View Full Version : Cloaks And Traditional Woods Garb
From what I have seen in old books and movies folks in Europe are always depicted as wearing cloaks and some sort of hooded cowl akin to a monk's costume.
Any clues as to what folks back in olden times (or any time frame) wore in the outdoors as an outer garment? The only thing I can figure is that the cloaks must have been oversized to allow them to be wrapped around oneself to keep warm but I do not find any evidence about buttons? Every time you moved you were chilled down the front?
Monk
From what I have seen in old books and movies folks in Europe are always depicted as wearing cloaks and some sort of hooded cowl akin to a monk's costume.
Any clues as to what folks back in olden times (or any time frame) wore in the outdoors as an outer garment? The only thing I can figure is that the cloaks must have been oversized to allow them to be wrapped around oneself to keep warm but I do not find any evidence about buttons? Every time you moved you were chilled down the front?
Monk
The sort of cloaks you mention were either fastened at the neck with a metal clasp or a horn "Button." Prior to that they were fastened with a pin or a penanular brooch. With just one fastening, it is easy to sling one edge other the other shoulder thus closing the gap.
They are astoundingly warm to wear, especially when sitting around a fire.
Martin
Shinobi,
how oversized is yours? You mention the warmth..what material and roughly what length/width? Any other tricks to using one?
Monk
ChrisKavanaugh
11-01-2005, 04:38
http://www.jas-townsend.com/product_info.php?cpath=8&products_id=220 A bit off from cloaks but a little more practical. Of all things, I found an older shoulder cape from a english constable's uniform. It was heavy melton wool with a silver RE2 button and fell just down past the shoulders. I wore that over a simple wool shirt while in the California Redwood Campaign supporting Julia Butterfly. It was incredibly warm and handy. I last saw it heading for the buffalo campaign in Montana on a pretty young activist.
arctic hobo
11-01-2005, 09:47
I guess you could make one out of a normal wool blanket... and then have enormous fun standing on windy cliff tops with it streaming out behind you :o): I'm still 6 years old at heart!
tenbears10
11-01-2005, 09:57
Monk
Have a look at this place (http://www.jelldragon.com/viking_hats.htm) they don't seem to have cloaks but they do sell the pins which are copies of original styles which people used. The link is to the hoods they make which I think would have been worn with a simple blanket type cloak making a nice seal at the neck.
At £62 I think they are taking the mickey but they look simple to make. I was thinking of copying the design but I didn't know where to get material from. I even emailed them to see if they had a source for the cloth and I never got a reply (which I thought was a bit off but hey).
Bill
Those cloaks (or Balladrana as I've heard them called), were heavy woollen cloaks boiled in oil to waterproof them and were 'oversize' so that you could indeed wrap yourself up in them and sleep in them.
They often had a leather trim attached to the bottom to protect them from wearing out as they trailed along the ground.
We used them in the re-enactment group but any films you see of a guy swashing his buckle in them and trouncing the Sherrif of Rottingham's men whilst wearing one, the guy must have been on steroids. They weigh a damn ton!!! And don't even get me started on people swimming in them...
Army surplus blanket would give you a nice 'Elven' cloak. Aside from being REALLY itchy!
One of my stick-in-mind moments of last year was sitting on the grass on Selworthy Beacon on Exemoor in my cloak (you know the one, Jak), watching the sun set over the sea on the day of my parents Golden Wedding anniversary. I got some odd looks from the few other people there, but was warm and comfortable and away from the stiff breeze blowing that evening.
Yeah, I know the one. Your Obe Wan Kinobi cloak. Which he knicked off a Berber in Tattoine!
I saw loads of them when I was in Tunisia back in November. Nearly baught one myself...
Buckshot
11-01-2005, 11:54
There are loads of patterns to make jedi cloaks on the net.
Not sure what material to use though... a waterproof, lightwieght, 'woolen-type' I suppose. Do they exist? :?:
Cheers
Mark
What do you think us Celts have been using for centuries? :o):
Yes, you can get light weight btu fairly thick woollen cloths that are reasonably waterproof, but personally I'd back it up with sumat like SuperPel. Any good material seller should be able to advise.
Shinobi,
how oversized is yours? You mention the warmth..what material and roughly what length/width? Any other tricks to using one?
Monk
Hiya,
mine is made from a heavy weight wool, with the hood lined with silk for softness.
When I first thought about size, I was thinking of a rectangular panel 3ft x 6ft gathered around the neck. How wrong I was :shock:
Mine was made from three triangular panels joined together to make a circle, which when spread out form a circle with a 6ft radius !!!
Your head goes in the middle of the circle which means all of the material hangs down in folds keeping lots of warm air, especially when slung over the shoulder.
Lovely and warm !!!!
Hope that helps?
Martin
Why can I see lots of browm lumps in the woods and people saying "I KNOW they're camping here somewhere!!!".
Let the Farce be with you...:o):
mine (http://www.bushcraftuk.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=483&sort=2&cat=500&page=1)
bambodoggy
11-01-2005, 14:07
Why can I see lots of browm lumps in the woods
I always miss the brown lumps until I've stepped in them!!!!! :cry:
Sorry, trust me to lower the tone.... :naughty: I often wrap myself up in an old army blaket when sitting round the fire.
Great Pebble
11-01-2005, 14:15
GP adds "Jedi Garb" to list of popular Buscraft items that aren't likely to be on his shopping list.
Although I suppose I have thought about putting a wee zip into the middle of my US poncho liner so I could wear the poncho with it still attatched.
Let me know how that turns out. I've been thinking similar...
sandbender
11-01-2005, 16:02
GP adds "Jedi Garb" to list of popular Buscraft items that aren't likely to be on his shopping list.
Although I suppose I have thought about putting a wee zip into the middle of my US poncho liner so I could wear the poncho with it still attatched.
A 'kit' for doing so is available...
http://www.therangerdigest.com/Tips___Tricks/PONCHO_LINER_CONVERSION_/body_poncho_liner_conversion_. html
Great Pebble
11-01-2005, 16:11
Aye, I know. That's where the idea got implanted.
However even my limited knowledge of knitting or sewing or whatever leads me to believe that I can do it for a tad less than $12.99 plus international postage.
Buckshot
11-01-2005, 16:15
What do you think us Celts have been using for centuries? :o):
Yes, you can get light weight btu fairly thick woollen cloths that are reasonably waterproof, but personally I'd back it up with sumat like SuperPel. Any good material seller should be able to advise.
Sorry Jak, I'm being a bit thick here but can you give me an example of the material you're talking about?
Cheers
Mark
outdoorgirl
11-01-2005, 16:33
There are a number of simple patterns for cloaks for fancy-dres costume that actually work very well. Simplicity has one, I know, and there are LOADS on another pattern site whose name escapes me right now.
I'll look them up when I get home and post here. Cloaks are easy to make, but require a lot of fabric (5-6 yards usually for a normal adult). You can make them out of almost any fabric, depending on what funtion you want the cloak for. Warm ones - use wool, it's got some natural waterproofing, but if you want more then use a modern waterproofer as well.
Sources for wool fabric at not-too-expensive prices: Anne Laverick sells good wool from £6 - £8 per metre. I''l post more when I have the details.
(Yes, I'm another re-enacting / role-playing freak...) :)
No problem Mark.
I can't rememebr the name of the material but there is a woollen cloth, heavier than kilting material but not as heavy as tweed, that can be used for making clothing. Its' reasonably light, and quite waterproof on it own due to its thickness and the way its produced, bit like felt making from what I can remember.
I'll ask around the family and check my notes and chat to my lady in the haberdashers tomorrow and see if I can find the proper name for you. If she has some I might even make a baladrana for the Ashdown meet, just for a laugh...
(Yes, I'm another re-enacting / role-playing freak...) :)
Who you calling a freak? Womble! She needs educating!!!Should we let the Wayland loose on her?:rolmao:
outdoorgirl
11-01-2005, 20:00
Looks like the Simplicity pattern is up in the loft or something, but I think it's 9067? Also Butterick 3084 is a good one. Use either a good big toggle/button & loop, or a decent clasp. If it's for heavy use, fix a good piece of lether to the cloak before attaching the fastening or it'll tear out of the cloth.
A great place for patterns of all kinds is Harper House - www.longago.com
They also do dolls' patterns, but look at the various Era's and international sections for all kinds of clothing used by people in the past and today. Check out the Colonial section for good bushcrafty type clothing as worn by the pioneers in the west...
Cloth: Anne Laverick is a good place to start:
Anne Laverick
Vale Head Farm
52 Pontefracts Road
Knottingly
West Yorkshire
WF11 8RA
UK
Telephone: 01977-677390
She sells cotton, linen & wools and is usually very helpful. You can also see her in person (and handle the fabric) at the re-enactors markets, held twice a year (next one in March).
Hope this helps... :)
(And I'm allowed to call myself a freak... ..so there...)
sandbender
11-01-2005, 21:18
Two years ago I took a few months to walk a little over a thousand miles from the middle of France to the Atlantic coast of Spain, this is a section of one the European long distance footpaths, however it also follows one of the old pilgrim roads to Santiago and every church, cathedral, farmhouse lintel, public well along the route features carvings of the mediaeval pilgrims en-route.
The detail of these was often good enough to identify individual pieces of traveling equipment and clothing.
Quite sizable open frame rucksacks were common.
Blanket rolls worn over the shoulder, crossing the body and tied at the side were an alternative.
knives were large, worn openly, usually on the left side and where drawn (where the subjects were shown fighting vagabonds, bears etc.) were of a falchion type.
Very large wide brimmed hats of a ‘sou'wester’ style were very popular.
Cloaks where the detail was clear seemed to have arm holes and oversized hoods, beneath this a full length shirt or cassock type garment was evident.
Footwear varied but sandals were common, with or without socks.
Stout shoulder height walking staffs (occasionally a pair of staffs one in each hand) were always used, I had one of these for my walk and found it just as handy for beating off rabid farm dogs as it was for stopping me being blown off mountain tops.
I found this woodcut on the internet which is a good example of what I was seeing.
http://chass.colostate-pueblo.edu/history/seminar/fabri/pilgrim.gif
Thanks for the info sandbender, it sounds like you had a good time. I hope to do something like that when I finish my degree!
sandbender
11-01-2005, 23:37
Thanks for the info sandbender, it sounds like you had a good time. I hope to do something like that when I finish my degree!
I had an great time, you can find info on the route at...
http://www.era-ewv-ferp.org/index.php?E3
http://www.wanderingtheworld.com/santiago/links.htm
Or if you fancy something a bit more ruffty-tuffty...
http://www.trekkinginturkey.com/index.html
my favorite is my hudson bay capote. made from u.s. army blankets, I added a couple of changes, mine is ankle length with snaps to shorten it to just above knees. my woman just about has to hold me at gunpoint to get it off long enough to wash it. it is a super bit of kit and then some.
Two years ago I took a few months to walk a little over a thousand miles from the middle of France to the Atlantic coast of Spain, this is a section of one the European long distance footpaths, however it also follows one of the old pilgrim roads to Santiago and every church, cathedral, farmhouse lintel, public well along the route features carvings of the mediaeval pilgrims en-route.
You must have been one of those folk I avoided on the road In St Jean Pied-de-Port? My mum lived in the French Pyrenees for a few years.
I was astounded how many people would make the pilgrimage from lourdes to Santiago. Thankfully, never saw one as roadkill :shock: Which was a surprise when you see how the french drive on mountain roads !!!
Martin
sandbender
12-01-2005, 08:27
You must have been one of those folk I avoided on the road In St Jean Pied-de-Port? My mum lived in the French Pyrenees for a few years.
Martin
I was indeed.
:)
* These aren't the bushcrafters you're looking for..... Move along :o):
Who you calling a freak? Womble! She needs educating!!!Should we let the Wayland loose on her?:rolmao:
<locks and loads the intercontinental Ballistic Wayland>
*Wonders how the Nepaleese Monks/buddists manages mountaneering, only wearing their robe* :shock:
bambodoggy
12-01-2005, 14:43
*Wonders how the Nepaleese Monks/buddists manages mountaneering, only wearing their robe* :shock:
The robes they wear are pretty warm...just like Kilts the Scots wore in the highlands.
They also use meditation to control their body heat....neat trick if you can do it!!!! :o):
Thanks all!
Sandbender..thanks for info on traditional garb from pics.
Jakunen, I often wondered about those cloaks but okay you cleared it up by explaining how they were boiled in oil/oversized to capture warmth/leather edge reinforcements and HEAVY! so they were warm enough to sleep in!
Monk
Linen underneath, wool over, is the rule; wool quite quickly becomes greasy from wear, but you can speed the showerproofing along by rinsing it in *loads* of fabric conditioner.
I make cloaks a lot, they look great if you use loads of fabric, but apart from posing or sitting around in they're a damned nuisance to work in and when they get soaked they grooooow. The Roman army one is probably the most efficient design; it's like a long hooded tabard split down the front and open at the sides, and you can fling it over your shoulders to clear your arms without losing the warmth....and it still looks cool! Cut the hem corners round and it doen't even trail when it's pouring down. It's hard to beat the jacket the native Canadians made from wool blankets though.
Incidentally, Goretex can be bought in Glasgow just now for £3 a metre......I got loads! :lol: Phone number for the shop is available....and they have ripstop too. Oh and Ikea are selling good linen fabric, called 'Ainu', in plain natural colours, for £3.50 a metre.
Toddy
arctic hobo
22-01-2005, 10:52
Wool quickly becomes greasy? In my experience it has stayed untainted longer than any other fabric :?:
Hello,
Didn't say it looked 'dirty', but have a *real* close look or give it a wash...it's astonishing what it picks up! It lasts so well though, and is always wearable, doesn't go on fire from a spark and even wet it's warm; just treat it right and keep it away from moths. If you boil up some bog myrtle and rinse the wool in the liquid it'll not only deter the moths but it'll deter midgies some too :wink:
Toddy
Bob Hurley
22-01-2005, 17:01
How about a matchcoat? They were very common during the colonization of America, even being an issue garment by the military. They may have been copied from the Native garment already in common use, or may have been a simple expedient. I carry one often, it serves as a blanket when camped and is great to wrap up in by the fire on cool nights.
Mine was made by Wilde Weavery at http://wildeweavery.com/ . If you'll click on the link marked "Blankets/Matchcoats" there are pictures along with a how-to-wear tutorial.
Oh what a link, thank you :-)
The matchcoat looks like it is just a narrow version of a philabeag...the original kilt and cloak in one....women wear an arisaid the same way. It's a really practical garment. Mine has 5 yards of tartan in it and pleating it over my belt is a real pain. The boys just lie down on the ground and do it that way.
I'm going to pass that link on to some friends. Thanks again,
Toddy
Bob Hurley
22-01-2005, 20:10
You're absolutely welcome, Toddy.
I've spent a bit of time in the woods wearing 18thC Native clothing and kit (post-contact, so I have metal goods), and if you ever do the same you'll hate your modern clothes. With a breechclout and leggings your hips are completely unrestricted so you can easily step over sticks, logs, etc. without binding. The leggings are gartered below the knees, so your pants legs don't drag across your kneecap if you have to make a big step up or over something. A big, long shirt (or two or three) allows great upper body movement, and the waist sash gives you a good place to tuck your knive and tomahawk. The matchcoat is worn in whatever manner suits your sense of style and purpose, and is good bedding for all but the coldest nights. A tumpline weighs next to nothing (mine is of fingerwoven hemp), so you lose the weight of a pack. Carry a small cloth sack to keep the rest of your kit gathered, roll it up in the matchcoat or blanket, tie with tumpline and your camp is ready to travel. It's a bivouac/siwash-weight kit with the comfort of a heavier rig.
The bear oil they used as a "body lotion" adds a layer of warmth (remember the Channel swimmers greasing themselves?), and stops all but the most persistent mosquitoes and gnats. You can add some red ochre powder to it to stop the really devious bitey-things, and it camoflages you nicely - besides, I live in Deliverance country, and even the weird ones give me a wide berth when I'm painted up. :wink:
I like to travel very lightly when I'm out too. Probably why I like foraging. Really practical clothing is such a good thing. Sometimes we get too high-tech now. Our (relatively) hairless skins really appreciate being oiled, don't they? Hadn't thought of adding something to it like ochre.....it'd look a bit odd in a Scottish woodland....on the other hand, there's the woad :-)
Toddy