View Full Version : Bow Fishing ? ? ? ? Can I? ? ?
bambodoggy
12-11-2004, 17:29
Hey All,
I'm fully (and painfully) aware that all hunting with Bow's is illigal in the UK but I can't work out if that applies to fishing with Bow's too.... I have a nice compound bow I picked up in the US with fishing arrows and a real on the front (Burt Renolds in deliverance style) but don't know if I'm allowed to use it over here.
As far as I know harpoon fishing is allowed so bow fishing may be....
What do you guys think? I've looked through the "wildlife and Country side Act 1981" and can't see any mention of them.
Hope somebody out there knows!
Thanks guys,
Phil.
very unlikley but somone on here will know for sure
im fairly sure your not allowed to shoot anything that is alive in the uk with a bow! be it on land or in water..
im fairly sure your not allowed to shoot anything that is alive in the uk with a bow!
Yep.... your spot on there, though laws maybe different at sea, but you can't on river, estuary, lake or pond.
:-)
Ed
It's interesting. I've heard the same rumour - that there's no prohibition to fishing by bow - and everytime i've heard it crop up there are lots "I think" opinions but never anything definitive.
Ed, you seem sure on this, can you tell us which statute it is that bans bowfishing or even just a pointer to where you heard it ?
A big thanks in advance. :biggthump
course if you build a canoe you can paddle in to international waters!
Ed, you seem sure on this, can you tell us which statute it is that bans bowfishing or even just a pointer to where you heard it ?
I thought it would come under the wildlife and country side act..... thats what I go by...... and I quote
Section 11 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 as amended by Schedule 12 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 create the offences of setting self-locking snares and snares that cause bodily injury to any wild animals that come into contact with them, or using bows, crossbows or explosives to kill or capture them;
As I see it, the above law basicly outlines that it is an offence to use a bow to kill or capture 'ANY' wild animal.
Where have you seen this rumour about it being legal.... I'll check it out
:biggthump
Ed
alick i can see where your coming from.. a fish might not be classed as an animal.. but i shouldnt think it is allowed... but then there is spear fishing..??? maybe ross on BB would know!
the definition of an animal is:
An organized living being endowed with sensation and the power of voluntary motion, and also characterized by taking its food into an internal cavity or stomach for digestion; by giving carbonic acid to the air and taking oxygen in the process of respiration; and by increasing in motive power or active aggressive force with progress to maturity.
there for a fish is an animal.
and as such Section 11 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 as amended by Schedule 12 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 prohibits the use of a bow to kill or capture a fish.
Les Marshall
13-11-2004, 11:59
I'm on duty at a police custody centre at the moment and I have just asked the duty sergeant about this one, he says that it is illegal to use a bow for fishing in fresh water, but not too sure about the sea. :pack:
bambodoggy
13-11-2004, 15:01
Wow...thanks all, mighty fine resposes.... I had a feeling it wouldn't be allowed but just thought I'd see what you guys thought...
This is maybe going to sound daft but the C&WL Act only mentions (obviously) wild animals.....so would it in theory be possible to use a bow for fishing at say a trout farm....provided of course the owner let you?
Also, thanks to Ed for putting my post in the right place... I'm a newey here and didn't mean any offence to our veggie brothers and sisters :)
Phil.
trout farm :rolmao:
well the one i go to only says no barbless hooks.. nothing about no barbless arrows! :wave:
Hi Ed. Thanks, that helps :You_Rock_
This one appears from time to time in archery circles as wel as having - I think - popped up on BCUK once before. As I'm new into archery over the last 6 months I've noticed it two or three times recently while randomly browsing archery sites.
The Wildlife and Countryside Act is reasonably well known so I imagine the confusion must arise from whether fish are wild animals or not. I'd never assume that common sense applies to stautes - quite the reverse - and in fact will be very impressed if that excellent definition Stuart quoted was from the law books.
It would be so nice to have to eat my own words !
Cheers
alick i can see where your coming from.. a fish might not be classed as an animal.. but i shouldnt think it is allowed... but then there is spear fishing..??? maybe ross on BB would know!
At the moment, dont have a scooby!! I'll have a look through the laws when I'm on duty next & try and find a definitive answer.
Thanks Ross :biggthump :1244:
This is maybe going to sound daft but the C&WL Act only mentions (obviously) wild animals.....so would it in theory be possible to use a bow for fishing at say a trout farm....provided of course the owner let you?
Good question.
I have talked about that with some of the fishery owners that I have complained at over the years for me not catching enough with a fly. I have not come across one that would be comfortable with it. This may be more to do with you shooting the big ones you might not normally catch. :wink:
Moonraker
14-11-2004, 19:31
Or cross over the English Channel :wink: Since 1995 it has once again been legal to use a bow/crossbow to hunt game in France. I am not sure about fishing though and suspect it is not as most fishing federations are very traditional and protect the game fishing stocks.
There was one anecdote which I thought may be worth quoting here. Robert Hardy, in his book 'Longbow: A Social and Military History' states:
"The Member of Parliament briefed to defend the bowhunter's interests before the House of Commons in 1963, was in the lavatory when his turn came to speak." So bowhunting in England and Wales was outlawed.
On such moments laws are made :o):
From my research the l'arbalete or crossbow was much more commonly used for hunting than the English longbow which was designed really for battle when the advantage in distance was important. They were often noted in the inventories taken after the dissolution of the Knights Templar in the early C14th for instance from the Preceptories which functioned as organisational centres for their lands and were mostly farms with or without a chapel. So weapons found there were for the normal rural use in Europe at that time).
bambodoggy
16-11-2004, 10:51
That sounds about right for the UK parliment!
Any idea how I go about hunting in France....what licences do I need and how do I find a hunting ground?
My french is a little limited (only just schoolboy french really) but I pick up langues quickly (even if I can't spell them)... :o):
Also, do any of our law enforcement buddies on here know whether customs are likely to freak if I'm carrying a compound crossbow in my hand luggage? ? ?
Cheers all.....
Moonraker
16-11-2004, 12:07
bambodoggy, I am afraid as I don't hunt or use a bow I am not sure on details. here are a couple of links which may guide you:
Bow Hunting - In the forests of Normandy (http://www.gourmetfly.com/Bow.htm)
Big game season from June to the end of the winter. Small game days are organized in autumn & winter.
This is an English site (American?) on organised bowhunting in Normandy. Have a look through the site. There are some serious animals they have there :shock:
Bit of info from the French government site on hunting in France generally:
Hunting: validation of a foreign hunting permit
A hunting permit may be granted to non-resident foreign nationals holding a foreign hunting permit in order to hunt in France, for a period of nine consecutive days. It may be renewed three times, subject to the payment of the provisional national or departmental hunting fee for nine-day periods and of a provisional Departmental Hunting Federation membership fee.
Documents required
1 insurance certificate valid in France
hunting permit issued in country of origin or any other alternative administrative document
1 identity document or passport
2 passport-size photos (35mm x 45 mm)
A permanent hunting permit may be issued once the applicant has taken a theoretical and practical examination and paid stamp duty and an annual national hunting fee.
Hunting season: hunting is allowed only during certain periods of the year. Bird shooting is prohibited in the case of nestlings or during the different stages of reproduction and dependence. In addition, shooting of migratory birds is prohibited during the return journey to their nesting place. Game shooting is prohibited from 6 a.m. on Wednesdays to 6 a.m. on Thursdays.
For further information please contact Ministère de l'Aménagement du territoire et de l'environnement (Ministry of Regional Planning and the Environment), Direction de la Nature et des paysages, Sous-Direction de la Chasse, de la faune et de la flore sauvages, Bureau de la Chasse. Telephone: 01 40 81 7
This site has a LOT of general hunting info for France and is in English:
*France - Firearms Legislation (http://www.wfsa.net/Intl_Leg/Leg_France.htm)
Moving between member States or Coming from abroad
Moving between EU member States
French residents need an EFP (European Firearms Pass) to travel/transit to another member State. The prior consent of the transited/visited member State is necessary when the accompanying firearm is under authorisation in the transited/visited member State.
Visitors from another member State do not need a prior consent from the French authorities when they travel with firearms subject to declaration or free sale but do if they travel with firearms subject to authorization. Firearms of military calibres are prohibited.
A written invitation is necessary.
In France the cross bow is listed under Class 6:
Category VI (cold steel)
i.e.:
- bayonet, saber-bayonet, dagger, dagger-bayonet
- bludgeon
- cross bow
- Ninja stars
- lachrymal aerosol
I once watched a late night bow hunting programme where a couple of guys were bow hunting pheasant. I was very impressed with their dedication as that is one seriously difficult art :-) They did eventually come away with a few. I think it must of taken hours to get a shot for the camera on film.
Hope this helps.
Cheers Moonraker, thats very helpful. There are a couple of groups that are trying to organise a trips to france, I'll pass your infomation onto them :biggthump
Ed
bambodoggy
16-11-2004, 12:47
Wow...that's fantastic Moonraker, thank you ever so much.
I'll spend the next few hours ploughing through the websites you've found and see what I can turn up.
If I do head over there I think I'll take my compound bow rather than the compound crossbow...seems a little more sporting to me! :)
again, many thanks!
Phil.
Right, couldnt find anything on bow fishing, apologies. Obviously not something that comes up that often so there's nothing on my police systems. Did find some other stuff on fishing which I thought may be interesting:
2 - Methods Of Fishing
(1) No person shall fish for or take salmon in any inland water, except by rod and line or by net and coble:
Provided that any right of fishing for salmon in existence at the commencement of this Act may continue to be exercised as if the Act had not been passed.
(1A) No person shall fish for or take salmon in any waters in a salmon fishery district other than inland waters, except by rod and line, net and coble or bag net, fly net or other stake net.
(2) No person shall fish for or take freshwater fish in any inland water except by rod and line:
Provided that-
(a) in any pond or loch where all the proprietors are so agreed a right of fishing may be exercised by net; and
(b) in any inland water a proprietor or occupier may fish for or take freshwater fish, other than trout, by net or trap.
(3) Nothing in this section shall be construed as prohibiting the use of a gaff, tailer or landing-net as auxiliary to the taking of salmon or freshwater fish by rod and line.
(4) if any person contravenes this section he shall be guilty of an offence against this Act. (Section 2, as amended by Salmon Act, 1986).
Notes:
(a) For meanings of "freshwater fish", "inland waters", "rod and line", "salmon" and "trout", see Section 24(1) herein.
(b) Other prohibited methods of fishing are described in Section 15, Salmon Fisheries (Scotland) Act, 1868, which would appear to be partly superseded by the above Section 2.
(c) For provisions relating to illegal possession of salmon, trout, instruments, etc., in connection with offences against the above Section 2, see Section 7 herein and, for forfeiture of such articles, see Section 19.
(d) For definitions of methods of fishing and construction of nets, see The Salmon (Definition of Methods of Net Fishing and Construction of Nets) Regulations, 1992, in this Section of the Book.
(e) In Mitchell v McQuaid (2003) G.W.D 30-846, the accused appealed against conviction for taking salmon by foul hooking contrary to section 2(1)(above). The accused had been found hiding whilst wearing camouflage gear and chest waders near three salmon on the riverbank. He was dressed in the same gear as that of three men earlier observed by police to be "ripping", and who ran away on arrival of the police. When searched the accused was found to have a box of triple hooks on his person. The High Court set aside the sheriff's verdict and substituted an amended verdict of guilty with deletion of the words "and take" but did not alter the £500 fine imposed.
If any person-
(a) uses any explosive substance with intent to take or destroy fish in any waters (including the sea within the fishery limits of the British Islands); or
(b) puts any poison or other noxious substance in or near any such waters with intent to take or destroy fish; or
(c) uses any electrical device with intent to stun or destroy salmon or freshwater fish in any such waters;
he shall be guilty of an offence against this Act. (Section 4, as amended by First Schedule, Fishery Limits Act, 1964).
Notes:
(a) For meanings of "salmon" and "freshwater fish", see Section 24(1) herein.
(b) It should be noted that subsections (a) and (b) above apply to all kind of fish while subsection (c) is confined to salmon and freshwater fish.
(c) For provisions relating to illegal possession of salmon, trout, instruments, etc., in connection with offences against the above Section 4, see Section 7 herein and, for forfeiture of such articles, see Section 19.
(d) For power of search, see Section 11.
Please bear in mind this is Scottish legislation and I'm not sure how it translates into English legislation. I'm confident most of it will be the same.
HTH
Moonraker
17-11-2004, 23:30
Really useful info thanks Bowser.
Which Act does this part refer?
(a) For meanings of "freshwater fish", "inland waters", "rod and line", "salmon" and "trout", see Section 24(1) herein.
That would seen to give a definition of a 'rod'.
I thought that Scottish law differed from English law for fishing in that you can fish anywhere for freshwater fish 'except' where the proprietor or authorities have posted notice to the contrary? Tis may also reflect the different laws relating to right of access, trespass relating to too the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 etc. Sorry to be vague :wink:
I think some info I read was in this (free to d/l I think):
SCOTTISH LAW COMMISSION
Report on a reference under section 3(1)(e) of the Law Commissions Act 1965
Report on Law of the Foreshore and Sea Bed
I read it up when looking at the right to take fish and light fires on the foreshore a little while back.
do you guys ever wonder where the idiots come from that dream these laws up!!. bow hunting is very popular over here and I think some states allow fishing with bow. I've even seen articles on fishing with atlatles but I will try and track some down on bowfishing for you.
Grooveski
31-08-2005, 16:44
I had a look about a while ago and found the same listing as Bowser posted above. Looking over it, it's clear that bowfishing is no-go as arrows don't show up on the list.
Quicks confuses me a bit. I was phoning in an order once and asked out of curiosity why they didn't sell broadheads within the UK.
From asking a few police friends, I belive that possessing broadheads is not a crime and you can happily blow big chunks out of targets on private land if you wish to so.
It is a crime to hunt with them, and also to sell them for the purpose of hunting. The reply from the chappie at Quicks was that they didn't know what folk were going to do with anything they sold, so to be on the safe side they just didn't sell broadheads within the UK.
Yet they sell fishing arrows......
...hmmm. :confused:
Anyone know what the laws are about using harpoon guns in coastal waters? All I was able to find were a few regulations saying you couldn't use them on whales and dolphins. I know harpoon guns aren't bows but would be interested in reading the legislation on them anyway.