National Deer Cull [Archive] - BushcraftUK: Community Forum

jem seeley

03-01-2005, 20:14

Loads of deer here in Suffolk! I have at least 1 muntjac in the garden on a daily basis. Everywhere I go around here I always see deer,mostly roe,muntjac and reds but occassionally fallow. I've had some magical encounters and have managed to get very close not necessarily because of any special tracking skill on my part just that I've been in the right place at the right time...and managed to be very still ( actually I've found that swaying slightly works pretty well on a windy day- god knows what this looks like to anyone watching though !!)
If you look carefully at nearly any woodland in an area with a fair amount of deer you can see a quite distinct browse line. Saplings,shrubs,ground flora and trees all munched up to the height a deer can reach. With numbers of deer at an all time high this is bad news for woodland. Our local wildlife trust already has a programme of deer control in its woods but I guess these things don't tend to work unless they are coordinated.
I've mixed feelings about this one. I see the need for control but I just love seeing deer in the wild.
If more deer are to be culled we should at least be eating them. I've been buying venison from a local dealer( The Wild Meat Company ) but I think many people are very wary of anything out of the ordinary. I've presently got a nice supply of venison pluck in the freezer. Yummy.

bambodoggy

04-01-2005, 11:04

Too many deer in the UK......? ? ? ? ? Maybe this is because we shot every preditor (except humans) that these animals had......funny old world....we shoot the wolves etc and then because there's too many deer we now have to shoot them too!

Can't we just let a few wolves loose again? ? ?

Aren't there supposed to be mythic wild big cats all over the country eating these deer? ? ? :o):

tomtom

04-01-2005, 11:43

yeh there are bam, not enough though, i feel it only fair that we release a few more big predators to balance things out though! :wink:

NickBristol

04-01-2005, 12:28

The deer population has defintely taken a battering round my way recently - seen several carcasses by the sides of the road and know two people who've had a car-vs-deer encounter (deer lost both times) in the last month. Not much fun for anyone involved.

bambodoggy

04-01-2005, 12:43

This might sound morbid and horrid but I'm always on the lookout for fresh road kill dear.....it's hard to shoot in Surrey unless you have lots of money so getting hold of deer to skin, eat, use for projects etc is very hard.....road kill is one of the few legal ways I can do it.....

My wife doesn't know they are road kill......wonder where she thinks they come from!!!! lol

I can't understand anybody leaving bits behind.....after all if the deer has recked the front of your car (and they can make a terrible mess of metalwork, lights etc) then you might as well get something good out of it..... I was going to say jokingly that they are also pre-tenderised but I think that's in too bad taste! :nana:

tenbears10

04-01-2005, 13:48

I think it is illegal to collect a deer which you run over. The next person on the road can pick it up but not the person who kills it. I think this is to stop people doing it on purpose. I know what you are saying about damaging the car but some people are daft enough to run a deer over so they can take it home.

Is the cull going to be done by people working for defra or will they just employ stalkers on a part time basis?

bambodoggy

04-01-2005, 13:57

I seem to think you are right about road kill collection (it's in the Deer Act I believe).....I haven't hit one but have seen it done and it trashed a Vaxhaul Cavalier....
I think it'd be quite hard to get the deer to cross just at the right time to hit them on purpose though! :o):

As I said....I just drive about round here with one eye on the road keeping a look out for anything freshly dead.....then I stop and pick it up.....all perfectly legal and above board :nana:

tenbears10

04-01-2005, 17:17

I think it'd be quite hard to get the deer to cross just at the right time to hit them on purpose though! :o):

I was thinking the swerve method or get them with the door on the way past :wink:

Please don't think I was including you in the people trying to kill deer with their car.

There was a long discussion about this on rivercottage.net forum. It got quite heated in the end. People were saying you should not collect road kill because the animal could be diseased or poisoned or something and you might not know.

Sounds sensible to me if it is fresh then waste not want not.

Bill

bambodoggy

04-01-2005, 17:35

No worries Bill....I was just pulling your leg about getting them to line up for the drive by!!!! :o):

All fair points about poison etc but hey....just means there's more for me to pick up! :o):

And there must be ways to tell if things aren't as they should be.....smell is always a good one! But if the dear has been run over or shot then it could still be poisoned or deseased surely....it just happened to not know it's green cross code too!!!!! I always have a little looksy at the liver before I eat things anyway....

RJP

04-01-2005, 17:55

tenbears10

04-01-2005, 21:07

Just be a little bit careful with road kill venison. Some deer aren't killed by the initial impact and a vet is called who may put it to sleep with injected barbiturates. You don't want to be eating one of these!!

RJP

Fair point RJP but most (all??) vets would take the carcas away if they had put it down. They would not be allowed to leave it on the road.

RobertsonPau

04-01-2005, 21:12

tenbears10

04-01-2005, 23:17

Just my two penneth on road kills. The vet may well destroy the animal, but it is the highways deptartment of the local authority who would be responsible for removing the carcass. If it was a domestic or agricultural animal it would be the owners responsibility. I happen to deal with this as part of my current job.

Checked with my wife (who is a vet) she said it would be very unproffessional to dispatch an animal and leave it on the road. Shooting rather than lethal injection would mean it was safe to leave lying around but you would still remove it.

I can't speak for every vet obviously but unless someone from the local authority was there ready to remove the carcass then the vet would take it with them.

Bill

Emma

05-01-2005, 01:12

Just to counter that...
I have a good friend who has put down a horse that was hit by a car outside his work - he wasn't a vet, but owing to his job he had the drugs needed. They couldn't actually remove the horse. I'm not sure what happened to it after that. But there is still a chance that someone has put an animal down with poisons and had to leave it where it is... rare though that may be.

RobertsonPau

05-01-2005, 15:18

Just to shed a little more light on my original post. If the animal has been hit by a car the motorist normally contacts the local police (this is my connection in the process), who would then attend, and then liase with vets and highways. I realise that vets would normally try and remove a carcass if that was the only option, but the police would normally request highways to wash the road surface down to remove 'residue'. I wasn't suggesting that vets would in anyway act unprofessionally or inconsiderately.

The area of the UK I'm in gets a lot of road kills, as it is fairly rural and remote, and we are always dealling with them. But I never get the chance to get to them first, before they're filled with drugs and removed, I've had the odd pheasant but they usually end up very flat very quickly.

As a bit of an aside, you should see the look on a groups face when you tell them it'll be pizza for tea while scraping a hedgehog of the road.:o):

Paul

Pict

06-01-2005, 00:29

Here in Pennsylvania we are plagued with deer road kills. We have created the perfect habitat, farm fields of wheat and corn punctuated with woodlots and forested hills. The deer even eat decorative shrubs in suburbia. All of this amid a network of roads and highways. Even with a very liberal deer hunting season the population is still out of control.

We now have the "red Tag" hunt to control the population. A farmer who has extensive crop damage can apply for red tags. His farm is then put on the list for the red tag hunts. As long as he has red tags he can't refuse them to hunters who ask for them. That hunt starts in August, well before the regular deer season.

Here the game commission allows you to take road kill deer as long as you call them in and get a permit they send by mail. They just want to know who is picking up the deer.

They did pass a law that says we can't put down deer that have been hit but lots of guys still do it. The problem is that if you put it down then you have a hard time calling it in.

I had to brake hard last year to avoid hitting one just coming out from under the SUV I was following. I had a snub .38 along so I put her down, checked on the other driver and left. I had just arrived back in the country after a five year absence and didn't know we couldn't do that anymore. Oh well... It was a good thing my trunk (boot?) was full or I would have called it in and gotten into hot water over it. (The gun was legal BTW I have a carry permit for PA). That deer was gone the next morning. It's meatloaf by now. Mac

Burnt Ash

06-01-2005, 12:52

They did pass a law that says we can't put down deer that have been hit but lots of guys still do it. The problem is that if you put it down then you have a hard time calling it in.

What's the reasoning behind that, Mac? Surely, the only humane thing to do is to put down a badly wounded animal?

Burnt As

C_Claycomb

06-01-2005, 13:05

I would expect that it is prevent people saying they hit a deer when they have just shot/poached it on the verge.

(edited to remove possible erronious info)

Pict

06-01-2005, 13:26

My guess is they don't want drive-by shootings on deer that haven't been hit. Thyere was a time when there were very few laws about such things and guys used to weld iron bars on the grills and drive like maniacs down fire-breaks.

It is very common in rural areas to keep a gun in the car. We see deer all the time, almost every night if you're looking. The law now says you can't spotlight deer if there is a gun in the car.

In the case of the deer I shot it had all four legs broken and was still in the road. The night was about 15 degrees F and I couldn't watch it any longer.
I'll tell you what, a 125 grain jacketed hollowpoint does a number on them.

My brother is a police officer here and he routinely has to put deer down, and then fill out paperwork. The police like it when the deer are taken care of by citizens and nobody has to hear about it. The game commisson are pretty anal retentive about the whole thing. Its best to avoid contact with them. Mac

Burnt Ash

06-01-2005, 13:58

I think it is illegal to collect a deer which you run over. The next person on the road can pick it up but not the person who kills it.

This is an oft-repeated myth. In England and Wales (not sure about Scotland), wild animals (ferae naturae) belong to no one when they are alive. When they are dead, they belong to the owner of the land on which they died. So, if you run over and kill a deer/hare, etc., on the road, the legal owner of the corpse is the owner of the road. This, in practice, is either the Highways Agency, or a local authority. Strictly speaking, the person who hits and kills a deer with his/her car has no right to the corpse ...but neither has Eddie Grundy, or Uncle Tom Cobley, or anyone else who happens along ten minutes after the event (unless they are the legal owner of the road).

Personally, I would have no hesitation in putting down a wounded animal that I or someone else had injured on the road, provided it was within my capability
to do so. I've collected and eaten plenty of road kill in the past.

Burnt Ash

NickBristol

06-01-2005, 16:45

Burnt Ash

07-01-2005, 11:44

Does anyone know how insurance companies would treat the claim for hitting a deer? It'd be a bit rough on either the driver being left with a big bill for a damaged car, or the local authority being sued for compensation after an accident. Guess the only people who win are the insurance companies like usual...

Unless specifically excluded in the policy, the car insurer should stump up if you hit a wild animal (though this would probably affect your no-claims bonus). Remember, ferae naturae don't belong to anyone. It might be arguable, if accidents were occurring so regularly and people were losing their lives left, right and centre that the owner of adjacent land was failing in a duty of care to control numbers of wild animals proliferating on his/her land to the extent that they had become a demonstrable nuisance and hazard.

If you hit an unattended domestic animal on the road, the owner of the animal is liable for failing in his/her duty to keep the animal off the public highway.

Burnt Ash

tenbears10

07-01-2005, 11:54

Unless specifically excluded in the policy, the car insurer should stump up if you hit a wild animal (though this would probably affect your no-claims bonus). Remember, ferae naturae don't belong to anyone. It might be arguable, if accidents were occurring so regularly and people were losing their lives left, right and centre that the owner of adjacent land was failing in a duty of care to control numbers of wild animals proliferating on his/her land to the extent that they had become a demonstrable nuisance and hazard.

If you hit an unattended domestic animal on the road, the owner of the animal is liable for failing in his/her duty to keep the animal off the public highway.

Burnt Ash

However interestingly enough I have been told that if you hit a pony in the New Forest it is always the drivers fault, they have special status. I also think the pony's know this which explains why they stand in the middle of the road round a blind bend.

Bill

Lithril

07-01-2005, 11:54

Ok SWMBO topped a fox a few years back and my Grandad topped 2 foxes within a 3 week span, each time the insurance companies paid up.

bambodoggy

07-01-2005, 13:20

It might be arguable, if accidents were occurring so regularly and people were losing their lives left, right and centre that the owner of adjacent land was failing in a duty of care to control numbers of wild animals proliferating on his/her land to the extent that they had become a demonstrable nuisance and hazard.

Why do you think thee highways agency bother to put up those useless signs that warn of dear crossing..... Ah, Cynical Phil, come on in! :naughty:

If you are fully Comp then I guess they'd pay up but I'm not convinced they would if you only had thirdparty cover.

My own hound is covered with Direct Line at £11 per month for all his vet bills and being lost/stray etc and also up to £1million third part liability....hope I never have to call on it but it's nice to know I have the cover.

shinobi

07-01-2005, 13:23

If you are fully Comp then I guess they'd pay up but I'm not convinced they would if you only had thirdparty cover.

Only if you stop and exchange insurance details. :o):

Martin

Burnt Ash

07-01-2005, 13:33

If you hit an unattended domestic animal on the road, the owner of the animal is liable for failing in his/her duty to keep the animal off the public highway.

This, actually, needs further qualification. Owners of domesticated/tame animals (mansuetae naturae) have a duty to keep these animals under control. However, if you hit a cow in the road, you would still have to prove that the cow's owner had been negligent in this duty. If, for example, a farmer had taken reasonable measures to enclose and secure his livestock and then, in the middle of the night, and without his knowledge, an out-of-control vehicle had breached his fencing and allowed livestock to escape, the farmer wouldn't be held liable.

If, however, the farmer could reasonably be expected to be aware of a hole in his fence and didn't fix it in a reasonable time, the picture changes. He is then liable for damages if his cow strays onto the highway and causes an accident.

A special case applies in places like open moorland with, for example, free-ranging, unenclosed sheep, or the New Forest with its semi-wild, but owned ponies. In such places, motorists are deemed to have entered at their own risk. They are warned of the likelihood of animals on the road and unusual speed restrictions are often imposed. Even here, the case is not cut and dried: a driver might be able to demonstrate that he/she had been driving with all reasonable care, and well within speed limits, but that the sheep, pony, llama, child, etc. had run out right under the wheels of the car such that the driver could not reasonably have avoided collision.

Burnt Ash

tomtom

07-01-2005, 13:55

:offtopic:

Skippy

07-01-2005, 15:51

Although i understand the reasons behind deer culls, why are they still such protected species, if there are that many that they need culling. surely the odd deer in the larder would be welcome by a lot of Bushmen.

tomtom

07-01-2005, 16:17

if the deer population is such that they are becoming a pest then a humane cull is a good idea.. does anyone have number/area covered by this cull?

its just a shame the eco system isnt ballanced in such a way that human intervention isnt needed.

bambodoggy

07-01-2005, 16:44

its just a shame the eco system isnt ballanced in such a way that human intervention isnt needed.

Lol....it is!!!!! It's just that we tampered with it a while ago and got rid of all the nasty hurty things....like wolves and bear!!!!! :?:

tomtom

07-01-2005, 16:47

reckon we're still tampering..

george

07-01-2005, 18:49

I know it's a bit different up here, but taking a straw poll in the pub the other day, at least 50% of locals had hit a deer in the last 5 years or so. It seems to have got a lot worse in the last few years - to the point where there are some stretches of road where driving at over 40mph is taking your life in your hands at certain times of the year.

I was in a car a few years ago when we hit a stag, we were only doing about 45 (in a 60 zone) but it was enough to write off the car. I tell you, watching the antlers take out the windscreen about 2 feet from my face was pretty scarey!

A cull up here of at least 30% might help sort things out. Then keep them that way by bringing back wolves.

george

RovingArcher

07-01-2005, 21:06

When they cull a herd, do they allow hunters to come in? Or do they dispatch them in another way? If the latter, is the meat utilized?

tenbears10

07-01-2005, 21:18

Unfortunately there have been some deer culls in the UK which have appalled local stalkers and game keepers by the way they were carried out. Meat is not utilised as it should be and little respect is paid to the animals.

I will try and find the article which backs up what I just said but I think it was in shooting times magazine rather than online.

Bill

arctic hobo

07-01-2005, 21:22

Reminds me of the Italian Job quote: "You must have shot a lot of tigers sir!" "Oh yes, I use a machine gun!"
I have heard similar (obviously not that extreme) stories about culling - I guess to the authorities they need to get the animals killed quickly and above all cheaply (what do we expect in todays society :roll:), so they do it the easiest way they can.

Skippy

08-01-2005, 00:23

i'll have a couple of deer steaks if there is any going (as long as they are cheap & not dear) :roll:

RovingArcher

08-01-2005, 00:31

We had a similar circumstance happen here just recently. A group of hogs, maybe 30 or so, moved into a well to do neighborhood in Carmel. Actually they had moved into the marsh land at the mouth of the Carmel River, which is near this neighborhood. The local residents didn't want the hogs tearing up the marsh and destroying the native habitat :?: and made some calls to the state and federal offices that oversee the area and asked that they be removed, one way or another. They sent in a team of government killers who eliminated every hog with rifles shooting poisoned darts. Of course, the meat couldn't be utilized and they had to carve a road in so they could get a large truck in to pick up the bodies. :?: So much for Gov. intellegence eh? :roll:

GOD was watching and payback is a B*T*H. Plus, it brings to mind an old saying that usually rings true during hard times. "Waste not, want not".

Pict

08-01-2005, 04:44

We had a serious deer cull here in Pennsylvania a while back. The survey team determined that a certain state park could support a total of 90 deer on forest browse alone. The arial survey of the park revealed a total of over 600 deer living there. The deer would cross into farmland at night to feed and sleep it off in the park all day. Not too bad except for the fact that the park was bordered by highway on most sides. They were having about three struck a night.

They opened the park up to bowhunters with special permits and the harvested deer were all checked in at a weigh station before they left the park. Even this hunt didn't cull enough deer and the hunt has been repeated many times since.

Of course this was all protested by animal rights people. At one of the protests a woman got up and told how her husband was now paralyzed due to hitting a deer. It got pretty quiet. The anti-hunters wanted to remove deer, sterilize the deer, you name it they had a way to do it short of footing the bill. In the end the bowhunters won out, the tags were issued, the freezers filled up. Yummy!

The problem isn't that we have unbalanced nature by killing off the predators. We're still here and we can do that job just fine if allowed. The real culprit is AGRICULTURE! Once you clear a forest and plant crops the deer population explodes. In areas where there is farmland and stands of forest posted "No Hunting", that is heaven for deer. They could ask for nothing more.

Back when you guys owned Pennsylvania deer were very rare. Back then it was all forest and didn't support very many of them per square mile. Now were surrounded by them. Here in suburban south eastern PA we have them wandering across our lawns at night. I once spotted 180 of them from the car on a single night with a Q-Beam spotlight. I have a feeling they'll be with us for some time. Mac

RovingArcher

08-01-2005, 17:26

Too true Mac. One thing the *peta's* of the world don't take into consideration in the need to control populations is that man is the reason they are so high to begin with. And since most peta types are vegans, it is their food source, more than anything else, that is behind the need to control herd growth. Once we change things, it is our responsibility to make sure that their numbers don't get out of hand. Not only for us, but for them as well. As an example, with the moratorium on lion hunting and an extended period of drought here in California, herd numbers are dropping fast, so some areas are being closed to hunting and others are having their tags severely limited. In times of boom for the herds, that will change.

Something else I've considered as a reason that vegans don't like hunters, is that maybe their choice of food has changed their bodies chemically and has made them *prey* in their mindset. Prey will always fear the predator, but in humans, they have a voice and a means to change things. Totally against Nature's ways, but what about modern man living in an affluent society isn't contrary to Nature. :?:

Pict

09-01-2005, 19:15

Roving Archer,

I'm on a vegetarian diet myself... I only eat vegetarians. They taste far better then predators anyway and they are much safer to hunt. Mac

Aaron

09-01-2005, 21:16

Hi everyone, :wave:

As a Forester at an estate in Hertfordshire that has a large fallow deer population, I though that I would throw in my two cents on the topic of deer control. Like many estates around the country, the estate used to keep a managed herd of both native red deer and naturalised fallow in a large fenced portion of the estate known as a 'deer park', which allowed both the numbers and health of the deer to be carefully managed and controlled. However, like many large country estates it changed ownership a number of times during the 20th century, with the new owners at one stage seeing fit to dismantle the iron deer park fencing to sell it for scrap value, resulting in the deer herd escaping into the surrounding woodlands and multiplying beyond effective control.

This means that we now have a large wild herd in excess of 1,000 Fallow deer, which browse off ground level woodland flora, and also cause damage to crops on surrounding tenant farmland. As a result, much of the woodland on the estate has a poor habitat structure, with few emerging young trees or woodland plants that guarantee the woodland's future and provide food and shelter for birds and smaller mammals. We also have a serious problem with deer road casualties, with myself and other members of the estate management team frequently having to go out and dispatch and remove deer that have been struck by cars on roads surrounding the estate. The other week we were called out to such an instance to find another driver cramming the large Fallow buck that had been hit into the back of a Ford Ka (not the largest vehicle in the world), presumeably to take home for dinner! For anyone contemplating eating venision road kill, be aware of the fact that whilst the impact tenderises the meat, it also frequently ruptures the deers stomach, flushing the stomach acids into the meat and making it taste foul if the carcass isnt washed out (nasty!).

Although we have a really good contact deer stalker on the estate, he is only one man, and so can only relaistically achieve a certain level of control. Culling has also been disrupted in the past by the generally poor level of awareness (and in some cases ignorance) displayed by the general population surrounding deer control. Comments shouted at the deerstalker in the past include "You can't shoot deer in this country with guns its illegal", whilst he and other members of staff on the estate have also been verbally and in some cases physically threatened by people opposed to deer control. That being said, most people are pretty good once things have been explained to them: they realise that we are only seeking to control the deer population so as to achieve a working balance, not eradicate it. However, this shows the need for better education to be delivered by government agencies such as DEFRA and the Forestry Commission surrounding the problems posed by deer, and reasons for their control. :biggthump

P.S. I say reintroduce wolves they're cool

Buckshot

10-01-2005, 08:40

Your stalker doesn't need any more help does he? :o):

I agree, most of the public understand why culling should be carried out. I think the biggest problem I have is walking around the fields in full cammo gear. It can give the impression the SAS are doing an exercise.
I suppose you react to the local feeling, if there's unease in the local area about culling it's not a good idea to be fully cammo'd up just incase you meet someone. :shock:

Education is the key to most things

Cheers

Mark

Pict

17-01-2005, 12:37

This arrived today as a PS on an e-mail from my brother in Pennsylvania...

PS: Hit a deer on the way into work this morning. A Ford F150 and a 9mm Silvertip do a number. Just a small dent in my truck bumper. Taking the back straps for jerky.

Big wheels keep on rollin' in the circle of life...

Mac

Celtic Dragon

17-01-2005, 22:32

I can give a new home to a pelt or 2 if they are looking for a new home :D not to mention a bit of venison too. I don't mind acting as packhorse!!

Pict

03-02-2005, 01:04

This arrived in an e-mail from my police officer brother the other day. The prospect of fresh red meat put him on the slippery slope I'm afraid...

Last night I got a call for a deer struck on SR 84 near Strong's Garage. Someone chirped on the radio, "Go get'em." I replied "That's jerky flopping in the road." (Everyone likes my jerky.) Well I pull up to the deer...it's still alive like disoreinted. I figured it had a concussion. I let some cars go by, then I grabbed the deer by the front leg to pull it off the roadway. (I always pull them off the roadway before I shoot to prevent a pass-through ricochette.) Well I'm dragging this deer accross the snow and I'm thinking, "Yea, I'm going to take this deer...drag...drag...might as well keep dragging to the tree line, because I'll gut and hang it till morning over there...drag...drag...Huh..thi s deer's dragging kind of funny?" I look back and the deer is hobbling behind me as I'm pulling it by it's one front leg. I got startled and let go...the deer started walking away, apparently recovering from it's concussion. Now, not wanting this deer to ever make any kind of recovery...I promptly ran up to it and gave it a near contact downward shot for a double lunger. I did have my gun out when I was dragging it. I gutted it and hung it to the rear of the garage. (They let me hunt back there, so I didn't think they'd mind me hanging it overnight.) It cleaned up nice in the snow and cold (10-15 degrees). I skinned it out this afternoon and I could only find a small bruise on the butt and it had a decent head injury. Otherwise it was fine. PS: After having shot some 20-30+ road injured deer over the past 14 years (I shot 4 this year). I conclude that any pistol round 9mm, .45, .40, .38 Special, .357 Mag is plently of bullet to do a quick job on a deer provided you double lung them like an arrow. Guys insist on larger calibers (.308, .30-06, .270 etc) because they want to be able to shoot and get the deer at any angle. One well placed pistol bullet is always effective. Another note is only head/spine shot deer drop from one pistol shot. Any deer that has been able to run has run some 20 or better yards after being double lunged and they live for 2-6 minutes afterwards. Hence, anyone shot in the chest with one pistol round will continue to do what they want for 2-6 minutes. I think the comparison is fair.

Mac

DOC-CANADA

03-02-2005, 03:07

[QUOTE=Pict]This arrived today as a PS on an e-mail from my brother in Pennsylvania.... Taking the back straps for jerky.

What about the sinew?

:smile: Doc :smile:

Pict

03-02-2005, 08:47

Doc,

My brother is a traditional and primitive archer/bowhunter. He shoots four or five deer a year with a longbow. If you really work at one or two of them you get enough sinew for a long time. He has done this with several deer The last I saw in his arrowmaking stuff he had a huge ziplock full of dried sinew. It really is amazing stuff. You just get it wet in our mouth and wrap it on. It dries tight and hard. It will come unglued if it gets wet though.

None of the deer he gets are wasted. He gives away a lot of meat every year as his family is still small. If he only took the backstraps off a deer that was all there was worth taking.

By the way, the deer in the above posted story had a broken jaw and would not have lasted the winter. Mac