View Full Version : Folder Features
I'm designing a folder with features that would be suitable for bushcrafting use. I want this to be a legal carry anywhere knife with obvious exceptions, like the man said, the best survival knife is the one you have with you at the time. So its going to be a non locking single blade under 3 inches long. Apart from that, I'm open to suggestions, should the handle be fat for hand filling comfort for prolonged use or slim for easy carry, should it have a flat, convex or scandi grind, should the blade shape be sharply pointed for detailed carving and boring or have a lot of belly for easy slicing. Please let me know, I would build a few prototypes for people to have a passaround in the new year.
C_Claycomb
11-11-2004, 13:13
I like a good bit of point on knives for outdoors use. A little more point and less belly than say a Sebenza, but still in drop point (which I think looks better than spear point :roll: ) 3" x 3/4 x 1/8 ?
A handle doesn't have to be too wide, but great care needs to be taken to ensure that the area that the web of the hand rests on is rounded. When making feather sticks, or other high pressure cuts, a lot of knives (like the Seb) dig in uncomfortable.
I think a high flat grind with a small secondary bevel (either flat or convex) would be the most use. Bearing in mind that to be truely useful to you in the emergency you have to have been carrying the knife. So, the knife has to be useful for non-emergency jobs, like cutting up lunch, opening parcels, trimming your nails and such :lol: Scandi grinds are good for wood work, but they don't slice as easily as higher grinds, they also leave the blade pretty heavy unless you go to thinner stock.
Most of the bushcraft schools don't like folders, they say they break too easily. The challenge is to make something that will stand up to Bushcrafter Abuse :rolmao:
should the handle be fat for hand filling comfort for prolonged use or slim for easy carry,
presonaly id like something Fat and Filling :biggthump
RovingArcher
11-11-2004, 15:48
Bushcraft and non locking, short bladed folders are almost contradictory terms. However, if you can carry a multitool like a SAK that has a saw blade as well as an awl, you would be hard pressed to do better.
TheViking
11-11-2004, 16:11
A knife, saw and awl (also functions as drill and scraper) is the most useful tools. The scissors are handy when you have to sew something together and the star-screwdriver, I tend to use as marlin spike. :roll: (and fix my airgun :lol: )
Everything is in the Outrider and it's not too wide. I use every tool on it, but these above is the most useful. :biggthump
C_Claycomb
11-11-2004, 16:14
Bushcraft and non locking, short bladed folders are almost contradictory terms.
Well, so is "Fighting Folder" but plenty of people have a go. :wink:
Seriously though, I think Shing's idea has merrit. It would be nice to be able to have a single blade, Every Day Carry knife, that has a bushcraft background rather than a "tactical" one. Making it non-locking means that we in the UK can carry it without fear of imprisonment :lol:
SAKs are great as a way to bundle tools, but the blades aren't really up to all that much compared to a single blade folder using steel optimised for cutting rather than compromising for manufacture and high stain resistance.
Here's my two cents. :-) The blade should be wide and thin. Flat ground is fine as is convex. A point good enough to hollow out a hole in a board and a handle that is broad enough that you can whittle with it for an hour without hurting your hand. I prefer a knife with a lock. If you are "drilling" a hole in a piece of wood, you run the risk of the blade closing on your fingers. In a survival situation, this would only add to your risk. No ricasso allows you to cut close to the handle, giving you more power. No finger grooves and a handle that is comfortable held with the blade up or down. I like a bit of a "guard" build into the handle but not too much.
Here are my two favorite outdoor folders. Both have been used hard, have split wood and carved fireboards, and have shown no signs of wear. The BM 721 (bottom) I have carried for several years now and find it utterly reliable. The RSK (top) I have only recently started carrying but spent two days in the field with it testing it with some pretty hard use. Either style blade gets the job done for me.
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/images8/bmedc1b.jpg
right I'll just try and list what I'd like
blade
*flat grind with small secondary bevel edge or maybe a convex
*deep blade 20mm or so
*I'd go for about 2.5mm (maybe 3mm max)thick at spine
*drop point-get the point point about 12mm from the lowest point of the blade
*70-75mm long (curve for point starting about 25mm from the tip)
*stainless steel (I just like stainless folders) I really like VG10 but haven't tried other really high end steels (only others are SAK or nieto with 440C)
*thumbstud- as close to the pivot as possible otherwise they get in the way (I really want a spyderco with a hole)
Handle
*rounded handle
*something that can take been soaked in water. (can micarta cope with that)
*not solid metal -it's just nasty when cold
*held on by small torx screws just incase
*curved slightly down at oppisite end to pivot
*not set places for fingers (really wish the wasp didn't have that)
then give the whole thing a finish that wont show scratches up too much
I may have to commision someone to make me this at some point
when i grow up i want to be just like Hoodoo..a knife for every occasion :wave:
Thanks for the feedback so far, I had in mind a heavy duty folder with with a thick wide blade for strength and ease of cutting. The sort of folder you can use for the occasional batoning as well as carving and slicing. It would be of modular construction so that damaged or worn parts can be replaced without too much trouble and easy to take apart and clean if you happen to get too much gunk in it. I also had in mind using wood scales for the handles to keep in the spirit of bushcraft rather than hi tech plastic found on a lot of heavy duty folders at present.
look forward to seeing it!
Would a slipjoint Spyderco Native fit the bill?
www.heinnie.com/cgi-bin/heinnie_store/web_store.cgi?page=FRATOTAB/knives.htm&cart_id=
Danzo
maybe.. :?:
...but you can be sure a shing will :biggthump
Poo! The link just goes to Heinnies homepage, not specifically the Native.
:?:
Danzo
TheViking
13-11-2004, 16:09
Spyderco Native (http://www.heinnie.com/spyder/SC78BK.jpg)
what does a spydraco native have to do with shings folder anyway?
RovingArcher
13-11-2004, 17:00
Shing (and others), do the laws for knife carry also affect how stout the springs in the knife are? I carry a German issue folding utility knife that has some pretty potent springs, making the knife strong for a non locking blade, yet the blade can be folded closed with a bit of effort and a solid snap, as compared to a SAK.
as far as know.. as long as it only takes one movement at all times to fold it then its ok!
what does a spydraco native have to do with shings folder anyway?
Sorry for being vague!
:roll:
What I meant was that the Native, which locks, might be a good pattern for a slipjoint bushcrafty folder. It has a very pointy point, a thick, wide, strong blade, plenty of belly and is three inches long. Thanks for the link Andy.
:biggthump
Danzo
the indent for the index finger would have to go though
clip point bushcraft knife you could open a can of worms with that
I question the idea of making a folder that will stand up to really hard work. To make something that will do this you have to add a fair amount of weight to it. If it's heavy peope would just carry thier lighter knife for general stuff and save this for bushcraft. At that point they then decide a fixed blade knife is the same weight and they have a good reason for carrying it.
Then again I don't like big folders but others do.
cool, cheers Denzo :wink:
A heavy duty folder could be quite heavy but can be made lighter with titanium liners. I think people would get a lot more out of a legal carry folder than a fixed blade because you can carry and use it virtually anywhere unlike a fixed blade, a fixed blade with a 3 inch blade would have to be at least 7 inches long for comfortable use. A folder however strongly made will not be a subsitute for an equally well made fixed blade in all circumstances but its not going to get you into a hassle with the law if you go through a village or town or risk having your fixed blade confiscated by a sceptical bobby. I like the Native design, I think what I can do for users is to make a knife closer to their ideal, if you want to supply your own wood for the handle scales or have nickel silver bolsters with a engraved silver shield, no problem
rapidboy
14-11-2004, 21:06
IMO ,a folding bushcraft knife is unnecessary.
Firstly i consider a folding knife especially a non locking knife to be dangerous for heavy work.
Secondly on the subject of legal carry I do not find myself in a "bushcraft" situation unexpectedly ,(that would be a "survival" situation).
Bushcraft for me is always a planned activity like hunting therefore i can justify carrying a suitable fixed blade knife.
As for moving through "sensitive" area's on your way to and from a suitable location then i think the sensible option would be to conceal a fixed blade in a rucksack along with the other bushcraft items you will be carrying ie tarp ,cooking pot etc.
I do see a use for a small knife and possibly a folder to accompany a fixed blade like a SAK or an Opinel for food preparation etc but a flat grind "bushcraft" knife is actually a disadvantage for these type of tasks.
rb