View Full Version : Base Layers
Leigh Robinson
11-10-2009, 21:29
Hi,
In the realisation that I could probably use some base layers this winter I am on the lookout for a set of top and bottoms. I have no idea what I should get that will be suitable for walking/hiking in the woods, keeping me dry but also keeping the sweat off of me.
I think people on here are quite experienced in this so I thought I should ask.
To my knowledge it works like this:
Base layer
Microfibre fleece or warm jumpers
waterproof but breathable outer shell.
Please could you tell me what good base layers are out there as I am stuck with all their marketing speak!
launditch1
11-10-2009, 21:34
I have recently aquired a set of new unissued u.s.forces polypropelene drawers and shirt.Its part of their cold weather system.IIRC its the set ive described,a fleece and matching trousers then the Goretex jacket and trousers.
They are very cheap and easy to get brand new.Kind of a light brown in colour.Very warm too!
From personal experience buy something in Merino wool. Ullefrotte are good, but there are cheaper brands around. Some people swear by more hi-tech fabrics, but wool is warm, even when wet, and doesnt tend to smell that much after a few days!
Ullefrotte fabric has lots loops on the inside ( like a towel) so traps lots of air.
Another vote for Ullfrotte/Woolpower, I've got the full set of tops but use some Lowe Alpine poly trousers which I've had for donkeys years.
EDIT:
Forgot to mention Nordic Outdoors have 30% off Ullfrotte gear at the moment of you're interested Leigh
Please could you tell me what good base layers are out there as I am stuck with all their marketing speak!
Hi Leigh,
Baselayers are an area rich in outdoor marketing babble.
Avoiding 'Bushcraft Fashion' I basically tend to think of baselayers like this.
Synthetic ( Helly Hansen Lifa, Polypropolyne, Berghaus ACL, Patagonia Capilene etc) warm when wet fast to dry. Can stink if worn for days on end hence the phrase 'Smelly Helly'... relatively inexpensive especially so if you avoid a brand name. Easily melted if worn next to a fire or if your loved one tries to iron it....
Wool or Wool / synthetic mixes ( Merino, Icebreaker, Ullfrotte, Macpac etc) warm when wet, fast to dry, Generally better smelling when worn for a few days on end, generally spark resistant, expensive, needs care when washing....
I've got a mixture of the above and to be honest performance wise ( keeping you warm and breathe-ability) there is not a lot in it between Wool and Synthetic IMHO... I find the Ice Breaker stuff incredibly over priced but then it is also constantly on sale here in NZ as new stuff comes into fashion... Synthetic stuff does pong after a couple of days but if you're out for a weekend at a time that's no big deal. If you're out for longer solo then it's no big deal either ;)
If I was buying from scratch I'd invest my hard earned in some synthetic stuff to start and see how I went with that...
Hope this helps..
I find the Ice Breaker stuff incredibly over priced but then it is also constantly on sale here in NZ as new stuff comes into fashion...Icebreaker is expensive when you compare it with the obvious alternatives but I honestly think that the comfort benefits of Merino make it worth the extra cost.
I own a few of the Superfine (190) t-shirts, which I use as a base layer and, I have to say that I'm glad I did. They're really comfortable, dry very quickly and resist odour fantastically well. The only downside is that, with the fabric being so fine, they're somewhat susceptible to holing if subjected to rough treatment.
..suitable for walking/hiking in the woods, keeping me dry but also keeping the sweat off of me.I do some climbing (a sport where it's not uncommon to work up a sweat and encounter cold and rain) and the outdoor clothing industry has been busily beavering away over the past few years, coming up with some concepts and products which present alternatives to the traditional base-fleece-waterproof system of layers that you mentioned. The criteria you mentioned make me think that you should take a look at some of these, particularly the "softshell" concept, which is designed to replace the traditional "hard shell" (e.g. Gore-tex) jackets with something that's more breathable but not quite as waterproof. If you're in amongst trees (i.e. somewhat sheltered from both the rain and wind), you probably don't need the same level of water-resistance that you do if you're trudging up the side of a mountain straight into the driving wind.
It's worth looking beyond the obvious brand names because some of the smaller, slightly more niche companies, like Paramo and Rab, have come up with some interesting products.
For example, I have a Rab Vapour Rise Trail jacket, which has a brushed micro-fleece lining that's designed to wick moisture away from your skin, with a wind- and water-resistant outer layer. It was apparently designed to be work with nothing underneath it but I wear the aforementioned thin Icebreaker t-shirts as a base layer under it because I found that it got stinky quite fast if I didn't. It's a really comfortable combination.
I'm a big believer in doing a lot of background reading when considering a purchase like this and the trick is finding independent, unbiased information which presents background information and facts, as opposed to trying to get you to buy something. There are some very good articles on this website - http://www.psychovertical.com/?clothing - which are blessedly free of any marketing bias.
Icebreaker is expensive when you compare it with the obvious alternatives but I honestly think that the comfort benefits of Merino make it worth the extra cost.
I own a few of the Superfine (190) t-shirts, which I use as a base layer and, I have to say that I'm glad I did. They're really comfortable, dry very quickly and resist odour fantastically well. The only downside is that, with the fabric being so fine, they're somewhat susceptible to holing if subjected to rough treatment.
Hi,
Agreed Icebreaker is nice kit but I can get 4 Polypro tops ( more if their on discount at Kathmandu) for the same price as 1 Icebreaker and as you say it is fragile, mine have holes from general wear and tear whereas my Kathmandu polypro tops wear like they're made from granite... In terms of keeping you warm and speed of drying there is nothing in it between an Icebreaker and a Polypro top in my experience.
redandshane
12-10-2009, 08:12
For some good quality base layers-Dutch half wool and Italian wool take a look at Endicotts
I can vouch for the Dutch ones Great value and top quality
http://www.endicotts.co.uk/advanced_search_result.php?key words=base+layer&x=10&y=9
John Fenna
12-10-2009, 08:42
Have you looked at Silkbody - silk/merino mix?
Very comfy!
drewdunnrespect
12-10-2009, 08:51
tescos long johns and string vests now there's a winning combanation for very cheap
I agree about the price of Icebreaker being high for the durability of the product. They were selling it half-price in my local Field and Trek and I still balked at the price when I can get get other brands for much less.
I've recently been experimenting with wearing compression tops (Under Armour, Nike, etc). I'm not sure if they do what it says on the tin but it does seem to help trap warm air next to the skin. Of course it has the usual downside of synthetics in that you'd better wash it after every wear if you don't want it to stink (they are easy to wash and dry super fast though).
The fact that synthetics are flammable shouldn't be a problem because it is a base layer so won't be exposed to fire (I read that it is a problem for soldiers though as sometimes their clothing catches fire during warfare and the base layers melt to their flesh).
If you look around you can get often get synthetic base layers for as little as a fiver. Aldi are going to be doing some cheap ones soon I think, although I got a genuine Under Armour top in a sale for less than they are charging.
Andy2112
12-10-2009, 14:42
Aldi, top and long johns for around £10 - £12. Does the job for me.:D
I have both synthetic baselayers: Paramo, Helly Hansen etc, and wool baselayers: Woolpower, Icebreaker etc.
I would agree with what Dodger said, that your intended activity levels should dictate what you wear. For example If I am counting geese at dawn in the middle of winter, which involves sitting still for several hours at a time in sub-zero temperatures, then I would wear the Woolpower underwear. with maybe a flannel shirt, heavy fleece and outerlayer.
This would be too much if I was hillwalking in winter, when I would wear a synthetic baselayer, microfleece shirt, and goretex or Paramo outerlayer, carrying extra insulation in the rucksak.
I would agree with everyone elses comments about the stink factor, you can get away with wearing the woolen baselayers for a week, but don't try doing that with the Paramo or Hellys if you want to have friends :lmao:
littlebiglane
13-10-2009, 11:40
I have a mixture of base layers. Too many to all wear at once!
Woolpower good but I find the loop knit snags - but its good
Endicotts Half-Wol (Dutch) is a bargain - long and good.http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=126&products_id=1250 Team that with a small Norgee: http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1 823 or http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1 255 and you'll be getting there.
My 'tip' for this season is going for cheap merino (on the small size) from Uniqlo like this http://www.uniqlo.co.uk/catalogue/men/extra-fine-merino/370556-dark-brown-extra-fine-merino-crew-neck-sweater.
My other tip is getting some of their brown or green Heat Tech stuff - cheap, hollow-fibre and all the rage in Japan at the moment. Its fairly well made too for the price. http://www.uniqlo.co.uk/catalogue/men/heattech and spec here http://www.uniqlo.co.uk/heattech
Old Bones
16-10-2009, 20:56
I've just bought one of the Dutch half-wool tops http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=126&products_id=1250, as littlebiglane and redandshane have mentioned. Its excellent quality (as Dutch stuff tends to be), but I have to admit it was too itchy for me, even though I thought I was OK with wool . If you are sensitive to wool, but want something similar, you might want to try one of Endicotts Italian wool tops in green http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1 625, which they say are 'Very comfortable to wear unless you have very sensitive skin'. At £9.95, its possibly worth having a go.
I have used the Swedish 'norgie' http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=126&products_id=1823 (which littlebiglane rightly recommends as a midlayer) as a base layer (as well as a mid-layer), and its pretty comfortable, although not really designed for it. For less than a tenner (and thats if you go for the very best grade), its excellent value.
Personally speaking, I think their French F1 'norgie' is brilliant http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=126&products_id=1561 - its cotton, and basically a bit like a rugby shirt, but its fine for summer mid-layer, you can wear it without it screaming 'surplus', and its so good my wife keeps borrowing it!
If your ordering from Endicotts, I'd suggest you just ring them and ask for their recommendations - they're extremely helpful.
PS - I've also just bought one of their 60 Pattern jackets http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=126&products_id=1780 - fantastic quality, and their service was great. Certainly an alternative to an M65 or DPM.
No connection with Endicotts, just the usual happy customer.
Of course, Cotswold currently have the full Lifa set for £30 on their website, which sounds very tempting...
The Cumbrian
16-10-2009, 21:09
I've just got a set of bamboo base layers at a discount place at Ullared, here in Sweden for about eight quid. I'm trying them out for the first time tomorrow, so I'll let you all know what it's like.
Agree with a lot of what has been said. Wool base layers can be worn for a week if the activity level is relatively low. However if you are hiking hard and sweating a lot, or falling in water, a woollen base layer will wet out and chill you and take a fair while to dry. The loop-stitch style woollen-hybrids, eg Ullefrotte, do this less.
I have defected back to synthetic base layers and find that properly washed with base-layer wash, which seems to contain something which kills the bugs, they don't become smelly. Lowe Alpine get my vote.
NS
I can recommend the Italian wool shirts from Endicott's, got some a while ago in the original off-white. Mind, they aren't suitable for everyone, especially if you're not used to wool.
Tracky bottoms from Primark are a good 'base layer' :D
The Cumbrian
17-10-2009, 01:04
Although my preference is for a synthetic base layer ( climbing, walking, paddling background ), don't forget that the primary purpose of a base layer is to keep moisture away from your skin. Unless you're travelling over water or marsh, the chance of being immersed in water is low, so choose something that you're comfortable in.
Cheers, Michael.
Karrimor long sleeve base layer or 5.11 Loose crew and Muscle Mapping T-shirt.
Depends how cold and where I am going!
Jaysurfer
18-10-2009, 01:03
Hi
If your looking for baselayers I can get you some Helly Hansen at trade price if you want?
I in-directly work for them so am happy to get you their stuff at trade - which is what it costs me + postage.
If you have a look at their website under baselayers and look at HH Warm thats a synthetic (polypropelene) and Merino Wool mix, so great breathability and wicking properties and warm.
Send me a msg if you want.
J
littlebiglane
18-10-2009, 08:52
I've just bought one of the Dutch half-wool tops http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=126&products_id=1250, as littlebiglane and redandshane have mentioned. Its excellent quality (as Dutch stuff tends to be), but I have to admit it was too itchy for me, even though I thought I was OK with wool . If you are sensitive to wool, but want something similar, you might want to try one of Endicotts Italian wool tops in green http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=1 625, which they say are 'Very comfortable to wear unless you have very sensitive skin'. At £9.95, its possibly worth having a go.
I have used the Swedish 'norgie' http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=126&products_id=1823 (which littlebiglane rightly recommends as a midlayer) as a base layer (as well as a mid-layer), and its pretty comfortable, although not really designed for it. For less than a tenner (and thats if you go for the very best grade), its excellent value.
Personally speaking, I think their French F1 'norgie' is brilliant http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=126&products_id=1561 - its cotton, and basically a bit like a rugby shirt, but its fine for summer mid-layer, you can wear it without it screaming 'surplus', and its so good my wife keeps borrowing it!
If your ordering from Endicotts, I'd suggest you just ring them and ask for their recommendations - they're extremely helpful.
PS - I've also just bought one of their 60 Pattern jackets http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=126&products_id=1780 - fantastic quality, and their service was great. Certainly an alternative to an M65 or DPM.
No connection with Endicotts, just the usual happy customer.
Of course, Cotswold currently have the full Lifa set for £30 on their website, which sounds very tempting...
I have found I have always been a 'sensitive soul' - ever since my mother made me tweed pyjamas and made me wear them for several years in winter. I can't tell you how difficult it was the first 10 minutes you got into them and got into bed!
What I have found is that wool still itches - but only for 10/15 mins when I put it on, then my skin de-sensitises and I don't notice any itching after that. Maybe its just me or its worth giving it a go for those who still avoid wool... :)
If anyone is looking for a child size pair of tweed pyjamas then just PM me ;)
w00dsmoke
18-10-2009, 14:51
I have recently aquired a set of new unissued u.s.forces polypropelene drawers and shirt.Its part of their cold weather system.IIRC its the set ive described,a fleece and matching trousers then the Goretex jacket and trousers.
They are very cheap and easy to get brand new.Kind of a light brown in colour.Very warm too!
The best bet is to buy them from US ebay and they come in many colours. I bought mine in black and you can buy them up to a 4xl if you are on the big side. They are so warm, they need to be worn to be believed. They are great sleeping garmets when out and about. Far warmer//tougher than any commercial stuff I've bought and worn in the past.
WS
Old Bones
18-10-2009, 22:41
Woodsmoke - I saw that post too, and I had a look at them on the net. The main drawback seemed to be:
A) They were generally very brown! (the black sounds much better...)
B) They didn't seem to wash very well. I spotted one soon afterwards in my local surplus place and it looked sort of dried up and melted, and Edicotts tell me they chuck up to 50% of them because of how they've been handled before they get them.
I'd be interested to know if you have any problems with washing them, and where you get them for a reasonable price (including postage, which seems to be the big cost).
Tweed pyjamas - ouch!! I thought nylon was bad....
What I have found is that wool still itches - but only for 10/15 mins when I put it on, then my skin de-sensitises and I don't notice any itching after that.
Yeah, me too. I dont have particularly sensitive skin, but I do find wool itchy for a bit till I get used to it. My theory is why bother with it? I did try wool for a bit, but I find synthetics to be more comfortable, cheaper and just as good if not better. The only real advantage with wool is it's anti-smell properties. But if you are going to be out for a week or so, either take an alum crystal or just take 2 sets of underwear - it's not that much extra to carry.
I find merino wool is all I want in cooler situations. Never have any problem with itching and really like the feeling of wool to my skin much more than synthetics.
For warm weather I wear some quick drying shirt (polyester) which is easy to wash & dry when passing a river or lake.
Would certainly try out some bamboo mix if I could get my hands on it once though, sounds like the ideal solution for hot weather...
littlebiglane
19-10-2009, 18:09
Anyone tried this stuff - made of bamboo?
http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=75&products_id=1886
I've tried many brands of wool or wool/mix baselayers and a few synthetics.
Of the wool layers: Ullfrotte 200g + 400g, Devold Expedition Series, Lundhags Izo Polo, Icebreaker 200, and the LL Bean River Driver Shirt, I would vote heavily in favour of the Ullfrotte (Woolpower) 200g crew neck base layer.
Over this I usually use a 100% wool Pendleton shirt and then a heavyweight wool sweater.
If I begin to overheat I just take the sweater or shirt off.
As for itching, there is none with the Ullfrotte so any other wool layers on top of this would not be an issue.
I don't find synthetics to be as warm but I have some HH which I find to be OK and would choose them in warmer seasons.
I would have to say that while I find the Icebreaker comfortable and odour resistant I can't say I rate it much for warmth.
I'll get around to trying Brynje one day when I can afford it.
Anyone had experience of these in comparison with Ullfrotte?
The Cumbrian
19-10-2009, 22:04
Anyone tried this stuff - made of bamboo?
http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=75&products_id=1886
I tried a bamboo base layer for the first time on Saturday. I wore a combination that works well for me when active in all but very cold conditions, which is a really thin long sleeved base layer ( bamboo this time ) and a thicker short sleeved one ( I've had a couple of Lowe Alpine t shirts for 5 years, the kind with two buttons at the neck. I wear them all through the year, alone in the summer, doubled up like this the rest of the time and they still look pretty new. They may be immortal ) under a windproof top.
I didn't notice that I was wearing it, which I think is about the best review that anything can get. It seemed to be very low friction as well, which I'll test out properly when I get home and go canoeing again, as I sometimes get chafed around the armpits when I paddle all day.
Cheers, Michael.
littlebiglane
20-10-2009, 06:55
I tried a bamboo base layer for the first time on Saturday. I wore a combination that works well for me when active in all but very cold conditions, which is a really thin long sleeved base layer ( bamboo this time ) and a thicker short sleeved one ( I've had a couple of Lowe Alpine t shirts for 5 years, the kind with two buttons at the neck. I wear them all through the year, alone in the summer, doubled up like this the rest of the time and they still look pretty new. They may be immortal ) under a windproof top.
I didn't notice that I was wearing it, which I think is about the best review that anything can get. It seemed to be very low friction as well, which I'll test out properly when I get home and go canoeing again, as I sometimes get chafed around the armpits when I paddle all day.
Cheers, Michael.
Does it get smelly like synthetics or stay fresher under the pits like wool?
LBL
Bushwhacker
20-10-2009, 08:59
Norgy top - £3 and ex-issue long johns - £4.
Job done without breaking the bank.
The Cumbrian
20-10-2009, 19:01
Does it get smelly like synthetics or stay fresher under the pits like wool?
LBL
It was very comfortable and didn't smell after one day's use. I was quite fragrant to start with though...
Norgy top - £3 and ex-issue long johns - £4.
Job done without breaking the bank.
Good pick, and these are really good too, but the price puts some off
http://www.britishmilitarysurplus.co. uk/ishop/1069/shopscr187.html
The site says used very good condition, the lot I ordered were in fact un issued.
Grooveski
20-10-2009, 19:17
Mummy got me merino last chrimo and I thank her weekly:) . I get wet a lot and hadn't realised just how good they were.
I've also got a rashy vest (http://www.kayaksandpaddles.co.uk/canoe/kayak/uk/shop/peak-uk-for-sale/rashy.htm). If you know you're going to get wet it's the next best thing to having a wetsuit on but it's the oddest sensation wearing it. Makes you cold if you're hot as well as hot if you're cold.:confused:
Makes you smell like a a very smelly thing too. Within hours - it's brutal.
Late to the party, as normal, I wear base layer gear most of the winter up here in the Highlands.
I wear a Brynje SuperThermo vest most of the winter; if doing outdoorsy stuff (Coastguard) I will probably wear a l/s net shirt, with longjohns if cold.
If it is *very* cold (below -5ºC) and blowy, I have worn merino over the top of the net stuff. But it has to be cold.
Because it's net, the insulation comes from the air, and with a decent midlayer you get good moisture transmission. It also stops your shirt sticking to you, should you sweat.
I'm a passionate advocate of this stuff, but have no connection with them.
BorderReiver
16-11-2009, 16:05
I have a drawer full of Rohan, Helly Hansen, Berghaus etc base layers.
All I wear now are my Icebreaker/Chocolate Fish bases.
Nothing else comes close for all day comfort regardless of how much sweat generated. If it gets too warm, the shirt comes off and the base suffices until I cool down.
The lack of smell is a great plus. Even after a hard day in the hills, you can sit in the pub without a large space appearing round you.:lmao:
OK it's pricey but well worth the extra, imo.
The new bamboo baselayers (eg from Endicotts) are really amazing and what has been said about no-chafing, for those of us of a paddling inclination, is absolutely true. In fact I'm off to put mine on now as it is getting cold !
NS
Cotswold Outdoor are doing the Helly Hansen polypropylene LS top and leggings (for men and women) on offer at £30 for the two. Have used HH polypropylene for about 20 years and I think they are excellent.
twisted firestarter
28-11-2009, 11:14
I've been wearing Merino over Bamboo in winter for about 3 years now and believe it's the ultimate combo. When it's really cold I add an
Angora jumper and if necessary a Pertex & Pile jacket. If you also use a deodorant stone on your pits I swear you can get away with not
changing (or your clothes becoming smelly) for over a week. I know because I've tried it ;)
TFS
Michael_palyer
22-10-2010, 15:06
i think canterbury base layers are very good
VolfYoder
05-11-2010, 19:54
I find Merino wool to be by far the best option, but admit that most 'proper' Merino wool baselayers are crazily expensive. However, here's a tip. Pop round to your local Debenhams/M&S/equivalent. They're probably selling thin, 'smart' sweaters made of 100% Merino wool, for about 35-40 quid. This is a substantial saving from the recognised brands (Woolpower, Smartwool, Icebreaker, etc), and in my experience they perform just as well as a baselayer. My 'John Rocha' sweater, bought from Debenhams a few years ago, is still going strong, despite being worn a lot under my Filson cruiser wool jacket, which, whilst being a brilliant jacket, is unlined and made of fairly rough wool, so it's usually quite tough on any sweater that's worn underneath it. Shop around and you'll be able to find some green or brown ones.