View Full Version : bivi-bags
Hey i am on the market for a bivi bag i was lookin for a relitvly cheap one a i hav no regular cash flow . i am perticuarly intrested in a bivi with out poles. but wouldnt mind having a look at a poled one if as cheap as non poled one , and was wondering if anyone could shed some information on the subject any help/advice would be accepted with a thnks :-P
cheers
Paganwolf
07-12-2004, 19:05
You will probably be best off with an ex-mod GTX bivvi bag there pretty cheap and servicable, it think Bearclaw do them or The Outdoors have them too there about 35 to 45 quid.
Just to confirm; are the ones on Bearclaw gor-tex or similar? It doesn't say but I assume they are.
I recently got a Grade 1 Used British Army Goretex Bivvy on ebay for £35.
If you are comfortable using ebay and know the potential pitfalls it's definitely worth a look.
:biggthump
so nobody know of any cheap hooped ?
:-?
British army bivi bags arent officially GORE-TEX - Gore-tex is a trade marked name and we all know how precious people can get over silly things like that!!!
Army Bivi bags are made from a waterproof vapour permiable material almost identical to gore-tex but not trade marked and as such half the price.
Hope that helped.
Thanks Gary. I knew they must be breathable because the 'arctic' ones are alot cheaper and not much good as they sweat alot.
Cheers
Hootchi
(P.S. Its good to see that you sell hootchi's!!)
Hilleberg Bivanorak is my choice, but if you want a cheap one, why not using a Pertex Inlet? If you put it on the outside of a good synthetic sleeping bag the wind and most of the rain stays out. Cheap and best!
I believe the British Army bivi bag has a great reputation for its robustness/performance and coupled with its price cannot be beaten for the money.
Yeah i've been using a British Army Bivvi bag for years now, coupled with an Ex surplus Basha (or whatever you like to call them lol) and a British Sleeping bag, it's done superb service for me!
Willie, one thing to note is that there are 2 brit army bags on the market, the new DPM ones and the older green ones, I have experience of both and despite the larger size of the new ones I find that the older type is actually better.
There have been a few threads on bivvi bags on here and it has been stated before by a few of the others.
Hooped bivvi bags are good, but you will have problems getting a good one cheap, if you want to be able to justify what you have spent the standard bag is probably better, otherwise shell out a little more and get yourself a one man tent (which may still be a bit cheaper than a hooped bivvi bag), which will give you a little more space even if it weighs that little bit more.
I hope this will be of use to you :biggthump
I've got a British Army one, second hand, bought from Silverman's some years ago for £40. I am very pleased with it and the quality is superb.
I don't particularly recommend Silverman's, but they are a quick way of finding military surplus because of the large range of things they have.
Their website shows everything with its price. Don't remember it offhand but it's easy to find on Google UK.
could i just ask something are they like 100 % w/proof cos i actually hav a hooped one i got off a person with out poles and tht dosent seem to be that water proof :-?
MagiKelly
09-12-2004, 23:38
could i just ask something are they like 100 % w/proof cos i actually hav a hooped one i got off a person with out poles and tht dosent seem to be that water proof :-?
I would re-proof itwith one of the Gore - Tex proofing washes. Chances are that is all it needs, unless it has any obvious holes. Or sell it on Evilbay and you will probably get more than an army one will cost.
might do that lol but dnt know how the "evilbay" works lol will read up on it :-p
bushblade
10-12-2004, 18:18
Lately I've been using an outdoor designs Bivi bag, one of the first to use the new Gore-Tex Exchange gas permeable fabric. Being gas permeable you can fully enclose it and not suffocate. Breathability is amazingly good, its also lighter and more compact than most other bivi bags. All this does not come cheap though I think the RRP is £150, making the British army bag still the best value for money.
would u recomend using the army bivi's without a basha ?
Wllie,
I have used basha's and bivvie bags a lot in the past. here is my take on the situation...A standard breathable bivvie bag on its own is a great bit of kit in an emergency situation. You can get in there and be quite secure from the elements. Depending on the weather, your sleeping bag and a couple of other things, you could still end up feeling a bit damp/clammy; they are far, far better than the plastic bivvy bags though.
Now if you add a basha, you start to get "living room" and things become far more comfortable. In all but the worst weather, you no longer have to seal up the bivvy bag...half the time I would sleep with the top third of sleep bag out of the bivvy bag and relied on the basha to ward off the odd shower. In summer you probably don't need to use the bivvy at all, but its nice to have at hand...
So I would say one compliments the other to make a very flexible shelter system....
regards,
Pete
arctic hobo
12-12-2004, 14:50
The way I see it is that a basha will keep you dry from rain from the sky, but not wet ground unless you have a mat or something. They can be cheap as dirt and made from PVC if you like. A bag however is quite different, as you're inside there's a huge amount of condensation by morning if it's just plastic. This means it must be "breathable" which in my experience means it leaks. However if it doesn't leak for you, it is better - but getting a true breathable bag is very hard indeed - according to Trail magazine, the bivi bag that is actually truly breathable, will keep you perfectly dry while cocooned inside means you're looking at £200. And that to me is crazy... which is why I'll always just stick to a basha.
bushblade
12-12-2004, 17:34
would u recomend using the army bivi's without a basha ?
No. Possibly my outdoor designs one could cope on its own, but I have not tried this yet.
Bivi bags on their own are fine.... until it rains.
ok thank you guys very much for ur information and advice :wink:
cheers
Thanks Gary. I knew they must be breathable because the 'arctic' ones are alot cheaper and not much good as they sweat alot.
I think that this is because they are designed as 'vapour barriers' as it keeps more heat in when you're in extremely cold conditions and, frankly, when it's abso-******-lutely freezing, breathable membranes don't work that well anyway.
For my tuppence worth, an ex-army bivi-bag would see you right for a low price. If you really want a hooped bivi, go the whole hog and get a one man tent.
Given the problems with clamminess even with British Army bags, especially in the cold, what do people think of Ventile as a bivvy bag fabric? Seems to me that it could be much more breathable, seams wouldn't have to be taped, fire-proof etc. Assuming that most would sleep on a mat, with a basha over the top, you would be talking about keeping off dew, blown rain etc. I know that Rab make a pertex bivvy, which presumably works on the same principle?
greg2935
13-12-2004, 12:13
I've been thinking about bivis for a while now, but have a few hassles with them. I do not know how and breathable material including ventile would perform on wet soil. I have been told that "breathable" materials all work by 2 methods
1) coating the fibres with a water repellent coating (i.e. teflon).
2) ensuring the fibre weave is too fine for water to pass through, (I am not quite sure how this works because the H2O molecule obviously is smaller than the spaces between the weave, but I guess because water has a strong surface tension (i.e. it will form hydrogen bonds with anything it comes into contact with), it would prefer to bond with itself rather than "squeeze" between the weave).
So if you lay on a piece of ventile (or any other material), I would think you would have two effects, you would stretch the fabric you lie on and this must decrease the water repellency, and secondly, although the coatings they lace these materials with are elastic, they are usually also soft which means it is easy to rub them off. Incidently I think this is why ventile is so highly prized as a breathable material, it only relies on the weave, and the weave does not change the area of the holes when the fabric is stretched and so always remains almost 100% waterproof!
And finally at the point where your weight forces the ground to compact, water would be squeezed out of the soil and sit as a permanent pool in close contact with the material which I think is just asking for trouble.
Therefore I would suggest ventile would be an excellent material for the top of a bivi, but you need something completely waterproof for underneath. If I had the money, I would make the following: a ventile top with teflon coated "ground mat", not sure how to combine the two yet!
As far as bought bivis go, I think you are better off with a one man tent for the hooped varieties cost the earth and do not give the protection/room a tent can give. I use an ex british army bivi.
Greg
Just thought i'd add this quick question on the end of a thread to save starting a new one.
How much does a standard army breathable bivvy bay weigh? Like the ones I may get from Gary or Ebay.
Cheers
Hootch :wink:
Just thought i'd add this quick question on the end of a thread to save starting a new one.
How much does a standard army breathable bivvy bag weigh? Like the ones I may get from Gary or Ebay.
Cheers
Hootch :wink:
Anyone? :roll:
Good question re weight:
The Argos one man tent (was £19.95 and got good reports) weighs 2kg. Less if you bin the pegs and improvise.
The Hilleberg Akto one man tent is 1.5kg (and very expensive.)
If a basha is say, 800g, and a bivvi bag another 800g (someone please give me accurate figures) the weight saving is pretty minimal. And you can use the tent on high ground where there are no trees.
Just a thought.
bambodoggy
19-01-2005, 09:39
If I think on I'll try and weight mine this evening.....
Doc...difference is the bivvi/basha combo can be used on a hill side (bivvi can be used on it's own if required or lightweight poles can be used for the basha) but with a basha/bivvi combo you can leave one or the other behind in the summer if you like, you can use the basha sheet to collect rain water, you can use it to make a stretcher, you can add it to others to make bigger shelters, wrap them around your bergan for river crossing and even make a improvised coricle and so on....
I'd guess that the basha/bivvi combo is also alot more hardwearing then a cheap argos tent.
Weight saving my be minimal but you get closer to nature and the variety of uses is only limited by your imagination....... "lets go fly a kite, up to......" lol :o):
hope that helps.... :o):
The one I ordered from Bearclaw just arrived (thanks Gary!) so I put it on the kitchen scales. It weighs 1lb 15oz.
- Dic k (poxy software censoring my name :( )
Thanks Dic k. :biggthump I was just wondering how much my hootchi and bivvy bag arrangement will weigh.
Cheers :o):
Walkabout
24-01-2005, 14:08
If youre looking for a relly good bivvi bag then get the snugpak pertex one. You can squeeze it into a PLCE ammo pouch its that small and ive slept out in light rain with one, no basha and i stayed dry. It only costs 55quid and it weighs nothing. I think you can get them from SASS Kit.
Good question re weight:
The Argos one man tent (was £19.95 and got good reports) weighs 2kg. Less if you bin the pegs and improvise.
The Hilleberg Akto one man tent is 1.5kg (and very expensive.)
If a basha is say, 800g, and a bivvi bag another 800g (someone please give me accurate figures) the weight saving is pretty minimal. And you can use the tent on high ground where there are no trees.
Just a thought.
BRAVISSIMO!!!!!
And if the tent (http://www.kimmlite.com/tents.html) weighs less than one kilo then why take two [bits of kit] into a shower?
bambodoggy
24-01-2005, 14:43
BRAVISSIMO!!!!!
And if the tent (http://www.kimmlite.com/tents.html) weighs less than one kilo then why take two [bits of kit] into a shower?
That's a top looking tent Zamo....but with a top price to go with!!!! £175.00 I could buy a basha/bivvi bag and still have change to pay for my flight up to Scotland to use them!!! lol :o):
On the other hand....if the weather is bad next weekend while I'm under my basha and you're in your tent.... I may be able to leave my rations at home as I'll be eating my words!!! lol
I know we'd both survive but I'm sure you'd be more comfortable than me! :nana:
On the other hand....if the weather is bad next weekend while I'm under my basha and you're in your tent.... I may be able to leave my rations at home as I'll be eating my words!!! lol
I know we'd both survive but I'm sure you'd be more comfortable than me! :nana:
Isn't that what we're all striving to achieve? Being as comfortable as we can? With the kit we prefer to use?
Off topic I know but as lightweight tents go I can reccomend one of these
http://www.golite.co.uk/scstore/scstore/product_categories/products/hex3.html
I'll be bringing mine next weekend so if anyone wants a look, just ask.
Bambo, since I am bringing the missus to Ashdown I am compelled to bring one of my larger tents. We are debating whether the Khyam Igloo will suffice or if we should lug the "Taj Mahal" (http://www.decathlon.co.uk/ukstore/produit.asp?int_PfId=549993&int_DeptId=231310&int_DeptPereId=431) :o): :o): :o):
my neighbor has one like that... they can park their renualt senic in it! :yikes: (no joke i have seen it done!)
bambodoggy
24-01-2005, 16:20
Bambo, since I am bringing the missus to Ashdown I am compelled to bring one of my larger tents. We are debating whether the Khyam Igloo will suffice or if we should lug the "Taj Mahal" (http://www.decathlon.co.uk/ukstore/produit.asp?int_PfId=549993&int_DeptId=231310&int_DeptPereId=431) :o): :o): :o):
Blimey!!! Well I know where to come and hide if I start turning blue!!! lol
I can't even get my wife to come out in a tent let alone a basha....she's a B&B lady through and through! :rolmao:
I see that the Argos tent was been sold for as little as £15 at Argos, but now goes for £40 to £60 on ebay!
Agree that tarp plus Bivi bag is very robust but for hill use I would still prefer the tent. In the woods the tarp may have the edge, except perhaps in midge season....
Haven't managed to break the Argos cheapie yet, and neither has it leaked so far.
bambodoggy
25-01-2005, 10:00
I see that the Argos tent was been sold for as little as £15 at Argos, but now goes for £40 to £60 on ebay!
Agree that tarp plus Bivi bag is very robust but for hill use I would still prefer the tent. In the woods the tarp may have the edge, except perhaps in midge season....
Haven't managed to break the Argos cheapie yet, and neither has it leaked so far.
Fair enough Mate....I have to admit to being slightly pedantic about the use of tarps on the hillside anyway.....( :27: and if I'm honest I tend to use my tripple hooped gortex bivvi if I'm out on moors/hills etc with no tree cover...lol)
juliandavid
04-06-2005, 02:52
cicerone do that book, the book of the bivy..... worth reading for a bit of info and experience...
microporous ones are usually expensive, bulky, heavy, and a bit uncomfortable....
hydrophilic are usually cheap, compact, lightweight, and a bit uncomfortable...
for army surplus anything, add very uncomfortable, often canned, sometimes cheap..
try;
http://home.freeuk.net/kathmandu/index.html
theyve been doing them for years, microporous, about £50, and send out info if you ask..
Motorbike Man
05-06-2005, 18:38
cicerone do that book, the book of the bivy..... worth reading for a bit of info and experience...
microporous ones are usually expensive, bulky, heavy, and a bit uncomfortable....
hydrophilic are usually cheap, compact, lightweight, and a bit uncomfortable...
for army surplus anything, add very uncomfortable, often canned, sometimes cheap..
try;
http://home.freeuk.net/kathmandu/index.html
theyve been doing them for years, microporous, about £50, and send out info if you ask..
That would be your company would it Julian?
Fair enough Mate....I have to admit to being slightly pedantic about the use of tarps on the hillside anyway.....( :27: and if I'm honest I tend to use my tripple hooped gortex bivvi if I'm out on moors/hills etc with no tree cover...lol)
A bit off topic....
I've got 25 metres of green goretex......any chance of some sizes or photos of your hooped bivvi? What are the poles made from too?
Cheers,
Toddy