepared

Cheers

Mark

[Rhodri]

Currently have a valid certificate for bog-standard First Aid at Work. A requirement of my job. Useful in its own way but I'd like to take it further.

Incidentally, my employer (and the St John's people who do my training) has stressed that as its FAW I should probably not use it outside of work - as I would not be protected against any legal action should anything go wrong. :( Appalling attitude IMO, and a very depressing sign of the times.

Perhaps I should wait to use my other (tenuously) relevant qualification - a PhD in Osteoarchaeology... You have to be very dead before that kicks in. At least I wouldn't be sued though... :D

Cheers,
Rod

[moduser]

I've had a first aid at work certificate for so many years.

Never taken it further other than I did a mountain leadership course 10 years ago which had a lot extra bits in it, foucus on exposure (hypothermia, frostbite) using the various stretcher types for evacuation and also helicopter resue (which was exciting).

D

[FeralSheryl]

The Red Cross do a number of First Aid Courses for Outdoor Pursuits (http://www.redcrossfirstaidtraining.c o.uk/VD15/default.asp?PSID=113) specifically, which could be a good one to take.

[Spacemonkey]

Usual First Aid courses, and a North Sea Survival Course (and oddly enough OPITO registered, but never used it...) which covers such lovelies as fire fighting too. The best bit of this course though is the escape from an upside down, underwater helicopter. Now that was fun! And the enclosed lifeboat evac where it drops 30 odd feet into the drink, before surfacing, going for a little cruise, then evac into a RIB.

I have a few surgical skills that i practice daily, but none of my 'patients' have ever recovered ;)

[Ogri the trog]

Like many folks here,
My initial training was plugging holes through the forces, which took quite a while to transfer to the normal first aid that industry likes to see. I've been qualified for the last 8 years, with regular refreshers. The only bit I don't hold now, that I used to, is use of a defibrillator.

Ogri the trog

[Laurence Dell]

I did my First Aid at Work requalification with St John's last week and they have simplified it now, eliminating the multiple choice test and circulation is not checked by taking pulse any more for example.

St John's for example cover the issue of using the training outside work by providing a membership and insurance scheme that you subcribe to and it covers you to use First Aid outside work for the three years that the qualification lasts.:)
I wouldn't mind taking it further with training more specific to my industry, or doing evening classes that go more in depth than the FAW.

Still I haven't had to put any of it into practice yet unless you count plasters and eyewash:rolleyes: and I work in a high risk industry:cool:

[raiderrescuer]

Been Military trained about a 50 times in twenty years, Been Red Cross (1st Aid & CPR) certified 4 times and then Medic First Aid & CPR trained x2 then Medic First Aid, CPR & AED (Automated External Defibrillation) Facilitator (Instructor) qualified but all of it is currently it's expired...I think I can still remember how to perform First Aid without the little qual card.

Here's a link to the Medic First Aid outfit:
http://www.medicfirstaid.us/

They focus on basic skill sets...stuff you won't forget when you go into auto-pilot mode during an emergency.

[Minotaur]

Also looked at the using herbal remedies with first aid course but work got in the way of attending that one. Have to check when that course runs again

Steve

Any chance of some more information on this one.


My certs are out of date at the moment, but I did spend 10 years in the St. Johns Ambulance as well as working as a qualified first aider for some years after that, so I'm fairly confident if it comes down to it :wink: Had to use it in anger a couple of times, including once when I had to do full CPR for about 15 minutes as there was no one else who had any idea and the Paramedics got stuck in traffic. Probably one of the most exhausting things I've ever had to do.

To sort of go over what over people have said, they change something every time. Almost always CPR. A lot of the changes come down to which study they use. They are after a set of para skills based on a hospitial based study.


Anyone removing or trying to remove my helmet after a crash had better be a minimum of paramedic or they can expect a whole heap of trouble from me!

I have a black full face helmet (like the old bill have so that the whole front lifts up out of the way if you need to get in for mouth to mouth) there is NO reason why anyone should be removing helmets other than this. I have a large yellow sign on both the front and rear of the lid ordering (not asking - ordering) people NOT to take it off....period!

I know some people have been trained in the correct way to do this, I just don't care....as I say unless you're a paramedic, Nurse or Doctor LEAVE MY LID ON!
You may get it off correctly and manage not to break my neck but if it's all that's holding my brain in and I'm at the side of the road you'd better be good with stopping the goo oozing out!!!! :yikes:

A FAW I know once had to restrain a Doctor from removing a helmet, he said the best bit was the abuse the doc got from the Para medic when he arrived. Do not take helmets off!


Agreed.
I've noticed that the FAW course is gradually being eroded from what you should do to what you should not do. This was very noticeable on my last refresher where I felt that I could have got through the practical assessment just by walking into the room and telling the victim I did not feel confident to treat them and was going to call an ambulance :roll:


The point of a FAW course is that an Ambulance should not be more than 15 minutes away(who ever decided that lives in the real world?), so they keep trying to make it more about keeping people alive for that 15 minutes, than giving you skills to clear people yourself.



I'm on my refresher course next week and I'm dreading it :shock: the training has been reduced from four days down to two. It is no longer being held by St. Johns, it is being held by some tin-pot company that quoted the lowest charges to the company. If I do not feel confident that their training is up to scratch, I will be handing back my first aider badge and telling British airways to poke it !! I will do the course externally with St. Johns for my own reasons such as the SAR team but I will not be exercising my duty at work.


It is a refresher, the point is to make sure you DR ABC and CPR are what they should be. Then tell you about the changes, a lot of the tin pot companys are run by pre-hospital care personnel, so you may find yourself taught by a paramedic.


You make a good point. I've done both the pre-hospital care courses and major incident courses run by these guys http://www.basics-scotland.org.uk/ and they made the point that ATLS/ALS/ACLS courses assume you have a team of at least six (I think....is that right Martyn?) and er, a hospital. Pre-hospital care takes place in what they charmingly call 'an uncontrolled environment' which I guess covers everything from blizzards to homicidal axe-wielding maniacs on the loose.

You told porkies, Doc. You do have a first aid qual, that is the point of Basics, to get all pre-hospital staff on the same page.


Like many folks here,
My initial training was plugging holes through the forces, which took quite a while to transfer to the normal first aid that industry likes to see. I've been qualified for the last 8 years, with regular refreshers. The only bit I don't hold now, that I used to, is use of a defibrillator.
Ogri the trog

The St.John's and the red cross do run courses for defibrillator use, but it depends what type you want to use. The courses tend to be for autos, unless you do the more advanced things which start to cover manuals.


I did my First Aid at Work requalification with St John's last week and they have simplified it now, eliminating the multiple choice test and circulation is not checked by taking pulse any more for example.

That is a bit worrying, the point of the test is incase Healty and Safety have to check up on you, that proves you knew the stuff.

I have been FAW for 12plus years and I am doing my EMT in November, which is hopefully going to be my first step on the long run to becoming a Paramedic. Also got my first ILS course and my refresher before then.

[Mikey P]

I've no first aid qualifications.

Have got degrees in medicine and surgery, two diplomas and membership of a Royal College though :wink:

Sorry - I'm afraid you haven't got the job - you're over-qualified.

Only messin'!

Anyone in the military will have basic first aid training (life saving) and I've done a few extra's too. Some of it was a bit too advanced for me, though, and I don't reckon I'd attempt it for risk of killing off the patient rather rapidly! It's amazing what you remember...

Are they teaching basic first aid in schools, yet? Would this be a good idea?

[KB1HZM]

Combat Lifesaver trained while in the army ...but thats was 7 years ago
American Heart Assco. CPR, First Aid, AED with enviromental Instructor with the new standards of 30 compressions to 2 breaths...certified and up to date

[Tribaljamin]

Ex-fire fighter and ex-lifeguard - not trained for few years though.

[malcolmc]

Got my first aid badge in the cubs and kept it up ever since. Currently qualified First Aid at Work but looking to do a wilderness FA course early next year.

Question: If 2 bushcrafters are walking in the woods how many should know about first aid? I would suggest the anwser is 2. Always been a bit concerned that the law requires only one first aider in some workplaces - leave? first aider requiring first aid? :eek:

[copper_head]

Got my first aid certificate when doing the Duke of Edinburgh's award, hopelessly out of date methinks. But still the basics are what's important right? i found you can pick up alot of info from survival writers as well, especially about dehydration/hypothermia.

[rik_uk3]

basic, workplace, advanced, emergency and defib, some need updating, and I go on an ECG refresher course in December. It all comes down to maintaining the airway, stopping blood flow, safely immobilising the patient and shouting for help (all at the same time very often)

Any first aid training is good.

PS, make sure you are in a safe position FIRST before helping out, and maintain your safety, if your hurt you don't get to help the patient :eek:

[malcolmc]

One of the reasons removing helmets is not taught on a FAW course is the fact that the course is called "First Aid at Work." Very few peoples work includes motorbike helmets so it isn't included in the criteria of that course.

As to the actual removal, we were taught only to remove it if the person has stopped breathing. In that situation the person is technically dead anyway, so you can't make them any worse :shock: But you had better be sure that they have stopped breathing first.
Bit uneasy about that one; my training is they're alive until a doctor says otherwise. That's why you don't stop CPR until professional aid arrives. ;)

[Longstrider]

I did the FAW course with St Johns but it's now expired. I also did quite a bit of FA training in accompanyment to my training as a Liferguard, including EAR and ECM of course.
So far my training, a little common sense, and my experience through the University of Life has managed to let me deal with everything that life has thown my way to what I believe to be a pretty good standard. These events have included 3 occasions of full EAR/ECM that resulted in the casualty continuing to enjoy life, one instance of childbirth in a swimming pool changing room (The parents actually named the little fella after me! ), a traumatic amputation of the lower arm (Don't mess with hay-balers!), half a dozen broken bones and a couple of stabbings as well as various minor events (and a couple of more serious injuries) at RTA's.

I recognise that proper training is essential for dealing with a good number of cases, and that employers can often demand that certificates are kept up to date for the purpose of insurance etc, but doing some training, even if that particular qualification is not re-taken to keep it valid, having a basic, sound knowledge of what to do in an emergency situation and having some common sense goes a hell of long way to making you an effective source of help when the manure hits the fan. Knowing your own limits is also an essential piece of the equation as with so many things, "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing". Just stick to what you know, act calmly and as effeciently as you can and you will often be the one that makes all the difference to the outcome of a poor situation.

[Scuba Pete]

I am trained in firstaid, I am also an advanced rescue diver. (scuba diving)

[stovie]

You'd think by now CPR would have settled down - what's the current ratio ( just in case I need it before the next course )?

New BLS guidlines published about 1/12 ago by Resus Council...and what a surprise its all changed again :rolleyes:

Adult
Breath check/signs of life done simultanously (thats a pulse check to some of us...is he pink and warm to other ;) )
If no signs of life (remember the parrot)...get help (phone, carrier pigeon etc)
Now here's the change start compressions first X 30 then breaths X 2.
Breaths 1 sec inspiritory time NOT 2 secs.

Though next year it will probably all change again...

[nickg]

Just finished the Forest Knights wilderness First Aid Course - Excellant weekend and certified at the end as competant person - if you dont do any other course I absolutely recommend this one

Just a few small points

Motorcycle helmets - The general rule is dont remove them until you are sure that there is no head or NECK damage. The bl***y things are as likely to damage necks when being removed as they are likely to cause the damage initially. BUT the chin strap after a shunt is likely to be causing an airway blockage so you may need to loosen or remove the strap even if you dont take the helmet off. Also remember that the helmet is heavy and if left will naturally want to roll the head and neck to one side so always look to support and immobilise it. They are actually warm and make good pillows so they are worth keeping on while waiting for the medics even if there is no injury. Of course if CPR is needed you will have to take it off - good idea if youre not a regular biker is just try to remove a helmet from someone as a practice - its really not straightforward and woth the time spent learning how to keep the head steady whilst doing it

[Tribaljamin]

Just finished the Forest Knights wilderness First Aid Course - Excellant weekend and certified at the end as competant person - if you dont do any other course I absolutely recommend this one

Just a few small points

Motorcycle helmets - The general rule is dont remove them until you are sure that there is no head or NECK damage. The bl***y things are as likely to damage necks when being removed as they are likely to cause the damage initially. BUT the chin strap after a shunt is likely to be causing an airway blockage so you may need to loosen or remove the strap even if you dont take the helmet off. Also remember that the helmet is heavy and if left will naturally want to roll the head and neck to one side so always look to support and immobilise it. They are actually warm and make good pillows so they are worth keeping on while waiting for the medics even if there is no injury. Of course if CPR is needed you will have to take it off - good idea if youre not a regular biker is just try to remove a helmet from someone as a practice - its really not straightforward and woth the time spent learning how to keep the head steady whilst doing it

One of the major selling points for the 'flip-front' bike helmets is that you can perform CPR on a biker.
Just as a side point, CPR rarely works - its a very hit-andmiss 'science'.

[falling rain]

I'm first aid trained.............. and so are my whippets :)

[useless]

Hi there

I have also just done the Forest Knights course and would echo the above.

with reference to...

Just as a side point, CPR rarely works - its a very hit-andmiss 'science'.

I think you are probably right. However, I had to put my FAW training into practice on a hard shoulder one morning. The situation developed and I had to give some poor bugger CPR after dragging him from his car. Turned out he had a heart attack whilst driving.

He died three days later. However, The CPR that I and the emergency services (most notably Fire & Rescue) performed on the roadside gave him a chance to have his family visit him befor he "bailed out". He did all the hard work (the tenacious bugger!), but CPR helped him and his family a bit.

It is surpriseing how few people are first aid trained, and surprising the difference some training can make to peoples lives. :)

[stonyman]

I'm British Red Cross Ambulance Aid Level2 with a De-Fib certificate, oxygen therapy, am able to administer Entonox and insert a oral pharyngeal airway, and carry out CPR to paramedic standard plus all the usual first aid bits and pieces, only trouble is it runs out soon and I have left the Red Cross.

[Tribaljamin]

Hi there

I have also just done the Forest Knights course and would echo the above.

with reference to...

Just as a side point, CPR rarely works - its a very hit-andmiss 'science'.

I think you are probably right. However, I had to put my FAW training into practice on a hard shoulder one morning. The situation developed and I had to give some poor bugger CPR after dragging him from his car. Turned out he had a heart attack whilst driving.

He died three days later. However, The CPR that I and the emergency services (most notably Fire & Rescue) performed on the roadside gave him a chance to have his family visit him befor he "bailed out". He did all the hard work (the tenacious bugger!), but CPR helped him and his family a bit.

It is surpriseing how few people are first aid trained, and surprising the difference some training can make to peoples lives. :)

Ive done CPR on 2 persons (at different times) and seen CPR performed on others, none of them made it unfortunatley.

I think CPR training (just CPR training, not the majority of the other skills taught during first aid course and the like) is given as a confidence building exercise rather than a usable, effective tool.

If at the end of the CPR training, the student is more confident and feels as if he/she can grapple an emergency situation, then its worked.

It reminds me of a 'tool' a friend of mind used to employ. He was a parachute instructor. He used to teach his students the special move used when your main AND reserve shute failed. Students were taught to grab the grass tightly JUST before they impacted at terminal velocity with the hard stuff. Apparently it gave some of the students a bit more security in knowing there was something else that could save them if everything else failed.

In my experience the important points to remember during any first aid / emergency situation are to:
Remain calm,
Remember your training,
Do a bl**dy quick risk assessment and
Give other people (passers-by, pedestrians etc) something to do.

The last point has an amazing affect on most situations. Get people involved. Get them to stop traffic, fetch towels, pick berrys, swing from ropes, anything to keep them enterained.
It clears the space youre working in, brings a sense of calm to a situation and some people can turn out to be reasonably helpful.

[nickg]

One of the major selling points for the 'flip-front' bike helmets is that you can perform CPR on a biker.
Just as a side point, CPR rarely works - its a very hit-andmiss 'science'.

Rarely is better than never - particularly if is you thats on the receiving end. Writing it off as not worth using it is the wrong thing. It works quite well on the majority of drownings IF begun in time and it is better than standing around with your hands in your pocket watching somebody go cold.

[Tribaljamin]

Rarely is better than never - particularly if is you thats on the receiving end. Writing it off as not worth using it is the wrong thing. It works quite well on the majority of drownings IF begun in time and it is better than standing around with your hands in your pocket watching somebody go cold.

Couldnt agree with you more mate; CPR is a valid tool and clearly does have a use within any first aiders mind, but theres always hoo-haa attached with CPR. Its just another tool; an often over-rated tool.

[Wayne]

2% of people will be successfully resusitated using CPR alone.

The figures are higher for drowning casualties.

The only time you should refrain from CPR is on a very hypothermic casualty. there is a high risk of causing Ventricular Defibrillation. (sp)

I think those that attended my first aid course where surprised how different working on people in a realistic setting is from FAW training. Removing a 16 stone man from a ditch with spinal injuries is never going to be easy.

[Tribaljamin]

A sub-officer I worked with in the fire service punched / hit / struck his elderly mum in the chest while she was having a cardic arrest and brought her back into the realms of the living.

Not sure if it was the action or the principal that got the old ticker going again, but it worked!

[Martyn]

A sub-officer I worked with in the fire service punched / hit / struck his elderly mum in the chest while she was having a cardic arrest and brought her back into the realms of the living.

Not sure if it was the action or the principal that got the old ticker going again, but it worked!

It is SOP for ALS trained practitioners. It's called a precordial thump and should only be performed if the arrest is witnessed and it's only any good if the arrest is a VF arrest.

[w00dsmoke]

2% of people will be successfully resusitated using CPR alone.

(sp)

I think those that attended my first aid course where surprised how different working on people in a realistic setting is from FAW training. Removing a 16 stone man from a ditch with spinal injuries is never going to be easy.


Absolutley right. I've carried an 18 stone guy for just under a mile with another person to a farm track from an old wooded coal bing. It was a broken ankle the guy had and we had to get him out to where we could get access with a vehicle. The hardest part was getting him through a fence.

I think the point about cpr is missed on most folk. Finding a place with a defib is absolutley paramount if you want them to live. If I lived ina more remote place I would buy one and get certificated on it's use.

[Greg]

I hold a FAW certificate as a member of an oil refinery First Response Team and because of the nature of the job - First Aider / Fire Fighter - I am also trained in the use of a portable defib unit and various Dreager Oxygen kits.

I also did 12 yrs of annual Field First Aid training with the army which was quite interesting because it involved dealing with multiple casualties - as you can probably imagine, gunshot wounds, battlefield shock, shock, hot & cold weather injuries, broken & dislocated limbs, burns (fire and chemical) etc - your everyday Triage really!

I completely agree that field training to make it as real life as possible is the only way to really learn the subject. Classroom theory is all well and good but it can't beat real to life training in the outdoors!

[Rebelrat]

I am qualified to use a portable defib and current with CPR and first aid.
I'm a Sargeant Major in the Dutch airforce and we train combat first aid every year. It is a good practice for remote locations and bad conditions. It's basic but reliable. Would be great if everyone has some knowledge of first aid.

[waynerck]

I'm faw qualified not long ago but have completed various courses in the past, I have used it a couple of times but that's a story for the campfire.
oh by the way the jet petrol stations (n ireland) are selling nifty first aid kits for 5.99 bargin

[Fallow Way]

I`m currently Appointed Person, FAW, Red Cross Standard and Red Cross Expidition and also a First Aid instructor and regulary training in all sorts, including extraction, as part of being in a Search and Rescue team.


They cycle helmet thing...if you can maintain an airway with it on, leave it on, if you cant, take it off. You may die from spinal injuries...you WILL die from not breathing.

Spinal injuries in genreal are not taught well in my experience, a lot of instructors make brash generalitites and play down the importance of communication, the proceadues for supporting/chaning support or removing a helmet and how much care needs to be taken.

[Greg]

Spinal injuries in genreal are not taught well in my experience, a lot of instructors make brash generalitites and play down the importance of communication, the proceadues for supporting/chaning support or removing a helmet and how much care needs to be taken.

I am quite lucky in this respect because all my First Aid training is done by the on site Fire Brigade Technicians who all have alot of experience and knowledge of spinal and crush injuries.
So we do go into depth as in the event of a catastrophic accident in my place of work there are likely to be alot of these types of injuries aswell as fire/chemical burns!

[addyb]

My certificate has run out, but the "how to do it" stuff in my head hasn't. It was mandatory training back when I was in Air Cadets to take a yearly St. John's Ambulance refresher course. Mind you, I've only ever had to use it once and that was last semester when a classmate of mine cut his hand open badly on the sharp edge of a metal chair.

Cheers,

Adam

[dean2]

my cert has just run out, though i am on a course in may, so i will have my cert back, i would say that it is very usful and i think it would help you when out and about if you even did just a basic course.

Dean ;o)

[saffy]

I've done the Basic Offshore Safety Induction and Emergency Training 3 day course which covers first aid. Long time run out - 4 year period, would need to do a another days refresher training to regain certification.

[Joethefish]

Will agree that even if certificates run out knowledge often stays, mines updated regularly for work but have been trained constantly for over ten years. Basics stay the same odd things change year on year. Some knowledge is better than none. Current knowledge is better than some, putting any knowledge into practice can suck, but always better to know you tried than stood idlly by.
Joe

[twisted firestarter]

Did a basic first aid course and first aid at work course 2 years ago and it shocks me how little I remember. I think they try to cram too much information into too short a space and we were helped with our exam questions which worked wonders with passing but not with taking on board the information. My partner did her course 6 months later and the whole CPR had changed. Still glad I did it though

[mrostov]

Did EMT (Emergency Medical Technician) training in Phoenix a many years ago.

[Callan]

I have got a heartstart certificate for first aid I got with cadets in May. Things like CPR, recovery position, bleeds, breaks, fractures and those sort of things.

[Zodiak]

New BLS guidlines published about 1/12 ago by Resus Council...and what a surprise its all changed again :rolleyes:

If no signs of life (remember the parrot)...get help (phone, carrier pigeon etc)
Now here's the change start compressions first X 30 then breaths X 2.
Breaths 1 sec inspiritory time NOT 2 secs.

Agreed, its a pain to keep changing it but the full details along with explanations are here http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/bls.pdf

Z

[Sgt Sim]

Did Swedish Red Cross First Aid and CPR in 1998 and 1999, TCCC (Tactical Combat Casualty Care) with the Swedish Armed Forces in 2000 (about 50- 80 hours) and 2001, Supplemental CPR in 2004 with the Swedish Cardiological Society, Supplemental First Aid and CPR in 2005 when I took my Industrial Fire Fighter license and have been teatching conscripst, Home Guard personell and Army Cadets in basic TCCC between 2000 and 2005.
I am just woundering one thing: Here in the UK it seems that your First Aid trainings comes with a "Best- before" date, wheather the Swedish ones does not and is concidered to last for life if you are a civilian (basically it is up to your own discression if you think that you cand od it when you need), any one knows whyr the UK issued ones has an expirie date and the swedish ones does not? Is it a legal thing here?

[Labrador]

First Aid at Sea, although it's since run out!
:AR15firin :sad6:

[janiepopps]

I did the appointed person course yesterday (I have done several in the past, the last one being about 3-4 years ago) and a fair amount has changed.

I'm ashamed to say that I didnt remember very much at all and would urge anyone that is thinking about doing it to get signed up ASAP.

j

[Mikey P]

Military and combat first aid.

Have used both in military and civvy situations. Civvy situation was a colleague with me on a training ride. Front wheel went side from under him and he landed square on his chin. Went unconscious for short period. Did all the shock/recovery stuff and - luckily - he was a doctor specialising in emrgency medicine so when he became conscious, he started diagnosing himself:


'Ib schpilt me soff pallet'

'What?'

'Ib schpilt me soff pallet!'

'Eh?'

'I shed, Ib schpilt me soff pallet, oo deff bashted!'

'Ohhhhhhh, you've split your soft palate!'

I was really pleased that all the training kicks in automatically. Everyone should do some - where I live in Germany, you have to do the equivalent of a basic first aid course before you can start learning to drive.

[Matt Weir]

I've just got work to book me onto a 4 day course in June :D to re-certify.

Whilst I was at it I went for the Fire Marshals course at the end of this month again to re-certify but it is all about putting fire out rather than starting it :rolleyes: :lmao:

[Steve27752]

First Aider at Work (FAAW) certificate holder and ballistic First Aider. + I have just added De Fib.
Steve :)

[Dances with Wolves]

I used to have AED, fractures 2, medical gases, and ambulance attendant level 1, but sadly they have all run out.

But I am still First Aid Qualified.

Wolves. :)

[Steve27752]

I am doing a Defib course this week. It is something that I have wanted to do for ages!
Steve :)

[gunnix]

I've got a first aid certificate on ship school, it was part of the course.

[crazydave]

I reckon any training whether expired or not is better than nothing, I've been out the army for ages but still use and remember training and experiences on a weekly basis but I did finish my final 3 as a battalion and hospital medic.

anyone who did the old style one week first aid at work courses covering penetrating trauma and traumatic amputations would be disgusted at the current one day version which relies on ambulances and mobile phones far too much so its no wonder when people are ringing mountain rescue when they have a blister or wonder why they collapse on the london marathon when they'd been on the beers the night before.

I had an incident the other month where a lad collapsed at work evrybody stood around till somebody called me over to have a look. Half a dozen people then congradulated me on putting in the recovery position, checking airways etc... to which my response was well if you knew what I was doing why did I have to come over here and do it for you?

something else I feel should be taught at schools on a curricular basis :)

[falling rain]

I've actually got 2 certificates one from The red cross and One from Lifesigns.
My Red cross cert runs out this month and I''m off to do a refresher within the next few weeks - Work paid for mine :D

[pag_3833]

Trained but the certificate has run out, this threads reminded me of this so ill have to sort that asap

[william#]

use to teach first aid .
so can recall most of it , u need to grasp understanding of what yu are doing .
the ongoing changing of techniques to improve things based on so caled research i am very cynical about as there have been times when an old technque has changed then a few years later brought back in .
it began to seem to me a cynical way of selling new sets of books and courses and keeping the power of certification in the hands of the course providers .
also different providers can teach different techniques whic also confuses the matter esspecially if you are working with a team of people which often you are if you find yourself dealing with an incident and often you may not know the people you are working with what there school of thought is how much they really understood and grasped when trained and all that mixed up with different types of personalitys.
i have known a friend of mine years ago (beach lifeguard very well trained and competent) tell an interfering nurse to fcuk off .
ive seen people hit hard by cars who are clearly breathing and semi concious rolled into recovery positions with no real reason to do so (emergency service very near where this happend - and with no protection of spine or neck - instigated by the more forcefull of personalitys .
as a general rule and i know its cynical these days i will not get involved in ant rescue unless i really have to or i am with a team i know and we know the same stuff and on same page

[rik_uk3]

Keep the training simple and practise what you learn at home

DO THE TRAINING

Its better to underestimate your skills and knowledge, rather than be over confident and perhaps harm you or others

DO THE TRAINING

[litefoot]

work pays for my course although i have probably used it more outside of work.it is worth getting trained for the confidence you will gain from it,a lot of people tend to step away when someone gets hurt although may want to help.with a course under your belt you will be able to cope with you own and other peoples first aid dramas.
litefoot.:)

[woodstock]

As I work as private health care provider I have to pay for my own I use the British red cross which fills my needs.and is not to costly

[clcuckow]

Was in St. Johns Ambulance man and boy(joined on my 9th birthday which at the time, and pre badgers was the earliest I could) but I moved for work and have not joined the local brigade and have let my certification expire.

[OzaawaaMigiziNini]

1) Basic Emergency First Aid

2) CPR

3) Basic First Aid

4) Basic Wilderness First Aid

I'll be going for my advanced Wilderness First Aid and First Responder in the next couple of years.

[bartjen 2]

i am a male nurse, worked 10 years at an ER in belgium as a help-male nurse first, was serveral years a para medic and 7 years in theRed Cross as a first aid helper:35:

[Tabber]

Currently sitting my final medical exams, which is why I've logged in here for the first time in ages, I'm doing my best to avoid revision! :rolleyes: I've done BLS/ILS and elements of ALS as part of my course and also completed a basic field trauma course with the army.

Couldn't agree more regarding CPR/defib. CPR isn't terribly effective, less so if the person is not up to speed or trained on the current guidelines (they haven't been changed on a whim as they seem to be, there is some sound physiological reasoning behind it!). Getting them to a portable defib/AED is paramount (as a minimum) but getting them to a full A&E is the best option. It is definitely worth getting trained on, but I would pay attention to rescue procedures and extraction techniques if you are going to be in the wild. No use jumping up and down on someone's chest if you can't get higher levels of care to you ASAP, or you to them.

[combatblade1]

i am currently basic first aid first aid at work, public order first aid oxygen therapy and defib trained. All these are required for my job and i get refreshed every year.

[Tourist]

Qualified as a Royal Life Saving Society Teacher years back.

St Johns First Aid Certificate - out of date.

Several battle field firt aid courses in the Army - out of date.

BLS and Heart Start with the Special Constabulary - just about in date.

BLS / CPR / defib / oxygen therapy as a student nurse last year - still in date.

Planning on doing the St Johns Activity First Aid, 2 day course excellent value for money. Then I am going on the REC Level 4 and Level 5 in Bracknell. My plan - for no particular reason - is to qualify as a Wilderness Emergency Medical Technician (W)EMT.

[Steve27752]

First Aider at Work (FAAW) and Defib trained.
Steve :)

[wilkig]

I would recommend the REC course, Rescue and Emergency Care. Its practical First Aid for outdoor situations, I am an Explorer Scout leader, canoeist, walker and climber. This course covers practical solutions to problems where you are without the luxury of medical expertise a few minutes away. My First Aid kit has pads and 'Gaffa' tape as the its main components.

[Smith]

Ive got no first aid at all.
I feel that i should though, always good to know what to do just incase.
Any one know of good first aid courses?

[Zammo]

My fiancé recently did a First Aid course and one of the people who was on it was ex-SAS. He told a story of how when he was in the forces they were doing a First Aid course and he was given a dog to look after. One day he was told to bring the dog in and the instructor walked up to it and shot it, he then turned to him and said "Use the skills you've learnt to save it!".

Not sure whether it's BS though?

[Sleepy Weasel]

Did the MR Cas Care course back in January(try doing surveys outside when you can't feel your fingertips!) as I'm a member of the local Search and Rescue Team, and passed!, got a certificate an everythin. Apparently I'm qualified to give morphine IM(had to practice on each other, ouch) Funny thing is I'm not allowed to put a plaster on anyone at work, and we have another guy who is in ticket with a First Aid at Work Certificate, and he's not allowed to put a plaster on anyone at work either. We do have an 'Appointed Person' with no training, though he goes a bit faint at the sight of blood.....
Funny old world innit.

[sploing]

i am currently basic first aid first aid at work, public order first aid oxygen therapy and defib trained. All these are required for my job and i get refreshed every year.

Public order first aid? Sounds interesting. I'm first aid trained and public order trained but can't for the life of me think how I could combine the two.

[sploing]

I suppose you could first aid those you've imposed your public order on. Something along the lines of WHACK! ok, breathing - fine, circulation -good......

[Carcajou Garou]

I have attended multiple accidents in the past and was able to render help..then I took first aid trainning on a yearly basis and from then on never used it once...go figure. If I would have taken the course sooner, I wonder, how many people wouldn't have suffered from an accident.

[commandocal]

No official training but i know alot of basics rest is common sense :) I am going to do a proper course soon though i reckon

[ganstey]

Currently Appointed Persons trained, but have been FAW in the past. Only had to use my training once at work, and that was when a colleague had a panic attack.

When I did my FAW course about 8 years ago, we had a long discussion over removing crash helmets as one of the other students was a motorcycle instructor. I can't remember the details of the procedure, but essentially we were told that unless we were sure the casualty had stopped breathing to leave the helmet well alone.

I've had to use my training at a number of RTAs, although luckily none of them have been serious from an injury point of view despite the damage to the vehicles.

Now I'm doing more bushcraft work (and more chainsaw work) perhaps I ought to think about upping my training a bit :rolleyes:

G

[Nichola]

I trained in first aid when i did my nursing degree, not got a certificate but hopefully the qualification won't ever run out!!! (Do CPR updates etc every year at work).
Has anyone seen the wilderness medical trainning course run in the lake district over a week. I'm really tempted but i guesss i'm just sad that way!!!! lol

[Nichola]

I did my first aid training when i did my nursing degree, no certificate but hopefully the qualification won't run out!! (We have to do yearly CPR etc at work).
Has anyone seen the wilderness medical training programme run in the lake district? It runs over a week and i'm really tempted to do it (i guess i'm just sad that way)!!! lol

[mick miller]

My first-aid certs lapsed many years back, at the time I was working in the oil & gas industry and was part of the emergency response team being part of the regular crew, I was also trained in fire fighting and as part of the heli crew, although it all seems so long ago I still remember much of the training.

Fortunately I only had to use my training on two occasions. Now I'm working as a freelance graphic designer (a bit of a career change I'll grant you) I don't tend to need it that much unless the pencil sharpener is really sharp!http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

[UKHaiku]

First Aid at Work training for me - never needed to use it.. *touch wood*

[Kepis]

Completed my first aid training with Forest Knights just under two weeks ago, very comprehensive course & well run, recommend it to anyone who is thinking of getting themselves trained up.

[spamel]

I have the skills i learnt in the forces, so if anybody suddenly suffers from a phosphour burn or radiation sickness, hopefully I'll be able to sort you out!

:rolleyes:

[JohnL]

I have RLSS pool lifegaurd & RYA (royal yachting association) first aid.

want to do something more mountain/wilderness based sometime though.

[wanderinstar]

I would love to get First Aid Training. Just one problem. It is so bl**dy expensive. I cant afford it. Does anyone know what St Johns charge?

[Rob]

I
Has anyone seen the wilderness medical training programme run in the lake district? It runs over a week and i'm really tempted to do it (i guess i'm just sad that way)!!! lol

I did it a few years back and it is a superb course. I wrote a bit of a review of the course here (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/reviews/courses/wilderness-medical-training.html).

[UKHaiku]

I would love to get First Aid Training. Just one problem. It is so bl**dy expensive. I cant afford it. Does anyone know what St Johns charge?

I'd suggest giving them a ring? Contact details for West Yorkshire are here:
http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/about-us/st-john-ambulance-in-your-area/counties/south--west-yorkshire.aspx

[Zammo]

I've just been reading my theory book on learning how to drive and there is a section on first aid in it. Alot of the questions are asking how you should stabilze a person after a car crash. Now from what I recollect unless you have some First Aid training you shouldn't be touching them, as basically if you do anything wrong you could be liable for their death. Is this the case?

[Tonedef]

First aid training in the army, but that was a few years ago.

[BOD]

I've just been reading my theory book on learning how to drive and there is a section on first aid in it. Alot of the questions are asking how you should stabilze a person after a car crash. Now from what I recollect unless you have some First Aid training you shouldn't be touching them, as basically if you do anything wrong you could be liable for their death. Is this the case?

This has been thrashed out in several posts. If there is a reason - road hazard, fuel tank leaking, needs CPR, life threatening injuries etc.- get them out

Ask them if they want help. "yes" is a consent. If they are not able to answer and the situation seems to demand it that is an "implied consent".

Otherwise if you are not trained and don't feel up to it, just keep talking to them or monitoring breathing and pulse. Call for help. Someone will be along soon.

Neither be an over zealous Samaritan nor reluctant bystander.

[maddave]

Trained but certificate is now out of date.....Must do something about that

[xavierdoc]

Like Doc, I have medical and surgical degrees and ATLS training. Interestingly, the nature of my work (Orthopaedic and Trauma surgery) doesn't necessarily equip me to administer basic first aid in the field, but I think I cope ;)

I've been "first bike on scene" at a few messy RTAs and other pre-hospital mis-haps. The crucial thing I became aware of was that without kit, I can take basic measures to save life but not the more advanced techniques I am capable of in a theatre or A&E Resus.

Problem is, how much kit do you carry -enough to match your skills-set? Enough to maintain an airway? Chest drain?

As with bushcraft, what you carry in your head remains the most important thing. Even small and simple measures can save life. I would urge everyone to get some training in basic life support. At the very least, it will give you a systematic approach to a scary and daunting situation.

Here's hoping none of you needs a first-aider...

[fast but dim]

f a @ work and trauma care through fire service. used at work, but only a couple of times per year ( but i try not to be first aider) and out (once, nasty rta outside house).

one piece of advice to everyone, open that airway.anything else is a bonus.Forget splints and triangular bandages, airway then maybe cpr, get professional assistance asap.

[kspar]

just got my WFR cert. I'll be taking the WEMT course this summer I think.

[SimonM]

First Aid is a required qualification for our school as we use Restrictive Physical Intervention techniques and have to ensure the H & S of the young person involved!

It is also a qualifying qualification for my Expedition Leader Award & Archery Leader qualifications.

I have FAW and am also a Community First Responder, trained and equipped with Automatic External Defibrilator and Oxygen as well as all the usual FAK contents.

Simon

[irishlostboy]

i had my REC certs for when i was an instructor, but expired now. got to use it to scrape someone off the base of a cliff a few years ago. (not the cert, the skills learned. and some wound dressings)

[rivermom]

One of the most important things needed in emergencies is calm. Training in first aid can give you the confidence to stay calm and deal with the problems. Most of it is plain good sense; make sure air is getting in and blood is not getting out!
But I really do think that first aid should be taught from day one at school, as should bushcraft. I guess that is one of the reasons I am a retired teacher, not an active teacher.

[SimonM]

One of the most important things needed in emergencies is calm. Training in first aid can give you the confidence to stay calm and deal with the problems. Most of it is plain good sense; make sure air is getting in and blood is not getting out!
But I really do think that first aid should be taught from day one at school, as should bushcraft. I guess that is one of the reasons I am a retired teacher, not an active teacher.

I agree on both counts. No matter what the situation or seriousness of the casualty I always introduce myself in the same way "Hello, I'm Simon and I'm a First Aider (or more lately - First Responder with the Ambulance Service) and you'r going to be ok".

This has the effect of calming people down and giving them enough confidence in your abilities to let you do your stuff without interrupting.

On the second count - I teach ASDAN Bronze Award as one of mysubjects (Life skills really). One of the topics is emergency procedures, so I have taken this to the next level and taught basic first aid. The pupils have generally taken it well - especially if I set the scene with a video of someone hurting themselves in a grand way from You Tube!

Simon

[ManOtheWoods]

15:2, but that was last year.

Hi there sorry to cause confusion but the actual ratio for adults is 30 chest compressions to 2 breaths and there is no longer 2 rescue breaths at the begining of resus.
http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/gl5algos.htm
I'm currently in my second year of nurse training and this is our most recent guidelines. This should be accurate as if anyone is likely to be sued for doing it wrong its going to be the healthcare profession. The reasoning behind the 30 compressions is that pessure in the circulatory system is only just about reached at 15 compressions and then its stopped when the 2 breaths are given. Therefore it was decided that 30 compressions would actually give more effective oxygenation to the tissues. The 2 rescue breaths were taken out because it was discovered that a lot of oxygen remains in the blood and it is more important to get this residual circulating than to try and oxygneate it more.
Any queries please ask.

[firecrest]

Did St johns a few weeks ago, due to my line of carework Im legally required to do so.
The trouble with first aid is that a lot of the things we do do more harm than good by intervening to much.
When the body goes into shock, the blood pressure drops, the veins slacken and blood pools, this is to allow clots to form and then we come along with intraveneous fluid and blow the new clots wide open. When doctors went on strike in Israel for 1 day, the death rate dropped 80% ! Of course that will involve a lot of different factors, but I suppose my point is that first aid has to be updated on a regular basis. The St Johns course told me they almost decided to omit mouth to mouth from resusitation entirely but felt it was to radical a move. The reason, they said is that the (british medical journal I think?) believe that chest compressions in no way at all are compressing the heart, its to deep in the chest, and what the compressions are actually doing are pushing blood and air in and out of the lungs, thus pumping the heart by proxy. The didnt cut the breathing out though, they reduced it to 2 or 3 breaths per 30 compressions. (Infact I cant even remember and I just completed the damn thing!)

[canadianwildman]

yeah I got first aid training

[rik_uk3]

Hi there sorry to cause confusion but the actual ratio for adults is 30 chest compressions to 2 breaths and there is no longer 2 rescue breaths at the begining of resus.
http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/gl5algos.htm
I'm currently in my second year of nurse training and this is our most recent guidelines. This should be accurate as if anyone is likely to be sued for doing it wrong its going to be the healthcare profession. The reasoning behind the 30 compressions is that pessure in the circulatory system is only just about reached at 15 compressions and then its stopped when the 2 breaths are given. Therefore it was decided that 30 compressions would actually give more effective oxygenation to the tissues. The 2 rescue breaths were taken out because it was discovered that a lot of oxygen remains in the blood and it is more important to get this residual circulating than to try and oxygneate it more.
Any queries please ask.

Good to see a student Nurse here, and good luck with your training.

The whole CPR set changes on a regular basis, compression to breathing ratios maybe a thing of the past.

Clinical lead research in the states (some areas) now says NO rescue breaths at all, just fast comps at about 100 per minute until the paramedics / defib is there, for several minutes.

Practise your first aid at home, keep up your skills, tape up the wife (first aid techniques here please) etc, it really helps. If and when you do get to try out the theory, its a whole new world and it does certainly raise your own BP :)

[tuxdad]

Had my first aid training last summer .. I'm looking at possibly taking the next step and get certified as a first responder... After that, will see if wanna try for EMT basics ..

[ManOtheWoods]

Good to see a student Nurse here, and good luck with your training.

The whole CPR set changes on a regular basis, compression to breathing ratios maybe a thing of the past.

Clinical lead research in the states (some areas) now says NO rescue breaths at all, just fast comps at about 100 per minute until the paramedics / defib is there, for several minutes.

Practise your first aid at home, keep up your skills, tape up the wife (first aid techniques here please) etc, it really helps. If and when you do get to try out the theory, its a whole new world and it does certainly raise your own BP :)

Many thanks for the kind words I need it at the moment. Should anyone have any interesting queries I am just about to satrt a placement on A&E so I could ask these guys.

[stovie]

My own opinion is thatanyone outside should have the basic skills to "preserve" life...

Just tonite I set my scouts a test of fortitude and ingenuity...broken leg, canvas and poles, and 1/2 mile from casualty, and no one to call...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/stovie/DSCF6806copy.jpg

[the interceptor boy]

My certificate is out of date now, but i think in my humlbe opinion everyone venture in the wild should at least know about how to administer CPR, and looking for a PULSE.

[ANDYRAF]

Did mine whilst in the services these are done annually and it's driven home to you until it's second nature, also did the Canadian forces training course much more intensive and included skiing etc.

[BOD]

... The reason, they said is that the (british medical journal I think?) believe that chest compressions in no way at all are compressing the heart, its to deep in the chest, and what the compressions are actually doing are pushing blood and air in and out of the lungs, thus pumping the heart by proxy. ...)



The second time I gave CPR was interesting and unusual.

While I was giving CPR to a yachtsman, the ambulance crew arrived and attached the defibrilator with ECG.

When I backed off they gave the first shock. On the second shock, there was a big flash and the debfib was kaput!

However the ECG was still working and displaying the fibrillation

As I resumed compressions, the ECG display recorded each compression with a spike in the otherwise fibrillating wave. Similar to that recorded by a normal heart.

The paramedic felt a firm pulse in the carotid artery.

So did the surgeon who was monitoring the groin pulse.

Until that day, I always felt like that compressions were a waste of time if no result was achieved in a few minutes.

If you do it right, you become that persons heart.

Never give up till you are relieved especially on children.

[GreenmanBushcraft]

Yes, and I have to be these days. The 'recommendations' of what to do seem to change on a weekly basis though!

Kris

[John Fenna]

The second time I gave CPR was interesting and unusual.

While I was giving CPR to a yachtsman, the ambulance crew arrived and attached the defibrilator with ECG.

When I backed off they gave the first shock. On the second shock, there was a big flash and the debfib was kaput!

However the ECG was still working and displaying the fibrillation

As I resumed compressions, the ECG display recorded each compression with a spike in the otherwise fibrillating wave. Similar to that recorded by a normal heart.

The paramedic felt a firm pulse in the carotid artery.

So did the surgeon who was monitoring the groin pulse.

Until that day, I always felt like that compressions were a waste of time if no result was achieved in a few minutes.

If you do it right, you become that persons heart.

Never give up till you are relieved especially on children.

Compressions work!
I got afriend back from no output to giving a pulse. Unfortunately he arrested again in the ambulance and was shocked back to output againand with his history of heart probs/surgery there was too much injury and he only survived a few more days.

[Mungo]

My certificate ran out years ago - I had to take it when I worked at a custody center. For Christmas I got a great book on outdoor medicine - forget the name of it right now, but reading through it has brought back some of the training.

[nataryn]

Just after I did my first first aid course my friend fell off a cliff skiing (I was behind her) she broke her arm in 2 places and had concussion... it's amazing how useless everything I learnt was in god-knows-how-cold-it-was temperatures. All I had to do was carry her to the nearest piste and get someone to fetch a 'blood wagon'. Fun times.

[Pantalaimon]

Because I volunteer at our local youthcentre here in the Netherlands I got a BHV-course. On a BHV-course you learn first aid and fire-prevention. With an BHV-certificate someone is able to act if something happens before the profs come(and that should be in about 15 minutes, after calling 112). But in the wilderness it's mostly useless I think. And even without BHV, I know there are enough people, mostly older than me, that know much more and don't have BHV/first aid. Just because they have more (life)experience. For example: I really don't know when a small wound must be sutured or not.

A 'wilderness first aid'course or something like that should be interesting. I once saw a course like that and it was very expensive and in Canada. No option.

But mostly its about good thinking what to do and improvising.

[pibbleb]

I have a current expedition first aid certificate and I'm a newly qualified first responder trained by South East Ambulance Service, of which I plan to do a couple of add on courses they run, but the basic training covers using defib, 100% oxygen, airway management and so on.

I'm currently saving, very slowly, to do an ExMed type expediction Medics course. You can't know enough in my mind.

Pib

[He' s left the building]

I'm currently saving, very slowly, to do an ExMed type expediction Medics course. You can't know enough in my mind.

Very useful for exped/overseas stuff, also check out Prometheus Medical for courses, I have no link with either course provider but I know some of the staff and they certainly know their stuff.

[Pantalaimon]

Does anyone knows if there are any 'wilderness first aid' courses in Europe/Netherlands?
I know Taku Adventures gives one. 7 days and 550 euro. But thats in Canada. A bit war away and thus expensive.

[Pantalaimon]

whoops, dubble post.
The site is very slow sometimes,..

[pibbleb]

Boops thanks for the heads up I'll give them a look. Whilst I'm obviously interested in this kind of thing, I also saw it as a way of paying my way on expeds and the likes and getting in with that kind of circle of people.

Not sure how realistic that is but it's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. ;)

Pib:cool:

[Bushcraftsman]

I think anybody going on a trip alone or with friends should have atleast a rough idea of some first aid otherwise your pretty much done for if your in the middle of nowhere and something goes wrong!

[The Bear]

Full first aid certificate.
One of the designated first aiders on Hull Docks.
CPR etc.

[Dytiscus]

my certificates are out of date St johns and London Underground Limited
but i get kept on my toes by my mother who's been a nurse and outdoors type since before i was born

[phaserrifle]

I currently hold a basic maintanience of life certificate that I did at school. this taught me how to recusitate someone, and a few bits about dealing with heart attacks, and some other injuries. however I never recieved the actual peice of paper that says I passed. past that i have no proper qualifications (and I don't realy count that one)

[headrox_inc]

We had to learn the ryme for nelly the elephant for the chest compressions, was very funny but well anyoying.

"No more badger quotes."

[Methusela]

just a bog standard appointed persons here, 1 day rollercoaster ride of fun, still working on my boss to put me in for the full shebang... until then i live safe in the knowledge that i can bandage a hand and bring a rubber doll back from the brink of death :)

[VIRULENT SALAMANDER]

Trained but the certificate has run out on a St. John's life save course.
when i win the lotto will pay the RC a vist

[swampy99]

Im a paramedic so think I am current Im on the HPC list

[Sniper]

I'm a first aider for the British Red Cross have been for bout12yrs now also Moving & Handling to casualty handling level 2, Defib trained, Resusitation trained and Trauma Management plus I am an emergency response volunteer I also train others in all of these subjects plus training our ambulance drivers. Lastly I train our first aid trainers in order for them to train others in first aid.
So like our paramedic and doctor friends I too would say I'm trained. As for experience I have done several tours in N Ireland in the 70s during the hieght of the troubles plus the Falklands campaign in 82 so I've stuck a few plasters on missing bits and see through bits.

[combatbushcraft]

did lots of training in the army,and have a current certificate,
got called out a work last week,and on the way out of the shop,heard a lot of shouting,yes you guessed it,drink fueled agression,?!!!!!!!!!
ended up giving first aid to a guy who has got a fractured skull,blood clots on the brain,
has had every bone in his face broken,is deaf in one ear,has a numb left side of face and was bleeding from the ears for nearly a week,
think ive done enough refresher training for a while,
thank god i had a small med kit with me and improvised using carrier bags,and a fluffy towel from me shop,

cheers
diamond

[testokick]

Hello to you all. I'm new in this comunity and try to learn as much as is humanly posible. Please excuseme if my english is not so good.
I work as a fitness trainer, beeing actualy a nurse. I love camping and all native skills that ever served anyone, no matter the location on Earth. I'm also a mechanic of military gear(i don't know what is the name of that job).
That's all for now...

[Sniper]

Just a note .....never remove a crash helmet unless specifically trained to
CPR is now 30 : 2 and rescue breaths no longer have to be efficient it is enough just to attempt.
CPR very very rarely works in all but babies however you are keeping the body and brain fed with oxygen until a defib unit arrives, sadly if that fails you also keep the possibility of transplant organs free of damage, not a nice thought but fact nevertheless so you could be saving someones life other than the immediate casualty. Probably the most effective and useful skill is the recovery position ...it probably saves the most lives and is simple to learn.
Red Cross public courses in save a life....... ....2 hours long...........cost about £15........ not a plug, just to show it need not be expensive we also run courses for youth organisations quite often free of charge....in return you can do a sponsored walk or a bag pack at the local supermarket. First aid is to me a life skill and something everyone should learn!

[rik_uk3]

Just a note .....never remove a crash helmet unless specifically trained to
CPR is now 30 : 2 and rescue breaths no longer have to be efficient it is enough just to attempt.
CPR very very rarely works in all but babies however you are keeping the body and brain fed with oxygen until a defib unit arrives, sadly if that fails you also keep the possibility of transplant organs free of damage, not a nice thought but fact nevertheless so you could be saving someones life other than the immediate casualty. Probably the most effective and useful skill is the recovery position ...it probably saves the most lives and is simple to learn.
Red Cross public courses in save a life....... ....2 hours long...........cost about £15........ not a plug, just to show it need not be expensive we also run courses for youth organisations quite often free of charge....in return you can do a sponsored walk or a bag pack at the local supermarket. First aid is to me a life skill and something everyone should learn!

New thinking on CPR if the patient is within paramedic distance (a few mins to arrival) is no breath, just compression, changes all the time:confused:

[Sniper]

Not aware of that Richard where is the info from.

Certainly no changes have come out I'm aware of and we are usually the first in getting any updates or changes to current practices and I hav'nt heard of this being brought in although I know it's been considered for quite some time but not rolled out. I would be very wary of this until it comes out in black & white bearing in mind we write the book in conjunction with NHS thinktank, St Andrews, and St John's. If it's not out officially I would ignore it rather than open myself to litigation by the no win no fee brigade!

[rik_uk3]

Double post sorry

[rik_uk3]

Not aware of that Richard where is the info from.

Certainly no changes have come out I'm aware of and we are usually the first in getting any updates or changes to current practices and I hav'nt heard of this being brought in although I know it's been considered for quite some time but not rolled out. I would be very wary of this until it comes out in black & white bearing in mind we write the book in conjunction with NHS thinktank, St Andrews, and St John's. If it's not out officially I would ignore it rather than open myself to litigation by the no win no fee brigade!

It was from an American research paper I read, by all accounts this practise is going on with some of the paramedics over there (I'll try and find the link), in our Trust we still use 30:2 as well. CPR protocol changes every now and then, pain in the ass really. I've been actively involved in CPR situations a good few times, sad to say it rarely works:(

Interesting that you mentioned keeping organs going, some years ago, there was a very bad RTA near us, four or five died, but within 24 hours one of our patients received a new kidney (I was working dialysis back then), one fresh kidney and a good tissue match gave happiness to one person at least.

I'm going to shout now


I HOPE ALL YOU PEOPLE CARRY A DONOR CARD AND HAVE REGISTERED YOUR WISHES ONLINE

[crazydave]

dont forget that if you are asked for a certain pill then you are covered but if you give one out then its prescription and someone will have a go should they react to it, another usefull escape it so sell them some headache pills again to avoid the charge of prescribing. litigation wise the best words for a first aid situation are 'I am not a doctor, do you still wish me to proceed' once they say yes you can chop their legs off and sew wooden ones on :)

get a witness though...

also there is no legal obligation to render aid especially cpr.as officially once you start you cant stop untill told to by a doctor unless you hand over to another person.

the cpr guidelines are continuously changing - I've read versions where they say just breathe and others which say just compress most from the states who invented triage and who are still 20 odd years ahead of us in both civvy and military casualty treatments.

[rik_uk3]

dont forget that if you are asked for a certain pill then you are covered but if you give one out then its prescription and someone will have a go should they react to it, another usefull escape it so sell them some headache pills again to avoid the charge of prescribing. litigation wise the best words for a first aid situation are 'I am not a doctor, do you still wish me to proceed' once they say yes you can chop their legs off and sew wooden ones on :)

get a witness though...

also there is no legal obligation to render aid especially cpr.as officially once you start you cant stop untill told to by a doctor unless you hand over to another person.

the cpr guidelines are continuously changing - I've read versions where they say just breathe and others which say just compress most from the states who invented triage and who are still 20 odd years ahead of us in both civvy and military casualty treatments.

Personally Dave, I won't give any medication to anyone unless I know them very well, not even aspirin to be honest, not worth the risk, and as it takes a while to hit the system I'd rather wait for the paramedics to arrive and let them do their bit. Its worth asking regular camping friends if they have any problems with over the counter pain killers and be certain they are clear with their answers.

I would think it certain that 90% + here camp in the UK, so keep your first aid simple, and call for help.

[crazydave]

I used to get people all the time asking for painkillers for headaches so took to charging 10p a go - different in the army when we used to get stroppy hungover sergeants demanding something for their heads so we gave them brufen and told them to suck them :)

most stuff doeasn't need a paramedic or a trip to the hospital, most things can wait.

just like they could wait 20 years ago before the bloody mobile phone. :)

[rik_uk3]

I used to get people all the time asking for painkillers for headaches so took to charging 10p a go - different in the army when we used to get stroppy hungover sergeants demanding something for their heads so we gave them brufen and told them to suck them :)

most stuff doeasn't need a paramedic or a trip to the hospital, most things can wait.

just like they could wait 20 years ago before the bloody mobile phone. :)

Totaly agree Dave, especially mobile phones. I remember walking into work one day, the ward manager said, "I tried to get hold of you yesterday, no reply to your phone or your mobile" She was really angry about it. I explained that on my days off the wife and I (she's also a Nurse) unplug the phone and turn off our mobiles, the ward manager could not understand why we would do that:banghead: To be honest, unless the wife is Senior Nurse on call, we unplug the house phone comes 22.00, this stops my children's mates ringing at midnight for a chat:cussing:

[listenclear]

Got a first aid at work certificate and a degree in traditional chinese acupuncture - which may or may not be useful in the outdoors lol

[Matt_M]

I completed basic first aid training when i used to scuba dive, altho this has expired now officially, but i still know the basics.

[hog]

I've got a first aid at work cert and also am a first aider for the RNLI as I am a crew member, the RNLI course covers things that will not be found in a FAW cert such as oxygen, entenox, breathing aids etc.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Forces medic (aeromedical evacuation), then civ flight paramedic, now just have a St John cert. Also trained in major incident management.

I worked as a medic for an NGO in the Balkans during the unpleasantness there, which was an interesting experience. There were four of us, and we were the only source of medical assistance for our staff (and those from other organisations who hadn't made any proper arrangements), so we had to know our stuff.

[crwydryny]

I currently have a certificate in first aid (which has about a year left) as well as training in alternitive medician (herbalism, traditional medician and chinese herbalism leadin a few friends to call me the village witchdoctor lol)

[brianP]

I currently instruct all levels of First Aid, with a bent toward remote area and wilderness. Paramedic x 18 years, tactical medic, and run medical coverage for outdoor events.

I am diligently working on a book right now that will go by "Mud Medicine and Ditch Doctoring"

Currently offer instruction over here through Remote Areas (http://www.raems.com)

[mortalmerlin]

I did two diving first aid and rescue courses. Not a great deal of use to Bushcraft though.

[Dana Hawkeye]

Though I am currently a final year nursing student (ex-HCA of 8 years) with 16 weeks to go till qualifying, I have no first-aid certificate, only the internal NHS CPR/Trauma course. About to do the ALERT course in December.

It always amuses me when people ask, that Nurses and Doctors are NOT actually trained in First-Aid as part of their pre-registration coursework.

I declined the poll, as though I am not OFFICIALLY first-aid trained, I do use first-aid skills on an almost daily basis within the remit of the NHS.

[rik_uk3]

Though I am currently a final year nursing student (ex-HCA of 8 years) with 16 weeks to go till qualifying, I have no first-aid certificate, only the internal NHS CPR/Trauma course. About to do the ALERT course in December.

It always amuses me when people ask, that Nurses and Doctors are NOT actually trained in First-Aid as part of their pre-registration coursework.

I declined the poll, as though I am not OFFICIALLY first-aid trained, I do use first-aid skills on an almost daily basis within the remit of the NHS.

Good luck with your training, and the ALERT course is worth a day of your time, though not First Aid helpful to be honest unless you carry O2 etc with you :) When you qualify though, it would be well worth doing a good First Aid Course, your Degree won't make you a good first aider when out and about to be honest. I went into nursing as a very mature student, trust me when I say that First Aid in the field is many miles away from a ward based scenario.

When your out camping with your chums, it may be that you won't have any backup to speak of, nobody to grab dressings, call a doctor to help who will be there in minutes etc; its a whole new world in the open.

What are you doing your dissertation on ?

[prosperer _dans_ la_ fore]

i got first aid at work and lifesupport 3 with the rlss.

[Lodian]

I am have done it through cadets , handy to have. Looks good on a cv.

Would like to do one of the wilderness courses though.

Lodian

[Dana Hawkeye]

Rik_uk3

I am doing the Diploma not the Degree pre-reg course, so I dont do a dissertation. My course is through The Open University. I know that Nursing is different from first-aid par se, but is still useful in other areas of bush medical scenarios. Though we dont cover first-aid in the general course sense, we do cover a lot of the same ground in a round-about-way. I am ex-forces so have done the 'basic' compulsory first-aid course in the past.

I intend to do a wilderness medicine course as well as the Tropical Nursing course post-reg in the next couple of years.

Thanks for the good luck :)

Dana

[spiritofold]

I should have more firstaid knowhow, im really lacking.

[Rothley Bill]

Just got back from renewing mine tonight.

[CAL]

I've two first aid qualifications and teach both of them but I can only use them on BSAC divers even though 95% of the stuff on the course is not specifically diving related.

[rik_uk3]

Rik_uk3

I am doing the Diploma not the Degree pre-reg course, so I dont do a dissertation. My course is through The Open University. I know that Nursing is different from first-aid par se, but is still useful in other areas of bush medical scenarios. Though we dont cover first-aid in the general course sense, we do cover a lot of the same ground in a round-about-way. I am ex-forces so have done the 'basic' compulsory first-aid course in the past.

I intend to do a wilderness medicine course as well as the Tropical Nursing course post-reg in the next couple of years.

Thanks for the good luck :)

Dana

I've had a look at the OU course, marvellous stuff. In Wales its a Degree only route into Nursing which is crazy. My daughter had a baby this year, so needs to go back in March to finish off her degree in Mental Health Nursing. Her mom, SHMBO, is a senior mental health nurse (Lead Nurse in Therapeutic Care) for the local Trust, keep at it Dana, you will be rewarded in the future for your efforts

[Dana Hawkeye]

Thanks Rik_uk3

Nearly there now, just a few weeks (16 wks) and a couple of assignments to go. I will be glad when this course is done and dusted to be honest. I am hoping to go into Surgical Nursing or possibly Community Nursing. I will have to wait and see where the jobs are in the new year.

regards
Dana

[DKW]

Nice thread. And i agree: you are never fully trained.

In Denmark we haven't got all those bents in first aid training. Most of it is the same principles, just a different environment. (well. We do have specialists courses, but then we are mainly talking pro's)

I have trained first aid since i was a cub scout. Got the first "proper" course in the army, and have been maintaining that ever since. I also train people in first aid for military aswell as civvy use. (basically the same, with very few dont's added)

Never done learning though. Just 2 years back they changed the entire CPR and respiratory routine. Now you cannot perform mouth-to mouth (or mouth-to-nose) without CPR. Those two go hand in hand.

Actually it was based upon a british survey done at some hospital. They had a couple people lying on operating-tables, all covered up apart from the primary places where you might feel for a pulse.
Then they brought in a lot of people one by one, and told them to take the pulse of the subjects, note their findings down, and move on to the next subject.
Amongst the people where medics (civvy and army), nurses, docs and normal people.

Allmost all of the people had noted very specific data of pulsefrequenzy and "strongness" thereoff. Only thing was, the subjects where infact heatet corpses.

Or at least that is what i was told, so i will not guarantee wether it is true or not.
Since the heart will stop beating very rapidly after the subject has stopped breathing, there is no telling wether or not the subject actually has a heartbeat or not.

Ever since then mouth-to-mouth and CPR goes hand in hand, and now don't go saying you could stop the heart from beating by doing cpr. You would have cracked every ribbone in the body before that happens. (again, this is what i have been tought, so no validation from me i'm afraid)

[subedarmajor]

only got appointed persons but it is current.

[_Geraint_]

I've got a cert in Emergency First Aid, it's geared towards outdoors injury's.

[*Big Beast*]

P.A.D.I. Medic First Aid Instructor & D.A.N. Oxygen First Aid Instructor

[Chris G]

I've been waiting a while to post on this thread.

My last FA training (Medic First Aid Care Initiator & Tower Rescue) tickets were up in 2006, but as of yesterday I've just completed the 4 day St Johns Ambulance FA in the work place course. The two best things about this are firstly that St Johns cover you for 3 years with £10m public indemnity from successful completion of the course (for free) :) :), and secondly that the trainer had been doing a first aid in the great outdoors type course last week so could give me a few additional helpful tips :).

Chris

[clownman]

im a scout leader, so I have to hold a current first response certificate, however i was trained years ago by st johns ambulance for work, which was a lot more in depth but has now expired

[Shingsowa]

Like young Sleepy Weasel, i'm Mountain Rescue Council Cas Care qual'd. Hopefully going to get my **** in gear and take the Advanced later this year.

Then i get an even bigger med pack to lug around mountains with me!

I've used it 'in anger' both on jobs and at RTCs etc. I would advise everybody to take even a basic course. You might not be able to do much more than call an ambulance etc afterwards, but chances are you'll be able to be calmer and more controlled when you do it!

[Melonfish]

St Johns for me but has since long lapsed. i really need to get it sorted again its valuable stuff.
pete

[Mabinogion]

i don't have any proper training but i do know what to do as my father taught me (he's done plenty of courses for his work), but am looking forward to a free course from st.johns with the duke of ed in a couple of months :)

[Wild Thing]

I've got a basic first aid certificate at the moment, but was more highly qualified at my previous employer.

Also had experience when hill walking of treating a few people on the hills and mountains of Wales.

Phill

[BossCat]

Humm! aint trainer in any medical stuff. I did pass & get a bronze medal for life saving but that was many many years ago.
I think if I fell into deep water today I'd need someone to save me :D

TC


http://uk.geocities.com/topcattc@btinternet.com/camping2.gif http://uk.geocities.com/topcattc@btinternet.com/Campfire2.gif

[novembeRain]

I've had no official traiing (well, very basic) But I've learned an incredible ammount from reading books and geneally picking it up as I go along. I can sort most things out in an emergency but don't claim to be an expert by any measure.

[Steve M]

I have a current First Aid at Sea qualification through the RNLI which also covers land based stuff, but avoided snake bites and other things like that.

[Mooseman1]

First aid trained runs out in two years and combat medic, need to rehash this as the course was 3 years ago.

[MichaelUK]

3 day first aid at work course due for renewing this years but am looking for a good wilderness course for some time this year.

[JoyR]

I'm an auxiliary nurse on a trauma/orthopaedic ward, so have pretty damn good general knowledge, plus Adult, Paediatric and Surgical life support certificates. Orthopaedic experience particularly helpful with regards to splinting of twists/sprains and broken bones.

[Sainty]

Did my course 26 years ago. I think my certificate may be a tad out of date. Perhaps the copperplate handwriting gives it away? :(

Martin

[Neanderthal]

Doing my First Aid at Work refresher in a couple of weeks. Where did the last 3 years go?

"Hello, can you hear me?". :)

Stu

[Opal]

I'm always up to date on my FA courses, cut my fingers slightly a few weeks back, nearly bled to death. http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[nige7whit]

Military spec basic first aid, goes with the job, and.....


IHCD FPOS (First Person On Scene) Intermediate, and I do voluntary work for First Response, with the Scottish Ambulance Service.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafleuchars/aboutus/firstresponse.cfm

[WoodWildling]

i have 4 day first aid at work and a 12 hour paedeatric first aid qualification.
working as an outdoor instructor means these come in handy!!

Wild