View Full Version : Airbed or Sleeping mats?....
Leigh Robinson
28-03-2009, 17:20
Hi,
I want to get my girlfriend into camping then onto wild camping. So I know that I will need to keep her in the luxury that she is accustomed to so she can ease into it.
I want to get to to point where we can go hiking and be able to wild camp. My dream is a week or two in the highlands hiking around the lochs and coastline and setting camp wherever we feel.
I have got us a nice vango equinox 250 tent for space and luxury now I need airbed/sleeping mats and sleeping bags.
Ideally I dont want something too heavy and big but at the same time there has to be a certain amount of comfort as a good nights sleep sets you up for the rest of the day.
I have been looking on Millets and the airbeds seem best for houses/campsites. Thermarests are obscenely expensive, and I have no idea how something can be 'self inflating mats'?
any advice or help on what could be suitable for us would be greatly appreciated.
If she doesnt want to go why bother? She will only be a pest.
I use a hiker airbed, basicaly an overpriced lilo (and theres no reason why you couldnt get a lilo)
I dont get on with self inflating mats.
Go to Morrisons, £9 for a single or £15 for a double airbed with pump included. At that price if it doesn't work out for her at least you have an airbed for guests or something at home.. :D
scottishwolf
28-03-2009, 17:44
I use one of these at 3 quid a pop, not the most comfy nights sleep in the world but really good protection from the cold.
http://www.britishmilitarysurplus.co. uk/ishop/1069/shopscr85.html
Or if car camping, fishing for a few days at a time etc, I use one of these at 8 quid a go but they weigh a ton.
http://www.britishmilitarysurplus.co. uk/ishop/1069/shopscr52.html
Chinkapin
28-03-2009, 18:01
I bought 2 thermorest pads about 20 years ago and they are still going strong. There the best thing available. Here is how they "self inflate": But, it makes more sense to start with putting one up after you have finished using it. (stick with me, you will understand in a minute) The valve at the foot of the mattress is first opened, then, starting at the other end, the pad is tightly rolled up, this expells the air out the valve as you roll it up. Once you reach the other end, close the valve and the pad will pretty much stay rolled. Now you can put it in its stuff sack. To deploy the pad, remove from the stuff sack, and open the valve at the foot. Inside the matress is sponge rubber (Dunlopillo??? I believe you call it.) that wants to expand to its natural shape but couldn't as long as the air valve was shut and it was mashed flat (when you rolled it up) and held in a vacuum by the valve being shut. Once you open the valve and let air in the pad can expand. As it expands it pulls in more air until it is in its normal inflated state. I find that 1 or 2 puffs of air will top it off nicely.
should have said above - self inflating means that inside the mat there is a big sponge like thing, when you open the valve it lets air into the sponge and it expands back into its full shape, pushing the mat material out with it. This usually takes a few mins, and sometimes you have to add a couple of breaths to it, to plump it up to a desired firmness.
Closed cell mats like the top one scottishwolf posted are best at keeping cold out, but are not comfy at all. Selfinflating mats can be really comfy, but it does depend on the thickness of them. Mines about 2 or 3 cm thick and it fine. Have a look here (http://www.alpkit.com/airic/) at Alpkits mats - they are rated highly by some, and one is on my 'to get' list.
One or two people have said they take airbeds with them - fine for a short hike or camping near your car, but after a few miles every pound weighs more n more
Leigh Robinson
28-03-2009, 18:34
Hi,
She is well up for camping, just never done it before. And we all know it can be as luxurious or as rough as you like. From bivvy and tarp to tents and airbeds.
I am thinking maybe 2 singles so I can use with friends and family too.
My kit is getting pretty heavy now with the tent strapped to my rucksack.
alpha_centaur
28-03-2009, 19:33
Get her one of these from alpkit http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16215&category_id=253
I've got the regular one and sleep like the dead on it
jabbadahut
28-03-2009, 21:08
sorry to hijack but i have been looking at some self inflating mats with a view to getting one, there seems to be a lot of price differences with the thermarest being mega expensive compared to gelert mats at about £16, besides quality, does the therma rest do anything that the gelert ones dont? i would only be using it 5 -6 times a year so cant warrant cost of thermarest.
again sorry to hijack.
leigh, i think if your girlfriend is eager to go camping thats half the battle, show her the options of whats available, mats, airbed,and s.i mats and she will feel more involved and more likely to try other options if the first isnt too comfortable.
good luck
sorry to hijack but i have been looking at some self inflating mats with a view to getting one, there seems to be a lot of price differences with the thermarest being mega expensive compared to gelert mats at about £16, besides quality, does the therma rest do anything that the gelert ones dont? i would only be using it 5 -6 times a year so cant warrant cost of thermarest.
again sorry to hijack.
leigh, i think if your girlfriend is eager to go camping thats half the battle, show her the options of whats available, mats, airbed,and s.i mats and she will feel more involved and more likely to try other options if the first isnt too comfortable.
good luck
I use a 3/4 Gelert and never had any problems with it. Not used any of the more 'fancy' models outside, slept on a therm-a-rest indoors in a spare room once, found it really uncomfortable to be honest. I'll probably get a full length one from some place, either another Gelert or an Alpkiy one.. or wait till lidl do their yearly £9.99 ones.
I find my Alpkit regular sized Airic to be very comfortable, used it in woods, on grass land and on wooden floors. It's quite decent value imo, not too heavy.
No way I'd even think about carrying the Fat Airic in my backpack! (In fact might get the Wee version to loose a bit more weight and than swmbo could use the regular...)
I don't know how heavy good airbeds are, but the cheap one in my attic sure is heavy... And as you know: every gram counts! ;)
Another vote for the Airics by Alpkit here - I use the slim version and it's been great wherever it's been used, indoors or outdoors.
forestwalker
29-03-2009, 06:19
I tried the thermarests back in the 80's. Nice, comfy, once I had glued some vecro (loop) on it not too slippery. But I gave it away, since I did not really want anything that could go wrong so easilly and went back to closed cell foam pads (sometimes one normal and one ridgerest, the latter is much softer). But I gave a modern thermarest to my SO a few years back, now she sleeps much better.
The problem with thermarests in bushcraft/survival settings is that they will not shrug off sparks and pointy sticks (from a shelter) the way closed cell foam will. We keep telling them for the Survival Guild basic courses "closed cell foam only" (they get to carry a closed cell foam pad on the basic course since it saves the forest somewhat). What does 30% of them bring? A nice shiny and expensive thermarest, at least a third of which will be punctured by the end of the course.
These days I most often carry a reindeer hide instead of the foam pads. Not as resistent to wet, but softer, warmer and feels more "bushcrafty".
In your case I would advocate a cheap thermarest clone of reasonable thickness; she'll be much more comfortable, and ones it dies she can upgrade to whatever she prefers.
Chinkapin
30-03-2009, 18:47
I dont understand all these people using thermorests who punctured their mattresses. As I said above, I have had these two for over twenty years, I still have the puncture repair kits that came with them. They have never been used as neither one has ever had a puncture. If you carefully clean up the ground where you are going to place your pad, and don't lay in bed playing with you knife and/or sharp sticks you should get the same results that I have. I never abused them, but on the other hand I did not accord them any special treatment either.
Scots_Charles_River
30-03-2009, 18:51
I would say get a ridge rest foam mat and then add a cheaper thermarest copy, like in go-outdoors or decathlon.
As long as I can sleep on my side or back I am fine. I camp on this on hol. for 6 weeks every summer. I come home then get a sore back on a normal mattress !
Nick
Scots_Charles_River
30-03-2009, 18:53
Hi,
I want to get my girlfriend into camping then onto wild camping. I want to get to to point where we can go hiking and be able to wild camp. My dream is a week or two in the highlands hiking around the lochs and coastline and setting camp wherever we feel.
any advice or help on what could be suitable for us would be greatly appreciated.
Don't come to Scotland for her first experience if it's summer, as the midges could drive her crazy. I could have sold dozens of head nets in Glen Etive last summer to the foreigners there.
Nick
forestwalker
31-03-2009, 05:41
I dont understand all these people using thermorests who punctured their mattresses. As I said above, I have had these two for over twenty years, I still have the puncture repair kits that came with them. They have never been used as neither one has ever had a puncture. If you carefully clean up the ground where you are going to place your pad, and don't lay in bed playing with you knife and/or sharp sticks you should get the same results that I have. I never abused them, but on the other hand I did not accord them any special treatment either.
And there is the problem. If you use them under "nice" conditions life is good, but once you shove them on top of some spruce boughts, into a cramped shelter built with various branches, next to a fire all bets are off.
I I only ever slept away from a fire and on clean ground one would be fine. I do not.
One or two people have said they take airbeds with them - fine for a short hike or camping near your car, but after a few miles every pound weighs more n more
Very true. Which is why I DON'T take a self-inflater - packed up they are HEAVIER and BIGGER than a mattress you have to inflate yourself (assuming you don't take a pump and inflate it with your own lungs). It doesn't take long to inflate a single-size mattress - about 15 minutes.
If you take a hiker's mattress then it's even smaller (about the size of a bog roll) and takes just a few stiff breaths to inflate. This is the cheapest/best size to weight ratio/quickest inflation time option. Not as comfy as a 3" thick air mattress, but a good compromise.
It is true that you have to be careful where you lay them out, but I always lay mine on a camping mat to avoid punctures. The extra weight of that is negligible, although I concede it, in theory, adds bulk. But strapped to the top/back of your pack it's easy enough to carry.
I have always found self-inflaters to be too bulky, too thin, too expensive. Utterly pointless, given the options.
Very true. Which is why I DON'T take a self-inflater - packed up they are HEAVIER and BIGGER than a mattress you have to inflate yourself (assuming you don't take a pump and inflate it with your own lungs). It doesn't take long to inflate a single-size mattress - about 15 minutes.
If you take a hiker's mattress then it's even smaller (about the size of a bog roll) and takes just a few stiff breaths to inflate. This is the cheapest/best size to weight ratio/quickest inflation time option. Not as comfy as a 3" thick air mattress, but a good compromise.
It is true that you have to be careful where you lay them out, but I always lay mine on a camping mat to avoid punctures. The extra weight of that is negligible, although I concede it, in theory, adds bulk. But strapped to the top/back of your pack it's easy enough to carry.
I have always found self-inflaters to be too bulky, too thin, too expensive. Utterly pointless, given the options.
Sounds like a good option, do you know where you can easily get them at all, online?
Andy2112
31-03-2009, 13:10
Very true. Which is why I DON'T take a self-inflater - packed up they are HEAVIER and BIGGER than a mattress you have to inflate yourself (assuming you don't take a pump and inflate it with your own lungs). It doesn't take long to inflate a single-size mattress - about 15 minutes.
If you take a hiker's mattress then it's even smaller (about the size of a bog roll) and takes just a few stiff breaths to inflate. This is the cheapest/best size to weight ratio/quickest inflation time option. Not as comfy as a 3" thick air mattress, but a good compromise.
It is true that you have to be careful where you lay them out, but I always lay mine on a camping mat to avoid punctures. The extra weight of that is negligible, although I concede it, in theory, adds bulk. But strapped to the top/back of your pack it's easy enough to carry.
I have always found self-inflaters to be too bulky, too thin, too expensive. Utterly pointless, given the options.
I used to own a double air bed, it was heavy and cold when me and the wife used to camp. I now have two full size SIM's and they are brilliant, mines an 8cm thick Multimat and my wifes got a Blacks own brand of the same thickness. The only downside for me is the bulk. I wouldn't say they were heavy TBH. Gelert do a cut down full length one, it's shaped like a coffin to cut down on weight and costs around £25. Or Vango do a 3/4 length for around £17.
Sounds like a good option, do you know where you can easily get them at all, online?
Blacks do them for a tenner.
Chinkapin
31-03-2009, 18:29
Don't get me wrong, I never said the Thermorest was the best mattress or the only way to go. In fact, I agree they are too bulky and to heavy. I only began using them after suffering a ruptured disc in my lower back that made sleeping on anything difficult. They were never used under anything resembling "nice conditions." They were used under ordinary outdoor camping conditions, from Arkansas to Washington state and back. Maybe I'm just lucky.
forestwalker
31-03-2009, 18:52
They were never used under anything resembling "nice conditions." They were used under ordinary outdoor camping conditions, from Arkansas to Washington state and back. Maybe I'm just lucky.
I think we might mean different things by "nice". Nice is ground with a minimum of pine comes and pointy twigs, not nice is s small, cramped shelter built from spruce boughts on a frame of standing dead pine, brances broken off by hand, or right next to a log fire for warmth. Burning spark-throwing pine and spruce.
But they are nice and soft, no discussion of that. And as opposed to the old-fashioned air mattress they are not a heat sink.
nige7whit
31-03-2009, 21:15
Hi,
I want to get my girlfriend into camping then onto wild camping. So I know that I will need to keep her in the luxury that she is accustomed to so she can ease into it.
I want to get to to point where we can go hiking and be able to wild camp. My dream is a week or two in the highlands hiking around the lochs and coastline and setting camp wherever we feel.
.
Dude, if she isn't already into it, either take it slow, or think of something else.! When my (now ex) wife decided she's like to go camping, I found a 1 day route (Patterdale-Red Tarn-Hellvelyn-Striding Edge-Patterdale) and split it into a 2 day walk, so we camped at Red Tarn, and she was exhausted then ! Half way, she was 100% exhausted, we camped, I set up all the tent/kit. Next day, I even carried her light rucksack on top of my own heavy bergan.
Thankfully, my kids seem to have inherited my spirit of adventure, and at 4, they both climbed a local but quite steep hill to see the view from the top (Hoad monument, Ulverston, if you're interested).
Closing advice..... Try something low level and easy, if she finds it hard, then it's not for you (as a couple).
Chinkapin
31-03-2009, 23:43
Leigh Robinson, listen carefully to nige7whit above, about taking it slow. One bad experience, particularly a first one, and most people are finished. My wife and I and our two girls went hiking in the Colorado Rockies and just about everything went wrong. We were beginners at the time. On arrival three of the four of us had altitude sickness. Our kit was too heavy. It rained all day everyday. I came down with Guardia. Eventually we packed up and moved to the Great Sand Dunes National Monument, where we all dried out, but I laid sick with Guardia.
After returning home I never got the girls out into the wilderness again. My wife and I both took it in stride but to this day you cant get either one of them out of the house for anything more than a picnic. This was all the fault of ignorance of beginners, poorly chosen kit, bad judgment, and poor planning.
Prophecy
31-03-2009, 23:54
Over here Tesco are doing inflatable camping airbed things for less than a tenner.
i have 2 alpkit wee's, an alpkit regular, and a thermarest. - bang for buck, the alpkit are streets ahead. The wee's are perfect for hiking - esp if combined with a foam mat.
Dont forget a blow up pellow :)
i have 2 alpkit wee's, an alpkit regular, and a thermarest. - bang for buck, the alpkit are streets ahead. The wee's are perfect for hiking - esp if combined with a foam mat.
Dont forget a blow up pellow :)
I'm curious, apart from the obvious cost difference, what are the differences between a thermarest and Alpkits gear? I ask as I tend to like their stuff, but haven't got anything much to compare it too. Thinking of getting one of their mats anyway, but would like to know and I think others would be interested in the differences in size, quality of build, design, shape, weight and everything else? Perhaps a seperate thread would be more appropriate with picures :D? Probably pushing my luck there.. :) Seriously any information on the differences would be good to have.
adderrustler
05-04-2009, 14:50
Selfinflating kip mats are best if you buy an inflatable bed and it goes down she will only moan
We used the closed cell mats for years, but they're only comfortable on top of lots of springy heather or the like. They're pretty much indestructable though, lightweight and don't mind getting wet.
Then I got sore and stiff and achy with arthritis, and I bought the self inflating thermarest clones.......not much better than the others to be honest, and they were short; and since I'm only 5'2" that's relevant.
So I gave in and bought the blow up airbeds. Comfortable, heavy, the pump is bulky and it's hard work blowing them up, and they can be surprisingly cold :( Fine in a dry tent in Spring, Summer and early Autumn I reckon. Handy for a spare bed if needed though.
Then I found out how to stop the pain and the aches :D and I saw the Exped down mat :cool: and I tried one. And I wanted one, 'cos it's easy, it packs small and opens up big, and it's warm under me.......and I do mean it's warm under me :D
Not cheap though, but if it died tomorrow, I'd buy another one :)
Scotland in Summer for a newbie ? Go East, fewer midgies and clegs, and there's still stunning scenery and lovely places to wander.
atb,
Toddy