View Full Version : veggi food for longer trip
I'm sure you've all had a look at the trip planned for 2006 going down a river in Norway. I'd love to go but there is a huge problem when it comes to food.
There are a few different dehydrated buger mixes around that keep a long time and are easy to cook but the space and weight involved in carring a months supply is out of the question.
Does anybody have any ideas?
Paganwolf
13-12-2004, 15:59
I'm sure you've all had a look at the trip planned for 2006 going down a river in Norway. I'd love to go but there is a huge problem when it comes to food.
There are a few different dehydrated buger mixes around that keep a long time and are easy to cook but the space and weight involved in carring a months supply is out of the question.
Does anybody have any ideas?
Dont like the sound of dehydrated Buger :shock: :wink: you can get dehydrated Onion,peppers and mushrooms from ASDA these are quite good mixed up with other stuff, or dehydrated soya mixes with spices added ."Raven" also do dehydrated packet meals suitable for vegetarians they do breakfast,main meals and sweets, lived on them in Borneo for a while on them they're not bad but needed chilli sauce IMO :wink:
the burger mix is what I'm thinking about. They do taste much better with otherstuff added.
I think it would be good to have some for emergency lack of food for other people.
arctic hobo
13-12-2004, 17:13
I'm sure you've all had a look at the trip planned for 2006 going down a river in Norway.
You mean Sweden :roll: :wink: Or rather, Norway then Sweden then the Sweden/Finland border :o):
I've thought of emergency food but it'd be very meat based.
You can theoretically dry anything out to make it small and light for portage. Take a look at the menu at www.tilltopps.com. It will at least give you inspiration if not any actual foods. :biggthump
Lentils in all their forms would probably be a good choice andy. Full of protein and other yummy goodness and not a bad weight to usability factor. And very cheap if you buy from an Asian shop. If you use split lentils with some dried onion and chillies, and an indian spices flavoured stock cube (plus maybe a dash of garam masala at the end) you can whiz up a dhal in the same time it takes the accompanying rice to cook. Stick any greens you can find on a grill over your boiling pan and they will steam. Hey presto! Dinner! Obviously goes well with chapatis too, which are the easiest bread to cook in camp.
It serves as the everyday diet for about a billion people in India so I reckon it should keep you going for a month!
:biggthump
Danzo
Was also going to suggest lentils. But you should get used to the flavour before going!
Also, you can have a sort of lentil bolognese if you take spaghetti or noodles, and flavour the lentils with a packet of tomato cup-a-soup.
If you want to take nuts (and aren't allergic to them) then I can give you my nut stir-fry recipe, and apparently walnuts and spaghetti is quite nice.
I could also suggest cous-cous. I haven't read through the thread, but if you are planning to stop anywhere for a day then you can take some dried beans, soak them during the day and have a stew with some other veg, tomato puree (with mixed herbs or cumin and paprika) and pasta or rice, or a stir-fry.
Actually, as you're in a canoe, you can soak during the day anyway if you take a box with a water-tight lid.
That's all I can think of right now.
I just remembered, there's also some stuff called IVP I think? Or something like that that is dehydrated. I haven't used the stuff much, but from recollection it can be used pretty much as meat when prepared (mince, stew, fry), though I forget whether it needs to be soaked or boiled to prepare it... sorry I can't be more helpful.
I lived off lentils for 9years. How could I have forgotton them. I do miss my mums cooking (and her ability to creat bits for bushcraft).
I feel like braking into song
my paddles clean and bright flashing like silver,
Follow the wild goose flght dip dip ans swing
dip dip and swing
which reminds me someone was talking about food by a riverside which was that again? Would it help up on the trip
Lots of mushrooms dry really well. They'll need to be soaked but the water can be used as a stock. If you wizz the dried mushrooms in a blender before you go they'll take up a very little space and you can just bung in a couple of spoonfuls into stews without the need to soak them first.
I lived off lentils for 9years. How could I have forgotton them.
Good! I remember introducing one of my sisters to them in the field. She wasn't impressed...
arctic hobo
13-12-2004, 22:17
I just remembered, there's also some stuff called IVP I think? Or something like that that is dehydrated. I haven't used the stuff much, but from recollection it can be used pretty much as meat when prepared (mince, stew, fry), though I forget whether it needs to be soaked or boiled to prepare it... sorry I can't be more helpful.
I know the one - TVP (had two vege sisters). It's nice and as you say can be treated just like meat. Small and very light too.
TVP for thoughs reading this thread that don't know stands for totaly vegan protein. Sos mix is one example of this to give an idea of weight a packed of 385g makes about a kilo of stuff when miced with water.
Don't forget the levels to which you can supplement your diet from wild foods on such trips - I often carry as little as 50% of what I expect to eat if I'm ot and about and let nature fill in the rest.
Even if you're not someone who knows a lot of plants, the really obvious ones like nettles, blackberries/raspberries etc can add a lot to your diet!
Dare i ask.. is wild fresh caught salmon a nono :nono: ? im just interested!
I do miss my mums cooking (and her ability to creat bits for bushcraft).Have you asked your mum for ideas? :-)
Long shot, but I reckon you could do a nut roast in a similar way to baking a potato in a campfire.
Dare i ask.. is wild fresh caught salmon a nono :nono: ? im just interested!
I would much rather not eat it.
On the odd ocations where I've had meat/fish by mistake I then feel ill a while later.
arctic hobo
14-12-2004, 16:52
TVP for thoughs reading this thread that don't know stands for totaly vegan protein. Sos mix is one example of this to give an idea of weight a packed of 385g makes about a kilo of stuff when miced with water.
Or even textured vegetable protein?
Approximately how much space will you have Andy?
arctic hobo
15-12-2004, 22:41
I can answer that. Not much really, but it's limited more by weight than volume. :wave:
My plan was to fill up any spare volume and carry as much weight as possible. As far as walking goes my body seems to take it rather well.
You could come too after all two veggies are better then one (plus yuo sound like you are a better cook then me)
I'd love to, but I just don't have the money.
And as for my cooking... I can follow recipes, I know which bits I can skimp on and which to replace with cheaper items, and I can make sure it's still edible and even tastes almost OK after that. I wouldn't say I was actually good at it. ;) I currently eat to survive rather than to enjoy the taste.
You should probably do a bit more cooking before going. :-)
How much weight can you take? A whole month's supply is a lot when you're not hunting...
I'd love to, but I just don't have the money.
I don't either but to hell with it we're young and free
I wouldn't say I was actually good at it. ;) please note use of word better :roll:
How much weight can you take? A whole month's supply is a lot when you're not hunting...
I don't really know.
Does anyone know what sort of beans and buts you can buy up there. broths would keep me going ok
bambodoggy
16-12-2004, 15:36
Andy, sorry Mate...I've just spent the last two and a half hours looking up info on foraging for veggies in Scandanavia (that's veggie foraging not actually seeking out veggies! :o): ) all over Google and I can't find a thing!
I did find loads of other interesting stuff but nothing to help answer how much we'd all be able to find to eat on top of what us corpse crunchers can pull out of the river.....if we catch nothing we'll all be in the same boat....so to speak!!! lol :rolmao:
I'm still not convinced it's going to be an issue for you....meat based dishes are just as heavy so you should be ok with dried veggie stuff.
As regards to what you can carry....a rough guide is not to try to carry more than a third of your body weight.....that's not to say that you can't carry a lot more but this is supposed to be enjoyable! If you're a young strong fit lad and have trained you may be able to comfortably move this up to half your body weight (hope that's not patronising but I have no idea what you look like or have done exercise wise!!!).
I'll keep looking for the veggie foraging as there must be stuff out there but just no luck so far Mate!
Dunno how you'll feel about this next suggestion andy, but in Mr Mears programme about the real Heroes of Telemark he described how they ate the contents of the stomachs of the reindeer they killed to get their vegetable intake...........
:shock:
Danzo
Paganwolf
17-12-2004, 12:38
Dunno how you'll feel about this next suggestion andy, but in Mr Mears programme about the real Heroes of Telemark he described how they ate the contents of the stomachs of the reindeer they killed to get their vegetable intake...........
:shock:
Danzo
Kill an animal to get a veggi meal Hmmmmmmmmmm me thinks reindeer bile will be off the menu some how :rolmao: :wink:
bambodoggy
17-12-2004, 12:57
:rolmao: That's soooo funny! I can see exactly where Danzo is coming from and it's just the sort of suggestion I tend to make.... but it does slightly defeat the object of being a veggie doesn't it? :o):
That's so cheered me up! :lol:
I don't think any of us will be killing Reindeer (permits, weapons issues etc) but if we did and we eat the meat....Andy would you try the tummy fudge then?
I'm still searching the web for info on foraging.....reindeer moss is all I can find so far!!!!
Paganwolf
17-12-2004, 13:15
tummy fudge!! :rolmao: :rolmao: :rolmao: :rolmao: :You_Rock_
arctic hobo
17-12-2004, 14:04
If you're up for surviving on rather nasty vegetables that will keep you alive but not much more, you can boil every plant you find. Sometimes only the stalk is worth eating, but there's plenty of tasteless tough vegetation if you want it! And tundra berries, which are nice, but quickly rather boring. This is based on my experience in land that is similar but with less trees, so maybe there will be a few more interesting things :?:
bambodoggy
17-12-2004, 14:27
Lol...let's hope so or we'll all get pretty bored of Salmon pretty soon and the veggies even sooner! :lol:
Can any of our Scandinavian member help us out a little here with their knowledge? ? ? Pretty please....Gerd, viking and the others? ? ?
Hi Andy,
I hope this is helpful and not patronising, but then, (I think it was Bambodoggy who said this first), I don't know what you know already.
Maybe we could look at it from a different angle and ask the question what will your body really need during the trip?
Assuming that (with the exception of animal / bird / fish flesh) you will be eating more or less the same as everyone else does, and that they will all be getting a fairly balanced diet, then all you are missing is a couple of hundred grams of protein a day. This is not so big a deal if you are watching tv on the sofa all day, but if you are man-hauling heavy packs across vast distances you are going to really need to ensure your protein intake is up their with everyone elses. You'll also be consuming more food in general than you normally would.
I am assuming that you are veggie and not vegan? If so then you should try to make sure there was at least some milk / cheese / eggs in your diet at regular intervals, and preferably in good sized portions.
Vegetable protein can be obtained by mixing grains and beans or lentils or nuts. This ensures that you get all 8 essential amino acids, though you'll need to eat more than the carnivors to get enough protein. But go easy on the nuts, it's not so great to eat more than a few handfuls a day as they're 50% fat. Same goes for the cheese.
I would also consider taking some of the protein supplements that body builders use. You can buy them in big tubs of powder and in the form of chocolate bars. This could be a useful addition to your diet and many of them are veggie as they are mostly whey.
If I was doing the trip I would be looking at this kind of stuff:
Breakfast: Some kind of porridge with dried or fresh fruit and nuts, can be made with milk and you could add a boiled egg or two to the menu.
Lunch: Eggs or cheese with some kind of bread.
Dinner: Rice with beans or lentils and vegetables.
Snacks: Anything high in energy and in protein. (Meusli bars / snickers cruncher / chocolate).
Of course there are a hundred different variations on this theme but it's basically 40% grains (carbohydrate), 30% Eggs/cheese/nuts/beans/lentils (protein) and the rest fruit and vegetables. (Vitamins and minerals).
To add some more detail, most of the common veggie burgers / sosmix / TVP etc would all come under 'beans' because they're mostly made from soya.
So, if that's what's good to eat. How are you going to get it?
Well, I'm no expert but I'm guessing that like most things it's going to have to be a compromise. You'll probably have to carry a lot, be flexible about what you eat, and use every available opportunity to stock up.
Finally, if you can get hold of an army veggie 24 hour ration pack at least you 'll know what they survive on. Though there's no chance of carrying 30 of them as they weigh a fair bit :wink:
arctic hobo
17-12-2004, 20:15
Thanks Tom, I think you had advice for us all in there. :biggthump
As regards bodybuilder supplements, on the advice of a friend I once took creatine monohydrate while training for an expedition, and when on the expedition. I'm a bit skeptical as to how healthy they are, but I can definitely recommend it. It gave me a lot more 'go', and motivation, although I can't say I noticed my muscles getting any bigger! It tastes quite nice too - I was taking powder mixed with fruit juice four times a day.
Thanks a lot Zen and everyone else . It's been really helpful. My trick with cooking is that if it tastes ok eat it and if it doesn't add tabasco source and then eat. I guess a couple of kilos would be ok to carry above other people.
I'm guessing we'll have to buy a few things along the way so I'll keep an eye out for beans.
I can keep a diet going for a normal life without any problems and I just used to add more protein and carbs when biking. This is a lot more prolonged though so I was a bit unsure.
I just rememberd that my brother in law used to be veggi and since he's been a canoe instructer he'll be able to help out.
Guys it looks like yuo get my humour for the whole trip :o):
GREAT NEWS Andy.
Must admit protein isn't too difficult to find in the wild (not including meat) its carbs that I think are going to take up the bulk of any food we take.
YAY
I've talked to my folks about this and they haven't once suggested I don't go. My dad sems to like the idea of fresh samon though.
arctic hobo
18-12-2004, 18:50
Fantastico! :o):
ChrisKavanaugh
19-12-2004, 02:26
I missed if your vegan or vegetarian :?: How MUCH you consume is only matched by WHEN you consume it. If dairy is allowed add a big spooonfull of butter to your evening tea. This little booster will keep your sleeping metabolism nice and warm. People also tend to become dehydrated in cold weather, mug up frequently.
I just remembered, there's also some stuff called IVP I think?
Yup - it's TVP or Textured Vegetable Protein. It's like dehydrated mince meat an is pretty good for bulking up meals.
I lived for 3 months on the 4 vegetarian options of US army MREs (Meal Ready to Eat) in Spring 2003 but, while the food is good, they are bulky and heavy for what you get and with a huge amount of waste to carry/dispose of - not great from an environmental perspective.
You could also try things like SOSMIX or Beanfeast (Holland and Barrett are a good source for these), but we're back to the weight/volume issue.
Do you have any idea how much access to fresh food, shops (?), you may have while you're there? In canoes you will have a bit more space to carry stuff. But, what will everyone else be eating? I assume that you won't be on your own and that the others in the party will not be eating an exclusive diet of meat and fish with nothing else?
Here's a long shot: about 15 years ago I went on an expedition and we prepared a load of food before hand and got a company to freeze dry it for us.
One more solution is to eat more of the veg/fruit that others will be eating as well but, as someone suggested above, take stuff like chilli powder, tomato/garlic paste, a few select herbs and spices and that. I've been veggy for about 5 years now and there's always a way!!! Good luck.
Oh - nearly forgot!!! Rather than look at body building supplements, you need to look more a carbs (most of your activity will be aerobic and not anaerobic); therefore, look at what endurance athletes use. I would recommend things like energy bars and gels (High 5, SiS and Powergel are all good - the High 5 caramel-flavour sports bars are awesome and taste fantastic!). Also, as you will need to keep hydrated throughout the day, high-carb sports drinks (which come in powdered form, ready for you to mix) would be perfect in maintaining energy levels and hydration; again, I'd recommend something like SiS PSP-22, or similar. If you are worried about protein, specific protein-enhanced sports bars and recoverey drinks, like SiS REGO will target both stocking up your glycogen carb reserves and providing easy digest proteins to help with muscle recovery. Hope this helps.
BIG-TARGET
19-12-2004, 23:36
Ramein noodle soups do the same thing, but it also gives some flavor :wink:
And lets not forget foraging for edible plants like dandelions, morels, etc. :biggthump
bambodoggy
20-12-2004, 11:00
I'm still not sure what the foraging will be like up there but all the northern mosses are edible and high in carbs....
Don't know about anyone else but I'm a little freaked reading the below posts....I'm sure it's not that bad but it sounds like Andy will be carrying a pharmacy with him.....this power bar and that drink mix etc etc..... There's GOT to be a natual way to do all this.....all those processed chemicals sounds horrid to me!
Chris's tip with the butter is a good one....remember the Tibetan's all drink butter tea....and it gets a bit nippy where they are!
Zen's post was very good too....didn't have all the supplements in it! :o):
None of my business what people take in to their bodies (I'm a smoker) but potions and pills scare me! :yikes:
I think I'd rather eat moss then take these suppliments in bulk. I could cope with a few though. I can't see me needing THAT much more the meat eaters
bambodoggy
20-12-2004, 11:58
:o): That's exactly what I said to begin with! lol :nana:
Don't know if you will get a chance to buy fresh supplies along the way but from the posts so far, it sounds like foraging opportunities may be limited. My Swedish friends say that there are lots of mushrooms and berries around if you are there at the right time (but you have to be quick to beat the locals).
I thought I would share an idea for fresh food to see what people think. I was staying in a youth hostel in Scotland a few years back and met a couple who grew sprouting seeds while they were travelling - alfalfa, mustard, cress etc. The seeds weigh next to nothing and they grew them in plastic tubs/jars. They are pretty easy to look after as they dont need soil and just need rinsing with water each day and are happy to live in the dark. They only take a couple of days to grow and if you stagger batches you could have a continuous supply.
OK, they were considered rather "eccentric" for this but if you are living on TVP and other dehydrated stuff for a month you might be glad of a few fresh greens. I have never tried it myself but they seemed to manage this succesfully while backpacking from place to place.
Sprouting seeds aren't to everyone's taste but as veggies I guess we are used to having people turn their noses up at our food! ;)
Dave
ps. lentils can take quite a while to cook (red ones are the quickest) so be careful if you have limited fuel - worth an experiment before you go. My sprouting seed friends claimed you can sprout lentils too.
Graham_S
02-08-2005, 10:54
if you have a container (for example a nalgene bottle) you can soak your lentils as you travel. just put the lentils (or beans) in the bottle with some water at breakfast time and leave untill it's time to cook dinner. remember to allow space for them to expand or you might have an explosion :eek:
innocent bystander
02-08-2005, 17:42
Wow. This is the thread i found googling, that got me onto this site in the first place !!! :)
Firewyre
02-08-2005, 20:52
Couple of thoughts as I was reading this thread.
Components -
Milk powder. Tastes a bit weird on its own, but it'd be great for teas, sauces, cereals, and porridge.
Oats. The flaked ones. Can add bulk to soups, but will be best in porridge. Also adds fibre to any breads made with it.
Flour. If you're into baking at all. Can thicken soups for a little added carbohydrate. Maybe take some veggie suet and make dumplings for all the soups.
Chocolate powder. For making hot chocolate. Maybe you want to add it to porridge, or make some kind of flapjack with the oats. Very light, you don't have to take much, but it'll be lovely next to the fire with a mug.
Boullion. Powdered, I like the 'Marigold' brand stuff. Very strong so a little goes a long way. Great for adding taste to any native greens you may boil up - like nettles.
Dried potato. Whether Smash granules or generic flaked potato, this can help make a soup thicker, add mash to a meal, or be added to flour to make potato cakes (tattie scones).
Noodle flavouring. Either save up little packets from noodles, or some asian supermarkets sell them seperately. I love the mushroom flavour ones, and the wonton flavour (officially prawns are in wontons, but there's nothing non-veggie in the flavouring!) Very concentrated, foil wrapped (waterproof) and you can add to any soup things. Others would suggest cupasoups.
Dried veg/onions/mushrooms. These can be bought in the supermarket. If you want to add them to soups, chuck em in. If you want to cook them for less time, maybe soak them overnight or during the paddle.
Dried fruit. Ace for energy, a little heavier than most other things. A bag of raisins would probably last you a while if you can resist snacking on them.
Sugar and salt. Lots of. Even if you don't use all the sugar, chances are good that someone will run out and you'll have a friend for life if you give them some.
Recipies -
Porridge. Take some dried milk powder, make up with your dried oats and soak overnight in the pot/sealed container - cook briefly in the morning and add seasoning. (For all you crazy types, that'll be sugar. For me, it's salt! :) ) It'll be marvelously creamy and keep you warm for ages.
Broth. Soak some grains (this'll be a common theme) and boil them up with the dried veg (onions and assorted). Add your boullion and serve with any bread-like item you have. Good for keeping in a flask for a hot mug of when on the move.
Lentil Soup. Again, soak the lentils for a good while and add the dried veg (onion/leek/carrots work well for me). Add a good dod of boullion again and heat on the fire (no need to really really boil hard) for as long as you can stand. Once the lentils are as soft as you like them (maybe half an hour) - eat!
Nettle Soup. There's enough recipies for this, but chances are nettles are everywhere. Grab a (gloved) handful of only the tenderest tops and shred into your pan. Boil up with some boullion and add some powdered potato. If you prefer it a little creamier, mix in some powdered milk.
That's all I can think of right now - as you can see, not terribly original, but possibly tasty, light and reliable.