Probably a very silly question.

[Dave Barker]

Ok. NEWBIE ATTACK!!

Right, following on fom the advice i got regarding use of a fire steel i am nw able to likght most things as long as thay have some kind og flammable chemical on them.

So last night whilst swmbo was out i thought i would light the fire and warm the pace up.

So i started to thik of what i could use. I remember reading peeled back birch bark so tried this first.

We have a load of the stuff in the wood room, it has been there for the last year and is bone dry, i peeled the bark into transparent bits, made a nice airy pile and sparked it... nothing, lots of sparks, lots landed on the bark to, but not a glimpse of a flame.

I then tried the fluff from a tumble dryer filter, and the same thing happened... nothing.

SWMBO has sensitive skin so i know the cotton wool she uses id pure cotton, i teased this out into lots of threads and it was airy. sparked up..... Nothing :(

By this time i am thinking that had i been i a desperate need to light fire or freeze, my odds would have been on freezing.

I poped doenstairs and droped no more that 10 drops of meths onto the filter fluff.

back upstairs and one strike of the steel gave life and fire, the flame was good enough to build a lovely fire that warmed the whole house.

I am obviously dojng something very wrong. The tinder was bone dry the fire steel sparked ( hot too one got my hand) but it wouldn't light.

So is there anyone who would like to point me in te direction og firstly preping the tinder and secondly WHAT AM I DOING WRONG!?

Please help.
Thanks

[Tony]

With your bark were the sparks hitting it and then bouncing off because it was all balled up? Try getting a good sized piece and lay it flat so that the sparks can settle on it. It might also be an idea if you used your knife to scrap it a bit to produce a powder, this takes quite readily...

I’m surprised the cotton wool didn’t go up if it’s pure. Are you holding the knife steady and then pulling the steel or scraping the steel with the knife? Holding the knife steady and pulling the steel will give you better control of direction etc.

[Dave Barker]

With your bark were the sparks hitting it and then bouncing off because it was all balled up? Try getting a good sized piece and lay it flat so that the sparks can settle on it. It might also be an idea if you used your knife to scrap it a bit to produce a powder, this takes quite readily...

I’m surprised the cotton wool didn’t go up if it’s pure. Are you holding the knife steady and then pulling the steel or scraping the steel with the knife? Holding the knife steady and pulling the steel will give you better control of direction etc.

I held the knife steady and pulled the steel as I had been advised. I also tried it with the strike and go the same result.

The bark was flaked and thin, laying on a larger piece that i had taken the skin from, the sparks seemed to die as they left the steel and hit the bark, almost as if they were not hot enough.

I was holding the steel about 2 cm from the tinder too. Got really frustrating too so i have decided that i'll alwas carry matches and some kind of chemically prepared tinder in my pack.

I also tried wood dust from the workroom where i make the knives, this stuff is from a course wood file that shoulds burn easilly.... nothing.-

[Abbe Osram]

Ok. NEWBIE ATTACK!!

Right, following on fom the advice i got regarding use of a fire steel i am nw able to likght most things as long as thay have some kind og flammable chemical on them.

So last night whilst swmbo was out i thought i would light the fire and warm the pace up.

So i started to thik of what i could use. I remember reading peeled back birch bark so tried this first.

We have a load of the stuff in the wood room, it has been there for the last year and is bone dry, i peeled the bark into transparent bits, made a nice airy pile and sparked it... nothing, lots of sparks, lots landed on the bark to, but not a glimpse of a flame.

I then tried the fluff from a tumble dryer filter, and the same thing happened... nothing.

SWMBO has sensitive skin so i know the cotton wool she uses id pure cotton, i teased this out into lots of threads and it was airy. sparked up..... Nothing :(

By this time i am thinking that had i been i a desperate need to light fire or freeze, my odds would have been on freezing.

I poped doenstairs and droped no more that 10 drops of meths onto the filter fluff.

back upstairs and one strike of the steel gave life and fire, the flame was good enough to build a lovely fire that warmed the whole house.

I am obviously dojng something very wrong. The tinder was bone dry the fire steel sparked ( hot too one got my hand) but it wouldn't light.

So is there anyone who would like to point me in te direction og firstly preping the tinder and secondly WHAT AM I DOING WRONG!?

Please help.
Thanks


Hi mate;

please check if that link might help you:

http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/tinder.html

cheers
Abbe
:chill:

[Tantalus]

not sure if you are expecting instant flames or just a glowing ember Dave

I guess a glowing ember which need to be blown into life is what you should be getting here

the meths is giving you instant flame because it acts like a zippo, what catches fire is the vapour and air mix around the liquid soaked cotton

pure cotton /birch bark / dryer fluff will give you more of an ember

Tant

[Dave Barker]

not sure if you are expecting instant flames or just a glowing ember Dave

I guess a glowing ember which need to be blown into life is what you should be getting here

the meths is giving you instant flame because it acts like a zippo, what catches fire is the vapour and air mix around the liquid soaked cotton

pure cotton /birch bark / dryer fluff will give you more of an ember

Tant


The pysics of using meths are well known. But i didnt even get the smallest ember to breath into. The rod sparked, bright lights loads of sparks then nout.

Thanks for the other link ABBE.
I'll give it a crack next time swmbo goes out.

[bambodoggy]

With the birch bark you shoud get a flame straight off without an ember first. I use the bark as thin as possible and tear it up into 3mm wide strips about 2cm long and then make a very loose pile of them (say...golf ball sized). I then put the tip of the steel on the floor through the pile of bark and hold the knife on it, then pull the steel up and away sort of slowly but under pressure so lots of good sparks land directly on the tinder.
Dave, I'd say you were close but a 2cm gap is too far for the sparks to jump and still light.
I'd also say that I have never used birch bark that's been seasoned....nip outside and peel a small ammount straight off the tree, I'd guess it would have more of the oils in it that way.... if it's wet then just give it half an hour or so to dry out a little....I've made it work even when damp before.

Hope this help Mate!

[tomtom]

dave i got to re-iterate.. you wont get birch bark to burst in to flames by dropping a shower of sparks on.. is this bark is the paper tin stuff which peals of the outside of the bark.. or is it thicker than that the inner bark? if it is the first then try shredding it and buffing it up by rubbing it together.. if it is the latter then this is what you want to be scraping in to a dust as the inner bark has much more flammable resin in it.. try very gently scarping your fire steel so that you get a pile of firesteel dust on your tinder.. then when a spark lands on this pile of dust it will create lots more hear.. and hopefully get you a nice ember..

if all else failed pry to the bushcrafti gods :notworthy

[Dave Barker]

Thanks, i'll go picking when i walk the dog!

WATCH THIS SPACE!!

[Tony]

Which type of birch bark is it?

[tomtom]

happy hunting :wink:

[Dave Barker]

Which type of birch bark is it?

Birch from the standard silver birch that grows here.

TOMTOM i had been using the outer stuff, but had not tried rubbing it,i'll have a crack at the other stuff another day when swmbo is not there

TONY did you get the PM?

[bambodoggy]

Dave...did you ever get this sorted in the end then?

Hope you did! :-P

[falling rain]

dave i got to re-iterate.. you wont get birch bark to burst in to flames by dropping a shower of sparks on.. is this bark is the paper tin stuff which peals of the outside of the bark.. or is it thicker than that the inner bark? if it is the first then try shredding it and buffing it up by rubbing it together.. if it is the latter then this is what you want to be scraping in to a dust as the inner bark has much more flammable resin in it.. try very gently scarping your fire steel so that you get a pile of firesteel dust on your tinder.. then when a spark lands on this pile of dust it will create lots more hear.. and hopefully get you a nice ember..

if all else failed pry to the bushcrafti gods :notworthy

TomTom - I don't wish to be inflamatory :shock: ahem !! But You CAN get flame directly from striking into a ball of birch bark. I have done it and many times too. I expect quite a few others have here too. Unless I'm misunderstanding you. :?:

[tomtom]

i ment you wont get it to burst in to flames simply by pulling it off the tree and showering sparks on to its surface.. you have to busf/shred prep it first.. or at least that is what i have found... but i have been known to be wrong! (theres all of 3 birchtrees for 50 miles around here so what do i know)

[bambodoggy]

Nope....you're quite right FallingRain.....it works straight off the tree as it is hence my lower post about it..... Tomtom....I'll show ya at ashdown if you like :wave: It's the easiest way I've found to get a flame in a hurry without anything more than the firesteel itself.

To be fair we are inundated in the stuff....I mainly burn birch in my woodburning stove.

I'll be bringing a load of birch logs down to ashdown for the fire and for people to play about with carving...

[shinobi]

(theres all of 3 birchtrees for 50 miles around here so what do i know)
You'll have plenty of trees to practice on in Ashdown. Theres Thaarsahnds of them over here.

Martin

[Ed]

You are quite right Falling Rain.... It'll burst into flame with one of those modern firesteels, of course shredding/buffing it will help it along no end ;-)

I like the idea of wrapping a golfball size piece of tinder around the steel... I'd never thought of that :biggthump

Ed

[bambodoggy]

Theres Thaarsahnds of them over here.

Hey Martin....is that your dodgy Ozzy/cockney/essex accent coming out? :nana:

[shinobi]

Hey Martin....is that your dodgy Ozzy/cockney/essex accent coming out? :nana:
What's dodgy about it? I spent years at RADA perfecting it. I am a thespian :-)

[bambodoggy]

What's dodgy about it? I spent years at RADA perfecting it. I am a thespian :-)

I don't know about RADA but wife seems to spend years at Prada!!!!!! Still, for every new handbag she buys that's a new toy for me for bushcraft! :o):

[falling rain]

Yep - agreed Ed, buffing it up a bit does help, and being bone dry helps too of course when using it straight off the tree. :wave:

[Scally]

there are two ways of useing fires steel 1 produces spark but not that hot or long lasting and thats dragging steel down fire stick
2nd way press steel at 90 degrees (sometimes need to flip to other side) then push steel whilst still pressing down useing your thumb to push the steel down the steel digs out more material but at a lot higher temp and longer lasting. works for me any way? hope this makes sence

[TheViking]

there are two ways of useing fires steel 1 produces spark but not that hot or long lasting and thats dragging steel down fire stick
2nd way press steel at 90 degrees (sometimes need to flip to other side) then push steel whilst still pressing down useing your thumb to push the steel down the steel digs out more material but at a lot higher temp and longer lasting. works for me any way? hope this makes sence
Nope 3. http://www.bushcraftuk.net/community/showpost.php?p=52589&postcount=8
:biggthump

[leon-1]

Dave, this is an image of an F1 and a firesteel being used to light some birch bark. It was posted by Neil1, this is what you will need in the way of a spark to get it going, if your birch bark doesn't catch try interspersing it with thistle down or a lighter form of tinder, this way if the bark doesn't go the other stuff probably will.
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/120/140dcp008477ga.jpg

With cotton wool I used to blow into it before I tried to light it, method blow into it, tease it up and then use the firesteel on it by placing the steel actually on the cotton wool (it will form a little hollow) and then using the area on the spine of the knife close to the tip of the blade and using a lot of force push the knife slowly towards the tinder. The resulting shower of sparks is quite intense and prolonged, the cotton wool more or less explodes into a life of flame.

For more difficult tinders (cloth and some fungi) try holding the tinder against the spine of the blade and striking the firesteel through the tinder, with this you may have to nurse an ember and if you are having trouble with your cotton wool try this method with cotton wool.

As an alternative you could use fine grade wirewool, with this you will almost certainly have to nurse an ember, but once it is burning it throws out a lot of heat.

All the best in your search for the eternal flame :biggthump

[Jeff Wagner]

I am not familiar with your silver birch, however a pile of yellow birch peelings similar to those shown in the photo will ignite instantly, as they are removed from the tree with no additional preparation. I've done it numerous times even with the poor excuse for a sparking tool provided with the fire steel. A knife or back of my gerber saw blade does a much better job. I will often collect a handful of birch peels while still hunting and save them for later fire making. The fire piston is of course the most often used fire making device and in this case the birch bark is ignited using a ball of shredded cedar bark about the size of an egg. I have noted that using the firesteel after dark causes temporary impairment of ones vision due to the bright flash. I cant see my tinder... :shock:

[Ed]

I have noted that using the firesteel after dark causes temporary impairment of ones vision due to the bright flash. I cant see my tinder...
Its even worse with one of those magnesium block firestarters....

Ed

[Jeff Wagner]

Hmmm....another advantage of the fire piston :o):