View Full Version : Wilkinson Sword/Allan Wood Woodlore Knives
Some of you may have seen the new Wilkinson Sword versions of the Allan Wood Woodlore knife on Ray Mears' site. My question is: what is the major difference between the Allan Wood and Wilkinson Sword versions? They both seem to be the same shape/size and the steel is - I assume - pretty much the same too. The Micarta-handled blade is also about 60 and 100 quid less expensive than the Bird's-eye Maple handle and Allan Wood pieces respectively.
The fact that the Bird's-eye Wilkinson Sword blade is not that much cheaper than the Allan Wood blade might suggest that they are pretty much on a par. Is this the case?
I can only think that the Wilkinson Sword knives have much less waiting time if you want to buy one; however, if the Micarta-handled blade has 90% of the functionality of the Allan Wood blade for half the price, it does seem an attractive option.
What say you?
I can only think that the Wilkinson Sword knives have much less waiting time if you want to buy one; however, if the Micarta-handled blade has 90% of the functionality of the Allan Wood blade for half the price, it does seem an attractive option.
What say you?
Get yourself over to British Blades and have a look at the Felleskap blade by Trond, a Norwegian bladesmith. The blade shape is his interpretation of Mears' design, and I think a little more aesthetically pleasing. He supplies just the blade, which you can put a handle on yourself, or there is at least one person on British Blades who'll make you a handle
Oh and you'll not only save a packet, but also have that warm feeling when you finish the knife yourself
Nick Wheeler made this one and Jamie Knowlden put the scales on. The sheath was made by Jamie Briggs. The blade is made of O2 (awesome heat treat by Nick, a true rising star in the knife world) and he ground the blade with a tapered tang which gives it great balance. The overall cost is 1/3 what Mears charges for his Woodlore. The downside is that there is a waiting list to get on the waiting list. This was a "forum knife" for a forum I used to moderate.
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/bpack/nh/osfligvit2c.jpg
nice blade hoodoo i'm waiting for a couple of jamie's woodlaw sheaths to get to me should be here soon he has a good website well worth a look
I am waiting for mine, hope to get it soon.
can't wait to get mine either....
for a forum I used to moderate.
hoodoo, the new master of understatement. :-? :lol:
cheers, and.
I can only think that the Wilkinson Sword knives have much less waiting time if you want to buy one; however, if the Micarta-handled blade has 90% of the functionality of the Allan Wood blade for half the price, it does seem an attractive option.
What say you?
Functionally, they are all identical. The micarta handled one is (or should be - we have yet to see them IRL) 100% of the functionality of all of the others. The difference is not in function, but more esoteric. The WS blades are factory made, the Alan Wood blade is hand made. As working tools, they will be or should be identical. You pay more for this hand made knife, not because it's functionally superior, but simply because it's hand made.
nice blade hoodoo i'm waiting for a couple of jamie's woodlaw sheaths to get to me should be here soon he has a good website well worth a look
I think you will like his sheaths. This is one of the most solid leather sheaths I have ever seen. He's working on another one for me right now. Very snug and secure fit too.
I believe Ray approached Wilkinson sword for two reasons
1 to cut down waiting times by getting the knives mass produced.
2 to reduce cost.
I havent seen the new knives so I cant comment on them but if it were me I would still prefer to buy the old, hand made, one especially as there seems to be little or no diference in cost between those and the new factory finished ones unless to opt for a Micarta one of course.
on a course i was on earlier this year, one of the guys took an unplanned swim with a real woodlore knife on his belt. there was a noticeable amount of swelling on the scales afterwards. i'd suggest that you get more functionality from a micarta handled version.
cheers, and.
on a course i was on earlier this year, one of the guys took an unplanned swim with a real woodlore knife on his belt. there was a noticeable amount of swelling on the scales afterwards. i'd suggest that you get more functionality from a micarta handled version.
cheers, and.
For £200 I wouldn't have expected that!
Was there any permanent damage?
on a course i was on earlier this year, one of the guys took an unplanned swim with a real woodlore knife on his belt. there was a noticeable amount of swelling on the scales afterwards. i'd suggest that you get more functionality from a micarta handled version.
cheers, and.
Very possibly! ;)
Celtic Dragon
24-11-2003, 21:08
Nick Wheeler has done himeslf proud with that knife, its ooohhh so sexy.
Well done Nick
Simon
Yup, I'm tickled pink about that knife. :-D Here's another one he ground. The first one is made from 5/32" stock and this one is 1/8" stock and both are O1. I put the micarta scales on this knife. You should be able to see the tapered tang in this shot. Nick also made some of these blades by forging, which is mainly what he does. This project was something he did basically as a favor to a bunch of us who wanted full tang scandis.
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/images4/OSFmicarta1b.jpg
My wish list to santa is growing...
on a course i was on earlier this year, one of the guys took an unplanned swim with a real woodlore knife on his belt. there was a noticeable amount of swelling on the scales afterwards. i'd suggest that you get more functionality from a micarta handled version.
cheers, and.
I have to say that I have taken a few dunks and mine's been fine. I've even left it in a bowl of water for a few hours and it's been ok. But there again mine may be impregnated with oils etc from my big sweaty hands :rolmao: A self waterproofing handle....
For anyone waiting for one of the Wilkinson Sword models, "early December" has been added to the ETA.
I'm waiting on an email for the explanation.
I forgot to mention that the scales in the first knife are of Lignum Vitae (Guaiacum officinale).
http://www.lignum-vitae.com/page3.html
For anyone waiting for one of the Wilkinson Sword models, "early December" has been added to the ETA.
I'm waiting on an email for the explanation.
I had the sales confirmation letter come through from Wilkys and it says Dec 19th as expected delivery date.(Micarta version)
While speaking to WS when waiting for my Dartmoor I was really surprised to find out that there's only about a dozen blokes in total working in the factory producing these knives, so have some pity on them as there must be hundreds of orders in for the RM knives, plus all the other stuff they have on.
I sort of take the delivery time with a pinch of salt now. I figure the longer I have to wait, the more I'll appreciate it.............as long as its before Xmas!! :wink:
Hi,
I emailed woodlore about the delivery. Here's their response.
"Hi John
We are waiting on Wilkinson Sword. Sorry! They had a problem with the USA supplier and have had to source another supplier, which they have done so they should be with us shortly. "
USA supplier !!!!
I wonder what for?
cheers
John
Would that be for the Micarta?
Isn't that an american registered (copyright etc) product?
Maybe??
But I would have thought that Micarta is available in the UK??!
Maybe the components are made in the US and then shipped to the UK for assembly and finishing?????????????
Any how looks like they are delayed.
Cheers
John
"Hi John
No later than 10.12.03 fingers crossed!"
Latest from Woodlore.
So fingers crossed then :wink:
cheers
John
PROBABLY GET THE BLADE BLANKS FROM USA - STEELS CHEAPER THERE.
Hi,
I emailed woodlore about the delivery. Here's their response.
"Hi John
We are waiting on Wilkinson Sword. Sorry! They had a problem with the USA supplier and have had to source another supplier, which they have done so they should be with us shortly. "
USA supplier !!!!
I wonder what for?
cheers
John
Micarta is an American product, it's not made in the UK.
Curly burch, however, is a little more acessible.
Both knives are delayed. ????
Celtic Dragon
26-11-2003, 19:51
Probably the steel. Uk manufactures are few and far between, and with the amount they buy its probably ceaper to get it straight from the factory.
Simon
Hmmm, 01 or B01 (the British equivalent) is in plentiful supply in the UK.
Maths test for you.
Woodlore/Alan wood hand made knife with neck/firesteel sheath and maple handle £195
Woodlore/wilkinson sword factory made knife £165 neck sheath for fire steel £45.
Which one's the bargain?
You're right the maths is lousy.
But.... (and I'm not defending Woodlore here) I guess the point is that if you want a knife quickly then the long wait for the Alan wood bushcraft knife is probably unacceptable for you. So I guess you will be willing to pay almost as much for a quicker turnaround. However if you want a ray designed knife with an excellent specification then the Micarta version has to be the best deal of all.
It'll be interesting once the knifes finally turn up and get dispatched then we will be able to compare and see if they are such a great deal after all.
Cheers
John
Good lord! What have I started!?!
Who's going to do the knife review when they start coming through, then?
Hey guys, let me offer you an alternative. You might want to consider the Bushcrafter from Allan Blade. This is an extremely nice scandi-ground knife with a coffin tang that is also pinned. so you get the best of both worlds-a full tang and a hidden tang which is more comfy in the winter on bare hands. Allan is an absolutely superb knifemaker and I don't make that claim lightly. You get absolute perfection from him in terms of fit and finish. That tang is wonderfully fitted to the handle. In short, it's an awesome knife. The steel is precision ground Starret O1 steel and Allan knows his stuff when it comes to heat treat. Not to mention, there are few knifemakers out there that can hold a candle to Allan when it comes to grinding a knife. I have two of his knife grinding videos so I've seen the man in action.
Now the only "complaint" I have of the Buschcrafter is that I think maybe some might perfer a bit wider handle but Allan is a custom maker and I'm sure he will give you whatever you want. For instance, mine is in micarta but I'm willing to bet Allan will also do a Bushcrafter in Bocote or Osage orange because I have two of his little Pack Pals (another awesome knife priced unbelievably low), one with Bacote and one with Osage Orange scales.
I paid $125 for my Bushcrafter. I think he will add a firesteel holder for $12 or $15. The finish is sandblast but if you want a hand rubbed finish, it will cost more. Sheaths are kydex and Allan makes one of the best kydex sheaths out there. So for $125 you get a custom made knife with a perfect scandi grind, a bonus coffin tang perfectly fitted, and you won't be waiting for a year either. But I would not wait too long. I got a feeling Allan's knives are going to go into high demand (I'm writing an article about them right now for Tactical Knives). He's been in high demand before but due to personal problems, fell off the radar. But he's back and he's good. I'm guessing that the waiting time is around a couple months. Well worth it in my opinion. Just my two cents but I thought you folks might be interested.
You can contact him here: BladeCutlery2003@aol.com
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/images4/bushcraftknives1c.jpg
Maths test for you.
Woodlore/Alan wood hand made knife with neck/firesteel sheath and maple handle £195
Woodlore/wilkinson sword factory made knife £165 neck sheath for fire steel £45.
Which one's the bargain?
Is it me?
The RM/WS Birds Eye Maple handled version is still hand made, but with a shorter waiting time compared to the Woods version. Comes with hand stitched sheath too, though not the neck version, but I'd just put some cord through the belt loop.
The Micarta version is factory made with a machine stitched sheath hence the difference in price over the others. I think this one is the real bargain...after all, when in use will we be able to tell the difference bewteen them all.
It's nice to have all the options available though.
Mmmmmm
The woodlore website now quotes "delivery end of January" for the micarta version.
Oh dear!
john
Somethings afoot.
It actually says "Please note delivery: end January 2004"
for *both* the micarta and birch handled versions.
I wonder if this is for a second delivery, or if the original delivery is delayed?
We're now looking at a 3 month delay from the original October delivery.
bigjackbrass
29-11-2003, 00:31
On the subject of cost, Woodlore charge £45 for either the neck sheath or belt sheath if bought as a separate item, so buying the Wilkinson Maple knife with a neck sheath means that you are actually getting a knife and two sheaths for the money (Woodlore state that they will not substitute one sheath for the other). Even so, and especially in light of the increasing waiting period, the original knife looks a slightly better deal to me. Presumably once the initial production hiccoughs are out of the way the Wilkinson versions should be in stock throughout the year, but those of you now looking at a post-Christmas delivery must be feeling pretty cheesed off.
On the subject of the woodlore and delays, I have just heard from woodlore...
" ...We are expecting our first delivery of knives by the 10.12.03 for all the orders made up to 28.11.03. Any orders from 28.11.03 will not get delivery until January. Wilkinson Sword ....assure me that they will have our back orders in time for Christmas."
That's something.
So it looks like the new January delivery is for orders placed on 28.11.03 and after!
Wonder if WS will make the wednesday deadline? If they do, and woodlore are fast, some of us may get our blades by Friday. .....maybe.
My girlfriend is getting me the micarta WS for christmas, she called woodlore last week and they gave her the 12 dec as the date they are getting them in.
Can't wait to get it now,
Brian
My girlfriend is getting me the micarta WS for christmas
top chick!!! 8-)
has she got any sisters??? :lol:
cheers, and.
edited to add: "top chick" is the highest form of accolade that can be bestowed on a lady, and has absolutely no negative or derogatory connotations whatsoever.
At the risk of emptying my water bottle onto your camp fire, I spoke to Wilkinson Sword yesterday afternoon and they told me that they are still working towards the 19th. I said that the 10th had been quoted on the Woodlore site, but she said she had checked with the production team and they said 19th would be the date they were ready to ship out. :cry:
I asked that as I'd ordered mine direct, if it would be later than the Woodlore ones but she said no, Woodlore and direct orders would all be completed at the same time.
Sorry everyone.....I hope they come sooner too, I want mine for Xmas. It was originally to be a birthday present, that was Nov 3rd!!!! :roll:
Sorry everyone.....I hope they come sooner too, I want mine for Xmas. It was originally to be a birthday present, that was Nov 3rd!!!! :roll:
Ordered mine in September! :roll:
Blimey Martyn, you've got some patience!!
Ah well, 19th is only 10 days away now.
got a phonecall this morning from Woodlore, they wanted to know if I'd be available to sign for my knife tomorrow morning.
I said I was busy.... NOT! :-D :-D :-D :-D
Anyone else get a call?
Sorry everyone.....I hope they come sooner too, I want mine for Xmas. It was originally to be a birthday present, that was Nov 3rd!!!! :roll:
Ordered mine in September! :roll:
Martyn, excellent that you're going to get it before Xmas.
My wife bought me Ray's book for Christmas 01, I ordered the knife soon after. It arrived just in time for her to give it to me for Christmas 02 !
I'm a lucky beggar, but your wait hasn't been too bad considering.
You could test it out in the new year by turning your Christmas tree into firewood. Have fun :lol:
Yahooo, it's arrived. Pics and comments to follow after I've played with it for a while. ;)
MartiniDave
17-12-2003, 13:34
I'm delighted for you Martyn. Hopefully mine won't be too far behind it!
Have fun an mind your fingers! :shock: :-D :-D
Dave
I want mine!! I want mine!!
Congrats Martyn.........what's it like then?
Was it the Micarta or the Mirds eye maple that you ordered?
Well, here it is....
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood8.jpg
First impressions - wow, it's certainly beefy. Slightly dissapointed with the finish of the blade, very highly polished, which is fine, but it was covered all over with freckles of rust. This is a gross oversight from the WS factory, it looks as though the blade has not been treated with oil or any kind of wax at all, then stored in the sheath. There was even freckles of rust on the grind - obviously a storage issue. These freckles have pitted the surface of the blade. I polished the blade immediately with Flitz and got the rust off. It's not a big issue for a working knife, but I would expect better from an outfit like WS - and the knife aint cheap at £160.
I'm not gonna comment beyond this, as there will be a full review in good time from the britishblades/bushcraftUK review team. :-D
Here are some pics though...
First, that pitting on the blade surface from the rust spots...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood3.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood4.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood6.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood9.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood13.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood11.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood1.jpg
Hmmmm, "Made in England" doesnt that warm yer heart? :-D :-D
Very nice, now get out and use it :o): :yikes: :ekt:
ummmm yes. very nice, and just in time for christmas.... I wonder how many people are now hoping there prezzie has arrived and is under the tree.
:-)
Ed
I just realised, as today is the first shipment to the public, I guess I'm one of the first people in the country to see one of these and my knife is prolly one of the first dozen or so off the production line - cool. :-D
The micarta handled version is supposed to be shipping out on friday - if they ship special delivery then you'll get it Sat a.m. - I've one of those comming too. :wink: :-D
I'd be interested to know if anyone else gets the rust freckles. If you do, and you dont have any Flitz metal polish, you can use toothpaste. Then oil/wax with whatever.
That's certainly a beauty! I like the sheath too. Strange about the rust spots though. That shouldn't happen with a NIB knife, especially one of this price and quality.
Strange about the rust spots though. That shouldn't happen with a NIB knife, especially one of this price and quality.
Absolutely agree. It's not a huge issue as the knife is a user (and I should point out that the above photo is an enlarged macro shot which magnifies the problem significantly), but it definitely should not happen. A rub over with any kind of wax would have easily prevented it. Really quite shocking from a company like Wilkinson Sword, they should know better.
I'm getting mine direct from WS. Micarta version. Rang them yesterday afternoon and they told me it will be sent next week and will def be here before Xmas.
They use a courier though rather than Royal Mail and the Courier doesn't do Sat delivery, so even if they post it on the Friday I won't get it till Monday.
Yours looks really good though Martyn, shame about the rust. Unacceptable from a company of such standing. Phone Wilky and complain. I had a moan about the performance of the Dartmoor when it arrived and they asked me to fill in a feedback form, then gave me a discount on my Micarta that's why I got it direct rather than from Ray's site.
Lovely pics.
Colin KC
18-12-2003, 17:45
Spoke with Rachel (via email) & she said HOPEFULLY ship Friday, should get it on Monday.
So, prolly using a Courier, like Nod said
I'm waiting for a Micarta handled Woodlore knife, ordered 17th October. E-mail from Rachel today: some were delivered to Woodlore Friday, she is driving to WS tomorrow (Sunday) to collect the remainder. She said they'll be sent out Monday with guaranteed 24hr delivery. At last! :-D
This is my first post, so i s'pose I should say a bit about myself. (Odd place to do it, perhaps?) Anyway, I've been messing about outdoors for 25+ years, but not really in a bushcraft sense, more walking, mountaineering, camping, sailing - so some things are new to me, some aren't, but I'm always learning.
I am very tempted to invest in a Micarta version (well, after I've got over December's bills anyway).
Has anyone got one yet? What do you think? It's apparently not handmade - is the blade somehow different? Is there any advantage with either price or speed of delivery in ordering direct from Wilkinson? How much do Wooflore and Wilkinson charge for postage?
mm...just noticed a typo there.....
I am very tempted to invest in a Micarta version (well, after I've got over December's bills anyway).
Has anyone got one yet? What do you think? It's apparently not handmade - is the blade somehow different? Is there any advantage with either price or speed of delivery in ordering direct from Wilkinson? How much do Wooflore and Wilkinson charge for postage?
mm...just noticed a typo there.....
Mine hasn't arrived yet, but as far as the blade goes, it should be identical. It's only the handle slabs which are hand carved on the knife above, the blade is factory ground on both of them, so there should be no difference between the blades of the micarta knife and the one in the pics above.
Colin KC
22-12-2003, 00:56
there should be no difference between the blades of the micarta knife and the one in the pics above.
Unless the Micarta versions don't have the speckled effect, sorry Boss, but that WOULD be funny :wink:
there should be no difference between the blades of the micarta knife and the one in the pics above.
Unless the Micarta versions don't have the speckled effect, sorry Boss, but that WOULD be funny :wink:
Yeah, hilarious. :roll: :-D
[quote="Doc"]I am very tempted to invest in a Micarta version (well, after I've got over December's bills anyway).
Has anyone got one yet? What do you think? It's apparently not handmade - is the blade somehow different? Is there any advantage with either price or speed of delivery in ordering direct from Wilkinson? How much do Wooflore and Wilkinson charge for postage?
W-S charge for postage, last thing I got cost a tenner via a courier with no Saturday delivery so I had to wait four days!!! Woodlore don't charge. Wouldn't have thought there'd be much difference in speed though, unless W-S have sent all available items onto Woodlore and not saved any for themselves.
Mine arrived, but I was out - they're gonna redeliver tomorrow.
Colin KC
22-12-2003, 23:55
Mine arrived, but I was out - they're gonna redeliver tomorrow.
Hmph :-x :cry:
Colin KC
23-12-2003, 08:59
Mine arrived bright & early this morning, NO speckles :lol: :-P
The sheath is good & deep, finish is better than acceptable on a production piece of leather & fit of the knife is firm. I'd extend a hearty 8/10 for the sheath :-D
I have only two criticisms for the actual knife (& one of those doesn't affect me :wink: )
One is that, if you have bigger than average hands (mine are about average) it will seem like a toy to you, the handle is slim, with no flair of the otherwise perfect Micarta scales towards the blade & this makes me feel a teensy bit scared when grasping near the blade
The other criticism is that the finish is not one hundred percent (silly of me to expect it really :roll: ) some of the Micarta isn't finished well near the blade & the "front" ends are slightly uneven, the edge of the blade is slightly unfinished near the tip, but this is a very minor gripe & can be fixed in two shakes.
All in all, not a bad package for low-end custom money, you get a well designed knife, well executed & with two famous names on it (one of them producing the finest knife to come out of it's hallowed doors in many years.
Well done Ray Mears & Wilkinson Sword :-D
Mines on its way from W-S too.
:-)
Posted yesterday for delivery today B4 12........am currently "working from home", with anticipation.......
I know that mine arrived at 8 this morning, I know it's in the house, I'm just not allowed it until Christmas. It's a present from my wife and she's told me I can have it on the 25th and no amount of grovelling and pleading will change that. I'm sure that this is some form of torture, but she says that it will make it all the more special.
Enjoy
Brian
Stick with it man, you can cope...Unless she means Christmas 2004..Ahh Brian, go get it, just sneak it and stroke it, you can always say the bushcraft gods forced you :z:
Colin KC
23-12-2003, 11:33
On a bit of a more serious note Brian, make sure SWMBO hasn't left it inna sheath (otherwise it might end up like Martyns by Christmas day :yikes: )
Especially as the SWIMBO accidentally dropped it in the washing up bowl :twisted:
Andrew Middleton
23-12-2003, 13:23
I ordered my Alan Wood version in, I think, May and it will arrive end of Jan. I was feeling so self-righteous about my patience, but if I knew it was in the house and I couldn't have it I'd have to stay at work permanently!
You have all got me "unpatient". I'm just living off your reviews/excitment about the arrival of your knives. I hope you all get them before/at Christmas.
Perhaps we should rename this string as "Little Boys and Bushcraft"?
It's here....it's here. Arrived all nicely packaged with bubble wrap and a box.
The sheath is very nice, and the knife sits very snug inside. The knife itself is very nice to handle, fits my smallish hands very well, so I can see what Colin KC means about if you have larger hands etc. Looks like it will do the business for which it was intended so now all I need is a couple of hours outdoors to give it a go.
I like it very much. Here's hoping the rest arrive with you all soon too.[/img]
Thanks for all this info - my hands are pretty average size (7 and a half in glove size) so maybe a good choice.
Any pictures available (other than that on Woodlore's site)?
I tried to add one but couldn't work out how. Not a very good one, but enough to give you an idea, but not much better than the one on the woodlore site really.
Be happy to add one or two if someone tells me how :oops:
[/img][/url]
Just read the FAQ's and I won't be able to post piccys I'm afraid.
I'm sure once his Micarta version arrives, Martyn might be persuaded to post some pics similar to his great Birds Eye Maple ones.... won't you Martyn?
Colin KC
23-12-2003, 16:31
I'll post a pic on BB tonight & put the link here :-D
Colin KC
23-12-2003, 17:00
Well, picture's pants, but here it is :-D
http://www.britishblades.com/photopost/data/500/3Mears-med.JPG
So is the sofa Colin :lmao:
Colin KC
23-12-2003, 18:31
So is the sofa Colin :lmao:
Pot, kettle? :roll:
A whole new audience to view the delights of my sofa :-D
My Micarta handled knife arrived today. :-D
I'm very pleased with it and the sheath.
The blade has a smooth, mirror-like finish with no speckles - I think Martyn was just unlucky.
The handle fits my middling size hands well.
There was a slight nick in the edge towards the point, but as I thought the blade needed sharpening anyway that was no problem.
My opinion: good value.
MartiniDave
24-12-2003, 09:56
My Micarta version was waiting when I got home from work last night.
Very pleased with it so far.
Finnish is very good on the knife itself, the blade could be mistaken for stainless!
Sheath is well made and a very good fit.
I'm really looking forward to using this knife, hopefully for a long time.
Dave
Happy X-mas one and all.
How long will a Woodlore knife last, with 'normal' use and sharpening?
Colin KC
24-12-2003, 17:31
How long will a Woodlore knife last, with 'normal' use and sharpening?
Bit of a difficult question that really, depends on what youd call "normal" use. I have a small, folding knife that I've used on & off as my EDC for years & it now is obvious that it's been sharpened a bit (the blade profile is markedly different to the original) BUT, that is a 2 1/2" folding knife!
A proffessional Woodcraft Instructor, would prolly get through one in (he says picking some figures from the ether) 2-5 years
A proffessional gamekeeper/hunter, prolly a little longer (say) 2-7 years
A average Joe that "Goes Native" every weekend & a bit more inna summer, prolly 10-25 years
You realise that these figures are the result of extensive market surveys & as such may not be used by any (proffessional, or commercial) body (or, achully ANYbody, cos I jus' made 'em up :wink: )
Longer than it takes to lose it :shock:
How long will a Woodlore knife last, with 'normal' use and sharpening?
Well, I got my micarta knife when I got in from work yesterday.
I was struck by the nice finish on the micarta, the handle slabs were slightly less than symmetrical, but no biggie. There were NO rust freckles - hooray! The finish was the same as the maple version, a high gloss (mirror) polish, though I've heard of some people getting a satin brushed finish - dunno why! The micarta knife is fractionally thinner (3.7mm) than the maple version (4.1mm), I've no idea why this should be either. Noticably different was the grind, the maple version has a true flat grind, with 0 edge bevel, while the micarta verion has a slightly convex grind, with a very small secondary edge bevel. I think the maple version has been hand finished, as the grind does extend further up the blade (see pic), though this could be due to the slightly thicker steel of the maple version. Aside from these small differences, the knives are pretty much identical.
Here's a couple of pics taken with different lighting. The blades are oiled, so look slightly streaky (almost brushed), this is just the oil on the surface of the steel. Both knives have a mirror polish.
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood001.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood002.jpg
i love the wilky logo on the blades 8-) i have got to get a micarta one!
cheers, and.
Are the scales sculpted? How about a shot showing the top of the knife across the spine and scales?
Are the scales sculpted? How about a shot showing the top of the knife across the spine and scales?
Yeah, they are sculpted. I'll do a series of shots of some unusual angles later tonight. Off for me Crimbo dinner now. ;)
I got my Micarta Woodlore for Chistmas :-D
I am very pleased with the knife, although the finish could have been better - there was a nick in the edge towards the tip and the area where the blade joins the handle on the bottom has a machining mark on it - visible in the large version of the second picture. (My other half, who bless her, gave it to me for Christmas was rather unimpressed with the lack of box - it arrived in its sheath in a padded envelope.) None of this matters though as this is going to be my outdoors knife.
I did have to sharpen it - I tried to cut the potatoes for Christmas dinner with it and would have done better chopping them with my hand! A few minutes with the sharpmaker though and it was hair popping sharp.
Anyway, here are a few quick piccys, sorry about the background :)
Click on the pic for the full size version but note they are over a meg each.
http://www.pteron.org/pics/IMG_1392_m.JPG (http://www.pteron.org/pics/IMG_1392.JPG)
http://www.pteron.org/pics/IMG_1393_m.JPG (http://www.pteron.org/pics/IMG_1393.JPG)
http://www.pteron.org/pics/IMG_1394_m.JPG (http://www.pteron.org/pics/IMG_1394.JPG)
Merry Christmas
Andy
I tried to photograph the grind lines to illustrate what I'm on about, but it turned out to be very difficult - anyway, 'scuse the poor pic quality, but I think you can see what i mean...
this is the maple handled knife, flat grind, 0 edge bevel...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood004.jpg
This is the micarta handled knife, looks like it's been ground on a wheel, VERY slightly convex, with a tiny edge bevel...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood005.jpg
You can see the vertical grind lines and can feel them with your thumbnail. It shouldn't be too hard to grind it flat with a waterstone, but you get the idea. I'm interested to know if others get these vertical grind marks on their micarta knives?
Here are some pics showing the shape of the knife over the handle area...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood006.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood007.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood008.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood009.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood010.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood011.jpg
These knives certainly are built like tanks. :-)
You'll be glad to know that I did get my micarta WS for christmas, I like Martyn have the vertical grind lines, I also found that the handle is less flared and smaller than my RM Woodlore knife but is very comfortable in the hand and very useable. I like it and will hopefully get a chance to give it a good work out soon.
Brian
Mine has the grind marks too, it also had a small flat/blunt spot towards the point as mentioned in previous posts, but this ground out almost straight away.
Any advice on grinding these grind marks out then?
Whats the advantage/disadvantage of the flat grind & 0 bevel against the secondary one that's on the Micarta knife. Will the edge last longer or be stronger?
Any comments appreciated as I'm new to waterstones and don't want to ruin my knife by getting carried away with my grinding. :-?
Hi Guys,
Is anyone willing yet to say which is the better knife?!? I've fancied buying myself a Woodlore knife for a while now, but 9+ months is SUCH a long time to wait (although the wife's pregnancy seems to have flown by!). Is the WS version a good compromise or should I just be a bit more patient? I'm not worried about cost, I just want a high quality knife.
Ta, Mat
Maybe a new 'sharpening' thread wouldn't go amiss.
I think a true flat grind is best. AFAIK the main problem in sharpening is keeping a consistent angle, and the big advantage of the Scandinavian/Woodlore type knife is you can do that easily by laying the bevel flat on the stone.
I use wet or dry paper, used wet, on a flat surface, as in Mors Kochanskis book. You get a near mirror finish with 600 then 1200 grit followed by stropping with a tiny smear of Autosol (note spelling - not Anusol.....) polish. Maybe Japanese wetstones are better - I've never used them so couldn't say. I think the way they number the grit sizes is different?
I sometimes have a bit of trouble keeping a consistent angle on the curved portion of the blade - any advice on this welcome.
Interestingly, you can clearly see the laminate edge, 3mm above the cutting edge, on my Brusletto and Frosts laminated knives when just sharpened. Soon becomes invisible with use.
Having been subjected to far too much temptation, can anyone tell me if Wilkinson sell Micarta knives direct, and if so are they cheaper than Woodlore, allowing for postage? (I'm assuming RM still gets his cut as designer as is only fair.)
Hello Doc,
W-S do sell the Micarta and Birds Eye versions direct. Normally they charge for postage, but I'm not sure how much as they use a courier rather than Royal Mail. Woodlore don't charge for postage.
When I got my Dartmoor from them it was a tenner......mind you that was a heavy knife, so hopefully the the Micarta would work out a bit cheaper.
I think you're right about the sharpening thread. I'll have a look and see if there is one, and if not start one.
Cheers
it has been noted that the scandanavian grind can be a little fragile at the edge. haveing a slight secondary bevel will give you a more durable edge, but you'll lose a a small amount of penetration for wood carving. i tend to do touch ups on a set of crock sticks.
autosol rocks! i use it (and wet'n'dry)on the inside of a cornflake box across the back of an A4 pad for just a hint of a convex grind. 8-)
cheers, and.
By the way, thanks to all for the top notch pictures.
Colin KC
29-12-2003, 21:13
Maybe a new 'sharpening' thread wouldn't go amiss.
I think a true flat grind is best. AFAIK the main problem in sharpening is keeping a consistent angle, and the big advantage of the Scandinavian/Woodlore type knife is you can do that easily by laying the bevel flat on the stone.
I use wet or dry paper, used wet, on a flat surface, as in Mors Kochanskis book. You get a near mirror finish with 600 then 1200 grit followed by stropping with a tiny smear of Autosol (note spelling - not Anusol.....) polish. Maybe Japanese wetstones are better - I've never used them so couldn't say. I think the way they number the grit sizes is different?
I sometimes have a bit of trouble keeping a consistent angle on the curved portion of the blade - any advice on this welcome.
Interestingly, you can clearly see the laminate edge, 3mm above the cutting edge, on my Brusletto and Frosts laminated knives when just sharpened. Soon becomes invisible with use.
Having been subjected to far too much temptation, can anyone tell me if Wilkinson sell Micarta knives direct, and if so are they cheaper than Woodlore, allowing for postage? (I'm assuming RM still gets his cut as designer as is only fair.)
Doc, the "flat grind" you mention is achully a "zero edge"
A true Flat Grind (a la SAK) is a flat "from the spine" grind.
the Woodlore knife can be called a "Zero edge, Sabre grind" & is best sharpened by the use of a flat ground block/plate glass, or other similar surface. with a sheet (cut to slightly oversize) of "wet 'n' dry" glued to the surface (I use Pritt & lubricate with WD40, this not only helps in the cutting/polishing, but also facilitates the easy removal of the used wet 'n' dry once the WD40 has soaked through the paper)
Hope that helps
Col
hi
I recently started a thread over on british blades about sharpening a woodlore. Not much response sadly.
Some talk about the Sharpmaker.
Any advice would be gratefully received as buggering a £195 blade would seriously spoil my day.
Cheers,
Wayne
gurushaun
29-12-2003, 22:48
Wayne
Give Alan a ring or email him, he is a nice guy. IIRC he recommends the Sharpmaker and used to sell them at one time.
Cheers
Shaun
I would recommend sharpening the blade almost exactly as described by Mears in his book Bushcraft. This is done by laying the entire bevel flat on a stone. I like to hold the handle loosely and place one or two fingers of my other hand directly on the bevel opposite the stone. This keeps the blade flat on the stone. Then move the blade smoothly down the stone (forward or backward). I sharpen one region of the blade at a time. Mears gives a final touch to his edge by running it down a set of crockstick. Not a bad idea for a field knife. If you run it lightly on fine crocksticks, this will remove the wire edge and little or no stropping is required. If you run it a bit more on crocksticks, this will give you a small bevel on the main edge, which will be more robust but not as effective for woodcarving.
If you don't sharpen the entire bevel, you will eventually end up with a very thick edge and then you will have a lot of work to do to bring the main bevel down again.
Thanks for the advice guys seems i have a lot to learn.
Wayne.
Thanks for the info on the terminology Col. With my scientific background, I like to use the right names for things. I think I've heard the term 'sabre grind' used for Scandinavian knives before.
I wonder about testing sharpness. I hear different things. Mors Kochanski (who certainly comes over in his writings as a man with practical knowledge) suggests painlessly shaving wet forearm hair. (OK - hands up all of us with bald forearms....?) However, playing around sharpening the Opinel, I find that I can get the blade to this level of sharpness, but it doesn't stay sharp long. Maybe too steep a bevel?
Colin KC
30-12-2003, 00:20
Yah Doc, sounds right, I'd recommend an included angle about equal to a relaxed "two finger salute" (@ 40o)
A good way of testing is to rest the edge on a fingernail & draw backwards (not slice, drag, edge trailing) the edge should grip, not slip :wink:
hands up all of us with bald forearms
do we only hold one hand up if we only have one bald forearm???
calf muscles are looking a bit thin on the insulation dept, does that count?
:shock: :lol:
cheers, and.
Any advice on grinding these grind marks out then?
Whats the advantage/disadvantage of the flat grind & 0 bevel against the secondary one that's on the Micarta knife. Will the edge last longer or be stronger?
Any comments appreciated as I'm new to waterstones and don't want to ruin my knife by getting carried away with my grinding. :-?
Just so we all know what we're talking about here, I've drawn a quick pic...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/profile.jpg
Blade "A" is like the maple WS knife, and also the Alan Wood woodlore, it has a single bevel with 0 edge, that means that the big flat edge bevels go all the way right to the sharp bit. Knife "B" has two big primary bevels, and a small secondary edge bevel - this is what my WS micarta blade was like. It was sharp, but not ideal. You can either sharpen the secondary edge bevels, but the knife will be much better if you grind these secondary bevels away, so that the edge profile looks like blade "A". Please examine your knife edge carefully to see if it looks like A or B. If it looks like A, then you're almost home, but if it looks like B, there is some work to do (Col, what did you get?). Can we take a quick census as to what your micarta edge looks like? Mine had a secondary edge, like knife "B" but that doesn't necessarily mean they all do.
Yep bald forearms and calf muscles here too! Forearms are for your knife, calf muscles are for your Granny B. Or you could buy a sharp checker from Razors Edge.
Hi,
My Micarta Woodlore knife had a type 'A' bevel.
cheers
John
Colin KC
31-12-2003, 10:47
Yah Boss, mine's a zero edge too :-D
Mine had the vertical grind lines exactly as in Martyn's picture, and, I think, a very small secondary bevel - it was also blunt, as think I mentioned before, so it's single bevel now.
Hmmm, a disparity of results - a quality control issue perhaps?
all the cheapo WS knives were ground by apprentices, so it's pot luck wether they got it right or not :lol:
but they've got to learn somehow.
cheers, and.
Colin KC
01-01-2004, 04:34
all the cheapo WS knives were ground by apprentices, so it's pot luck wether they got it right or not :lol:
but they've got to learn somehow.
cheers, and.
's not so much as apprentices, as "bunging them all inna bin & sorting them, when we've re-tooled & decided on quality within the noprth/south divide/ whoever pisses us off :wink:
Just seen an Alan Wood Woodlore knife go for £240 on ebay. Yikes.
20% increase in value in 9 months. Maybe a good investment, so long as you don't actually use it!
The guy really wanted one right now :wink:
Hey guys, I'd like to hear more about your WS Woodlore knives. I may be writing a magazine article on this and I'd like to hear more comments, good or bad. Anyone have any comments on edge holding? Ergonomics?
In the middle of writing up a review at the moment. I'll give you a shout when it's done. But I would also like to hear more from people about the micarta knife - has anyone actually got one with a smooth ground bevel, with zero edge? It seems they all come with the vertical grind lines, and some have a secondary bevel, some dont.
Mine came with the vertical grind lines but with the type 'A' bevel.
I seem to remember from my engineering days a rough surface finish when grinding was the by product of either excessive feed rate when machining or the grinding wheel being badly dressed.
Maybe if WS were in a bit of a rush to get the first batch completed. They cut a few corners?? It'll be interesting to see how the second batch of Micarta knifes turns out as presumably the pressure on WS won't be so great to deliver this second batch? Or perhaps the grind lines are just the way the cheaper Micarta knives will be as I guess they're very much made to a price point.
I think the knife is great. Its solid, well constructed and mine was ok sharpness wise when it arrived. I've used it a fair bit since it arrived carved a couple of spoons, split some billets of wood lit a few fires using it and the fire steel and it's stood up really well but I've only had it a short while. The sheath it came with is pretty good too holding the knife securely and it seems well made also.
I guess the idea behind it was to produce an affordable alternative to the Alan wood custom knife which woodlore offer with a strong emphasis on the knife being tough and well made down to a price rather than cosmetically perfect and a show item. I think that woodlore and wilkinson sword have suceeded in that.
Obviously they noticed a gap in the market and have produced a product to fill it, that the first batch of Micarta knifes seems to have sold out would point to the fact that they have suceeded.
Cheers
John
I think that's fair comment John. The WS knives have taklen a bit of a bashing, a lot of it from me and you are right to point out the positives. I think the criticisms come from a knife design which is well understood and already used by many in the form of the Alan Wood model. I think there were high expectations from WS with this knife, and I think it fell short of those expectations, but that doesnt mean it isn't a good knife.
If the knife was produced as a "never seen before" blade, I think we would all be raving about it. There are issues of consistency, not all the knives are ground the same, some have 0 bevels, some have secondary bevels - that really "should" be put right - and hopefully, it will now the pressure is off WS to get em out the door.
The grind marks aren't really an issue, the knife will do as advertised in whatever form it arrives, it's just that ideally, the edge would be stone finished, single bevel with 0 edge. If you dent get that, that doesnt mean you have a faulty knife, just that if you want your blade in that configuration, with that level of perfection, which does seem to be most popular, then you have to work on it yourself.
For $95 you get a superb working knife. The leather sheath is well made (though I would like more than a single row of stiches securing the belt loop), the handle is spot on for field use (micarta is hard to beat in this respect), the blade is well made and the relatively minor issue of edge grind, would resolve itself over time with normal use sharpening anyway. The finish isn't "perfect" when put under the microscope - not by custom cutlery standars - and some would argue that for £95 is damn well should be - and they may be right. But if you buy the knife for field work, are you really all that bothered about this. It doesnt detract from the functionality of the blade at all - it makes it a little less pretty under close examination, but who cares? It's gonna get ulgier over time anyway.
Swings and roundabouts. The knife is produced as a functional working blade at a reasonable price point. For purists, the finish may be inadequate, but if you're that concerned about fit & finish, get the Alan Wood model. For those who just want to get down 'n dirty with a good working tool, this knife fits the bill perfectly well.
Nice one Martyn and Johnboy. Concur with the above.
I've just ordered a Micarta WS knife today- hopefully will be delivered with the second batch in circa 2 weeks time.
I was tempted to go for the Alan Wood hand made job. However, maybe its my Scots upbringing, but I think a hundred quid is a hell of a lot to spend on a knife, and two hundred is positively mad - unless bushcraft is your number one passion, anyway. Seeing as a mint woodlore knife was just sold for £240 on ebay, I'd be afraid to sharpen it, let alone use it.
Anyway, you don't write off the opinion of folk like Ray Mears easily, and if he's been happy with a design for 12 years (maybe with minor changes, looking at his books?) then I'm happy to rely on that.
Having said that, I made a perfectly functional knife from a ten pound Norwegian blade and a bit of curly birch, despite having no woodwork experience, and maybe after using the WS Micarta for a bit, I might try and make my own 'perfect-for-me' knife.
It's good to own nice things - indeed it's natural for men to like gadgets or tools, just as it is natural to enjoy a real fire or go fishing. Don't fight it. On the other hand, we should never forget that it is the man who owns the tool, and not the other way around.
In the Ray Mears Essential Bushcraft, he goes over how to sharpen a knife in detail. It is worth the cost, as you say, buggering that blade would be tragic.
Hope this helps, best wishes,
Jake Rollnick
Greenpete
20-01-2004, 20:56
I've seen a few of the Woodlore knives and think they are an excellent design and of good quality.
I also think they're ridiculously expensive! So I made my own back in 1996.
For someone with the desire I feel most people could make one and in order to help those people I have posted a tutorial on my web site, http://www.greenpete.co.uk
If you want to buy a good knife then the Woodlore one is a good choice, but there are cheaper alternatives and still of the same quality. Or as some else pointed out about fitting your own handle is a very satisfying and rewarding thing to do.
Greenpete
Very impressive!
I thought the site might be about fitting a handle to a Scandi blade, but no, its doing it from scratch with a lump of steel.
Well done pete
I have been looking for your knife making info for a while now
Are'nt you the guy from the wilderness gathering with the wheel barrow?
I thought you were untill i saw your picture on your website, now i'm not sure
Greenpete
21-01-2004, 23:53
Well thanks guys!
It's nice to know you liked my site.
I really do hope that it helps people make their own custom knife and especially for those that can't afford 'brand names'.
And yes I am the muppet with the wheel barrow!
Pete :-)
Greenpete
22-01-2004, 00:03
I didn't realize that Ray Mears/Wilkinson Sword were getting the knives made in the USA!
That's a shame, not looking after British interests but rather his wallets!
Pete :cry:
I think that they are actually made in the UK.
I didn't realize that Ray Mears/Wilkinson Sword were getting the knives made in the USA!
That's a shame, not looking after British interests but rather his wallets!
Pete :cry:
I didn't realize that Ray Mears/Wilkinson Sword were getting the knives made in the USA!
I dont think they are. I'm pretty sure they're made in the UK (says "Made In England" on em anyway).
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/wswood/wswood1.jpg
Great knife tutorial BTW Pete, love it. :-D
You made any more since?
Greenpete
22-01-2004, 11:19
That makes me a bit happier! It's nice to know Ray's helping to keep our industry alive!
Pete :-)
Has anyone been able to get sparks off their WS Woodlore using flint? All I get are dents in the spine.
I know you can get sparks from O1, but I've never tried. I think the 10 series steels spark easier though, O1 does have an iddy, biddy bit of chrome in it, maybe that's the problem.
Martyn, IIRC, it's the Rockwell that's the problem. I would think that O1 should spark pretty easily if the Rockwell is high enough. I remember when Jeff Randall offered his lazer strike he had a part of it tempered at a high rockwell so it could be used with flint.
I own a laser strike, I'll have to try it. :)
IIRC it's 1095 though, not O1.
Think I'll stick to me old faithful.
I was thinking the exact same thing Gary. I keep being tempted but I think it's mostly the glamour of the RM knife that's doing it.
What is it you use normally Gary? A Bison?
Prolly get one some day though! :shock:
Nothing seems to be going right with these cheaper WS knives - think I'll save me money and stick to me old faithful.
Jeff actually had some problems with some of the Laser Strikes in that some of them were not tempered hard (was it just along the spine?). So IIRC, he offered to refund their money or replace the knife. I think it was just a misunderstanding between Jeff and the company that made them but it's been a long time ago and I'm going from memory so I'm not sure I have the story exactly right.
As for the WS Woodlore, I can't say much right now because I'm working on an article about it but from what I've heard about the Rockwell of the original woodlore, I doubt it would be any more effective at getting a spark from flint. In fact, when you look at lots of really high dollar knives that are differentially tempered and have a soft spine, you have the same situation. In fact, most knives are too low in the Rockwell to throw sparks although you might try a carbon Mora and see what happens, eh? My personal opinion of the WS Woodlore is that it's a wonderful knife and worth the price so just because it doesn't thow sparks from chert doesn't mean squat. I was just curious if others were getting the same results as me. After working on the edge of the knife, I can tell ya it's well-tempered and not soft. :-D
OK, I just dug up a review article in TK on the Laser Strike (Sept. 2001). It's the tang that's raised for striking with flint. And although it doesn't say so in the article, I'm sure the tang was hardened specifically for this purpose.
And while I was at it, I dug up Jeff's article specifically on this subject. It's in the Sept. 2000 issue of Tactical Knives.
Here's what Jeff said: "So what is the secret for good-sparking steel? To produce sparks hot enough for flint and steel, two things are required: high carbon steel and hardening of the striking area. Simple high carbon steel in raw form will not work and must be hardened (carburized) to raise the carbon content at the striking surface. In actual fact, hardening a knife spine to the degree required for fire-steel use may create a tool too brittle for serious functions."
So that's why when Jeff designed the Laser Strike to have a raised, hardened tang.
Jeff actually had some problems with some of the Laser Strikes in that some of them were not tempered hard (was it just along the spine?).
Yep, you remember well, I think it was before tops started making them, I think jeff used someone else first, but again my memory is as sketchy too. One thing though, I hated the raised tang and ground it off soon after I took delivery. One of the great features was the divot for the firedrill - great idea. I think the handle was a good design (sans the raised sparking bit). The idea was to have 3 firestrting methods in one blade, a sweedish steel on the kydex sheath, a divot for a firedrill and a hardened area for flint striking. Good in theory, but it made the knife uncomfortable for me, it was too high a price for what ammounts to redundancy.
I hear ya about the raised tang. Personally, I think and exposed pommel would be ideal for that. I'm partial to exposed pommels anyway as they can make a good scraper. If there was one thing I would change about the basic woodlore design, it would be to add an exposed pommel. And maybe harden it to function as a flint striker. Another nice thing about an exposed pommel is you can hammer on it or use it as a hammer with less fear of damaging the scales.
Absolutely. An exposed and hardened pommel would definitely have been better.
Adi001 - yep it is the Bison for now - but I am trying to have a knife made to my own design. Sadly I think this is the only way to get a near perfect knife in both design and function.