lanyard how-to?

[Squidders]

Hi,

Could someone possibly help me out with some inspiration in knotting my lanyards?

Any information on nice looking / functional methods for either flat leather strips and paracord would be appreciated as I tend to just stick a figure-8 in there, nod and say something dull like "that's not going anywhere".

Cheers in advance

Joe

[RovingArcher]

I use a coil knot, which for all intents and purposes is the same as a hangmans noose. If you're interested, you can find it here. (http://www.chrisreeve.com/knotright.htm)

[Adi007]

How about something like this ... quite practical I find!
http://www.chrisreeve.com/knotright.htm
http://www.chrisreeve.com/knotleft.htm

[JakeR]

I've got the one for all.

I learnt it in work a few weeks back. I don't know the name of it, but i'll happily send people some examples free of charge. Just PM me.

I have a digi camera as of today :o): tomorrow i'll see if i can get my first (:oops:) pics up.

[JakeR]

Oh, it's like a solid pattern, looks real nice. And very practical.

[Squidders]

Thanks for the links... tried that with paracord and it worked ok... I may need some practice... tried it with the leather and it just doesn't work for the material :cry:

[JakeR]

Do you want me to send you a sample of this lanyard? It's easy-ish to learn. All you have to do is take it apart and start again.

[Squidders]

Jake, That would be great thanks :biggthump

[alick]

Joe, is it for your EKA or a Northstar just to help pull the knife out of a deep sheath, or is it for something heavy like an axe ?

My take on layards is like this :

For my Evo 1, I have a short loop lanyard that goes across the back of my hand and anchors round the base of my thumb. It's specifically to stop a heavy and dangerous object flying out of my hand if something goes wrong on a chopping cut. It's VERY easy to engage and even more effective.

For my woodlore and inova X5 I have real short lanyards with one or three figure eight knots in them - deliberately lumpy to help pull the blade/torch from it's sheath.

For the others, there's a natty braid that kids learn at school using plastic string called "boondoggle" or "scooby doo" that works great in 2 and 3mm paracord. I make a lanyard using the square stitch

http://www.boondoggleman.com/graphics/steps/square_stitch/sq_in_progress_2.jpg
http://www.boondoggleman.com/prj_square_stitch.htm

fastened permanently to the knife or tied with a loop in the end so that it can be quickly fastened to anything with a hole using a larksfoot type knot. I use these on torches, zipper pulls and all sorts.

Wives and girl children are useful here. I floundered over a description on a tactical knife site and in exhasperation asked my wife to help. "Oh, you mean scooby doo" she says, "ask your daughter" who promptly braided up everything in sight ! :rolmao: :rolmao: :rolmao:

[Squidders]

Alick, it's for the EKA to aid in removing it from a sheath. I may just end up sticking to my usual of chucking a fig-8 on it and just dealing with it being ugly.

As for children...

2 hours of begging
+ 13 seconds (including the cigarette)
+ 9 months gestation
+ 5 years upbrining and knot education
------------
impractical :wink:

[alick]

:rolmao: :rolmao: :rolmao: :rolmao: :rolmao: :rolmao: :rolmao: :biggthump

[JakeR]

PM me your adress. And anyone else for that matter......:D

[JakeR]

(I meant postal adress, just in case :oops: )

[alick]

For interest |i've posted a couple of lanyard pics in Joe's thread reviewing the EKA Swede 88.

[boaty]

Here's a couple:

Monkey fist "stopper" with a single-plait braid, finished by a hangman's noose:

http://boaty.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fob.jpg

Current fave is a doughnut knot followed by a flat sinnet:

http://boaty.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ns-lanyard.jpg

[Stew]

For the others, there's a natty braid that kids learn at school using plastic string called "boondoggle" or "scooby doo" that works great in 2 and 3mm paracord. I make a lanyard using the square stitch

http://www.boondoggleman.com/graphics/steps/square_stitch/sq_in_progress_2.jpg
http://www.boondoggleman.com/prj_square_stitch.htm


Alick,

I know this as "Box Stitch" and there's a variant called "Barrel Stitch" that you might like to try. Instead of reversing your stitchs each layer, as in the box stitch, make the stitches in the same direction each layer.
You get a rounder finish due to the cords spiralling round, as well as a slightly different pattern.

Hope that makes sense!

[MagiKelly]

Here's a couple:

Monkey fist "stopper" with a single-plait braid, finished by a hangman's noose:

http://boaty.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fob.jpg

Current fave is a doughnut knot followed by a flat sinnet:

http://boaty.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ns-lanyard.jpg
The monkey fist stopper is one I fancied trying. Anyone got a link to some instructions?

[MagiKelly]

Cancel that request. I have found one. Here is is for anyone else.

http://www.realknots.com/knots/faqknot.htm

[JakeR]

John, do you want a sample and instructions of the lanyard i use? I'd be happy to mate.

Did you get the starkie instructions?

[tenbears10]

If i'm tying a simple paracord loop I will use a double fishermans knot (http://www.btinternet.com/~arb_exchange/aie_data/aie_knot_doubfish.html) it is a very strong way to join rope of the same diameter and it makes a proper loop which a fig 8 doesn't really.

I am doing more braided lanyards now that I have had a bit of practice but they are not difficult to learn.

Bill

[JakeR]

Bill, can i send you a sample and instructions of the lanyard, that way i wouldn't feel guilty about the cigar box!

[MagiKelly]

John, do you want a sample and instructions of the lanyard i use? I'd be happy to mate.

Did you get the starkie instructions?
Thanks Jake but the links I have found will see me okay.

Yes I did get your instructions, thank you :biggthump They arrived today and I was just about to PM you a thank you.

Now I do not want to sound ungrateful but how exactly did you think I was stropping my knifes with the belt:?:

Answer the same way you discribed for the Starkie :nana:

Still at least I now know that you do not have some unique technique that is getting you better than average results. Must just be you got the super duper starkie while I have the regular.

[JakeR]

Possibly!

The thing with the belt is you can't be as accurate with strokes, as you don't do it on a flat surface (or do you :?:)

:biggthump

[MagiKelly]

Possibly!

The thing with the belt is you can't be as accurate with strokes, as you don't do it on a flat surface (or do you :?:)

:biggthump
Of course I lay it on a flat surface, otherwise I would convex the blade, which is not always a bad thing.

[Keith_Beef]

Here's a couple:

Monkey fist "stopper" with a single-plait braid, finished by a hangman's noose:

http://boaty.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fob.jpg

Excellent! Lovely neat little fist, you have there, Boaty. That's still my favourite knot.


Current fave is a doughnut knot followed by a flat sinnet:

http://boaty.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ns-lanyard.jpg

Ah, so it's called a doughnut knot!

I've read that you can tie this knot around a metal ring, to stop it from clanging noisily when you use it in rigging. Never seen one used like this before. Good idea.

I'd not seen the flat sinnet before (well, not to my knowledge). Looks neat and tidy. How hard is it to get it to lie flat, while you're tying it?


Oh, last week my son tied his first proper knot. Without being shown how, he figured out a lark's foot to fasten a keyring to his rucksack.
:approve:


Keith.

[JakeR]

Of course I lay it on a flat surface, otherwise I would convex the blade, which is not always a bad thing.

:oops: :oops:

Well, it looks like we have been agreeing all along :oops: :rolmao:

I think its better for convex grinds on the flat as you have more control. :?:

[hootchi]

[QUOTE=boaty]http://boaty.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fob.jpg/QUOTE]
I like that single strand plait. the whole arrangement looks very good.

[JakeR]

I can create that, but it would miss the whole loopy thing on the other end from the monkey fist. I agree though, would look cool! May just give it a go.

[Schwert]

I really like that donut and flat sennit. I will have to try that one out. Most of my lanyards I make with kangaroo lace.

I have a two-part pair of articles over at JM's magazine on a leather knife lanyard which is pretty easy to do and can be modified in a number of ways.

http://img42.exs.cx/img42/4686/Braid37.jpg

Part I
http://outdoors-magazine.com/s_article.php?id_article=159

Part II
http://outdoors-magazine.com/s_article.php?id_article=160

I also have an older tutorial for a similar lanyard in black/tan lace over at The Knife Network. This one has some closer shots to some of the braid and knots, but results in nearly the same sort of lanyard.

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11384&highlight=braid+lanyard

[boaty]

I'd not seen the flat sinnet before (well, not to my knowledge). Looks neat and tidy. How hard is it to get it to lie flat, while you're tying it?

It's such a simple knot to tie neatly - the illustration below is from the Ashley Book of Knots:

http://boaty.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/small-sinnet.jpg

I use the marlin spike on my brit army pocket knife to keep the loop open to a regular diameter when I'm tightening each course up


Oh, last week my son tied his first proper knot. Without being shown how, he figured out a lark's foot to fasten a keyring to his rucksack.
:approve:


Keith.

Ahh, a chip off the old block - excellent!! Do you find that, if you're sitting down when the kids are around, fooling around knotting stuff, that they're straight over and want some cord to play with too? Mine don't give me a moment's peace :o): :approve:

[JakeR]

http://www.leprevo.co.uk/thonging.html

Which one to go for Schwert?

[tenbears10]

Flat leather 3mm x 1mm is best Jake (code L2)

I got about 20m and it went a long way. It is machine cut so you have to check for weak spots before you start braiding but hand cut lace is much more expensive.

If you need any help let me know (Schwert is much more of a master but I've tried a few things now).

Bill

[JakeR]

Cheers Bill!

I'll have to wait for the 15th (for my last payday) before i can pay for anything more! But i look forward to giving it a good go. (i have Allan Blade bushcrafter to pay, big Brisa order, im looking at a ELK :roll: [and you know what that means])

:biggthump

[JakeR]

Just to let you know these are the second batch people sample's i have ready to be sent...

1. Ross
2. Matthew
3. Tom
4. Shaun
5. Erling
6. Danny
7. Stuart

Have the first lot received yours?

Jake

BTW i have now run out of cord! I'll be getting some this week so any more people who want will have to wait until probably friday. I only just managed to get everyones samples done, there was literally nothing left!!

[Schwert]

tenbears is correct, I would go for the 3 mm x 1 mm (L2) material. I have found that a 6-plait braid using 3mm flat lace makes a near perfect sized lanyard. It is strong and easy too.

I generally use 1.5 times the final length of the lanyard plus a few inches more for braiding comfort and terminations.

So for a 10" 6-plait lanyard, I would 3 strings about 36" long, middle the strings and start the braid by threading the knife hole with the 3 strings or by doing as short flat 3-plait (hair braid) and threading that in the lanyard hole then bring together to start 6-plait round. This makes for a very nice start.

Here is an example and link to a short easy single-tail braid. This one started by threading the 3 strings, not braiding them.

http://forums.outdoors-magazine.com/viewtopic.php?t=1103

http://forums.outdoors-magazine.com/upload/images/Schwert_CityKnife8.jpg

This one is very similar but starts differently, and the lanyard "hole" is actually a block between the scales.

http://forums.outdoors-magazine.com/viewtopic.php?t=888

http://outdoors.free.fr/images/Schwert_JCbraid3.jpg

I also have my neck lanyard tutorial over at JM's forum but my internet connection is so poor today I can barely post these.

Good luck and have fun.

[tomtom]

Those are some great lanyards Schwert... nice knives tooo!! :1244:

im going to give them a go if i can get me mits on some suitable leather! :wink:

[Schwert]

tomtom,

Honestly lanyards like this in 4 or 6-plait braid are very simple, very functional and dress a knife well. It looks much harder than it is. David Morgan's book is an excellent purchase with plently of good images and tips on how to braid well.

Every lanyard I make I learn a bit more and my transitions and terminations get better.

I am particularily proud of my work on the neck sheath I did with Gene Ingram and of course his Lacer knife. Fun, a bit challenging and, I think, quite a nice look.

If I can be allowed to toot my own horn a bit, these two Lacers recently completed are examples of what a tiny bit of braiding/lacing skill can produce.

http://img72.exs.cx/img72/6209/Lacer3flat.jpg

http://img83.exs.cx/img83/5756/Lacer4finished.jpg

[tomtom]

i think with work like that on show we will allow a little horn tooting! :biggthump

[Buckshot]

Excellent work Schwert :You_Rock_

Cheers

Mark

[JakeR]

Nice one Schwert!

I have bought some more cord, so the offer is up again.

I'm gonna get some of that leather when payday arrives!

[JakeR]

Big apologies guys, sent the last of them today. Should be with y'all within the next day or two. A number of events meant i had forgotten to stamp and post 'em. Until i saw them all on my mantle!

[tomtom]

Cheers Jake :1244:

[JakeR]

Do say if you don't get em. Squidders has informed me that his hasn't arrived, im worried the PO have a problem with the bits of lanyard in the 1st class envelope :shock:, saying that i know Bill's arrived.

[mercury]

These put my lanyards to shame , I use paracord and chainloops , don't know if thats the right name , basically you get a loop then pull another loop trough that and so on

[tomtom]

Mine arrived today.. Thanks very much Scots Pine Jake! :You_Rock_

[JakeR]

Hows it going Silver Birch? You managed to make one of your own?

:o):

[tomtom]

been kayakin all day.. i will give it a go tomorrow! :1244:

[JakeR]

Let me know how you get on...:biggthump

[Keith_Beef]

It's such a simple knot to tie neatly ..snip:
:thanks:
Now I look at the illustration, I think I know that knot. It's what my grandmother called "finger knitting".

I've tied this in 1/4" hemp rope to make handles for bags and slings for carrying logs.


Ahh, a chip off the old block - excellent!! Do you find that, if you're sitting down when the kids are around, fooling around knotting stuff, that they're straight over and want some cord to play with too? Mine don't give me a moment's peace :o): :approve:

My son loves the "magic knots"; pull them tight, then jerk them tighter and they disappear :o): I've got a 50 metre drum of hemp rope waiting for a tree house project that I've been wanting to get started for a couple of years. Next summer, both my kids will be old enough to "help" :wink:

My mother-in-law saw me messing with a bit of string, tying monkey's fists, clover leaves, lucky charm knots, and braids, and commented that it was lke watching her father messing with string after he'd retired from the merchant navy.


Keith.

[JakeR]

(just to say the offer is still available) ;)

[shinobi]

(just to say the offer is still available) ;)

I hope you're bringing lots of lanyard material to Ashdown as I think it could be quite a nice thing to learn next to the fire with a brew. How about it?

Cheers,

Martin

[Adi]

http://img77.exs.cx/img77/5138/017bushcraft0901053jf.jpg

I have just spent most of the evening trying to make a lanyard. I was amazed by how much cordage you need, for my first attempted I only used about 50cm but that was not enough, I ended up using about 2.5 / 3 meters for the above, I am happy with my first ever attempt.

[shinobi]

Good work Adi, I can't even tie my laces !!!

Martin

[Adi]

Thanks Shinobi but its crap really, it took me about 3 hours

[JakeR]

Sure will Shinobi, very easy to learn if your being taught in person!

Look forward to it! :biggthump

[Stew]

Just thought I would share a picture of my latest lanyard.
It's more of a fob than a lanyard, as such, and is designed to help with removing the knife from the sheath.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/sjlight/Fob.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/sjlight/Fob3.jpg

In total I used about 5 metres of 3mm cord to make a 5 cm(ish) fob.

[JakeR]

Nice work Stew...

Thats what i find most useful about them, the lanyards i use don't attach to your hand, just make the knife more grippable...

:biggthump

[BIG-TARGET]

How do you do that????? :?:

[Stew]

How do you do that????? :?:

Well you get a load of stringy-stuff and wrap, bend and twist it a few times and that's what you end up with. :o):

Ok, I'll tell you how....later on when I have time.

[JakeR]

Stew, you should send people samples, it's quite rewarding! Nice feeling once you have taught someone a nice skill. Or send me some and once i've learned i'll send them off to people!! :lol:

[Stew]

Stew, you should send people samples, it's quite rewarding! Nice feeling once you have taught someone a nice skill. Or send me some and once i've learned i'll send them off to people!! :lol:

To be honest Jake I don't think it would be worth my time. Just sending the finished product wouldn't help anyone else learn as they're quite complicated and they take quite a while to tie.
The fob is actually made up of 3 different types of knot. The first 2 (starting from the knife), I can do without refering to instructions. The final knot is a star knot and is the most complicated knot I've tied. Ever. I have to refer back to the instructions every time I repeat this knot but it's very rewarding to have a finished one.

However, what I shall do is post links to instructions which will help others.

[JakeR]

You coming to Ashdown? Show us there!

[Stew]

You coming to Ashdown? Show us there!

Nope, don't think I am. :cry:

[JakeR]

Darn, well im sure there will be plenty more...when there is, i 'd like to be taught :wink: :wink: :o):

[Keith_Beef]

Darn, well im sure there will be plenty more...when there is, i 'd like to be taught :wink: :wink: :o):

Let op, Jake !

http://home.tiscali.nl/knotsandknottying/starknot.htm


KKK.

[Stew]

Let op, Jake !

http://home.tiscali.nl/knotsandknottying/starknot.htm


KKK.

Nice one Keith! Those are easier to follow than the instructions (http://knotical-arts.com/star1.html) I used!

[Seagull]

Stew, thats a nice little lanyard/fob.
Ive had sore fingers with making tons of similar things to dish out as keyfobs.

I have always thought that the star knot looks even better when tied in a stiffer material, it really enhances the definition.

The star, is what I use on my leatherwork, as a thong finial.
The flattened-triple-loop final pass ,for this knot, is ,imho, even better that the oft-used doubled crown.

The star ,is also my favourite topknot for hazel staffs. Or ,as the, "mem" calls ,em ,my Gandalf sticks!

Nah, the star aint all that hard to learn, do six or seven in short order, and youve cracked it. Its in the tightening-up, where most folk go wrong. Too often, they haul and rive , out of sequence and distort everything.

Nice one, Stew. I reckon you,ve been a Cape-Horner !

Seagull

[JakeR]

Thanks guys! Crisis, they look complicated!

Will give it a go, when i have the time!

[Seagull]

Jeez, Stew, I just checked out those instructions you posted.

Apart from management systems paperwork, Ive never ,in my life ,seen a more long-winded and and convoluted process description!

Seagull

[Stew]

Jeez, Stew, I just checked out those instructions you posted.

Apart from management systems paperwork, Ive never ,in my life ,seen a more long-winded and and convoluted process description!

Seagull

They weren't made by me! If they were they would probably be 10 times worse!! :o):

[Stew]

I have always thought that the star knot looks even better when tied in a stiffer material, it really enhances the definition.


Thanks for the tip!



The flattened-triple-loop final pass ,for this knot, is ,imho, even better that the oft-used doubled crown.

Do you mean tucking all the ends back in afterwards? :roll:



Nah, the star aint all that hard to learn, do six or seven in short order, and youve cracked it. Its in the tightening-up, where most folk go wrong. Too often, they haul and rive , out of sequence and distort everything.

Well as they say practice makes perfect. I've made 5 of the star knots know but quite spaced out. I haven't had the time to do lots close together.



Nice one, Stew. I reckon you,ve been a Cape-Horner !


I'm a what-now? :?:

[Seagull]

Stew, regarding the flattened triple-pass finial:

This is gonna be awkward, in words, but I will try.
I cannot see from the pic, just what kind of finial you have there.

Basically, the building-up, of the star, means you have paralleled all the parts with which you,re working, and you,ll have doubled vertical rings which link through doubled horizontal rings. (Just think this through, a bit, before we go further).

This leaves you with all the working ends emerging in a direction AWAY from the body of the fob. ( make any sense?)

This is the basic star knot, and sailors commonly cut off the ends at this stage, or even, frayed them into a sort of tassle.

At this point,you have the choice, if you wish, of two forms of finial, both of which, will require the working end of each part, to be tucked inside the construction so as to emerge pointing along the direction of the fob body.

For the flattened triple, you take each working end, in sequence, and follow, yet again, downward through the nearest horizontal link (lug) and on , kind of sideways and downward, through the most adjacent vertical link...... so that each working end has been given finishing friction, by 4 tight nips, and it will not ease free. You can then nip off the ends, (sharpened pincers or sidecutters are best) close on the underside of the star.

Beauty of both the triple and the doubled crown, is that they can both result in leaving you with(if you need em) ,TWICE the number of original "working ends", with which to continue the remainder of the job at hand.

As before, whats really the grunt work, is the proper way to tighten-up, or, "work" the knot and the secret of that, is to just take your time , little by little, and stay in sequence. Dont try to tighten up, even slowly, through one whole ,"cycle" at a time.
Best way , is to easy-easy work through no more than a half-cycle, before moving on to the next working part. Then come back again and finish all the half cycles.

And then, go around the whole lot, yet again.......in half cycles,you will need to do the whole sequence, approx 3 or 4 times, dont lose patience.

As a time guide, just to show you about taking it easy, it should take ,perhaps, 10 minutes to form and finial a five-pointer star, in 6mm material, but to work it all really tight, will take you a minimum of an hour.

And, to think that I had the brass neck to comment about long-winded descriptions, eh?

Gotta give yer top marks for staying with whatever instructions you used, most folk just give up. Ditto your comments to Jake, the learning HAS to be a singular and specific experience.

A Cape - Horner, by the by, was an accolade of title, given to the wind-ship sailors, who survived a passage, in both directions, around Cape Horn. Its use, is from about the 1830,s, to date.

Right! I think its time for a plate of hot Stockholm tar and rope-yarn for breakfast.

Seagull

[Stew]

Hey Seagull,
I haven't had chance to make any more star knots but a new camera has allowed me to get a good shot of how I finished the end of the one I did before.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v140/sjlight/th_MikroFobend.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/sjlight/MikroFobend.jpg)
Click the pic for a bigger version

[Seagull]

Yo! Stew, what you have there, is the doubled-crowned finish .

Next time, give the triple-pass finish, a try.
IMHO the triple is better as a finial for fobs ,lanyards and bellropes, or sticks.

However, for wall-mounted arrays, seen from end-on, then the doubled-crown is slightly more decorative, especially if you leave its structure untightened at all, til youve taken all the working slack right out of the base .

If you ever get chance to see the dustcover of Ashleys Book of Knots, youll see what I mean.

Good show! and nice photo.

regards
Seagull

[kupo]

Here's a couple:

Monkey fist "stopper" with a single-plait braid, finished by a hangman's noose:

http://boaty.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fob.jpg

Current fave is a doughnut knot followed by a flat sinnet:

http://boaty.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ns-lanyard.jpg

i saw the instructions you gave for the flat sinnet and i tried to follow them but i could not make that knot for some reason. can you provide better instructions or know of a link that describes it better?