View Full Version : Paganwolf's Cup
tenbears10
14-10-2004, 11:34
The new pictures in the gallery have got me thinking, I've had a go at some spoons but the cup looks great. How do you go about choosing suitable wood? Which way does the grain go in relation to the cup and the handle?
Anyone else with pictures of their cup work I would love to see them.
Bill
for a cup or bowl you need to find a burl i believe!
A burl is nice but not totally necessary.
Take a look here (http://gamma.nic.fi/~esa2k/engl/mug.htm)
I have a bought kuksa that is the same as this and it holds liquids fine.
indeed.. but i am told that a burl is significantly less likly to split.. though i guess it depends on the wood!?
tenbears10
14-10-2004, 11:49
That is what I was looking for thanks guys. You have to remove quite a lot of wood if you don't use a saw don't you.
Bill
indeed.. but i am told that a burl is significantly less likly to split.. though i guess it depends on the wood!?
Yes I guess so but as long as you season it correctly you should be alright (presuming green wood is being used). If you leave the piece of work in a plastic bag with the waste wood while you're not working on it you should be ok.
for a cup or bowl you need to find a burl i believe!
I would disagree, a mug is a larger version of a spoon or noggin. A spoon or noggin does not require a burl, in the end I think it is more how you either seal it or carve it.
If you have nothing to seal wood then a burl is better, but if you do have something to seal wood then it should not be a problem.
Liberon make numerous types of oils and sealers, have a look. I may well be wrong, but this is the general way I look at woodworking. There are natural sealants as well, if you wish I can look them up for you or you can ask the guys here, some are a lot more knowledgeable than I :wave:
You have to remove quite a lot of wood if you don't use a saw don't you.
Bill
or your hatchet :wink:
have look at this one made by Rapidboy (http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showpost.php?p=79794&postcount=5)
Paganwolf
14-10-2004, 13:03
Hey all, my burl cup was started with an axe then knife and crook knife i had to sharpen the spoon knife 3 times when carving the bowl out as burls are damn hard but a burl is not neccesary for carving a cup/kuksa a pice of birch (or what ever wood you can get) spit down the middle then using one half of the log makes for a good cup too remember to remove the center heart wood so theres none in the walls of your cup, its easy to do just split your log slightly off center or just carve it out and its much less likely to split. Tongue oil is another good oil as it is non toxic, boiled linseed oil went on my butter knife to give it the nice dark finish,just wipe the oil on rub in nicely with your hands and a bit of cloth then wip the excess off and leave to absorb, repeat this as many times as needed :wink: the wood used for the knife is oak and was rescued from the end of a branch which was destined for the fire, dont be too woried about the wood at first a bit of pine from your local wood yard is fine even if you carve it and it ends up like a match stick the first few times once you cet your carving and cutting tecniques off pat with out cutting your self :roll: things become much easier, and one tip is to wrap your thumb in a plaster "before" you carve with your crook knife, just in case :wink:
... and one tip is to wrap your thumb in a plaster "before" you carve with your crook knife, just in case :wink:
or use an Inuit thimble!
http://www.primitiveways.com/images/pt-thimble1.jpeg http://www.primitiveways.com/images/pt-thimble2.jpeg
Keith_Beef
14-10-2004, 16:25
Any Finns in here willing to go to http://gamma.nic.fi/~niny/ and follow the Kuksan teko link?
"Lopuksi hiotaan, hiotaan ja hiotaan asteittain hienonevalla paperilla"
KKK.
Any woods toxic if used to make drinking vessels?
I'll remember the 'thimble' trick ( he says glancing down at superglued thumb ) next time I try using a razor blade to take cuttings.
Here's a list of toxic woods (http://www.mimf.com/archives/toxic.htm).
theres a lot on there.. which one might consider safe to use for a bowl or mug!
Paganwolf
14-10-2004, 17:12
most of these woods are only harmfull if you eat them :roll: or powderise them (eg wood dust) and inhale the stuff, what wood can you get hold of? birch,oak,ash,alder,apple,cher ry,willow are all good i could go on more but you get the idea :wink:
TheViking
14-10-2004, 17:19
most of these woods are only harmfull if you eat them :roll: or powderise eg wood dust and inhale the stuff, what wood can you get hold of?
Yeah, and the Sapmi people has been carving kuksas out of birch for centuries and they know what they are doing. :wink:
Off topic i know,but thats a nice looking Bully in your photos PaganWolf.Great dogs,my dear old dad had four of them two bitches and two dogs.Real characters and loyal guards.
Paganwolf
14-10-2004, 18:14
yes shes a good ol girl, 3yrs old strong as an Ox shes dragged my little cub connor along on his belly a few times :o): and my little girl rides on her like a horse!!! :o): ill stick one of my irish staff his a pukka mutt too:wink: shes not much good at carving though :rolmao: chewing yes carving no :rolmao:
falling rain
14-10-2004, 18:33
I'm getting a crook knife, a wood carving knife and a 4 piece set of whittlin jack carvers for my birthday. :hyper: My first project is going to be a Kuksa. :shock: My question is does anyone know if western red cedar would be suitable for making it. ? there's some been felled were I go over near Princes Risborough, and the colour of the wood is just gorgeous. A lovely dark red (surprising enough. Hence the name :lol: )
Has anyone made a Kuksa from Western red before ?
Cheers :wave:
Hi guys, this talk of kuksa prompts me to suggest looking back through the past threads for previous posts on the topic. I started one myself when I realised that there was little information about how these are really made up in Scandinavia and couldn't make sense of some comments I'd seen.
An important method is to rough carve the cup quickly (keeping it damp so that it doesn't split), then boil (if I remember right) it in strongly salted water after which it should be wrapped in damp cloths and left to dry SLOWLY to prevent splitting. The salt water boil helps to slow down drying. Drying time to aim for is about 6 weeks. The finish carving is done later in the process, and once dry and finished, the cup is sealed using vegetable oil.
There's more detail and links in the previous thread.
Cheers :biggthump
I always seek out birch burls for any kuksa that I make, as they make the nicest and best looking kuksas of them all. You can of cause make them by splitting a log to carve from, but in my experience these are more likely to crack (although not necessarily, and burls can crack too!) than when using a burl with twisted and tight grain. The grain in burls are usually twisted and locked into each other, therefore stronger than straight grain, but eventually it all comes down to how you finish the cup. Some people use linseed oil, and I have done that too in times past, but mostly I now use peanut oil or "paraffin oil" (paraffin as in paraffin wax, and not the stuff that you use on your stove!!) - which are tasteless (especially the "paraffin oil"). I also know that some people use to paint the inside of the kuksa with epoxy, but I’ve never done that myself. Any wooden cup can hold water, but when used for hot brews like tea or coffee the wooden cup takes a beating if not finished properly (hot on the inside / cold on the outside).
When I have collected a burl for a cup, I rough out a semi finished cup before drying it. To do that I will use a saami knife (called Nii'pe by the Saami people, and leuku by some on this forum. I think leuku is a Finnish word?) and an axe. I try to visualise the finished kuksa in the burl before I do anything with the knife or axe, and then make the kuksa in rough dimensions (thickness about 10 – 15 mm). For the actual cup hole I first use an adze and then a spoon knife and / or a hooked gouge (see www.djarv.se for some good tools). The rough dimensions are done as soon as possible after the burl has been cut from the tree – usually I do it in the evening when sitting at the campfire or in my workshop if I’m back home.
When the rough kuksa has been made, it is time to let it dry completely. This should preferably be done slowly in order to prevent cracking and splitting – there are several ways to do this. One is to place the burl / kuksa in a plastic bag with wet wood shavings, but if you use this method you have to check regularly and be careful so that the kuksa wont go mouldy when attacked by fungi - as in spalted wood. Another and better method that I use frequently is to boil the rough kuksa for about an hour (depending on size of the kuksa) in water with some salt in it. The salt will bind the water in the wood and prevent too fast drying. When finish boiled the kuksa can be put aside to dry in room temperature for at least 8 or 9 weeks – I usually leave them to dry in my workshop for at least 6 months at a slightly lower temperature (which I find also prevent cracking).
When the kuksa is dry I thin down the walls a bit more (final thickness usually between 6 – 10 mm), and sand the cup both outside and inside with up to at least 600 grit (sometimes up to 1000#). Shaping can be done with rasp, files, spoon knife, gouge and sandpaper.
When finished sanding I place the kuksa (warmed at the fireplace or a few seconds in the microwave oven) in a small bucket (I usually use a 5 litre plastic ice box) filled with slightly warm oil for some 3-6 hours. You can also rub the oil in with your hands. After that it is placed on a drying rack to dry for several weeks.
The pic here shows a recently made kuksa of a mountain birch burl that was two years old before I finished it. It has been oiled with peanut oil.
http://www.britishblades.com/photopost/data/500/569GJ_Noggin1-med.jpg
Paganwolf
14-10-2004, 20:12
Nice cup n Knives Gerd!! :wink: The crook knives on the site youve posted look like the ones RM sells, the prices are in Kr how much are they in pounds?
Nice cup n Knives Gerd!! :wink: The crook knives on the site youve posted look like the ones RM sells, the prices are in Kr how much are they in pounds?
265 Kr is about £22 according to xe.com
That's a beauty Gerd :biggthump
That is a beauty of a cup and so are the knives Wiking duden.I wish i could do something as nice as those myself.
Paganwolf
14-10-2004, 20:50
:shock: cheers Familne
oops, that was Norwegian kroner, 265 Swedish kronor is about £20!
Paganwolf
14-10-2004, 21:11
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
the cup is sealed using vegetable oil.
Iv made a spoon and sealed it with vegetable oil, untill it was saturated. About 10 weeks ago :?: . the oil still has not hardened. If i press my nail against it oil comes to the surface. Do I just use it now?
falling rain
15-10-2004, 13:44
Thanks very much Tvividr. That's some great advice and a good link.
Much appreciated :super:
masongary44
15-10-2004, 15:57
OK dumb question, but being new to the crafts side of bushcraft and very much new to carving etc...
What do you mean by the term Burl????
:?:
Dnt worry,basically a burl is the lump or scar on the tree that is left when a branch has rotted out and the bark has grown over the wound. they are good for making cups as the grain follows the shape of the cup and water is less likely to seep out.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=burl&r=67
Paganwolf
15-10-2004, 16:38
Yeah a Tree scab :yikes: :roll: :wink:
Cheers guys !
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
:o): seems that you guys also have to pay dearly for some things, good to know that it is not always the other way around :roll:
masongary44
18-10-2004, 09:46
Thanks for that guys,... I am slowly getting the hang of the tree terminology :)
Paganwolf
18-10-2004, 18:20
Heres a few burls so you know what to look out for
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jlamour1/Picture1074.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jlamour1/Picture1070.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jlamour1/Picture1071.jpg
and this bend in this Birch would make an ideal pair of blanks for a couple of spoons
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jlamour1/Picture1073.jpg
i wouldn't just go hacking them off in your local wood you may get into trouble :nono: as it harms and can kill the tree, but if you see forestry commission or park rangers ect felling trees they will probably chop a couple off for you :biggthump
Paganwolf is right - there is a safe way to remove the burls without harming the tree although you do need permission unless you own the tree.
However I wont cover the technique here as I dont want to encourage people to go out looping up trees - if your real interested someone like Mors Kochanski can give you all the info.
You can nearly always find appropriate wood for spoons etc that has already come down, I've never cut a living tree to make a spoon or bowl. That's not to say I wouldn’t if it's a needs must situation :wink:
Contacting your local tree surgeon can be a good idea as they're getting branches etc all the time, excellent stuff to practice on for bowls, spoons etc :biggthump
or use an Inuit thimble!
That is - by a long shot - the best tip/trick I have seen yet! Simple solution to common problem. A round of applause, I think!