Karrimor

[tenbears10]

I saw Maddave's post about rucksacks just now and it got me thinking. Who know's for definite if karrimor is no more or not? Now I don't just want "some bloke down the pub said....." we need facts people!! I looked at their site and it is fairly inconclusive karrimor (http://www.karrimor.com/) It looks like they have divided the company into sections with all the military stuff being sold through PRI for example. What happens to all those lifetime warranties we paid extra for?

I know all the shops went bump (nice phrase Dave) and they sold everything half price but they have either closed or been bought now. Are they still producing new gear and selling under different brands or just suppliers?

Bill

[Stuart]

they have most likley been bought out by another company that will continue to produce equipment under the karrimor name

[Rabbit]

I have had a Karrimor Sabre 45 for going on 4 years, I bought it from the company Bill mentions (PRI) so I went on to there web site pri.uk.com, they have been producing the Karrimor police and military collection for years. I guess this means that if you got your kit from them they are still under guarantee.

[Ed]

What happens to all those lifetime warranties we paid extra for?
'Lifetime' is one of those odd things. You'll find its for the lifetime of the company, not the bag or you. If the company has gone belly up then the warranty is worthless.... the companies lifetime has ended. If they have been bought out you may be lucky and find that the new company will honour the warranty (it may have been part of the buy ouy deal)...... they may not though.

:-)
Ed

[Stuart]

OK I have just checked and the facts are:

Karrimor went into liquidation after buying the YHA chain and failing to make it work they were bought by Lonsdale Sports

[tenbears10]

Thanks guys.

So we will have to see if Lonsdale keep the factory going and produce karrimor products or if they farm out the profitable bits (millitary, bike stuff and rucksacks I would have thought) and scrap the rest.

Bill

[tomtom]

or will we see Karrimor on handbags in oxfordstreet windows as we do now with Lord Lonsdales boxing Equipment name.

someone at Karrimor must have been pretty useless with cooking the books to take down YHA with them!

[tenbears10]

Or to let YHA take karrimor down. The YHA shops had been fairly badly run for a long time.

Bill

[alick]

Hmmm. A product manufacturer with no experience of running a retail operation buys a failing retailer and expects to turn it around. Interesting strategy. Which one of arrogance or stupidity was it I wonder ?

I don't know the background to this so the above may be unfair, but it makes the point that it's always worth asking the really blunt questions when it comes to business strategy.

[Rod]

Hi,

I work in the outdoor industry and can confirm that Karrimor were bought out this year by the Sport Soccer chain. We are all waiting to see what happens with the brand from here, but old favourites like the Karrimat are now extinct, we are having to source a compatible product from elsewhere.

PRI are making the mil sacs - I think that they bought the pattern rights. I'll dig arround and find out about the warrenty issue for you. I own a hot earth pack, so I have queries myself

regards

[tenbears10]

Thanks Grasshopper I would be interested to know.

I thought that might be the case with the lines they list on the webpage I posted first.

Bill

[Adi007]

When I enquired, I was told that warranties issued by Karrimor are not being honoured by PRI or Lonsdale.

[tenbears10]

That is a shame because one of the good features was the gold star guarantee they provided and who expected Karrimor to go bump?

Bill

[JakeR]

I worked in "Kudos" which was called "YHA adventure stores" (which was first owned by YHA then Karrimor). Karrimor closed all their shops and sold them to private buyers. I know that berghaus are interested in taking the "Karrimor" name. Not sure of the situation now, i certainly heard about Soccer links.

[Rod]

Hi Guys,

Have made some enquiries with our After Sales team at work. Guarantees on any Karrimor product sold after March 2004 will be honoured by the new company owners. If before - then, it would appear, we are on our own!

Hope this doesn't cause too much :rant:

cheers

[Andy]

thats a right pile of poo

I didn't like a lot of the newer karrimor stuff anyway. Just how many daisy chain links do you need with karrimr writton on each link? I thought they must be making lots of money if they were taking YHO over though.
Whats the garentee on lowe alpine stuff?

[tenbears10]

Whats the garentee on lowe alpine stuff?

No where near as good as Karrimor used to be IIRC. Looks like macpac which do have a good guarantee and excellent quality control (they pitch + check every single tent before it leaves the factory!)

Bill

[johnboy]

Hi,

It's sad that karrimor are well no more... I have an Alpiniste 45 that they fixed for free on numerous occasions.

MacPac have also had their problems. They have moved all of their production from Christchurch in NZ (laying off their manufacturing staff in the process) off shore to China. Their was a big Article in NZ Wilderness Magazine a few Months back centered around this and how it might affect MacPac's legendary quality. Having worked extensively in mainland China, I cannot see a Chinese Subcontractor "pitching every tent" prior to it leaving the factory!!!

Cheers

John

[althe1]

I have just received an email from PRI, so this should set the record straight.

Karrimor's Sabre range of rucsacs has been manufactured by PRI under licence since the 90's utilising the same patterns, fabrics and components and to the same high standard of production. When Karrimor went into receivership it's assets (brand names, designs, stock, etc.) were purchased by the Lonsdale group. PRI still retains its Karrimor licence and continues to develop and manufacture the Sabre range of rucsacs under the Karrimor SF brand name. Guarantees on all Sabre bags sold by PRI remain valid.

I hope this helps guys

[Hellz]

phew, thanks for that :biggthump

Mind you, I just got a Karrimor Delta 25 for my birthday and it is very well put together so don't expect it to fail. Bit more peace of mind though :-)

Hellz

[tenbears10]

MacPac have also had their problems. They have moved all of their production from Christchurch in NZ (laying off their manufacturing staff in the process) off shore to China. Their was a big Article in NZ Wilderness Magazine a few Months back centered around this and how it might affect MacPac's legendary quality. Having worked extensively in mainland China, I cannot see a Chinese Subcontractor "pitching every tent" prior to it leaving the factory!!!

Cheers

John

Found that after I had posted John. That is a big shame because the last catalogue I had from them was full of "what a great kiwi company we are" and how all the products were NZ originals designed and made.

I suppose if everyone else is making stuff abroard at a fraction of the manufacturing costs you either join them or go bust.

Quality definitely suffers. I had the chance to compare karrimor's top of the range KSB's when they switched production from Italy to China and the difference was amazing. The new Chinese ones being utter rubbish compared to the old ones. Funny the price was still the same they never seem to pass on the savings they make to the customer.

Companies should not forget that we do know where their stuff is produced and we notice when they change. Some of Lowe Alpine's far east stuff is mass produced crap but soon there will be no alternative by the look of it.

Bill

[EdS]

I'll say it again, if you want a bag that will take a lot of hammer and with an even better gaurantee thank the old Karrimor Gold Star check out Aguille Alpine Equipment.

[johnboy]

Found that after I had posted John. That is a big shame because the last catalogue I had from them was full of "what a great kiwi company we are" and how all the products were NZ originals designed and made.

I suppose if everyone else is making stuff abroard at a fraction of the manufacturing costs you either join them or go bust.

Quality definitely suffers. I had the chance to compare karrimor's top of the range KSB's when they switched production from Italy to China and the difference was amazing. The new Chinese ones being utter rubbish compared to the old ones. Funny the price was still the same they never seem to pass on the savings they make to the customer.

Companies should not forget that we do know where their stuff is produced and we notice when they change. Some of Lowe Alpine's far east stuff is mass produced crap but soon there will be no alternative by the look of it.

Bill

Hi,

Yep it's sad that Mac Pac had to go off shore but its also an economic reality for them I guess.

I think quality always suffers when manufactures do this.

This is from Mac Pac's website

"Since deciding to move most of our manufacture to Asian countries in 2003 our experience has been that excellent quality exists and that, as with everything, you get what you pay for."

You get what you pay for.

So what are they saying? Their paying above the average rate in Asia to secure better quality from their subcontractor? Then why move off shore?

Obviously they are saving money and enjoying an increased margin on the product. Have you noticed Mac Pac gear comming down in price?

So if they are not dropping prices and their margin has increased then the decision to move off shore was not really about having to face up to stiffer compitition and reducing prices it was about maximising the margin on the product.

So quality ( and a bunch of manufacturing jobs) were traded for a hike in product margin.

Thats business

From my experience the problem with manufacture within China is not so much the ability of the worker to do the actual job, sewing a seam on a tent for example. It's just a lack of fundemental understanding of the product they are making. Our cultures are so different, lightweight camping doesn't really exist in China so to the machinist making the product, the need for quality is a grey area. They understand the task but not the product they are making.

As for Karrimor well it's sad I thought that they had some great products in their range. What is also sad is that of course now that they have gone into liquidation all of their surplus stock is being sold off really cheap.

Which must give companys like PRI a bit of a headache. For example Sabre 30 rucksacks at 20 quid instead of 70 quid. You'd be daft not to grab one or two with prices like that?!! The knock on effect is it hits PRI's sales (perhaps to the point of sending them over the edge into liquidation. lets hope not)

I hope that Karrimor finds a buyer soon its in our interest as consumers of outdoor equipment that they do. I'm less worried about the short term lack of a warranty, I am more concerned that slowly we have less and less choice in the range of products available and the quality of those products that are available is slowly reducing.

Sorry if this a bit off topic.

Cheers

John

[tenbears10]

I don't think it's off topic at all John. All of this explains the demise of Karrimor and the situation in the market now.

I know what you are saying about the sabre's I can't see how pri can cope when exactly the same products are being sold at 70% discount. I bet they can't wait for the old stock to run out, which it will soon enough.

Lets hope we can buy some karrimor products from decent suppliers in the future. Karrimor rucksacks were always my favorite and it will be a shame if they just disappear.

Bill