View Full Version : Tents
I started using a basha as a young cadet through the mob and continue to use one now which I’m happy with but it’s dawned on me how little I actually know about tents.
I’m starting to help out with D of E and other groups who use tents so I need to brush up big time. Any links would be super or advice on different designs, what makes a good tent? Anything you think might be relevant would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Den :-)
Robust. :wink: If you are taking D of E groups out the tents will take a battering. :roll:
Also look for things that will make it last longer- zips that are not under strain, well reinforced points around the guys and peg elastics and pole sleeves that are not taking too much pressure at the ends.
Try to find a tent with a fly sheet large enough so that if it is poorly pitched or on uneven ground it still covers the inner well. It is easier to pitch a tent if the inner is clipped to the outer and can be erected as one.
Dome tents seem to be the most widely used design as they have alot of internal space. They are, however, susceptible to wind as they have a high profile. If the poles are strong and flexible this will not be a problem, the tent will only 'rock' a bit! I would go for green in colour because it is alot less intrusive. Porches are good for wet gear and bags.
This is my tent (http://www.sierradesigns.com/tents.display.php?id=1430) and they do two and three man tents which look very nice. :super:
Hope this helps and i'm sure there are alot more aspects that can be discussed. :biggthump
Here's some thoughts.
Firstly, I like a full fly. One that completely covers the tent and you can stake pretty close to the ground. Couple that with a high bathtub floor and you are well protected from heavy storms.
A fly with a zipper needs a good flap to cover it. Check to see if the flap itself is held in place by velcro. Otherwise the wind will flip it and it will leak when it rains.
Free standing tents are nice (although not necessary for a good tent). You can pitch them anywhere. Vestibules are also nice. I much prefer a tent with a vestibule.
Check for UV protection. Some tents have flys with high UV protection. The sun will eat nylon. I once spent a summer living in a nylon tent and by the end of the summer you could easily shred the nylon with your hands. In contrast, my screenhouse pitched at the site had a polyester roof and easily held up to the UV.
To really protect your tent, cut 2 ground cloths, one for under the tent and one for inside.
I'd like info too, need to buy a new one soon. I'd also like patterns for *good* bashas...we all know some just seem better than others. And what is the best fabric to make them from? I can get goretex dirt cheap just now, and I can also get ventile, but it weighs a ton when wet. Plain old waterproofed ripstop I can get for £2 a meter, and eyelets aren't exactlly rocket science. Wax jacket fabric is cheap too, about £3.50, but again, it's heavy.
Any ideas?
Toddy
I've seen bashas made of quite a few materials, personally I quite like ripstop nylon, its easy to waterproof fully and can be quite light weight, also if you do end up ripping it, replacement or repair doesn't take a great deal.
Squidders
23-01-2005, 13:51
My advice would be to get a really cheap and nasty tent and get real experience with the things you're going to hate. These things will be mostly personal and specific to you, like size, shape spare room for kit, door type and size.
Then, after a few trips and you know what you hate and like, you can go out with some very specific things in mind and make a well informed choice.
The advice I would give, is very general, as is everyones so far...
*When you're ready, buy the best quality you can.
* Pitching options like inner and outer at the same time are good, if not outer first... if it's raining, you don't want to get the inner wet because you had to pitch it first.
* Subdued colours are good if you're in the wild, if you're going to be camping on sites only, get a mad coloured one so people won't drive into you in the dead of night.
* UV protection is good as are lots of vents and maybe a window to check the weather and light the interior
* some of the better manufacturers sell footprints as a protective layer under the tent, this will also make the tent a little cleaner when you pack it all up to move on.
* Pack size is always more important than weight, i'd rather have a small 5kg tent packed up than a light weight but massive one.
For tents that are going to be used for D of E I'd say the most important thing is ease of pitching. a cheep tent thats put up well will work better then a fancy high tech one put up badly.
I like my tent which pithes inner tent first. This goes against what has been said before. I think that it's stronger and puts less stress on the fly sheet but both systems can work well.
In my opinion the best tents for D of E are the old vango force ten tents. They are heavy, bulky and expensive. However they are hard wearing, durable, easy to pitch, fast to pitch and work well in heat or snow. I ddon't think D of E people have a problem with the weight as they aren't out for long and anyone can put the tent up.
simonsays
24-01-2005, 07:00
I started using a basha as a young cadet through the mob and continue to use one now which I’m happy with but it’s dawned on me how little I actually know about tents.
I’m starting to help out with D of E and other groups who use tents so I need to brush up big time. Any links would be super or advice on different designs, what makes a good tent? Anything you think might be relevant would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Den :-)
Good quality poles? Fibreglass poles may make for a cheap tent but the stuff is relatively weak, very brittle when cold, bulky and quite heavy. Easton Aluminium poles are a much more likely to survive the heavy use that the D of E would give them.
cheers,
simon
anything by easton seems to last a long time. I have a lot of respect for their QC
den i got to agree with andy on all counts.. i use Vango force 10 for ten tors and DoE they are great tents.. when we arrived at our ninth tor at 10 o'clock at night on the first day we put the thing up in a minute and crawled inside while the army helicopter landed next to use to pick up people who had hypothermia in their modern light weight jobbys, this tent has been proven time and again!!
a little on the heavy side but great tents none the less!
Great Pebble
24-01-2005, 12:24
The more I see of small "backpacking" tents, stay in them and stay around them, the more I'm convinced that the differences in the vast majority are largely cosmetic. That's not to say that a £30 number from Argos will do everything that £500's worth from Blacks will, but the difference in the performance of the two could be less than you'd think or than the salesfolk will tell you.
The more I see of small "backpacking" tents, stay in them and stay around them, the more I'm convinced that the differences in the vast majority are largely cosmetic. That's not to say that a £30 number from Argos will do everything that £500's worth from Blacks will, but the difference in the performance of the two could be less than you'd think or than the salesfolk will tell you.
You're not supposed to tell the punters that!!! :rolmao:
Seriously though, you're right. Some budget tents are just as good qualitywise as those that rely on their name.
My 2 man backpacker cost me only £40, is well made, lightweight, good quality and came with a repaire kit.
My old one which cost me £100 was heavier, and I had to pay £15 for the 'approved' repair kit...
'Quality' names at 'quality' prices doesn't necessarily mean quality kit...
bambodoggy
24-01-2005, 13:06
You're not supposed to tell the punters that!!! :rolmao:
Seriously though, you're right. Some budget tents are just as good qualitywise as those that rely on their name.
'Quality' names at 'quality' prices doesn't necessarily mean quality kit...
Totally agree Jak and GP....the other thing to remember is what you are actually going to be doing with your tent....do you really need the £500 arctic ranger two man ultra light hike tent for a weekend away in the British countryside a few times a year? ? ? My money is with the £30 Argos one (If I was a tent person, which I'm not)....but going to the Arctic circle....I'd want a good one! :pack:
Just my puppance worth....
I echo the statements regarding Easton superiority over fibreglass for the tent poles, and also Squidder's point about seeking a tent that pitches as one or outer first is pretty key.
Also an earlier observation about the merit of groundsheets needs reiterating. Tents fitted with well sealed bathtup groundsheets may well use a good, but lightweight material for this function. Thus, pitching the tent on a rough site just once could result in multiple perforations in a tent that otherwise had many years more service ahead of it. Some makers offer additional groundsheets, but these are often fairly expensive. The cheap option? Get a tarp (http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/product/product.jsp?CATID=95091&entryFlag=false&PRODID=138884) from B&Q and cut it to size.
Lastly, when camping as a group and with group excercises in mind, note that the weather might impinge on open air gatherings. If the tents are all two-man jobs, no communal gathering is possible there. The cheap option here is the open-sided pergola type tent that ASDA flog through the summer. Not all models are 100% water-proof and the 5 leg units are more stable than the 4 leg units. Look for the ones that that are made of plasticised rip-stop fabric and expect to pay £20 high season and as little as £7 when they look to clear their shelves in late August.
Main problem with most cheap tents is the quality of their poles and their groundsheets. You can get away with quite a lot if you replace the cheap fibreglass poles with decent aluminium ones and cut out a piece of tarp the same size and shape as the groundsheet to act as a "footprint" protector. Check out different ones in the shop as well, some are made better than others so you're as well checking things like seams and zips there rather than taking it home and then discovering a fault. These days the main difference between a cheap tent and a quality tent is the quality of the materials and the fit and finish - not the design.
Fraid I disagree totally about the old Vango force tens tomtom and andy. Imo they're fit only for the bin! (in fact I threw away about 15 of them last year!)
george
Great Pebble
24-01-2005, 13:43
I had a Force 10 stolen years ago (perhaps it wasn't the best thing for music festivals....). Great tent, lousy colour and the originals aren't "a little heavy" they're borderline on being vehicle assistance only options for smaller groups IMO. That said, I've got one of the old army A-frames for campsite stays and it makes the Force 10 seem like a featherweight, you can stand up in it though.
what colour was yours.. our were all olive green!?
Squidders
24-01-2005, 13:54
A perfect opportunity to check out tents is the outdoors show at the birmingham NEC in March, they have a tent city that I will be having a serious walk around and probably a serious spend.
Great Pebble
24-01-2005, 14:34
what colour was yours.. our were all olive green!?
Near luminous orange... I thought all the old Force 10's were....
Never seen one in another colour.
neo_wales2000
25-01-2005, 00:26
Argos are selling a one man tent called a "Sydney" it £15 and you enter from the side. I aim to get one the weekend with a few for using it as a cheap bivvy; it weighs 1.5 kg
http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=3151&productId=129331&clickfrom=image
Paganwolf
25-01-2005, 07:16
A perfect opportunity to check out tents is the outdoors show at the birmingham NEC in March, they have a tent city that I will be having a serious walk around and probably a serious spend.
Ill be with you there :wink: matey :lol:
simonsays
25-01-2005, 12:22
Near luminous orange... I thought all the old Force 10's were....
Never seen one in another colour.
I believe the older canvas models were orange, the newer (Lighter) nylon ones are green.
cheers,
simon
I believe the older canvas models were orange, the newer (Lighter) nylon ones are green.
cheers,
simon
For all details on Force tens just pm me
I'm a bit of a geek when it comes to them
the SD models were the cavas bright orange colour, the nylon ones (the CN) models were green. however you could get the MKIV and MKV in a CNX which had the extraned porch built in. Or you could get either a porch in orage in both nylon and canvas in the oragne colour
the nylon extrention for the MKV was 1.4kg and the canvas was 2.2kg
given that a MKV with an extrention could take five people on a D of E with kit without any problems it only werighed 6.3kg plus the 1.4kg for the porch
we carried less weight for the tent per person then the people with their own "light weight" back packing tent
Vango do a fairly nice strong tent which is good for about £40 which I think is called teh delta. They decided that rather then skip on strength form a up market tent they'd increase the weight. Thus you get a geogostic dome tent which stand up to insane winds up the alps (well my brothers did). The only issue is it's 4.2 kg for the tent. On a D of E this isn't a problem. They have enough space if for the little niggles and stand up to being put up and taken down a lot well as well.
To the man who threw away 15 force ten tents :tw::tw::tw::tw::tw::tw::tw:
tenbears10
25-01-2005, 12:45
I agree with squidders, Try a cheap one first and then get a decent one. The only way to save on the £500ish ones is look out for own brand models which are direct copies of Terra Nova and North Face but cheaper because they didn't spend on the R&D. The only exact example I can think of was one sold by the YHA shops before they went belly up which was a copy of the Terra Nova Quasar, it had easton poles and was exactly the same dimensions but a lot cheaper.
I'm not sure about the argos £30 being as good as terra nova or north face. They might seem expensive but I've had mine 10years now and when the tension on the zip caused the fabric to fray (we used it every night for 2 months) they not only repaired it free but upgraded it to the same style as the new models which had extra material to stop that problem.
Definitely go to a big tent show and test them by lying in them and even ask to take one down and pitch it yourself. Also go round at the end of the show and they might sell you the display one cheap.
The other good thing about seeing the tents up is any poor quality seems will show up a lot more. inspect these on the demo ones.
My other bit of advice is not too get upset if the tent is a right PITA to put up the first few times. The poles have to get a bit bedded in before they are easy to put up. Mine took me about ten minutes to put a pole i right the first time it's up. It's not such an issue with the longer poles in some tents. This is my only grip with mine
Argos are selling a one man tent called a "Sydney" it £15 and you enter from the side. I aim to get one the weekend with a few for using it as a cheap bivvy; it weighs 1.5 kg
http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=3151&productId=129331&clickfrom=image
That looks like very good value. And if it only lasts a couple seasons, well at about the cost of a pub lunch for two, would you care? Will anyone be bringing one to Ashdown?
jdlenton
25-01-2005, 14:18
I'm with vango force 10 advisers for DofE groups they can take the worst of weathers, last ages and take more abuse than any other tents I've seen youth groups use. The only other piece of advice I've got is to carry a small role of gaffer tape and a pole repair kit no matter what tent you use.
Wow great response. Thanks everyone. :You_Rock_
This is just the sort of information I was looking for. Keep em coming.
Can someone expand on the types of designs that are available, not for D of E but in general?
Thanks again
Den :-)
Wow great response. Thanks everyone. :You_Rock_
This is just the sort of information I was looking for. Keep em coming.
Can someone expand on the types of designs that are available, not for D of E but in general?
Thanks again
Den :-)
yeh sure
large frame tent
heavy strong easy the sort of thing you get put up with caravans. The wont hold up to lots of strong winds due to the high flat sides. Thes are out of fashion due to more mordern designs
A frame
the classic design for smaller tents. The Vango force ten (http://www.amg-outdoor.co.uk/vango2004/about/images/f10.jpg)is the mosst famous of this style. Again it's a heavy system but this gives a very strong tent. Has two poles at each end with a ridge running along the length of the tent. Simple to put up. The force ten can be pitched inner or outer tent first. They tend to have sloping sides so don't always make the best tents when they are small. A short person can just about stand in a larger model of the force ten
ridge tent
similar shape to the A frame tent (which also has a ridge pole) They tend to have one pole at each end of the tend and one running along the length of it. This means that it save a bit of weight over the A frame but looses out in strength. It also means you get a pole in the middle of the doorway which causes problems. I don't know of any tents made that use this system now though.
tunnel tent
This are just like the poly tunnels you see at garden centers. tend to have three poles which run parrallel, though some small ones only have two poles and there are big family ones with four. Allows a nice light weight tent and they seem strong enough for most peoples needs. Steeper sides then the ridge pole design so feel big inside. They often have two poles for the bedrrom section and then have a thrid pole which supports a porch area where you can store your kit. This is good for coooking under in wet conditions. vango gamma (http://www.outdoorcampingstore.co.uk/uploaded_files/gamma350med(2).jpg)
wedged tunnel
These have two poles in them with one large hoop and one small one. Give you less space then a standard tunnel tent and don't tend to have much of a porch so no space to cook under. They are stronger and will stand up to some really harsh weather though as they are often low to the ground and have lots of guys to hold them down. this (http://www.outriggers-camping.co.uk/camping/dome/cloud_1.jpg)is a good exaple of it's type
Dome tent
The mordern stardard tent. Two longish poles cross run diagonaly acoss the tent and cross over in the middle. Fairly light weigh and gives lots of space. Like tunnel tents they often have steep sides which gives a fair anout of space inside the tent. A lot have a third pole for a porch which gives space for cooking such as this one (http://www.camperite.co.uk/milano1.jpg)
geogostic dome
I doubt I spelt that right
These are basicaly a cross between a dome and a tunnel. They use four poles and tent to be used on more expensive tents. A very strong design. They weigh a lot though. I think Vango do a cheep tent which uses this pole structer though and it would be well worth looking at for D of E. This (http://www.outdoorfocus.co.uk/images/tents/vango04/hurricane/Hurricane_inner.jpg) is the inner tent of a vango Hurricane
semi geogostic dome
Odd one this. They use three poles and not surprisingly are somewhere between a normal dome and a geogostic dome tent. The Vango hydra (http://www.outdoorfocus.co.uk/images/tents/vango04/hydra/Hydra_inner.jpg) is a good example. The picture is of the inner tent. This is quite common where you want an all weather backpacking tent but they tend to be quite expensive
Cheers Andy the last post was excellent. Thanks . :You_Rock_
tenbears10
25-01-2005, 19:23
That's a comprehensive list Andy. :biggthump
Bill
That's a comprehensive list Andy. :biggthump
Bill
I don't like to do things by half
I may have to copy and save all that as I was rgather pleased with it
SquirrelBoy
25-01-2005, 19:42
Certainly know your onions... or was it tents :biggthump
redcollective
26-01-2005, 00:07
Argos are selling a one man tent called a "Sydney" it £15 and you enter from the side. I aim to get one the weekend with a few for using it as a cheap bivvy; it weighs 1.5 kg
http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=3151&productId=129331&clickfrom=image
I have one of the (in)famous Argos ProAction 'Tiger Paw' tents bought on special for £15.00 and can say yes, it'll probably do the job. Mine is not the best ventilated (I find it far too hot in summer) - can look a little too taut or loose depending on how quickly you pitch it! (or how many pints of Old Peculiar you have before you pitch it), and isn't the most robust construction. If you are careful it will probably last a little longer than a few nights. Nothing to lose, and as someone earlier on said, at least you'll know what you want after that.
red
I have one of the Argos £30 specials and was out in it the weekend before last in the gales. I saw a Jack wolfskin get blown away, a Vau De totally trashed and dare I say it a Mosketellan tipi (spelling) broken.. I had the pleasure of a snug night with no problems :super:
Argos does it for me
I've had no probs with the old Argos tent in the wind. It is a copy of the Sierra Light Year (£140!) and the design is sound.The zips are weak however, and need careful handling.
The new Argos Sydney tent is only £15. There is speculation on the uk.rec.walking newsgroup that it is single skinned and therefore suspect. Also, nearly all budget tents have glassfibre poles - the old Argos one man was unusual in having finely machined alloy poles.
However Argos have a 16 day returns policy, so would be worth a look!
Great Pebble
26-01-2005, 12:09
MMM... I've still got My Wolfskin Tundra, which I really don't much care for.
Robust enough once you have it up properly, but you need to spend a lot of time doing that. Goes up in seconds, takes up to half an hour to tension properly. PITA.
I'm still pleased with my Jack Wolfskin Termite2, which I've had for coming up for 4 years. The proofing on the groundsheet is a little sus these days, but all it takes is seperate sheet - that takes up very little space, and everything's hunky dory.
The Termite had a fully external frame that the outer hooked onto, making for a very quick putup and takedown; although the entrances had to be pegged seperately.