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Why are so many people interested in buying the latest, bestest, Guru endorsed equipment, when there is such satisfaction in making your own. Searches of the internet gives good advice and designs for most camping equipment. The photon stove of Martyns is an excellent example. There are designs for tents, tarps and rucksacks of a modern design and materials as well as stoves, woodstoves and hobostoves.
More interesting to me are the old fashioned country/ bushcraft /backwoods/mountain man /Indian designs techniques and materials. Buckskin clothes, blanket coats/capes/cloaks calico (muslin) shirts. English country smocks with smocking (not military). Wooden homemade pack frames, simple blanket packs, blanket rolls to carry gear, Roycroft pack frames.
The use of rain proof garments is a modern idea
. learn to live with a little dampness or in a Bushcraft context sit in your shelter until the rain is past or build up your fire and dry off as the rain falls, make a small shelter and carve a non-spoon. Surely the bushcraft skills are about self reliance, doing things yourself rather than relying on the technical/industrial society.
TheViking
04-10-2004, 17:37
Why are so many people interested in buying the latest, bestest, Guru endorsed equipment, when there is such satisfaction in making your own. Searches of the internet gives good advice and designs for most camping equipment. The photon stove of Martyns is an excellent example. There are designs for tents, tarps and rucksacks of a modern design and materials as well as stoves, woodstoves and hobostoves.
More interesting to me are the old fashioned country/ bushcraft /backwoods/mountain man /Indian designs techniques and materials. Buckskin clothes, blanket coats/capes/cloaks calico (muslin) shirts. English country smocks with smocking (not military). Wooden homemade pack frames, simple blanket packs, blanket rolls to carry gear, Roycroft pack frames.
I couldn't agree more. :biggthump Instead of buying all the gear, make it. Instead of buying a rucksack cover I use a garbage bag and it hasn't broke yet! :shock: And it definately keeps out the rain + camouflage. :pack: (I write this because there is a thread going on this right now)
Tantalus
04-10-2004, 18:11
I gotta agree and disagree with you KIMBOKO
Guru endorsed equipment is no substitute for common sense and experience, on that score i totally agree
And with the satisfaction of making something from readily available materials
It saddens me to see country skills dying out as we become a nation of "softies"
But the flipside of this is that we live longer than our predecessors, due to technology allowing us to keep ourselves in a comfortable environment and advances in medical care
Waiting till the rain has passed could leave me indoors until next march in a lot of places in scotland
Rain proof garments are preferable to the crippling arthritis and rheumatism that plagued many who worked out of doors before.
Just as a firesteel or lighter are easier to use than a firedrill
Tant
tenbears10
04-10-2004, 19:17
Good idea and I think most of us try to make stuff if we can (look at shelters,pot holders etc). The problem is some poeple are much better at making stuff than others (have a look at neil1's rucksack in the gallery as a good example). I would love to produce my own leather and make clothes and boots but without the resources, time and skill I will have to buy a decent pair of boots. I think you have to weigh up the time and effort along with the end result. I will try making all kinds of stuff and some will be good and some rubbish :wink:
If you think back to the time when the suff you mention was made people often only became skilled in a few crafts and traded for other things they needed. Modern society just trades in a different way.
It is quite wrong to have 'all the gear and no idea' but when you do have some idea it is nice to have a few things that make life eaiser.
Bill
Bill, good saying mate,
All the gear and no idea! :You_Rock_
I like the idea of going into the wilds with nothing but my knife but I have to say common sense says I dress correctly and carry minimum emergency gear at the least.
Although I am sure my minimum and someone more experienced would be a little different.
Squidders
04-10-2004, 22:48
I am in 100% agreement and in many years time when I have the appropriate skills I will be fabricating all of my equipment and walking the few hundred mile round trip to the nearest wilderness area instead of driving :-)
Sorry about the snide answer, I genuinely do agree.
The problem is that in my life, bushcraft (and climbing, girlfriend, computing, sleeping etc etc etc...) time is at a premium and regardless of my level of interest and enthusiasm, I, like most others have different motivating factors.
I do appreciate the skills, talents, benefits and rewards of doing things the old way but it's very easy to say that when I don't have to live like that my entire life. I am glad for the technology and luxury items because they enable me to enjoy the aspects of bushcraft I want to.
For me to make a back pack would probably involve lots of effort and money on equipment to make the back pack (admittedly I could then use these tools and skills on making other things) when for me, I just need something comfy that will carry my climbing stuff, my sleeping stuff, food, drink and clothes for myself and my girlfriend. Buying one gives me this quickly and with a warranty so I can then go and enjoy the wilderness the way I want.
If someone wanted to climb with me and they said to use the rope, harness and climbing rack they made themselves I would tell them to get their head examined and in the wrong situation the equipment we have could be just as life-saving.
Sorry for the epic post... I have no idea why I was compelled to write so much :?:
In summary :You_Rock_
Joe
Yeh, but there's no rush - we've got the rest of our lives to enjoy bushcrafting!
There's nothing to say that you shouldn't get enough gear to safely enjoy bushcrafting in a range of conditions, then as time, interest and aptitude allow, add and replace items of gear with custom (self)made, fit-for-you gear
Bushcraft (to me) speaks of a thrifty, economic use of resources and is sympathetic to self-sufficiency (though not in a Felicity Kendall way!!)
tenbears10
05-10-2004, 09:38
Bushcraft (to me) speaks of a thrifty, economic use of resources and is sympathetic to self-sufficiency (though not in a Felicity Kendall way!!)
Felicity Kendall on your bushcrafting trip now there IS an idea :wink:
Bill
I dont take the veiw that to enjoy bushcraft you have to remove yourself utterly from modern equipment. (though this can be fun)
For me bushcraft allows me to make more efficent use of the equipment I have and enables me to be more self serficiant should any of my equipment become lost or damaged.
whilst i carry a cooker and hammock I know that should they become inoprative I can make fire and build a shelter without missing a step
my modern equipment make my life easier and allows me to get more done in a day, but if it fails no big deal.
Bushcraft also allows me to travel with the minimum amount of equipment if i wish, I often travel without a cooker or food stuffs other than carbohydrates confident that i can quickly make fire and catch my own food.
we often look at native peoples who practice bushcraft as a way of life and say "they dont spend hours discussing kit"........ nonsense, they spend as much time disscussing tools and equipment as we do.
the only difference is that they dont have access to the type of equipment that we do, but if they did they would not hesitate to use it, they would however know how to do without it.
bushcraft for me is blending ancient knowleadge with moden equipment that knowleadge provides you with the ability to get along fine should your equiment fail and prevents you from being depended on it.
jamesdevine
05-10-2004, 10:20
Well put Stuart. :biggthump
James
Like most people, I do have quite a few gadgets, but I'm trying to reduce the amount of kit I carry.
As Gary, and others, has pointed out a number of times, you can fabricate a lot of 'gadgets' in the wild - fire cranes, pot hooks, spoons, so we don't really need to buy those Titanium Ultra-lite FireCrane 2000SUX units.
As for making otehr kit rather than buying it, I for one am absolutely crap with a sewing machine, so unless I persuade someone to make a tent/rucksak/sleeping bag for me (any offers guys and girls? :wink: , I have no option but to purchase from stores/magazines/catalogues.
But I totally that we do seem, as a nation, to be brainwashed by TV celebs and glossy ads to buy stuff that we could either make perfectly acceptable and cheaper (and probably better) versions of ourselves, or that we don't actually need.
Good post KIMBOKO.:You_Rock_ :You_Rock_ :You_Rock_
Felicity Kendall on your bushcrafting trip now there IS an idea :wink:
Bill
Maybe 20 years ago...
we often look at native peoples who practice bushcraft as a way of life and say "they dont spend hours discussing kit"........ nonsense, they spend as much time disscussing tools and equipment as we do.
Yeah, just look how much interest the Hadza people showed in the bow Ray brought over as a gift - they were all queueing up to have a go!
It's just human nature, for some people, the gear is an integral part of their enjoyment of their hobby e.g. climbing, birdwatching and also bushcraft. On most forums, it is usually the gear/kit sections that get most hits! I think this is ok as long as the kit aspect doesn't become the over-riding concern. I'm sure stoneage man/woman was thrilled when they got a new axe head - now we have the luxury of being able to buy our tools from those with the resources/skills that we don't have.
Bushcraft ot gearcraft?
When native people discuss kit and how to improve it, the y do it becausethey need it to survive not because itīs fun to discuss it. There is story of man that had lived in the wilderness all his life, but when he came to the modern world all he was impressed of was "glue".
Making your own kit is not so hard as some people make it, a rucksack frame for example. 3 sticks, some cord and a pair of socks, thats all you need to make a rucksack frame, not the best frame but it will work.
If people want to buy or make theit kit thatīs up to them, the most important thing is that they enjoy what they are doing out there and understand how beatiful our nature is, or as some one said "Itīs so quiet here..."
You sure hit the nail on the head there Viking! :notworthy
'the most important thing is that they enjoy what they are doing out there and understand how beatiful our nature is, or as some one said "Itīs so quiet here..."'
Absolutely!
Squidders
05-10-2004, 12:23
Viking, I agree completely... :biggthump
I want to spend my bushcraft time thinking about where I am and what I'm doing... not wether my home made kit will fail me because i'm less than proficiant at making it. Sure I could bodge something up as you rightly suggested but I spend only "town time" buying and checking kit out.
Socks?!
yeh!!, you will need to keep your feet warm while making it,
its damn cold up there :chill: :lol: :lol:
Bushcraft ot gearcraft?
When native people discuss kit and how to improve it, the y do it becausethey need it to survive not because itīs fun to discuss it.
I'm sure they also get enjoyment out of a new tool in their own way as boaty pointed out e.g. the Hadza and the new bow.
Tenbears. If you think in terms of boots I don’t think you will every make them . What about starting in the towards that goal with either making moccasins… buying the leather, mark out, cut, only two seams to sew. Or do something towards making leather, ask around for the supplier of venison and ask them if you can have a skin. Or cut the skin off a piece of pork scrape it, dry it and you have made rawhide. Just take a small step towards making your own. Take a step or perhaps you should consider using sandals or no shoes at all. Nobody started out as a skilled crafts person everyone has to learn.
Don’t close you mind to your own abilities.
Tantalus. If your work is outdoors it is a different matter depending on the type of work. What has to be done in a given time period has to be done. I work in an office, bushcraft to me is a part time pleasure and I am only talking about bushcraft. The pleasure to me is in doing things for myself and testing my attitudes to the things that happen.
When I am outside and it rains I can either continue doing what I am doing and get wet or put on a fully waterproof non breathable jacket and get damp or find some shelter and do something else these are options for me these are options for everyone. Usually I put up an umbrella. Please be aware that you have a choice you don’t need a fully breathable jacket and it doesn’t rain all the time in Scotland. I don’t spend enough time outside to be worried about arthritis just yet.
The gas hob in my camper is easier to cook with than a flint and steel to light a fire!.
Squidders. You are right when you go climbing its not a Bushcraft activity your focus is on the climbing not the Bushcraft and you need the correct equipment as your life depends on it.
Please just consider that when you have the time for Bushcraft that perhaps you consider making something rather than buying it. The time to develop skills is now.
Jakunen. You do have an option. You can say "I'm no good with a sewing machine" or you can learn to sew. Its one of the least desirable Bushcraft attributes along with basket making but one of the most useful.
Familne. I agree.
Viking. The three stick pack frame ….YES.
You may think that Native peoples are trying to survive but I don’t think they would agree with you. They just love talking, as much as we do.
I do not carry out bushcraft activity 24/7 I go out for weekends and holidays. When I am on a bushcraft activity I imagine that I am living in a long term situation. I ask myself what will I do when the nylon on my tent has disintegrated, the pile on my jacket is totally threadbare, the soles of my sandals have left the uppers. The questions are raised when I am out and I try to resolve them whilst at home so at the moment I am have various projects on going, trying to make sandals from car tyres I can’t think they will wear out quickly.
There is the rawhide waiting to be made into buckskin.
Last night I made a bamboo cane bow thanks to this forum.
I made an arrow similar in form to the one Ray Mears made in first of the current series. I had started that on holiday in the summer by abrading a piece of bone I found on the beach I had collected the hazel wands locally in the spring.
In the short term I usually end up making or buying something that I think I require and then trying to obtain the skill to replace it.
I have thoughts on making a capote from blankets from charity shops thin ones for animal use are usually only a pound and some wool for sewing together and perhaps tape for the edges is not going to break the bank.
I have a bundle of canes ready to make up an Indian bed.
I Bushcraft in odd moments.
It was only this year that I resolved for myself the problem of keeping warm at night without a sleeping bag thanks to Tom Browns books and the debris shelter. I'm always learning.
I sound like pompous git and I probably am.
Where’s Felicity Kendal?
Tantalus
05-10-2004, 13:57
no worries KIMBOKO, all good points imho
and thanks for kicking off a really interesting thread :-)
Tant
tenbears10
05-10-2004, 14:13
Well said Kimboko I think you raised a valid point and I have got much more satisfaction from things I have made or learnt to do for myself than from bought stuff but I do still enjoy gadgets (he says listening to his new 20gb ipod) and that doesn't make me any less bushcrafty.
The process of replacing your bought things with homemade makes a lot of sense.
Bill
Well said Kimboko I think you raised a valid point and I have got much more satisfaction from things I have made or learnt to do for myself than from bought stuff but I do still enjoy gadgets (he says listening to his new 20gb ipod) and that doesn't make me any less bushcrafty.
Bill
on a lighter note, does the ipod come in camo or olive? :wink: :lol:
tenbears10
05-10-2004, 14:53
on a lighter note, does the ipod come in camo or olive? :wink: :lol:
I wasn't trying to be heavy sorry if it came over that way. As for the pod, no polished metal and white plastic so not very bushcraft at all. I am trying to get some bushcraft e-books on it though so we will see there's hope for it yet.
Bill
one Camo Ipod (http://one40fivestore.com/store2.php?style=gravis_gpod&type=7&category=91&list=0&brand=96), to suit your bushcraft needs ;)
tenbears10
05-10-2004, 15:14
Nice one Tom I nearly bought one of those last week. Pretty good value compared to other cases. Anyway this is going way off topic sorry.
Bill
yeh or you could buy a Dunhill one for Ģ170 :yikes: (or a second ipod)
Socks?!
For the shoulder straps
[QUOTE=KIMBOKO]Jakunen. You do have an option. You can say "I'm no good with a sewing machine" or you can learn to sew. Its one of the least desirable Bushcraft attributes along with basket making but one of the most useful./QUOTE]
I can sew, by hand, but just can't seem to work modern electric sewing machines. And my female relatives have given up trying to teach me.
I just accept that's its not one of my skills. I have plenty of other skills - I can cook, make jewellery, do carpentry, etc., so I don't let it get me down, I just accept it and buy what I cannot easily make. OK I could sit down for about 100hrs and hand stich a bergen, but I do have other things I'd rather do, like get out and see what Gaea has for me to see today.:wink:
... we don't really need to buy those Titanium Ultra-lite FireCrane 2000SUX units.
but it was only half price. Do you think I should return it?
:-P
Carcajou Garou
06-10-2004, 00:52
Something to realize that in "primitive societies" there were specialist who excelled at a certain craft. Trade between "tribal members was a way to strenghthen ties in a tribe or among other tribes. Certain functions were reserved for a specific gender to enhance the family unit. In our people a man or woman is not complete without an opposite mate to skill compliment each other. If every body went each their own way it wouldn't survive long as a tribe. The knowledge of making your own kit is important, the knowledge of its use is crucial. When "primitive peoples" are exposed to better ways they tend to adopt them fast if they are an advantage, disregard them equaly fast if they are less helpfull. Example copper pots cook better than bark containers :wink: Modern more efficient tools and equipements are not cheating they are evolution, just remember the roots to them and yourself. Don't get hung up on what is the absolute best as it will be improved on in some way at sometime, just get good with what you got. Carry your kit with you and you will never be in dire need even if outlook is bleak, do your best with what you brought.
just a thought
Viking
Socks for shoulder straps!
How big are your feet? :yikes:
Its not the size of foot that counts. If you use the old fashioned knee lenght socks, they are long enough to act as shoulder straps.
I've had to use them myself, (good old cadet force issue packs) and they are fairly comfortable so long as the pack isn't too heavy...
Its not the size of foot that counts. If you use the old fashioned knee lenght socks, they are long enough to act as shoulder straps.
Exactly :biggthump
I wasn't being serious about foot size!
You werren't?! :smiley-fa
And I thought these forums were designed solely for the intellectual cut and thrust of debate and the serious discussion of bushcraft and its associated issues!:?:
:nana:
Metala Cabinet
07-10-2004, 11:54
If they are then I'm out of here