View Full Version : The Experts Choice
I joined this forum a few years back and I recall back then, the Woodlore knife was seen as one of the best, if not the best choices. Since then the choice seems to have widened, and the Woodlore has become harder (and more expensive) to acquire.
Often newcomers wish to make a safe choice by simply using what the experts do, but sometimes we forget 'Bushcraft' is not a new subject. So here's a roundup of what a few famous experts have used over the years.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/bushknives009.jpg
First up - the Woodlore. Designed by Ray Mears, made by Alan Wood. Wilkinson Sword also made similar but not identical Woodlores at the sword factory at Acton.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/bushknives011.jpg
Its very good, but quite heavy and the blade is thicker than many prefer. The Alan Wood models have a fuller handle. All are 01 steel. I don't use mine much - I canoe on saltwater, I prefer a lighter knife and truth be told, they are too expensive to risk losing. Can't fault the design though.
Second - the Marbles 'Expert'
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/bushknives012.jpg
This is the exact model advocated by Cal Rutstrum, a very famous outdoorsman of the 1920s to 1960s. These are old knives - essentially turn of the century designs with stacked leather handles. You see similar models by various American and Sheffield makers. Ellsworth Jaeger (Wildwood Wisdom) and Bill Mason (Song of the Paddle) advocated the same design. It has a fairly thin 5 inch blade of very good carbon steel. Easy to sharpen. The two shown here are of the same design, but the one with the phenolic butt is of wartime manufacture - aluminium was needed for the war effort.
Nowadays unfashionable, but light and still a good knife.
Third - the Mora
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/bushknives013.jpg
Choice of Mors Kochanski. The plastic handled versions may be more ergonomic but I like the 'number one' wooden handled model in his book. Made by Erikson or Frost, usually carbon steel, this one is laminated. Fantastic knives, do everything you need. Sheaths are plastic but practical.
Fourth- the Puuko - but I'm cheating a bit here:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/bushknives014.jpg
Sigurd Olson was a deep thinking outdoorsman, roughly contemporary with Rutstrum. He's most famous for his books that focus on well, wilderness theology really. But he was accomplished outdoors and travelled thousands of wilderness miles.
He wrote: 'I own an old Finnish knife or puukko, the blade made from an old file, the handle and molded case of birch bark I have carried it for thousands of miles and it has never failed me. The well-tempered steel is hard enough to open a tin and still sharp enough to fillet a fish without needing retouching.....far more than a tool, that knife is to me a symbol of the spirit that went into the cabin, the canoes, and all things made by men...'
Puukkos have a stick tang and a birch handle so I am cheating here - this knife is really a cross between a traditional Finnish puukko and a modern woodlore type full tang knife. Like most mongrels it has 'hybrid vigour' and I like it a lot. It is of course the Enzo sold by Brisa in Finland in D2 steel with stabilised curly birch handles. A traditional puukko is also an excellent choice - if Sig Olsons never failed him, its unlikely yours will.
Bottom line - any of the above are good choices.
Barn Owl
15-10-2008, 22:52
What's your fave Doc?
I've a real inclination to 3mm bushy or Scandinavian knifes at the mo'.
But of course I 'need' my 4 and 5mm bushies just in case.:rolleyes:
What a cracking idea for a post.
I've never understood the conformity with knife types .
For me a knife choice is as personal as my choice in books or music.
Just because one knife suits one author does not mean it is the "right" choice for everyone.
fantastic post! and some fantastic books for me to stock up on there too.
i like this : far more than a tool, that knife is to me a symbol of the spirit that went into the cabin, the canoes, and all things made by men...'
very true
Prawnster
15-10-2008, 23:37
Brilliant! Love that first pic, it looks like a bushcraft guru knife-off!:D
I really want an enzo now, they do someting to me!:cool:
wildrover
16-10-2008, 00:21
Excellant post Doc.
I have a few nice pieces, and I have said this before....
If the only knife I could have was a Mora then I'd be cool with that.
Very neat post. A great selection of texts and their supporting hardware.
Somehow I think Sigurd got it most right....and Mors newest Skookum, in my view, tops them all.
Of all the knives, I prefer the Mora. My choice - as cheap as it is - is the #510 Carbon Steel Mora (http://www.bensbackwoods.com/servlet/Detail?no=13)
I was thinking last night that I ought to buy a dozen of them, and scatter them about the house, the car trunk, all my camping kit and - heck - put some in the shed.
Ah... nothing like a good carbon blade. I've tried the laminated blades - even created a customized handle for one - but have decided they are worthless. I can't use rely on one to cast sparks from a ferro rod or even a piece of flint.
Cheers,
Mungo
robin wood
16-10-2008, 08:06
Great post.:You_Rock_
w00dsmoke
16-10-2008, 09:19
Doc-you never cease to amaze me. What a fantastic collection and well presented article.
How do you fancy doing a summary and comparison of the writers you wrote about?
Now that would open the door to many a new reader. And...theres a few more to add to the list too;)
Thanks for showing us your collection.
WS
Good post Doc, it does look like you have been raiding by bookcase though, Sig Olson is probably my favourite outdoors writer, his style and writing skills just capture the moment and feeling.
A good site about the man and his writing
http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/JMC/Olson/
I've been after an Marbles ' Expert' for a while now, still looking if anyone has one for sale.
Thanks for all the comments.
The knife I actually use most is still my Grohmann boat knife.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/pewing/knoydart139.jpg
This is also the choice of the Canadian armed forces, but I don't have any books by them.:rolleyes: The boat knife is really a modification of the original Grohmann Russell knife, and that is also a very old design: Grohmann have been making them for 50 years, and I think Herter's made a similar type before that.
It's perhaps a bit of heresy to the knife aficionados, but I reckon it doesn't really matter too much which knife you choose so long as you avoid the cheap rubbish, double edged blades, huge Rambo blades, hollow handles and suchlike.
The Enzo is a very nice knife and you can polish the scales to a high gloss. It's not too heavy either as the tang is partly drilled out. The blade is slightly shorter than the others so it may be less good for batoning wood. I think some Finns regard batoning as no way to treat a good knife.
w00dsmoke - I have a pretty good wilderness library and some book reviews would be a great idea. In particular I like the classic wilderness living guides from the 1920s to 1960s. I think these older authors knew a thing or two.
If, like me you like the old school writings of outdoors men Doc, have you tried Kreps, very good.
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Kreps,%20Elmer%20Harry
gregorach
16-10-2008, 10:35
It's perhaps a bit of heresy to the knife aficionados, but I reckon it doesn't really matter too much which knife you choose so long as you avoid the cheap rubbish, double edged blades, huge Rambo blades, hollow handles and suchlike.
Makes sense to me... What I notice looking at that top pic is that there really isn't that much difference between them.
You clearly need a Nessmuk now!
If, like me you like the old school writings of outdoors men Doc, have you tried Kreps, very good.
http://www.alibris.co.uk/search/books/author/Kreps,%20Elmer%20Harry
I've not read Kreps, but I think I will now.
Thanks.
MartiniDave
16-10-2008, 12:30
As others have already said, great post Doc!
I too have quite a nice selection of knives, including the Micarta Woodlore which is really my favourite. But as you say in your text they are becoming harder to get hold of & for that reason mine tends to get used in the back yard and the shed a lot, but seldom very far from home. For the woods it tends to be one of the various Moras or my trusty Helle Eggen.
Dave
Great post for the litereary minded like myself!
Steve27752
16-10-2008, 12:37
A great topic it shows that knives are a personal choice.
forginhill
16-10-2008, 14:12
It's good to see that the "experts" have different opinions about knives. It opens the door for us to try different options and make up our own minds. Great post! Thanks.
Todd
Great post cheers,
I use a shing woodlore type of knife which is scandi ground, 4mm and high carbon. Its a lovely knife but as others have mentioned its heavy and hard work, not to mention keeping that scandi grind in shape :banghead: I have found that with a hatchet and a small opinel for carving and food prep i just dont use it as much :(
I think its time to try an enzo in D2 cheers for the info ;)
PS i guess the D2 enzo has a secondary bevel or micro bevel ?
Forest fella
16-10-2008, 18:41
I got a copy of WILDWOOD WISDOM afew months back,And I love it,great tips and advise,Would recomend it,
I prefer the Traditional MORA knife out of those 4
Fantastic post there Doc. Firstly - I agree totally with w00dsmoke's request for a review and comparison of tha authors. Even just seeing those books in the pictures has lengthend my ever growing shopping list of books.
I'm still scratching my head and scraping the pennies to buy a proper knife so this has been very helpful.
There's something about the shape of the woodlore style knife that really appeals. I've only recently used an Opinel #8 which I like but need something more serious. I'm not even sure it's the Mears connection that does it for me (though I admit - I hold Mears in high regard and as somewhat of an inspiration). The price kind of kills that idea though.
A couple of questions...
1> Olson's Puukko knife... I know he'll have used his pretty hard, but how would a stick tang knife like that hold up for heavy use in things like batoning?
I imagine the average (I assume Canadian) outdoorsman would turn to an axe long before batoning - but I wouldn't fancy getting a knife I like (and I like the look of that) and breaking it with something like that because I won't have an axe on me most of the time.
2> Also - any idea how thick that blade is?
3> What's the benefit of the partial edge on the back of the knife in the Marbles Expert?
4> Same question about batoning for that knife too.
5> As above, how thick is "fairly thin"?
All the knives you posted must be high quality to have such skilled people using them, but if I knew these things it would probably help me decide.
I need to stop reading threads like this - they always threaten to get expensive as my shopping list grows! Haha.
It's perhaps a bit of heresy to the knife aficionados, but I reckon it doesn't really matter too much which knife you choose so long as you avoid the cheap rubbish, double edged blades, huge Rambo blades, hollow handles and suchlike.
:D :You_Rock_ well i sort of consider myself a knife aficionado. :o i have long maintained that it doesn't matter what your knife looks like. it's not heresy to me, it's common sense.
a good knife needs to have four things. a user who can get it sharp, a user who can keep it sharp, a user who can do stuff with it, and a nice pointy point. so if anyone says that such and such a knife is a load of crepe. there is a 75% probability that it's due to pilot error!
cheers, and.
a good knife needs to have four things. a user who can get it sharp, a user who can keep it sharp, a user who can do stuff with it, and a nice pointy point. so if anyone says that such and such a knife is a load of crepe. there is a 75% probability that it's due to pilot error!
cheers, and.[/QUOTE]
couldn't agree more.
Adam.
oh and there's at least one more....
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/sargey/survival%20skills%2007/sargeyscoutsgloucester059.jpg
we ran a scout bushcraftcourse based on bushcraft heroes last year, sadly i didn't have quite the exact models of knives in a couple of cases. we were able to explain many of the whys and wherefores though.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/sargey/survival%20skills%2007/sargeyscoutsgloucester058.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/sargey/survival%20skills%2007/sargeyscoutsgloucester057.jpg
cheers, and.
I think Rutstrum would have gone for a crooked rather than a hook though...
More like this one in the center.
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/262/sbtcrookedspoon3490ef3.jpg
blackwolf1
17-10-2008, 14:02
Another book that is very good imo,is Cache Lake Country by John Rowlands.
It does talk some of knives and axes and such but it is so much more.I can't put it into words,if you like woodcraft check it out.
I notice with interest 80 % of the Experts listed choose a stick tang. (although not all shown correctly)
You reallly can baton with a stick tang they are not just some flimsy excuse for a knife. The Fulltang woodlore/clone is very recent in all this.
This just goes to show you do not need a fulltang woodlore/clone.
Sorry for late reply, been away.
The Marbles is certainly thinner than the Wilkinson woodlore (3.6mm). I'd guess it's the same as my Brusletto - about 2.8mm. Also the Marbles has a curved spine so it will not work with a firesteel. The false point I presume is for making that first skin puncture when skinning game.
Many of the old books do not mention batoning, on the assumption you have an ax or tomahawk for splitting wood. That said, I think the ability to baton wood is very important in the UK, where it is less usual to carry an ax.
It is interesting how the Woodlore is very thick bladed and is full tang. The weight penalty is significant so you have to ask why it is designed this way. The only reason I can think of is for batoning. It is indeed excellent at this.
That said, I agree with Brancho that stick tangs are plenty strong enough for batoning.
I wonder exactly which puukko Sig Olson carried. Originally I thought it may have been a Marttinni Lynx, which was first made before the war, IIRC. However, as he commented it had been made from an old file, I suspect it was a hand made one off. Minnessota had many folk from Sweden and Finland, and Scandinavian knives were no doubt often seen in that state.
He also had an 'IXL' trade knife which he found on a portage one day, but as far as I am aware he had this as a souvenir rather than a tool.
BorderReiver
20-10-2008, 10:30
What a cracking idea for a post.
I've never understood the conformity with knife types .
For me a knife choice is as personal as my choice in books or music.
Just because one knife suits one author does not mean it is the "right" choice for everyone.
Spot on.:)
There is the "right" knife for the job as well as for the person too.
Over the years I've found that the knife I bought with the expectation that it is The knife, falls down in some important respects. Great for some jobs but mediocre at best for others.
The Finns seem to have a range of knives available when out in the wild. The absolute minimum seems to be two.
Thanks for the reply there Doc.
I'll be getting myself a fancy knife or three some time in the (hopefully) not too distant future so that info will be useful.
I don't suppose it's the end of the world not being able to use the marbles on a firesteel... once could always (I assume) use the cutting edge (maybe have a part right next to the handle where you always use the steel) or just use another blade like my trusty Opinel 8.
No expert and a newbie here but I thought I would jump in.
I seem to collect knives like a rat collects fleas.I think I have tried all the flash knives that
are in my budget range( small).
But the two I have with me for everything hunting,camping or just out and about are these two.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/jonWR/Nessmuk.jpg
This was made by a friend of mine.A classic Nessmuk.
and the faithful Helle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/jonWR/SANY0644.jpg
Mind you I have this one on order but it could go out as a Christmas prezzie if I am not too taken with it.
http://www.blindhorseknives.com/BHK-Bushcrafter.htm
Stay warm in the woods
Jon R.
robin wood
02-12-2008, 08:27
This post was a great idea and well done, nice to see the Nessie added. I particularly like the look of the Marbles and a quick scan of the Bay shows that type of knife is very good value too.
Diamond Dave
02-12-2008, 15:30
That is an excellent thread educational and interesting. Thanks very much....
bushtuckerman
02-12-2008, 18:57
Doc, what are the thicknesses of the blades in your OP? I recently bought a 3mm Puuko and it came with a very broad bevel, making the edge very slender. I am interested in how it compares, especially to the Olson blade.
What about the Bear Grylls knife/book combo ?
......I'll just go and get my coat.
Minotaur
03-12-2008, 13:13
What a cracking idea for a post.
I've never understood the conformity with knife types .
For me a knife choice is as personal as my choice in books or music.
Just because one knife suits one author does not mean it is the "right" choice for everyone.
There is the "right" knife for the job as well as for the person too.
Yeah, agree with both of you.
I find a wooden Mora handle way too small, but the blade is right for the job.
I do think it is what works for you, not just what just what someone guides you to use.
This should be a sticky! Really good idea.
At least Two missing though. Nessmuk, and Lofty Wiseman spring to mind.
What about the Bear Grylls knife/book combo ?
......I'll just go and get my coat.
You like to live in interesting times my friend.
Could not help but join in, what about the Tom Brown Tracker?