View Full Version : Panic Attacks in woods
Hi everyone.
In my review of the Woodlore Tracking course I mentioned help Ray Mears had given me regarding Panic attacks caused by being in woods at night. I've been PM'ed by a few people asking for more information about this, and felt it better to put it here in open forum where others might see it.
My next post has the details.
I have had in the past a problem with extreme nervousness in woods at night, that has on occasion spilled over into full blown panic attacks - not very useful for a scoutleader who like to get the kids out camping! This problem stemmed (stems?) from an over active imagination, I think. Sometimes they have been simply feelings of nervous fear (not really uncommon, when it comes down to it), but other times I've been reduced to a screaming wreck, curled up in a hyperventilating ball and lashing out at anything around me (thankfully never during a scouting activity).
The last (and worst) time it happened was November last year, when I was helping to run a (non-scouting) outdoor event in some paintball woods in Essex. Even though I was surrounded by good friends the feelings of panic and fear were so great as to reduce me to that state I mention above. I had to be lead out of the woods, and I managed to regain some measure of control (by imagining how I would feel if the scouts saw me in this state), but was still reacting badly for hours afterwards.
When I went on the Tracking course, and it became obvious that there was to be some night time activity I nervously approached Ray, explained my problem, and asked for any advice. Ray's response was simple - almost childishly so - don't treat the woods at night as an enemy, but as a friend. We discussed my reactions and what I had done in the past to try to overcome them, and what I could do in the future. That night on the course, we were playing a stalking game - Ray gave me the option of sitting out, but I felt that I had to keep confronting my reaction rather than running from it, so I took part, something that I think pleased Ray.
Instead of getting nervous, I found myself curious - listening out for sounds and looking for interesting shapes. I felt calm and in control, even when I deliberatly put myself into some of the thicker areas of woodland. Even though there were people out there who - within the bounds of the game - were out to "get me", I felt focused and in control. Ray checked up with me after the game was over, and I was fine.
I can't really explain what was and still is so different in myself. Possibly it was Rays confidence that I could beat it (I suspect that a several people here will know what I mean if I mention Rays almost effortless and infectious confidence), possibly it was me allowing myself to overcome my fears; I don't know. but sometthing HAS changed.
My new confidence had it's strongest test yet this last weekend. Myself and another Scoutleader in my district had decided to try 2 nights backwoods camping - no tents, no watches, just what we could build ourselves - in November, and in the middle of some local woodland that a local troop owned! As we set up poncho bivvies late on Friday night, it was the other guy who was feeling most nervous, I felt relaxed and peaceful. I spent the whole weekend feeling utterly at home in the woods, which has boosted my confidence further.
I suspect that there'll be times when the problem comes back to haunt me, probably when I least expect it and when it will be least welcome, but I honestly think that I now have the internal tools to deal with the feelings, and overcome them.
Womble - That's inspiring, it really is. Thanks for sharing it with us. I think that one of the hardest things is for people is to see the woods as a friendly place to be, that it is not, as Ray pointed out an 'enemy' of any kind. For you to have accepted just that would have been great, but you overcame much more than many of us have to deal with. Well done, and thanks again for sharing. :You_Rock_
Yes, I'm very impressed with your post. The woods at night can be a scary place if you let it overwhelm you. In many areas where I backpack there can be reason for concern because of bears. On two occasions that I know of, I've had bears in my camp at night and while I probably didn't have a true panic attack, my "heart was in my mouth" as they say, just from the adrenaline rush. If a bear is in your camp at night, he's usually looking for something to eat. But other than that, for me the woods at night is a wonderful and ethereal place. The night is a time for listening and watching the stars. Good time to go fishing too. :-D
Womble sounds like you were more afraid of your fear than of the night.
I can remember being on exciercises in Germany and even active service in Bosnia and having my men spooked by the boogie man - young soldiers reporting glowing eyes in the dark ect ect. I call it the boogie man which at the end of the day is all it is they spooked themselves and the more they thought about it the more afriad they become.
I often found it reassuring to know that (while in army) if anybody was hunting me they were as disabled by the dark as I was in fact I had the advantage because being stationary I could hear or see them coming.
For the civilian the worries are different and its good to see you over came them. Ray advise was sound and once you over come that fear you see there are so many good things about the night.
One of the best experiences I ever had was on the plains of Alberta as I watched a pair of coyotes stalking me. They circled my camp, tawny ghosts, flickering in and out of the fire light. Fantastic.
i`ve already pm`d womble on this one , but first of all ABSOLUTE RESPECT to you for facing your fears,in it i told him something that happened to me once so i think i`ll share it, i was about to go into some woods one night when all of a sudden i got spooked by this overwhelming feeling that something/one was saying to me "dont go in the woods tonight" i cant describe it but it was like the woods were talking to me and looking out for me, kinda like a 6th sense , if you go in there tonight you`ll be in trouble, i`ve never had that feeling again but i felt like i was being looked after by whatever was channeling this feeling to me, i didnt go into them, i didnt have a panic attack i just took what i thought was the lands advice, has anyone else experienced this? also gary , i can remember when i was a young recruit in the marines doing a solo navex on dartmoor at night and wound myself up thinking about werewolf in london film while thinking i was all tough and cool cos i was going to be a royal marine , so i went to sit down on a rock for a water stop when the rock jumped up and ran away, it was a sheep and i can safely say that i broke the world speed and pant shi*ing record that night :-D , cheers , al
so i went to sit down on a rock for a water stop when the rock jumped up and ran away, it was a sheep and i can safely say that i broke the world speed and pant shi*ing record that night :-D , cheers , al
:yikes: :rolmao: :biggthump
Now that was baaaaaaaaaaad. :naughty:
RAPPLEBY2000
05-12-2003, 01:26
on a individual navigation hike in wales, just for fun i saw how close i could get to a shhep that was on my path,well i felt so silly, i stood right next to it! it only noticed when i clapped to make sure it didn't bolt towards me!
fear of woods at night... i think thats pretty common to everyone!
it's a basic human instinct, an instinct of:
i don't know whats out there so i'm going to stay alert till i feel safe!
i remember one camp i did, i was on my own, and had permission of the land owner.
i crept into the woods after dark, i had to use my torch as it was so overgrown, so my night vision was wasted.
as i got to an area i knew vaugely i heard all sorts scarey noises!
a sound of an insane dog with a sore throat barked for ages.
a sound of another dog crying with pain?
acompanying the noises were several phesants bursting into flight the way they do with no warning and the sound of somethings running through the woods. :oT: what the... more running through bushes, more barking... :yikes: ..what was that...
eventually after half an hour or so the noises stopped, i had my fire lit and i fell to sleep.
the next day was unaventful, till the evening, some of my friends thought it would be a great laugh to sneak up on me!
you've never heard anything so funny, they were all cursing, whilst trying to find a route through brambles and dense ferns, trying to make a route using a hockey stick, by the time they were near (about 10 minutes!) i was ready to leap out and ambush them with a flash camera!!
:rolmao:
later i talked to a friend about the noises:
insane dog with a sore throat = a deer sounding a warning call!
dog crying with pain= a fox call!
if you ever see a hedgehog listen carefuly they sound just like a scrubbing brush! :o):
Justin Time
05-12-2003, 08:12
Scariest noise I hear at night, when up in the hills badger watching, is a sheep with a cough, really does sound like some big bloke, I think they get some sort of worm which makes them cough. Or of course there's the herons which fly to a little feeder pond on the hill to catch frogs, put one of them up in front of you, with their huge wing span and pre-historic croak, <shudder> pterodactyls?
The paradox for me is that the better I get at walking quietly the more surprises I get from animals which didn't realise I was there till the last minute. In fact I've noticed that they often flee only when I've stopped moving, perhaps they're hoping I'm going to to walk by but when I stop they think I must have seen them.
Justin
bothyman
05-12-2003, 08:37
The worst one for me was when I heard a baby hedgehog calling out for its mother, its a high pitched sceeching noise like no other, it made me jump anyway.
Not so bad now I know what it is.
RAPPLEBY2000
05-12-2003, 11:57
another wierd one, i was washing up at home once and heard what i thought was a cat, i looked out the window and nothing, but the noise kept on, eventually i went out to find the cause, it was a frog!
remember how much noise a leaf makes falling from a tree, before you worry about axe murderers!
if you are seriously worried about genuine dangerous creatures or people, you can make a "sound barrier", a technique we used was to make a wall of dead branches and twigs in a circle around the camp, anything trying to cross it would make so much noise they would be seen instantly! it only works if the camp is completely surrounded!
it is only a last resort, it takes alot of time and energy and potentially could dammage the local enviroment, personally i would just try to get used to the fact when we go to sleep the woods come alive with harmless and very cute animals(in the UK anyway)!
i got chased off a hill top by a bit of low cloud one night. just me and the dog strolling along on a starry starry night, i turned round and there was this huge wall of white coming straight for me. so i freaked and legged it back to the car :-? but in my defense i had just been watching a repeat showing of "the fog" on tele a couple of days before :roll: :lol:
cheers, and.
bothyman
05-12-2003, 15:30
personally i would just try to get used to the fact when we go to sleep the woods come alive with harmless and very cute animals(in the UK anyway)!
Sorry Rapp
But I don't call Ticks cute , thats why I am thinking of getting a hammock, but then again Ticks do climb trees. :nono:
I have had in the past a problem with extreme nervousness in woods at night, that has on occasion spilled over into full blown panic attacks - not very useful for a scoutleader who like to get the kids out camping! This problem stemmed (stems?) from an over active imagination, I think. Sometimes they have been simply feelings of nervous fear (not really uncommon, when it comes down to it), but other times I've been reduced to a screaming wreck, curled up in a hyperventilating ball and lashing out at anything around me (thankfully never during a scouting activity).
The last (and worst) time it happened was November last year, when I was helping to run a (non-scouting) outdoor event in some paintball woods in Essex. Even though I was surrounded by good friends the feelings of panic and fear were so great as to reduce me to that state I mention above. I had to be lead out of the woods, and I managed to regain some measure of control (by imagining how I would feel if the scouts saw me in this state), but was still reacting badly for hours afterwards.
When I went on the Tracking course, and it became obvious that there was to be some night time activity I nervously approached Ray, explained my problem, and asked for any advice. Ray's response was simple - almost childishly so - don't treat the woods at night as an enemy, but as a friend. We discussed my reactions and what I had done in the past to try to overcome them, and what I could do in the future. That night on the course, we were playing a stalking game - Ray gave me the option of sitting out, but I felt that I had to keep confronting my reaction rather than running from it, so I took part, something that I think pleased Ray.
Instead of getting nervous, I found myself curious - listening out for sounds and looking for interesting shapes. I felt calm and in control, even when I deliberatly put myself into some of the thicker areas of woodland. Even though there were people out there who - within the bounds of the game - were out to "get me", I felt focused and in control. Ray checked up with me after the game was over, and I was fine.
I can't really explain what was and still is so different in myself. Possibly it was Rays confidence that I could beat it (I suspect that a several people here will know what I mean if I mention Rays almost effortless and infectious confidence), possibly it was me allowing myself to overcome my fears; I don't know. but sometthing HAS changed.
My new confidence had it's strongest test yet this last weekend. Myself and another Scoutleader in my district had decided to try 2 nights backwoods camping - no tents, no watches, just what we could build ourselves - in November, and in the middle of some local woodland that a local troop owned! As we set up poncho bivvies late on Friday night, it was the other guy who was feeling most nervous, I felt relaxed and peaceful. I spent the whole weekend feeling utterly at home in the woods, which has boosted my confidence further.
I suspect that there'll be times when the problem comes back to haunt me, probably when I least expect it and when it will be least welcome, but I honestly think that I now have the internal tools to deal with the feelings, and overcome them.
Theres more to be afraid of in towns than in the woods, just think the noise the average towny would make trying to fid ya...dont be afraid theres nothing in the dark thats not there during the day.
woodsitter
30-01-2004, 14:36
RAPPLEBY2000 wrote:
personally i would just try to get used to the fact when we go to sleep the woods come alive with harmless and very cute animals(in the UK anyway)!
Sorry Rapp
But I don't call Ticks cute , thats why I am thinking of getting a hammock, but then again Ticks do climb trees.
Ticks aren't that scarry, but imagine you're camping peacefully somewhere in Darthmore, when suddly in teh middle of the night some freaked out, screeming and shi*ting marine is running your way :yikes:
That would scare me!
:wink:
it was a sheep and i can safely say that i broke the world speed and pant shi*ing record that night
Has anyone ever come across a Duke of Edinburgh award group camping on their own in the hills for the first time?
I've always wondered what would happen if I smeared a little ketchup on my face and ran through their campsite at dusk shouting "they're coming they're coming!!"
Or would that be too cruel? :twisted:
George
larry the spark
30-01-2004, 16:04
Exactly that happened to me and my two buds on DOE silver. camping at Fofanny dam in the mournes and noticed these two survival guys roaming around in DPM. FOund out they were camping a little way away from us.....no biggie.
mate decides to head over around 9pm (dark) to talk to them/beg some beer. Away for some time then BANG, BANG!! 'WTF? says my mate to me and we pull our crappy knives and a bit of wood from the fire, seriously filling our pants. Couldn't see more than a few metres ahead and we hear this rustling around us and all then all of a sudden this fekkin psycho comes running out of the darkness with a scream and an axe held above his head! 'HOLY F***' says I stumbling backwards and in fear of my life!
Then ha bloody ha, all a big joke. The bangs were trip snares with chrges on the ends that my mate had tripped over much to the survival guys hilarity. We thought we'd interupted an IRA/UVF training exercise and were paying the price!
Ended well though with the guys giving us plenty of booze (though stepping over last nights dinner as you leave the tent not really very nice) and letting us play with their toys.
Anyway, George, you are a very bad man! But do it anyway!
If you want me to make life easy for you, the other half helps out at a local DoE group so I can find dates, locations etc ;)
Sorry, but what exactly is there in the UK to be scared of ?
Try spending weeks in the African Rainforest with all the noises at night and knowing that there are things out there that you ought to be on the watch for……then you might have something to be worried about.
:shock:
larry the spark
30-01-2004, 17:42
If you want me to make life easy for you, the other half helps out at a local DoE group so I can find dates, locations etc ;)
Don't worry about it ....it was about 9 or 10 years ago!
If you want me to make life easy for you, the other half helps out at a local DoE group so I can find dates, locations etc ;)
Don't worry about it ....it was about 9 or 10 years ago!
I think it's so that george can go terrorise...
If these were rational fears it would be easy to dispel them ... problem is, usually they aren't. They are ingrained deeper in the subconscious than that. Crocs, spiders, snakes,animals - most people can rationalize those fears and usually - sometimes with help - come to terms with them. However, the kind of fears that some people have of the being alone in the woods or the dark are related to childhood fears - the bogeyman, Alien, Freddy Kruger, Tommyknockers, the monster under the bed/in the attic. These are fears that, for some people, become embedded in the mind early on, even pre speech. Being pre-speech (or at least when our vocabulary was less developed) means that we find it hard to describe or vocalize the fears. This means it's hard to get a handle on them. If we can't describe them, we can't begin to rationalize and put them into perspective, which makes them hard to overcome.
Bottom line, irrational fears are harder to deal with for some that real things.
Sorry, but what exactly is there in the UK to be scared of ?
Totally agree mate, things you can see, touch etc aren't quite as bad as you can often deal with them. Its when the imagination kicks in and you start wondering if there's a slim possibility that "something" is there that most fear comes from.
I agree with Lithril - I've spent lots of time in rainforests around the world and you know that if you follow the rules you're very unlikely to get anything too awful happening - If you hear noises in the dark you know its just a wild pig/jaguar/snake etc etc and you can rationalise that they don't want to harm you they're just living their lives and you're the traspasser that they're afraid of.
However if I'm out on my own in the UK and I hear noises at night my response would usually be "I know there are no wild pigs/jaguars/snakes etc out there, - so what the hell made that noise???". If you let your imagination run away, soon things can get pretty spookey.
Mind you I've spent some nights in some pretty spookey places that I would be happy never to have to go back to. Anyone spent the night alone in winter in Ben Alder Bothy?
George
Adi has it right, I think. There was/is nothing really rational in the reaction I was having. After all; in both of the cases where it's been worst, I've been surrounded by people I know and trust.
In a way it's not fear of something - it's just fear; possibly made worse (as Adi suggests) by not being able to put the reason for it into meaningful language.
If anyone else suffers from the same problem I suggest NOT watching either "The Blaire Witch Project" :evil: or "Dog Soldiers" :twisted: before sleeping out. If you weren't worried about strange noises etc beforehand these films would change that.
:roll:
If anyone else suffers from the same problem I suggest NOT watching either "The Blaire Witch Project" :evil: or "Dog Soldiers" :twisted: before sleeping out. If you weren't worried about strange noises etc beforehand these films would change that.
:roll:
"Dog Soldiers" a must see film. Never been out at full moon since seeing it. :yikes: :shock: :roll: :rolmao:
Panic is a complex set of bio and neuro chemical responses that are initiated by a part of out brain called the amygdala. The eyes and ears both have a high-speed neural connection to this almond sized portion of the brain and it can respond to a perceived threat much quicker than out higher brain can ... so before you can say "is that a sn ...", the amygdala has already seen to it that the fight or flight responses are in place and that out bloodstream is flooded with adrenaline ready. This is usually a good thing as it's designed to keep you alive!!! It can, however, get out of control.
Some of the things that we fear are pre-programmed into us while others we pick up (if a parent has a phobia about, say, spiders or the dark, the child is more likely to develop such phobia). Stories about bogeymen and so on are also much more likely to leave a lasting impression on a child than an adult.
The amygdala also seems to respond to severe traumas with an unerasable fear response that we call PTSD ("post-traumatic stress disorder").
The key seems to be awareness and understanding. Be open about your fears and it is likely that through the process of thinking them through and talking about them, over time the fear will decrease.
Take care!
the naughty boy
29-03-2004, 15:41
scuse me adi but are you a psychologist? cause i thought it was to do with mental image pictures of bad experiences being restimulated in the subconscious mind,just below the level of analytical awareness,experiences which are real but suppressed and only of use in an unthinking reactive way. and only by actually viewing the full content of these pictures and as-ising them for what they are [ pictures of the past] can you then no longer be plagued by them. thus becoming 100% analytical and no longer "reactive" in your thinking.
works for me. :-D
I'm no psychologist but I've done a lot of reading and research on the topic.
What your talking about is reinforcement of an already instilled belief which is a very valid thing indeed. You get burned by fire and you then fear fire, which is a good thing but if you focus on the fire and your fear of it, you can put yourself into a cycle of fear and become phobic beyond reason.
However, how come we are fearful of things that we've never come across or seen? Such as snakes or the bogeyman or whatever? Also, how do we recognize these scary things ... that's where the amygdala comes into play. It also comes into play in the reinforcement stage too, so if you fear something all the time or out of proportion, you become phobic.
The suggestions you have for dealing with fears are quite valid indeed ... you are trying to override the instinct and use the rational part of the mind to work the problem. It's one of the best techniques but relies on the subject actually wanting to get over their phobia.
If you want to read more on this I'd suggest "Human Instinct" by Robert Winston ... a fascinating read!
the naughty boy
29-03-2004, 17:51
thanks m8 , as for the things we,ve never encountered before...your talking in a one life context,this aint the place for this conversation i know but im talking about a much longer time span and perhaps touching on the subject of instinct.
moving on.....
a good friend of mine once wrote"that which a person can confront,he can handle. the first step of handling anything is gaining an ability to face it."
although im kinda cagey about confronting the five escaped BIG CATS that are roaming loose over here.i **** you not! :shock:
BorderReiver
03-04-2004, 13:46
Don't forget that day old chicks will react in panic if you let a shadow of a raptor fall across them.
We are animals and still have the instinctive fears we had in the early days of our evolution.These fears had a very strong survival purpose and are thus deeply embedded in our subconscious.
Take away the normal buffers of our soft modern lifestyle and expose ourselves to "nature" again and it not surprising that the old defences rise to the surface.
I bet womble has benefited by the experience.Sh*tty to go through but very satisfying to have have faced a fundemental fear and overcome it.
steven andrews
04-04-2004, 17:06
Pull up a sandbag...........
When I was in the army we did some adventure training in Kenya, "hill walking" in the Abadare mountains. On our murderous walks we slept out in the middle of the ulu under ponchos.
A fire had to be maintained all night to ward off lions and whoever was on stag borrowed our Kenyan guide's 303.
However, when two of the guys were on stag, a lioness crept into our camp and had her head UNDER the basha I was sharing before they had time to chuck a thunderflash to scare her off.
I had a job getting back to sleep!!
UK woods are spooky places too though. I was once stalked by a hedgehog whilst on stag in Thetford.
the naughty boy
04-04-2004, 17:11
hmmm id have been up the rest of the night making spears and climbing a tall tree.[i know they can climb,but its harder when a pointy stick is poking you in the face]
truly a pants filling moment m8.
:rolmao: truly a double pants filling moment i think, imagine it , waking up to lion breath
UK woods are spooky places too though. I was once stalked by a hedgehog whilst on stag in Thetford.Hedgehogs sound HUGE when they're lumbering through the undergrowth! I hate to think what something really big - like a lion! - would sound like. :shock: Or is it just the spines that make hedgehogs so noisy??
steven andrews
05-04-2004, 19:47
The year before we went to Kenya a Welsh soldier had been dragged out of his camp by a lion while in his sleeping bag. He curled up at the bottom of his doss bag, zipped it up and played dead.
He was moved some distance but then left, unharmed.
THAT would be a pants-filling moment!
The hedgehog really did sound man-sized when approaching our harbour area. My trigger finger was itching like mad. It came right up to my position.
Then, with the help of my mucker, we picked it up and placed it in one of the sleeping guy's shell scrapes..... to much tittering and giggling. :-)
The hedgehog really did sound man-sized when approaching our harbour area. My trigger finger was itching like mad. It came right up to my position.
Then, with the help of my mucker, we picked it up and placed it in one of the sleeping guy's shell scrapes..... to much tittering and giggling. :-)
:o): :rolmao:
Not all the fears are caused by our own imaginations etc either!
When I was younger my brother DID NOT like having a younger brother. He'd had all the attention for 5 years and suddenly Dad had a new toy!
He did his best to scare the bejeezas out of my with all kinds of pranks - spiders in the bed, playing poltergeist, you name it. Needless to say I started sleeping with a light on.
It wasn't until I found out that being on the highest hill in Kent we had THE best view of the various meteor showers in October/November. Then I discovered how cute and furry bats were and the night became a place of wonder and excitment.
I LOVE the woods at night. Badger watching, bat spotting, owl watching, you name it.
It's strange when you become 'one with the night and nature' and wild animals think 'where the hell did HE come from!?'.
To quote from one of the many cult vampire films 'Let the night become our playground for we have nothing to fear but ourselves...'
< swings lantern >
When I was a young airman it was part of my duty to refuel the 380kva genny that used to power our site , now the site was basically a portacabin and some equipment with sodium flare lamps to provide illumination. Some of the flare units pointed inward which of course blinded you
anyway , one time at midnight it was my turn ( as always ) to refuel and we had just been watching "Alien" , specifically the bit where the baby alien runs around the sick bay.
Outside in the dark , half blinded by the light I made my way across to genny 1 when all of a sudden a small alien like "thing" ran across the patch of light in front
My bpm shot up to around 100
Of course it was a fluffy bunny but you never know , it may have been armed and dangerous
:rolmao:
Especially with HUGE pointy teeth!
One night in the woods, Kate688 and I got startled by a screech owl (darn I know they're not called that in the UK but I forgot what they are called!) and in fright she grabbed on to me and in fright I grabbed onto ... a blackthorn tree! :yikes:
OUCH!!!
Possibly a Tawny?
Possibly a Tawny?That's it, thanks!
No problem :-D
Used to do a bit of owl watching after a barn owl tried to give me heart attack when it removed my hat doing a spot of fishing once... :shock:
MartiniDave
07-06-2004, 11:53
I experienced a genuine panic attack during my Fundamental Bushcraft course at Woodlore a couple of weeks ago.
We were sleeping in leaf litter shelters, I had gone to sleep with no problems whatsoever.
However, I woke at about 1.30, as those of you who have slept in this type of shelter will know they have very good sound insulting properties and are very, very dark. I think it was this silence and total darkness
that got me, but I just had to get out of that shelter, the panic was simply overwhelming.
I spent the rest of the night in my tent and declined to use the shelter again on the following night.
As an aside, getting back to my tent proved to be something of an adventure all of its own, being on unfamiliar ground, with a rolling patchy fog to add to the fun.
I think they call them "character building experiences".
Dave
Dave,
That was the problem with isolation tanks when they were first used. The lack of stimuli was supposed to create a calmness to help people relax but it REALLY freaked some of the first 'guinea pigs'.
Just goes to show you're 'normal'. Whatever that might mean... :wink:
Ouch, you have my full sympathies.
And so the thread comes a full circle; starting with a panic attack in woods and Woodlore helping to sort it, to a panic attack in woods on a Woodlore course!
MartiniDave
07-06-2004, 12:08
Forgot to mention that I was told by one of the instructors that its not uncommon for leaf shelters to have that effect. Apparently a candle burning by the opening can help.
If Roger, the chap who I was sharing the shelter with is reading, Thanks for your help and patience.
Dave
This thread is worth resurrecting.
We used to take people for night jungle walks and drop them off at 50m intervals and leave them for half an hour or so.
Interesting how a few torches would come on after a few minutes despite them being asked to sit quietly and listen to the jungle sounds.
Good call BOD,
All Mind Games really, for the most advanced intelligent ( dangerous ) Creature on the planet we don't half all revert back to being Scared little Mammals once night Comes..!!!
I was camping with my daughter just below a rocky ridge in central Brazil. This was her first "survival" trip and she was sleeping in a hammock off by herself about 15 yards away from me. I was still up by the fire and she had gone to bed, or so I thought. I heard her call, "DAD?!" there was real fear in her voice. "There's something up on the ridge!"
I walked over there thinking OK, this is nothing. I'll just calm her fears, she's only 12. This is mountain lion country but seriously we would be honored to see one.
She was out of her hammock. "OK kid what did you see?" I asked, fishing my 120 lumen Surefire light out of my pocket.
"Up there..."
I blasted the ridge with light...
GIANT GLOWING EYES!!:yikes:
Once I recovered from the shock I could see it was just a big owl.
The next day we made fire hardened spears and felt better about our camp on "Cougar Ridge". Mac
Haha!!..
Whats that saying about Paranonia??
wanderingblade
14-07-2009, 09:44
Not seen this thread before - reading the original post it makes me wish this forum had a rep system. :)
Not seen this thread before - reading the original post it makes me wish this forum had a rep system. :)
+1
Very inspirational post. There's a lot of stuff in this thread where I just nod in agreement and see my scared self in the forests from time to time.
Scariest moments:
Canada, British Columbia, Vancouver Island, on the West Coast Trail, 3rd or 4th day: We were walking along the trail (I was second in line), when I heard screaming, then a loud noise in front. Turns out the guy in front had seen a black bear and, in a panic attack, shot his bear banger instantly. He coudn't even remember where he shot it. My heart was pumping!
That night, we were camped by the beach not far a way (maybe a mile). And on the beach there were cougar prints! :yikes: We had been warned that there's only one cougar around, a 'problem cougar', which actually was considered agressive to humans, sneaking up on them.
We felt being watched the whole evening, and the fire was a lot bigger that it needed have been...
helixpteron
14-07-2009, 11:20
A fascinating insight into human behavior, with particular relevance to being in the woods and wilderness may be found in the book 'Deep Survival' - Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why.
The terms 'Bewilder', 'Bewildered and 'Bewilderment' originate in the chaotic mental state which occurs in people when they find themselves in woods and wilderness!
Prior to seeing this thread, I was going to post about this book as I believe it to be a valuable aid to understanding behavior, particularly in oneself, and that reading this book will better prepare the reader, irrespective of their background, training or experience.
For over 35 years, the author has been studying accidents and their roots in human behavior, the book is the culmination of that research.
http://ebooks-imgs.connect.com/product/400/000/000/000/000/160/559/400000000000000160559_s4.jpg
"OK kid what did you see?" I asked, fishing my 120 lumen Surefire light out of my pocket.
"Up there..."
I blasted the ridge with light...
GIANT GLOWING EYES!!:yikes:
Err :Wow: BLIND Giant Glowing Eyes!:Wow:
firecrest
14-07-2009, 12:44
Its strange that Im the opposite. Im very happy in the dark in the woods on my own. Lighting a fire or putting a torch on scares me because it makes me visible.
perhaps its because my own fear centers around meeting people in the darkness not the dark itself or the wild animals/spooks.
Yeah, it's a good thing they can hear really well. Mac
Cant remember when i last heard of any one being munched by a wolf or bear,in their sleep in NW Europe?
Or being axed/chainsawed to death in their sleeping bags whilst in the middle of a wood?
However stabbed,raped,killed in their beds seems to be common in towns and citys.
Seems you are safer in the woods.
Hope you feel better now about the woods at night;pleasant dreams,sleep well(and make shure the doors and windows are locked)
I don't think I am cut out for this night time camping malarkey.
I am alright if with someone else but on my own start to panic a little. I am 6'5" and just shy of 20 stone so don't think meeting other people frightens me. Not worried about animals wanting me for dinner, so I assume my overactive imagination must assume Freddy Kruger is out there or something.
The fire is also a double edged sword for me, without it, I hate it been too dark, but with it I feel it is more of a beacon letting Freddy know where I am.
Last few times I have camped out solo, I have slept with a nice big piece of wood by my side and my GF axe under the pillow.
Many animals make sounds which are unfamiliar to us, and at night they come over as being much louder and closer than they actually are. I use a night scope when out alone and if I hear something which I can't identify, then using this single little luxury item I can quickly see what it is and any concerns I may have had just disappears. I really enjoy the night solitude of lone camping but it can be more enjoyable with someone else on occasion to share the sights and sounds of the flora, fauna, vistas, and experiences. No fear just a calmness and serenity.
Hi
Firstly what an honest and open thread!
As i am 'amongst' friends, the problem i have is going places, i get so worked up sometimes that i make myself ill and this has before stopped my going out on trips.
But then once im there, im fine and in my element and confident.
Drop me in the middle of no where with a knife and no boots and I would give it a good crack! :)
But getting me on the trip in the first place is hard and I can be a right mess!
Does anyone have any sugestions to over come this please?
As many people have said nothing bad in the woods other than a slighlty angry wasp! More likely to get 'trouble' in the city!
Hi
Firstly what an honest and open thread!
As i am 'amongst' friends, the problem i have is going places, i get so worked up sometimes that i make myself ill and this has before stopped my going out on trips.
But then once im there, im fine and in my element and confident.
Drop me in the middle of no where with a knife and no boots and I would give it a good crack! :)
But getting me on the trip in the first place is hard and I can be a right mess!
Does anyone have any sugestions to over come this please?
As many people have said nothing bad in the woods other than a slighlty angry wasp! More likely to get 'trouble' in the city!
Maybe try to define your internal start of the trip as being earlier, like for you, defining that packing is already part of the trip?
Mike
calibanzwei
16-07-2009, 12:04
Nothing in the woods at night that isn't there during the day. Maybe. :D
IIRC this is called 'wood shock' - there's written about it by a few psych's. Occured numerous times by people who ended up (forced) in the bush all by them self. Seems plausible it also happens with those who chose to go voluntarely.
Personaly I never encountered this ... That could tell something about my mental state (one way or another :D) ;)
helixpteron
16-07-2009, 14:14
IIRC this is called 'wood shock' - there's written about it by a few psych's.......
Yes, 'Woods Shock' is the modern term, dating from at least 1873, where it appeared in the journal 'Nature'.
I didn't actually know this prior to reading of it in Lawrence Gonzales's book.
Matthew.Passmore
16-07-2009, 15:11
I sometimes start to get a bit panicked when getting ready to go to bed, I get visions of big cats coming up behind me, maybe it's because I feel in a more vulnerable state having taken my kit off and having my feet confined by the sleeping bag.
biggest fright I've ever had is when I woke up one morning to see a big spider on the inside of my hammock I jumped that much I fell out of the hammock still in the sleeping bag and hit the floor :p luckily no one saw :o
John Fenna
16-07-2009, 16:30
Panic can be infectious!
I took mt wife backpacking on Jura one time and - she is no real outdoorsy type - the sound of the silence, punctuated by the sound of deer, had her realy wigging out!
Such was her state I got paniced as well.
It took a lot longer to walk across the island on day 1 than it did to return on day 2!
I can be at total peace on my own out in the wilds (though I tend to go to bed rather early as I like early starts) but once someone you are with starts panicing - there goes the ambiance!
charadeur
16-07-2009, 22:49
Have you ever heard a jack rabbit screaming at 2:00 am as a coyote is killing it? It sounds like a banshee is coming to get you. There will be no more sleeping after that.
We have black bears, wolfs, and coyotes in MI. Probably the wolf is the most dangerous of the three because they are protected and not hunted. Coyotes and bears will run but you want to be vocal so they know you are a human.
Of most concern to me in the US is places where their are mountain lion and brown bears. Mountain lion can stalk you without you knowing they are there. Brown bears can be dangerous but normally if they know you are human they will run. If they don't run try to look big or as unappetizing as possible. :)
Bushwhacker
17-07-2009, 08:46
Is this thread serious?
Is this thread serious?Somalia saying, “Even a brave man is scared of a lion three times; first when he sees the tracks; second when he hears the first roar and third when they are face to face” :240:
Bushwhacker
17-07-2009, 09:38
Somalia saying, “Even a brave man is scared of a lion three times; first when he sees the tracks; second when he hears the first roar and third when they are face to face” :240:
Dorset saying: "Stop being such a big baby and MTFU" :yelrotflm
Panic attacks are not a laughing matter. Its far more than simply being scared.
We had an American girl on her first jungle hash and the group she was with were off paper. It was growing dark and there was a powerful storm developing with frequent lightning flashes and thunder. She felt, unreasonably, that they would never get out and started hyperventilating and a nurse, who happened to be with her, was not able to calm her down and she passed out.
On being revived she soon had another attack and passed out again. This happened several times and she was carried by the group in turns. When they got comms they called for an ambulance and doctor and a miliatry ambulance was despatched. After a several hours they got out and she was sent to hospital. Passed out in the ambulance as well, i was told.
Panic attacks can seriously affect and exhaust a group which has a member down more so than even seriously sprained ankles.
Ho hum, I suspect I might be too dim to get worked up by the woods. I do however get panicked in town, and refuse to set foot in the Tube in summer because it makes me claustrophobic to be locked in a small cylinder with several hundred unwashed types...
Closest I ever had to a strange encounter was at Sandhurst. We were in a patrol harbour somewhere on Salisbury plain, and I was trying to get my head down when I heard a noise. Uh oh - Gurkhas come to spoil our night, ferret about inside bivi bag and quietly cock the rifle. More rustling about in the bushes, about to shout "Stand To" when I heard a "mew" and a kitten comes wandering out of the bushes, looking pretty scrawny and sorry for itself. Rest of my few hours kip was spent knocking up lukewarm milk and scrounging tuna out of other folks' ration packs. Shame I couldn't take the little critter with me...
Hmm, I've been sleeping out since I was eight, which is getting dangerously close to being forty years now so I don't regard myself as being someone easily scared by stuff going screech in the night.
Had a couple of incidents worthy of telling here though. The first being in Florida on a site with a sign saying "Do not feed the Alligators", we were woken in the early ours by something coming in the back of the tent. :eek: Turned out to be a pet ferret from another camper. More scary was while canoeing on the Zambezi during an evening we had two bull hippos disputing territory charge through the middle of our camp! A definite pulse raiser I assure you!
So I think you get the point I'm not exactly fresh to this, yet last year I couldn't sleep and rather than disturb everyone by trying to be quite while making a brew downstairs at three in the morning, I thought I'd go for a walk. It was a lovely night clear and starlit, I was enjoying listening to foxes barking etc and it was generally very pleasant. All of a sudden the thought of a big cat popped into my head and that was it. I wasn't a gibbering wreck but definitely suffering a case of the colleywobbles. Clearly the chances of being attacked are less than that of a lottery win, but the thought was there. It reminded me of Bob Perkins on one of his trips in the Canadian Arctic when he said about getting no sleep one night because 'the bear' had got into his head. Again he said the chances of being attacked where pretty small, but once the thought was there, it wouldn't go.
Clearly I know the chances of being attacked by a bear within the arctic circle are much greater than a big cat attacking me in rural Yorkshire, but it's the stuff going on in your head that is the problem.
What to do about it, not sure. I've been out many times since without a problem. I hope others get over it too.
Al
helixpteron
17-07-2009, 11:04
Is this thread serious?
A documented syndrome exists, which has been formally studied for at least 136 years, due to its capacity to rapidly lead to the deaths of even the most experienced people.
Asking if the thread is serious beggars belief and is disrespectful to those whom share their personal fears in order to help others!