View Full Version : Titanium pots & fire...
As I am getting older I seem to have lost the ability to carry heavy packs for great distances, maybe I need a jumped up full screw to chase me around again - Probably snot him now tho:rolleyes: rather than run around!
Back to the point: I have just bought a titanium 900ml pot from Evil bay and am well impressed with the weight saving over my Zebra or MSR billy's. The question is how do they cope with a "real" fire as opposed to a meths burner?
Has anyone tried it?
Simon
They work great. Transfer heat as well as aluminum, and you sure aren't going to melt it.
Which pot did you go for Simon ?
Was it one of the Snow Peak ones ?
They work great. Transfer heat as well as aluminum, and you sure aren't going to melt it.
Thanks... I should get out this weekend so will give it a try.
Simon
Which pot did you go for Simon ?
Was it one of the Snow Peak ones ?
Went for this one...
http://i4.ebayimg.com/03/i/001/0c/a3/1e6b_1.JPG
From these folk on Evilbay...
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Trek-Lite
Only took 2 days to arrive. I had a play last night with my Vargo Ti Triad meths burner and it took just under 8 minutes to boil 500ml of water.
As I said, I'm trying to lighten my pack by using lighter equipment these days. Have just ditched (passed on to minime) my issue goretex bivvy bag and bought a Snugpack version too. Every gram counts...
Simon
As I said, I'm trying to lighten my pack by using lighter equipment these days. Have just ditched (passed on to minime) my issue goretex bivvy bag and bought a Snugpack version too. Every gram counts...
Simon
I think we`re all in the same boat there, not quite got to the sawing the toothbrush in half stage yet though.
Cheers for the link
Could you check the link again Simon, I think it`s just to the picture.
I suppose I could find it by searching but I`m too lazy
The snugpack bivvy is a good bit of kit, used one for the first time last weekend and very impressed, packs to nothing, plenty of room and is very lightweight, I think it may need a bit more careful handling over the issue one but time will tell.
Could you check the link again Simon, I think it`s just to the picture.
I suppose I could find it by searching but I`m too lazy
Already changed it ...
Simon
Excellent
Will you be modding it with a bail arm ?
The snugpack bivvy is a good bit of kit, used one for the first time last weekend and very impressed, packs to nothing, plenty of room and is very lightweight, I think it may need a bit more careful handling over the issue one but time will tell.
I picked up the stratosphere from Tamarack last weekend. The first thing I did was put it on the kitchen scales...
All together =1380g:eek:
Tent pegs alone = 410g :eek: :eek:
So I have changed them for titanium:rolleyes: 6 pegs at 6g each.
As I said, every gram counts:D
Simon
Excellent
Will you be modding it with a bail arm ?
Probably.... I still have some steel braided cable left from when I did my Zebra's.
Simon
I picked up the stratosphere from Tamarack last weekend. The first thing I did was put it on the kitchen scales...
All together =1380g:eek:
Tent pegs alone = 410g :eek: :eek:
So I have changed them for titanium:rolleyes: 6 pegs at 6g each.
As I said, every gram counts:D
Simon
Ah, I was not talking about the Stratosphere but this one
http://www.naturestrails.co.uk/index.php?id=8
Stratosphere's are good as well though
Ah, I was not talking about the Stratosphere but this one
http://www.naturestrails.co.uk/index.php?id=8
Stratosphere's are good as well though
I went for the Stratosphere for the bug protection... my "playground" can be somewhat uncomfortable in summer!
I intend to use it with a tarp to give me a decent sized admin area as well.
Simon
I use titanium pot when covering long distances for the considerable weight saving they give. Have used it over fire as well. I find you have to be a little careful as they heat up very fast due to their thin construction but as long as you are aware and stir often it's no problem, the handles heat up quickly (more so than a crusader mug) but i don't find it a problem and just keep something handy to grab them with if needed. I am able to drink directly out of ti mug when used on fire as the intial hot rim soons cools enough for this and blow on rim just before drinking (though i have been told i have asbestos lips), as long as you are careful enough not to let ti pot overheat and burn grub and don't mind the hot handles they're good, and the weight saving is worth the little extra care in their use. Also on a personal level i much prefer the round shape as opposed to the crusader mug shape, i have used the msr ti kettle/mug as i like the size better than the snow peak as it's lower and wider which i prefer for ease of use/cleaning. I haven't fitted a bail as i have not found the need to do so and just scrape out some hot coals and place pot on a couple of sticks to allow air beneath pot.Coincidentally i also use the snugpag bivvy too, miles better than the brit army one in pack size and weight. i like a light pack to carry and if that means taking a little extra care then personally i don't mind that and think it's worth it. Also my culinary needs are simple.
drliamski
16-10-2008, 18:42
Has anyone used a titanium or other double walled cup on the fire?
Or even on a stove?
Would this cause probs due to heating change or preassure?
Liam
:confused:
Landy_Dom
16-10-2008, 19:14
Has anyone used a titanium or other double walled cup on the fire?
Or even on a stove?
Would this cause probs due to heating change or preassure?
Liam
:confused:
DON'T DO IT!!!
The whole reason for building them double walled is for fantastic insulation - and as well as keeping the heat of your brew IN for ages they'll also prevent transfer of heat from a fire to the contents. There may also be risk of the thing failing due to huge temperature difference between the inner and outer walls. Seriously - don't go there!
I carry a double walled mug with the handle dremelled off inside my billy (nests nicely) - this way i get the best of both worlds :)
Dom.
What the average layman doesn’t know is that common engineering metals/alloys all have a very similar modulus of elasticity to density ratio. Even the strength to density ratio changes little.
What this means is the flexural rigidity ratio to density is, within a few percent, the same for Aluminium, stainless steel, titanium etc Simply put, for the same ‘squigyness’ in a mug there is little between the metals for the same enclosed volume for the same weight of mug.
Where titanium scores, if at all, is that it has higher yield strength to density ratio than aluminium, while still having a reasonable ductility unlike stainless steel. This enables it to be formed into a thinner cup that for practical purposes won’t dent as easily as an aluminium cup of the same weight. But only by 20% which is not a great deal in a mug now only weighing a few grams.
Titanium alloys are harder than aluminium, and have a higher melting point. Both of these points don’t really affect a camp pots performance unless you use a chisel to clean it, or are in the habit of putting the pot on the fire without any fluid in it.
In practical terms and open fire is unlikely to ever be capable of melting a thin aluminium pot if it has any fluid in it. (Possible exception here is to melt snow like an idiot, but then natural selection will take care of that....:D )
Contra to popular misconception, there has never been any scientific correlation between using aluminium cookware and Alzheimer's, just another urban myth along the lines of the ‘Russian space pen’
( Hummm? A piece of highly conductive graphite floating around a spaceship full of life supporting electronics? I’d pay for the million dollar development of the fisher space pen!)
As for thermal conduction, in the wall thicknesses were talking about for camping pots/mugs the difference is negligible in any practical terms.
I tend to think that aluminium is your best bet for complex or large area forms like kettles and fry pans. As for a pot or mug, thin stainless steel is as good as anything else and a lot cheaper...
I suppose titanium sounds high tech, so is marketing man’s dream. But considering the price, there just not worth the money in my opinion. It’s a shame no one has tried to make a really light stainless mug, but I doubt anyone would ever consider a stainless mug at £50 a pop good value, even if it was the same weight and performance as a titanium one.
For those who have a titanium mug, you do realise that all the titanium used in these mugs is recycled from defunct Russian nuclear submarines. You may think this is cool for your mug to have this former life, but ponder this. The Russians were the only nation able to build titanium hulls for two reasons. Firstly the ore is present inside their borders. Secondly, they rounded up every decent educated liberal in the country and worked them to death in Siberia mining the stuff.:(
Good post Bimble
I did think the thermal conductivity of Ti was poor compared to Al, and Ti is heavier that Al. But because Ti is stronger, you need less of it.
drliamski
16-10-2008, 20:03
DON'T DO IT!!!
The whole reason for building them double walled is for fantastic insulation - and as well as keeping the heat of your brew IN for ages they'll also prevent transfer of heat from a fire to the contents. There may also be risk of the thing failing due to huge temperature difference between the inner and outer walls. Seriously - don't go there!
I carry a double walled mug with the handle dremelled off inside my billy (nests nicely) - this way i get the best of both worlds :)
Dom.
Do you mean its still insulated but with the handle removed there is an air bridge, allowing pressure changes which will stop and dangerous situations arising?
The reason I ask is more to keep a drink warm etc and for safety rather than actually using the doubled walled cup as a pot/cooking vessel.
Liam
Oh and great post Bimble, i def did not know about the actual benifits of titanium versus steel and alluminium which it seems are quiet minor.
Secondly, they rounded up every decent educated liberal in the country and worked them to death in Siberia mining the stuff.:(
Not buying titanium kit isn't going to undo that eh?
Thanks for the edumacation though.
;)
Scots_Charles_River
16-10-2008, 20:27
Theory
All of those metals have different graphs when put thru a Tensile test. They may have some commonalities but they do differ a lot. Now carbon fibre mugs........
Nick
Spaniel man
16-10-2008, 20:45
Just had a look at that link on Ebay. That stuff looks suspiciously similar to the stuff Alpkit do, Have only just got a pot from them and it was considerably cheaper, postage included, and a great service from a very friendly bunch. Check them out.http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=category&category_id=283
Also, don't know if anyone has had the same problem but titanium spoons taste horrid!
I can't say I've ever used it on a open fire but I can highly recomend Evernew non stick titanium stuff. Not sure if any one stocks it in the UK but I get mine from the US in lieu of cash when sending kit to mates over there..
It's very light and easy to keep clean, they do a small handleless (comes with pan lifter which I think is Ti as well) frying pan that makes a excellent deep sided plate and nests in another fry pan with folding handles.
They do a whole range of sizes, the biggest I have is about 6 pints, which is as big as I'll ever need.
http://www.evernewamerica.com
No connection with the company of course but one happy bunny of a customer. When I had a question for them they got me a answer from their design team in Japan within a couple of days.
'Picked up a jumbo sized plastic Light my Fire spork to use for stiring and serving to help preserve the non stick and going to get Sea to Summit folding ti table knife so I don't have to use something with a real edge for eating with.
Tom
Landy_Dom
18-10-2008, 13:17
Do you mean its still insulated but with the handle removed there is an air bridge, allowing pressure changes which will stop and dangerous situations arising?
The reason I ask is more to keep a drink warm etc and for safety rather than actually using the doubled walled cup as a pot/cooking vessel.
Liam
Oh and great post Bimble, i def did not know about the actual benifits of titanium versus steel and alluminium which it seems are quiet minor.
The handle was spot welded to the outer wall of the mug - i dremmelled it off leaving the outer wall (and therefore the vacuum) undamaged. The only reason for this was ease of storage - I usually hold double wall mugs by the side, not the handle, anyway as they never get very hot. I only use it as a mug, NEVER a cooking pot (hence nesting it in the billy). Hope this clarifies.
Dom.