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Paul64
31-07-2009, 14:54
Hi,

Finally I found a stone in Transylvania to sharpen my knife properly. Previously I have been using a rough scythe stone, but it was hard to get a good edge. My new Aluminium oxide stone has a two sides, one smoother than the other. What would you say is best to use on the stone as there seems to be many differing opinions on the subject, like straight bike chain oil, WD40 and water? For instance why would you use oil in preference to water and vice versa? The oval stone in the photo below is the old scythe stone.

Best wishes, Paul

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q265/pdwhite/blog/Wild%20Camping/DSC02474600x450.jpg

born2roam
31-07-2009, 15:04
Paul,

from what I gathered, once you use oil on your stones there is no getting back (being saturated, water won't replace the oil... the other way around yes...), so you might wanna start with traying water.

The oil/water soak up in the stones so the debris from your knife (metal parts) wont clogg up (spelling?) the space between the stone particles, which do the work in sharpening your knife.

I switched to a DC4 some time ago, but when sharpening my parang, axe or kukri I, most of the time will use an old water stone (from a Guatemalan shop) or a Lansky puck.

If feeling extremely lucky I ask a mate of mine if I can use his Japanes waterstones, hoping he will even do the sharpening for me ;-)

Water is most of the times more readily available then oil.....

Grtz Johan

PS: that two sided stone looks like the cheap one I got in Guatemala and works perfectly for me...

sandbender
31-07-2009, 15:06
Hello Paul

Water stones are quite a different beast, if you have an oilstone (did the packaging identify it as such?) then you should stick with oil.

Another option would be to check out British Red's thread (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11571) on building your own £5 sharpening kit. :D

Martyn
31-07-2009, 15:15
Water stones are quite a soft matrix. When soaked in water and then rubbed with something like a knife, a water+stone slurry is formed on top of the waterstone. It's this slurry that cuts the metal and sharpens the knife. Putting oil onto a water stone will inhibit this process and ruin the stone.

Oilstones are different, they are much harder and the oil is used as a lubricant to smooth the passing of the knife over the stone matrix and to stop it clogging, which mostly remains intact and just grinds the metal down. WD40, oil, water, whatever wont make any difference to it, just use whatever you prefer.

Oilstoone: Use oil, WD40 or whatever.
Waterstone: Use ONLY water.

Paul64
31-07-2009, 15:23
Hi and thanks,

It only has aluminium oxide sharpening stone written on the packaging. Can this type of stone be used with both oil or water?

sandbender
31-07-2009, 15:32
Hi and thanks,

It only has aluminium oxide sharpening stone written on the packaging. Can this type of stone be used with both oil or water?

Oil only I would think, an aluminum oxide stone is likely too hard to produce a slurry, if you are up country and don't have oil to hand then water can be used and this will not prevent you using oil again when you get home. :)

Martyn
31-07-2009, 15:43
Hi and thanks,

It only has aluminium oxide sharpening stone written on the packaging. Can this type of stone be used with both oil or water?

It's not a waterstone so you can use anything you like. Even dry (though it wont cut well for long). The purpose of the lubricant on this stone, is to stop metal particles from clogging the surface of the stone and killing the abrasive qualities. It wont make a cutting slurry like a waterstone, so it doesnt matter what you use. Water would work, thin machine oil would be better, 3in1 or similar, if you dont have any, try paraffin (kerosene). Anything that stops the surface of the stone getting clogged or "glazing" with metal particles.

Paul64
31-07-2009, 17:06
Thanks for all this useful information!
Best wishes, Paul

8thsinner
01-08-2009, 00:54
According to the rupted king of sharpening, Mr Janich, it is not recommended that you use oil. He basically states that the knife will stay sharper longer if you do not, basing this on the opinions a professional team of butchers he worked with whilst compiling his book...

Martyn
01-08-2009, 05:44
According to the rupted king of sharpening, Mr Janich, it is not recommended that you use oil. He basically states that the knife will stay sharper longer if you do not, basing this on the opinions a professional team of butchers he worked with whilst compiling his book...

Eh? It's just metal. The method used to get it sharp, wont have any affect on how long it stays sharp.

8thsinner
01-08-2009, 16:13
You would think so, but check the book...

oetzi
01-08-2009, 17:42
If its a new stone, you can choose either.
Water is much less of a mess than oil. I made the switch many years ago, after more than ten years of oil on stone and never regretted it.
If you already used oil, you are stuck with it, unless you remove a couple of millimeter from the stones surface.
The difference being, you choose between an oily or a watery mess.
That said, the stones I used with oil were incredibly hard and took ages to sharpen any given steel, being the "Arkansas/Nebraska"-type, which traditionally was used with oil.
When switching over to japanese waterstones, I also began to use water for "lubrication".
These stones are very soft and behave differently, one has to try it.
Having a look at the presumly rather coarse combination stone of yours, I would say for finishing get an additional synthetic japanese stone of ca 1000grid, like the brown ones from King.
They are incredibly good value for money and with a grid 1000 you get a blade shaving sharp.
Read more here:
http://www.fine-tools.com/king-stones.html

Shinken
01-08-2009, 18:23
Use oil on your stone mate, if you get a waterstone use water on that.

Oil does a better job on a stone like you have than water does

Paul64
01-08-2009, 20:09
Thanks for all this information. I am limited to what I can get hold of as locals tend to use alu ox only for just about everything. I think I would get the blank stare if I went into a shop and asked for a Japanese water stone! However, the next time I am on a rare visit to the UK I will look for one.

Are these water stones expensive?

Best wishes, Paul

sandbender
01-08-2009, 20:20
I know for a fact you can pick up wet and dry paper (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11571) there.


Are these water stones expensive?

Not so expensive no, see some prices here (http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Sun-Tiger-Traditional-Shaped-Water-Slip-Stones-23399.htm).

:)

Paul64
09-08-2009, 07:45
I know for a fact you can pick up wet and dry paper (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11571) there!

Not so expensive no, see some prices here (http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Sun-Tiger-Traditional-Shaped-Water-Slip-Stones-23399.htm).

:)

Thanks for this great information but sorry for the delay in replying:( I am subscribed to this thread but never received an email :(

I have just had a look at the company that sells the water stones, and they supply to the EU, which is very good news.

Best wishes, Paul

Dave Budd
09-08-2009, 10:30
it looks like the stone you have there is an oil stone. OIl stones are almost always shades of grey/brown, whereas waterstones are a wide range of colours (though not grey) ;)

If you use water with it then you will most likely find that the stone is too porous and the water drops straight through. Try it anyway because once you've started with oil you con't go back!

If you go with oil then a nice light mix such as thin machine oil or oil thinned with deisel works well, or just go and buy some honing oil. :)

I personally prefer waterstones over oil stones. They are cleaner (no oil to wash off), they are available in a wider range of grit sizes and though they are softer (so wear out more quickly) they are also much quicker and easier to true up regularly.

Paul64
09-08-2009, 17:57
Thanks for the information Dave,

I have already used oil on my stone so I shall probably wait now until I get a water stone. I take it if there are different grit size stones that you would need more than one? Or would you get one and then finish off with paper?

Best wishes, Paul

Dave Budd
09-08-2009, 20:14
depends on the stones you have and the edge that you want ;)

the most common combination stones here (waterstones that is) are 250&1000 and 1000&6000 grit, then single grit sizes from about 120 up to 30000.

For most sharpening teh first combination 250/1000 is best, but for tools that require a fine push cutting edge (such as chisels, carving knives, etc) the 1000/6000 will finish things off. Get a strop together too, it makes the world of difference (simple bit of leather glued to a board and coated with polishing/honig paste)

Paul64
09-08-2009, 21:26
Thanks for the extra information Dave. I was looking through your website and this gave me an idea which I totally forgot about. The reminder came after reading that you make tools for craftsman and that reminded me that I went to see a very well known local carpenter last year. I may go and ask him where he gets his sharpening stones from.

Coincidently, he had a lovely looking set of chisels on his workbench which had been in his family for more than a hundred years. When I asked him where they were made, he replied "Sheffield of course!"

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q265/pdwhite/blog/Crafts/DSC04439600x450.jpg