View Full Version : RSJ/Lintle.....any idea's? ? ?
bambodoggy
10-01-2005, 11:24
Hey Guys,
For reasons best know to him my Father bought me an angle grinder for Christmas, seeing as I've never done any metal work and had no plans to I can only imagine that he's going to be asking to borrow it sometime soon!!!!
Anyway, when I moved into my house about 3 years ago I inheritted a 15 foot length of RSJ/Lintle which has sat at the end of my garden behind my log cabin since.
I was going to use my new angle grinder to cut the thing up so I can get it down to the local dump but then I thought.....I have a little workshop and now I have steel....maybe I'll have a bash at making myself a knife :?:
I figured as long as I don't aim to high....how can I go wrong! I also happen to have cut one of my apple trees right back last year and have some nicely seasoned apple wood left that I can make the handle out of....
I have tools and a bench with a vice and an electric grinding wheel and I even have a rivvet gun.
So....I don't need help or advice on actually making the knife (although as and when I get stuck I will be calling on your guys to help me!!! :o): ), I prefer to make my own mistakes and mess things up in my own particular way (best way to learn I think) and I have a rough plan in my head but I need to ask you guys three questions first....
1) Is there any reason why I can't/shouldn't use the metal from an RSJ to make a knife (If the answer is yes then the project stops here as I don't want to buy anything for this....I want a free knife).
2) What's the black layer of "stuff" between the knife tang and the wooden handles on most bushcraft knifes and what's it for and made of....do I need it?
3) How do I make the knife all nice and shiny after I finish it.....the RSJ is rather dull and oxidised but I'd rather my new knife looked a bit like I'd made an effort with it.
If you could answer the three questions I'd be very greatful. :super:
Cheers,
Phil.
tenbears10
10-01-2005, 12:00
1) Is there any reason why I can't/shouldn't use the metal from an RSJ to make a knife (If the answer is yes then the project stops here as I don't want to buy anything for this....I want a free knife).
don't know someone else will have to pipe up regarding the metal.
2) What's the black layer of "stuff" between the knife tang and the wooden handles on most bushcraft knifes and what's it for and made of....do I need it?
It is spacer material. I don't think it is essential but it will add to the finish of the knife. Joe at outdoor supplies sells it or I have some spare if you don't mind red.
3) How do I make the knife all nice and shiny after I finish it.....the RSJ is rather dull and oxidised but I'd rather my new knife looked a bit like I'd made an effort with it.
the shine is just sharpening, polishing and buffing. Look at a gransfors axe, mostly as it came from the forge except for the sharpened edge.
Bill
bambodoggy
10-01-2005, 12:38
Lol....two out of three ain't bad Matey..... Many thanks :wave:
Do you know what the spacer stuff is made of? It looks like thin plastic, is that all it is? If so do you think I could improvise with the black plastic from the tray of a microwave ready meal or similar?
As you can tell, I want to do this partly on the cheap but more importantly out of things laying about my home....bit of recycling....just to see if I can :?: :o):
Lol....two out of three ain't bad
Do you know what the spacer stuff is made of? :o):
are you a meatloaf fan?
it's called vulcan fiber
I would guess it's highly vucanised rubber. Same sort of thing as a hocky puck would be my guess
The steel from the RSJ is mild steel, it can't be hardened to make a good knife. You can use it to practise on and I use an angle grinder to rough grind my blades which saves a lot of time and money. Cheap sources of suitable knife steels are files, leaf springs on cars and trucks and saw blades. Keep about 6 inches of the RSJ, they make good anvils.
bambodoggy
10-01-2005, 13:18
Cool...thanks Chaps....... looks like this will be a practice knife then :o):
Good tip on the anvil idea, I'll do that.
Andy....could I use the cut open rubber from a bike innertube as the spacer then if it's rubber?
Oh and NO, definately not a Meatloaf fan...the food or the singer! :nana:
tenbears10
10-01-2005, 14:35
It's not vulcanised rubber in the same way as innertubes. It is fairly stiff material not bendy like the rubber you are thinking of.
Bill
You could try using an old (or new!) plastic file or binder for spacer material; gives you a range of colour options, as well as plenty of cheap material to make mistakes with!
:o):
Danzo
bambodoggy
10-01-2005, 14:55
Nice one Danzo..... I've got lots of them laying about at work....I'll liberate a couple!
I'm not sure how vulcanised they are. I guess if your making a practice knife then you can find out. It's worth noting that I haven't sen a single kitchenm knife with vulcan spacers. I don't really see the need othwer then looks
Dunno if it is vulcanised or not Andy, as to be honest I don't know what vulcanised means! Predigested by Mr Spock?
:shock:
I have been told that quite a lot of even quite well known knifemakers use plastic file material as spacers between scales and tang, as opposed to a spacer between handles and blade.
:-)
Danzo
right I'm now going back to A level physics so may be a bit off. If it's too off topic feel free to deleat or move as the mods see fit
valcanisation is the process of turning the ruber that you get from a tree or in most cases a substitute into something useful. I think it was first developed by a Mr Charles Goodyear. (Nothing to do with good year tyres other then they named it after him as a tribute). What your basicaly doing is getting a load of polymer chains of molicules which will stretch a lot and adding links between more chains so that it's harder to stretch/bend etc.
You just add more of the chemical your using to vulcanise the rubber to make the rubber less stetchy (higher youngs modulus). We got to play about adding a chemical to PVA glue and making bouncy balls.
bambodoggy
10-01-2005, 15:25
I have been told that quite a lot of even quite well known knifemakers use plastic file material as spacers between scales and tang, as opposed to a spacer between handles and blade.
Ok....Mr Thicky here: What are scales?
Oh, also....I have an old knackered lawnmover with the flat horizontal spinny round blades (rather than the drum type I mean)....would this be better to use than the RSJ for a more permanant knife?
The idea is, as a total beginner, to fumble my way through to a useable knife without shelling out ANY money on materials.....
No real reason.....just a little project I dreamed up while wondering what to do with my new angle grinder!!!! :rolmao: :rolmao: :rolmao:
So why does spacer material need to be vulcanised?
:?:
Danzo
Ok....Mr Thicky here: What are scales?
Sorry I should have been clearer. Scales are just the two bits of wood making up the handle on a full tang knife.
Danzo
bambodoggy
10-01-2005, 15:29
Ah....that's good, that's the bit I meant anyway :o): Think I'll still try your plastic file idea.....nice and cheap!!!! :o):
So why does spacer material need to be vulcanised?
:?:
Danzo
good question. errrm softer stuff will deform and could get bits of grit in allowing for water to get in. Then again rubber seals are relitively soft.
just a thought. I may be wrong
mmcniven
10-01-2005, 15:38
Another option instead of vulcanised fiber is to use some wood veneer, alot cheaper and you can match it to the main wood and put a contrasting colour between it and the main piece of wood. ???...you know what i mean....
If you are looking for a piece of tool steel for the blade i might have a spare piece you could have, i will have a dig about, not certain i have any left but i will look, would 4mm be ok ?
Michael
Lawnmower blades are mild steel in my experience, you should be able to pick up old files at junk shops and car boot sales, its cheap steel to practice stuff like grinding and heat treating if you want to do that as well. Files can make very good knives. The first knife you make is always special, I made mine 30 years ago from plywood, it wasn't very good at cutting though!
bambodoggy
10-01-2005, 16:23
If you are looking for a piece of tool steel for the blade i might have a spare piece you could have, i will have a dig about, not certain i have any left but i will look, would 4mm be ok ?
Michael, that's a really kind offer and thank you very much but I really want this first knife to be totally "junk" made from bits and bobs I find around the house and garden. It's also going to be a pain for you to ship it down to Surrey for me. Again, thank you very much for the offer but I'll politely decline :You_Rock_
Top Idea on the wood veneer but again as I don't have any laying about at home it can't be used in this project.....lol....which started off as a way to make use of the angel grinder my dad bought me and is now turning into a small scale "Scrap heap challenge"...lol :rolmao: I'm fairly set on the cheap plastic file idea for the spacer now.
I've got a couple of old right-angle pickets at the bottom of the garden holding up an even older chain-link fence.....are these any good does anyone know?
arctic hobo
10-01-2005, 16:29
I don't know about the pickets but I'll echo what Shing said about the RSJ, it's certain to be mild steel. If I were you I'd keep it, even if only in bits, as it's very handy stuff. :wave:
bambodoggy
10-01-2005, 16:32
I'm going to keep about 6" as Shing suggested to use as an anvil but I'll most likely dump the rest as I've had it 3 years and not used it yet and have no plans (a part from this hair brained one) to use it. Can't see us extending our house in the near future, we've already got 4 bedrooms between two of us!!!! :o):
Just so that you can see what the fibre spacers are like, go and look at www.brisa.fi Dennis has some colors and sizes on sale at the moment but I'm really suggesting this just so that you can look at the materials.
Spacers are added for decoration not function. Most knives don't have them so just leave them off. In any case, the deal is that you are going to glue the scales (2 sides of the handle), the spacers (or not) and the "tang" (handle end of the blade) up like a sandwich using normal (slow set) araldite. It's the glue not the pins through the handle that normally keeps it all together these days. If you pick some plastic for spacers that doesn't glue well, you're better off without them. That's probably why the vulcanising business - this material needs to be stong and to bond well with glue.
So far as the steel is concerned, purely practical considerations mean that scrap suitable for turning into knives is likely to need forging. If you want to make a first blade by filing there aren't many scrap sources of tool steel that won't require a huge amount of effort to file down to the right thickness etc. On the other hand it can be bought cheaply (under a fiver) from industrial suppliers like RS components or Cromwell tools under the name of "ground flat stock" in numerous sizes and thicknesses. These will need far less work to file into shape before you heat treat it.
Cheers
bambodoggy
10-01-2005, 23:12
These will need far less work to file into shape before you heat treat it.
Heat treat it.....heat treat it.....boy, I have got a lot to learn haven't I.....and there was me thinking a few hours of fun in the shed with my angle grinder, a hacksaw, a few files and my bench grindstone and I'd wonder out with a blinder and finish the edge on my DC4!!!! :yikes: Clearly not the case at all...!!!!
Thanks for all the info guys but I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do this after all....I know nothing about forging or heat treating and it's unrealistic to think I can learn from you guys via a forum and a bit unfair to ask you to teach me for free....tips are cool but teaching me from scratch strikes me as taking the ____ a wee bit. :shock:
Think I'll give up, hand the angle grinder over to my Dad (who clearly wanted it in the first place..lol) and just carry on with my MOD Knife/Spiderco combo.
Again....many many thanks for all your help and ideas :wave:
A good thread never dies......
Found this just in case anyone's interested.................... ...
Vulcanise:
To improve the strength, resiliency, and freedom from stickiness and odor of rubber, for example, by combining with sulfur or other additives in the presence of heat and pressure.
Vulcanized Fibre:
A dense homogeneous cellulosic material which has been partially gelatinized by swelling with zinc chloride solution. It is made in sheets, rods, coil and tubes and is used for electrical insulation as well as mechanical applications.
arctic hobo
11-01-2005, 10:03
Heat treat it.....heat treat it.....boy, I have got a lot to learn haven't I.....and there was me thinking a few hours of fun in the shed with my angle grinder, a hacksaw, a few files and my bench grindstone and I'd wonder out with a blinder and finish the edge on my DC4!!!! :yikes: Clearly not the case at all...!!!!
Thanks for all the info guys but I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do this after all....I know nothing about forging or heat treating and it's unrealistic to think I can learn from you guys via a forum and a bit unfair to ask you to teach me for free....tips are cool but teaching me from scratch strikes me as taking the ____ a wee bit. :shock:
Think I'll give up, hand the angle grinder over to my Dad (who clearly wanted it in the first place..lol) and just carry on with my MOD Knife/Spiderco combo.
Again....many many thanks for all your help and ideas :wave:
If you've the equipment I'd go through it with you... but you're a fair distance away from me. Maybe at a meetup sometime :biggthump Are you coming to Dartmoor in Feb for our Scandinavia expo meetup?
bambodoggy
11-01-2005, 10:39
I certainly hope so....just need to clear it with the Mrs....she gets the **** if I'm away to much! I'm at the Ashdown meet right at the end of Jan so if it's too close I won't be able to......unless there's a B&B close by that she can stay at! lol
What was the date in Feb again?
If you think it unfair to ask for tuition on BCUK why not hop over to us on www.britishblades.com where we all positively revel in giving advice on knives and knifemaking. Our threads are positively awash with the sort of help and information you want!
:biggthump
Danzo
arctic hobo
11-01-2005, 11:07
We were thinking of Fri 18th over to Sat 19th Feb. Everyone I have spoken to so far seems to be OK for those dates - I am sure there are many B&B's there too, Dartmoor has hundreds.
bambodoggy
11-01-2005, 11:08
Thanks Danzo....I might just do that :biggthump
C_Claycomb
11-01-2005, 12:24
It is perfectly realistic to think you can learn to make a knife by reading forums!!
www.britishblades.com
Shop Talk on Blade Forums (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=789)
Custom Knife Directory (http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
Plenty of info out there. That is how a lot of people start. There are even good books that can talk you through the basics, Wayne Goddard's are particularly good.
bambodoggy
11-01-2005, 13:43
It is perfectly realistic to think you can learn to make a knife by reading forums!!
Fair enough and thank you all for your support....I just thought it was a bit cheeky expecting the guys to talk me through things from scratch...(I'm still not totally comfortable with it - as I said hints and tips are cool)...
Think if I do decide to go for this then I'll stick my hand in my pocket and buy a good book about it first (thanks for the links above Mate).
C_Claycomb
11-01-2005, 14:42
Well, it might be cheeky to ask to be talked through it :wink: :rolmao:
It is a question that has come up both here and (LOTS) on BB not to mention other sites, so a bit of searching and reading will turn up litterally tons of info without having to ask for anything :biggthump
Best way to consistently get good info from knife makers is to do some leg work first, then ask about the bits you are really stuck on.
bambodoggy
17-01-2005, 14:13
Problem solved.... :o): I was disapointed that I couldn't use the RSJ but I have found in amongst my gash kit store a brand new unused knife that is the size of a Rambo survival knife but is just one solid bit of metal. It was a cheap market knife somebody bought me once thinking I'd like it....I didn't but never throw anything away....
Not one of those hollow things with kit in them but still the sort of thing you wouldn't want to be seen out with for fear of being nicked and far to big in the hand to use for anything other than chopping. Think it's made in china by mikarta for somebody....might have been maxim, started with an M anyway!
I know the steel isn't going to be fantastic but it's a first try so I'm quite happy now....I can grind it down to the size I want and have a go at making a bushcraft type knife with it... :-P
Will be using the dried apple wood from my apple tree and the old plastic files as spacers.....as/when I'm finished I'll post a few pics of before and after.
Thanks again for all your help and advice...
I'm at the Ashdown meet right at the end of Jan
I'm not doing any forging then, but if you want, I can bring along some bits & pieces of kit for you to see? I'm not lugging it out of the Land Rover if I don't need to, either!!!
bambodoggy
17-01-2005, 15:04
Another very kind offer Espy....but hopefully I won't need it....got my angle grinder....various files, new hack saw and electric grinding wheel so if it can't be made with that lot it won't be made at all.... :wave:
again, many thanks for the offer..... See ya in Ashdown! :o):
Well, if I can help, feel free to ask.
bambodoggy
17-01-2005, 15:51
Nice one, thanks Mate :biggthump