Rat knives

[Sussex Man]

Sorry if there is a thread on RAT knives, could someone enlighten me on the differance of Ontario and rat knives? Also can't seem to find anyone (sensible) reveiwing them- what do you guys think, go for one (im looking for a super tough knife) or an Enzo?
Many thanks..

[malente]

Re difference: Have you looked up the respective websites? They seem to be different knives / brands. http://www.ontarioknife.com/ and http://www.ratcutlery.com/

Re review, toughtness: Look up some vids on youtube by a guy called 'noss4'.

That might give you an idea about the toughness aspect of the knives (though maybe only limited info on usability?). From these vids, Busse knives seem to be tough (tough on the wallet too).

Regarding a less destructive and general purpose review, some vids by a guy called 'nutnfancy' might give an impression. Slightly skewed towards the military.

Hope that helps.

What purpose is the knife going to serve?

Mike

[HillBill]

Sorry if there is a thread on RAT knives, could someone enlighten me on the differance of Ontario and rat knives? Also can't seem to find anyone (sensible) reveiwing them- what do you guys think, go for one (im looking for a super tough knife) or an Enzo?
Many thanks..

If you want a tough knife then fallkniven are worth considering. The F1 or S1.

[malente]

If you want a tough knife then fallkniven are worth considering. The F1 or S1.

Yes, almost forgot, +1 for the F1. I got one :D

[MikeDB]

Yep, check out the websites and the RAT forum, plenty of supporters.

They are, for the money very well made and very strong. Not the sharpest 'out of the box' knife I've owned but will take a very good edge with a little work.

Looks wise it's all down to what you want, personally some of the RATs are a little too military for my taste as a user though.

The Izula is a nice small and very strong back-up/secondary knife, especially when you cord wrap the handle although I didn't bother.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d198/MikeBuckley/DSCF4689.jpg

The RC4 is closer to a general useage size, quite thick at 4mm but then so is a Woodlore or for that matter an F1.

I found it a little too uncomfortable in handle shape and also a little shor in the handle. The huge choil was just a pain.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d198/MikeBuckley/DSCF4697.jpg

The RC3 is pretty similar although a tad shorter with the addition of an uncomfortable er, glass breaker :rolleyes:

The RC5 is a beast. Built to survive a direct thermo nuclear blast and slay zombies. 5mm of sharpened prybar with over thick handle ergonomics and heavy but I guess it's looks float some peoples boats.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d198/MikeBuckley/DSCF4682.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d198/MikeBuckley/DSCF4684.jpg

They are however all well made from a reasonable cutlery steel that isn't too bad to sharpen in the field and will take a good edge plus RAT do offer one of the industies best guarantees should you do something totally stupid with your knife.

From a personal point of view as a collector they were interesting (although no longer owned), as a user I'd get an Enzo.

Hope some of that helps.

Cheers
Mike

[Draven]

What do you mean by "super tough"? It's a pretty ambiguous term. What do you intend to use it for? Food prep, battoning wood, lifting paving slabs, cutting through car roofs?

The enzo is doubtless a tough knife, plenty tough enough for what I need. IMO the toughest a knife would ever need to be is tough enough to split and chop, and even that, only for a big knife. Again, IMO. My Enzo can split wood just fine, but it would be advisable to get one with the small secondary bevel and keep it that way if you want it to be as tough as it can be... it would help to know what you want it for, though.

Pete

[markheolddu]

Ontario used to make knives for Randall adventure training RAT, they had a falling out and Ontario continued to manufacture and sell the RAt designed knives. Rat now get their knives made by Rowen. The RATs carry a much better guarantee than the Ontarios do.

Mark

[Sussex Man]

Fantastic, thank you very much for all of your replies, im sorry to have been so brief- just leaving work. Anyway, I have been looking for a rough use knife- ive got Bison and love it to death, so i was thinking, i run a shoot with some pals and were often doing building/woodland work etc. I have seen the ridiculous reviews on knife tests (funny though). I don't want to ruin my pride and joy and like the look of the utility knives from rat. Am i better off getting a rc-4, a enzo trakker (i might get a bit precious cause i love em) or something like a MOD brute? I also want the knife for canoeing, swimming/diving with, lending to the odd mate to cut something ( you know that type of heavy handed bloke)- basically has to be strong, good sheath (pref not leather) but must stay very sharp and very reliable.(its going to get battered)

I have looked at Fallkniven, but with so many poor reviews about the handles I've been put off :(

Help me please !

[malente]

Sounds like the Glock field knife might be an option. Cheap, rugged, but strong.

[rg598]

The story is that RAT (Randal’s Adventure and Training) had contracted with Ontario, to produce their knives-the RAT series. The knives were produced with names such as RAT 3, RAT 7, etc. At some point RAT (Randal’s Adventure and Training) started making their own knives. Ontario sued them over the use of the “RAT” name. That is why now RAT (Randal’s Adventure and Training) produces their knives under the RC name, i.e. RC3, RC4, RC6, etc. The knives look about the same, with minor differences. The consensus seems to be that the RC knives are a bit better than the RAT knives by Ontario, but I am not sure by how much. A lot of the talk about which is better is colored by the hatred many people have against Ontario for suing RAT (Randal’s Adventure and Training).

In my opinion you can not go wrong with a RAT or RC knife. If you have the money you should go with RC for the better customer service. They are very tough knives. I have put mine through some heavy use without any problem. They are certainly tougher than the ENZO knives. In fact, the ENZO site has a link to an article comparing the Trapper to a RAT 3, I believe. The article reaches the same conclusion-the RAT is a tougher knife.

Depending on what knife you are using now, the RAT/RC knives might take some getting use to. The handle, while tougher, is about the same in design as a Falkniven. The reason why I switched to a Falkniven is that I found the blade to be too wide for the way I was using it-just a personal preference. The edge on a RAT/RC is tougher than that of a Falkniven, but probably does not hold an edge as long-I’ve never had a problem with it.

[Black Sheep]

I like the look of the IZULA, does anyone know of a UK stockiest?

Cheers

Richard

[scottishwolf]

I like the look of the IZULA, does anyone know of a UK stockiest?

Cheers

Richard

Here ya go mate... http://www.heinnie.com/t8d7o7183007/Knives/R.A.T.-Cutlery/c-1-92-421/

[Black Sheep]

Here ya go mate... http://www.heinnie.com/t8d7o7183007/Knives/R.A.T.-Cutlery/c-1-92-421/

Cheers, Just need to find some pennies know;)

Richard

[Tye Possum]

I've been thinking of getting an RC-4 recently, partly because I would like a strong knife that I'm not afraid to really use, partly due to my frustrating lack of ability in sharpening scandi ground knives (with micro bevels) but that choil really put me off. From video reviews I've seen it's too small to wrap all but the tip of your finger around without getting cut (maybe not though depending on your finger size) and so just leaves a big gap there that stops you from having as much control over the blade that you would on other knives. Guess I'll just have to keep practising my sharpening...

[Goatboy]

If you fancey something "mentalist" tough that takes abuse and don't want to thrash out the cash then you could have a look at these? - http://www.coldsteel-uk.com/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f %2fwww%2ecoldsteel%2duk%2ecom% 2fstore%2fFixed%2dBlade%2dKniv es%2ehtml&WD=bushman&PN=Bushman%2dSeries%2ehtml%23a 95BUSS#a95BUSS
Don't own one but they are stuff of legend, I use a billhook instead but do fancy spending the £25 to see if the youtube vids are correct.
Goatboy.

[Native Justice]

For that kind of use you're looking for something like this

http://www.heinnie.com/cfditl186066/Knives/BK&T/Becker-Companion/p-92-537-3674/

or this:

http://www.heinnie.com/cfditl186066/Knives/BK&T/Becker-Necker/p-92-537-3672/

They're inexpensive, bomb proof, can hold an edge, easily resharpenable, and will take whatever you throw at it with a smile. The scales come off the Companion so you can make your own to replace at your fancy.

My preference was this knife and you might want to give it strong consideration as well:

http://www.heinnie.com/cfditl186066/Knives/Benchmade/Benchmade-Fixed-Griptilian/p-92-111-3109/

Good luck.

[moab]

I like the look of the IZULA, does anyone know of a UK stockiest?

Cheers

Richard

I've just received my Izula from Heinnies, they managed to get some without the horrid "survival" kit included.

I'm pleased with mine and found that if you take the orange end off the light my fire mini steel you can cord wrap it inside the handle with no change to the profile of the knife and hey presto a mini knife and steel kit

ATB

[woodwalker1987]

If you fancey something "mentalist" tough that takes abuse and don't want to thrash out the cash then you could have a look at these? - http://www.coldsteel-uk.com/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f %2fwww%2ecoldsteel%2duk%2ecom% 2fstore%2fFixed%2dBlade%2dKniv es%2ehtml&WD=bushman&PN=Bushman%2dSeries%2ehtml%23a 95BUSS#a95BUSS
Don't own one but they are stuff of legend, I use a billhook instead but do fancy spending the £25 to see if the youtube vids are correct.
Goatboy.

I got a cold steel bushman a while back, the bowie pattern and it is awesome...freakin crazy tough, holds a wicked edge, shaving sharp straight out the box and has proven to be bloomin useful so far! i use it as a general 'camp knife' for various bits and bobs from chopping food to making stakes and it chops bigger stuff with ease, was very pleasantly surprised with it!

[wentworth]

I have a RC-4. I like the blade, but the choil and handle are awful. Awful.
Go a Fallkniven F1

[Landy_Dom]

Fallkniven F1 is an ace bit of kit and really tough.

Less "tacticool" than some of the more military styled ones too - a bit less conspicuously rambo :pokenest:

I'd really recommend the F1

Dom.

[Aussiepom]

I have an RC4, (manufactured by Rowen in the USA), and a Rat4, (manufactured by Ontario, also in the USA.) The RC4 is without doubt a better quality product in terms of fit and finish. The handle ergonomics, although poor, are also far superior to the Rat4's. Yes the Rat4's really are that bad.

The plastic (kydex?) sheath of the RC4 is in a different league to the Rat4's crap nylon effort and is indeed probably as good as any kydex sheath that I have seen.

The only area where I would say the Rat4 has an advantage is in the blade's protective, (corrosion protection), coating. It appears to be some kind of phosphating - a chemical process - but I could be wrong. You are still able to produce sparks from a ferro rod with the coating in place. The RC4 has what appears to be a powder coating - kind of like a baked enamel coating - but again I could be wrong. You can't strike sparks with this coating in place, however it would be easy enough to scrape/file off the coating in a suitable spot.

RAT offer a no questions asked guarantee on their products manufactured by Rowen. Don't know what Ontario's guarantee is.

The RC4 has it's flaws, but is no doubt good value for money. It's a mass produced knife, but neither the handle ergonomics nor the factory edge prevented me from being able to produce feathers that were fine enough to catch the spark from a ferro rod, without resorting to the aid of any other tinder, (I had to use a different knife to produce the sparks though!)

Having said all of the above, I would also recommend that you get an F1 instead. I personally don't think the handle ergonomics are that bad, (I probably have smaller than average hands, if that makes any difference). Some say that the deep chequering can produce hot spots or blisters, but I myself am not a woodworker so I don't spend hours at a time carving. The most I would do at any one time would be to knock up some tent pegs, make a pot holder and split/feather some wood and so far I haven't experienced any soreness, (and I'm a desk jockey, not a brickies labourer, so I have what you would call soft hands.)

It's all personal preference, but I hope this helps you make a decision.

[Tye Possum]

I've actually bought an RC-4 since I posted on this thread, also stopped trying to sharpen those dang micro bevels on scandies but anywho.

I haven't gotten a chance to use this knife out in the woods yet but I'm still liking it so far. I'm sure there'll be some hot spots on the handle but if other people can get past that then I should be able to as well.
The choil isn't really bothering me anymore, I haven't used it much but I used to use a Buck vanguard which had a similar sized choil so I'm sort of used to it, it's actually a little bigger than I thought so I'm able to wrap more of my finger around it and it makes it more controllable yet I don't really notice it when I'm not using it, but like I said maybe I'm just used to having one.

The kydex sheath is nice, it's my first kydex sheath so I can't really compare it to other ones but it definately seems stronger than the plastic sheaths I have. My only worry about it is I've heard kydex gets brittle in -20 degree weather which we get where I live.

So basically I've changed my mind about knives. Instead of using a puukko (like an enzo) for everything because it cuts wood so much better I've decided to use a tougher, more all around knife as my main belt knife and a pocket knife or scandi ground carving knife for the detailed stuff. That way I can get the advantages of a zero ground scandi when using it on more detailed work (not to mention ease of sharpening) but not have to worry about chipping it when I use it for the hard stuff. Maybe this would work for others too.

Anyway, if the OP is still interested in advice, I'd say the RC-4 could make a good, tough, all around knife (maybe pair it with a smaller, sharper knife for detail work), but I could be wrong since I haven't used it much, but seeing what others have done with theirs, I can tell you that it's a tough knife. Even if you break it somehow, you can get a replacement because of the great warranty. I've also thought that if the handle scales prove to be too uncomfortable, then maybe you could get some custom ones made.

Oh and important note, Rat Cutlery has changed their name to ESEE Knives, it's still the same people running it and they're still making the same knives but they just wanted to get away from the whole RAT, RC confusion, here's their new site: http://www.eseeknives.com/

[Mountainwalker]

tough knife that's easy on the wallet ka-bar becker bk2.