View Full Version : Why isn't Ron Hood given enough Credit?
Forest fella
31-08-2008, 13:59
Hi,I just thought I would ask all you Outdoors people,why is it that Ron Hood and Karen Hood for that matter ar'nt given alot more Credit and applause for there work in Bushcraft and Survival,Seems to me alot of us, me included have learnt a fair bit on the Subject from them, Afew Bushcraft/Survival dvds and the like seem to have para-phrased alot of his work in the past 2 years or more.
Just thought I'd Ask
:lurk:
I should stay out of this one, very interested in the replies though.
:lurk:
Forest fella
31-08-2008, 14:26
Yeah I know what you mean,But I Genuinely, in my humble opinion think he should be recognized abit more,I have spent many hours learning whilst watching his dvds,And I can't be the only one in the UK to do so.
I've seen some of his stuff and think he is a great presenter of his knowledge. He's got an easy going, light hearted attitude and style to his presenting and his information is quite good. His wife is pretty hot too! I really liked the way she gutted some trout in one of the DVD's even if I thought she was gonna cut a thumb off any moment. I've seen the one where they are up the mountains and making a bed from p[ine needles and bin bags. I think the reason he isn't discussed here too much, apart from the differences in terrain, is that he is survival based knowledge.
I had to ask Uncle Google who Ron Hood is.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Hood
I am still none the wiser...
korvin karbon
31-08-2008, 15:08
dang nabbit. I was going to post about him. I have watched the first 5 volumes of his, and very impressed. Good information and down to earth. Especially enjoyed the trapping one.
The production of the DVD's is not amazing but the information is given across clearly. If some money was invested into the prodcution side, ie producer, camera/sound/lighting op then i think he would be onto a vey lucrative venture.
I think he does OK to be fair. Another husband and wife team, UK based, aren't quite as good IMO. And they seem to have ripped off a lot of Rons' work as well and tried to pass it off as their own. No names, no pack drill, but those who've been here long enough probably know who I am on about. It's a shame as they could have done well for themselves without remaking stuff they'd watched on a Ron Hood DVD. I suppose they've done alright anyway though.
Forest fella
31-08-2008, 16:47
I'm Glad to see that others have picked up on the use of Ron's work by newer Bushcrafters or Makers of Bushcraft things, I don't see why they couldn't say I learn't this from ''whoever'' as tobe fair you don't see alot of stuff that hasn't been done before.
Credit where it's due I say and Yeah his wife is well nice and into knives hopefully not 1 of a kind.
I believe they have a huge following in the States. Same as Tom Brown. Maybe they don't think UK is necessary.
mick miller
31-08-2008, 17:34
It certainly seems that way, there is no easy way to buy their DVD's over here and certainly they don't seem that interested in the wider audience, this may be in part due to the fact that quite a bit of the information is region specific (although the techniques have broader applications) and perhaps because much of the UK audience would squirm at some of the food preparation/ trapping footage - it's not quite as sanitized as RM would present for instance.
I watched pretty much all the DVD's so far and I have to say there are some real gems of info in amongst the footage, from the traditional preparation of pemmican through to simple but efficient ways to navigate around the wilds. I'd love to see him promoted more this side of the pond.
As Spamel mentioned, his approach is casual, relaxed and delivered with humour. His wife is also sehr hot and as my brother referred to her, very game ( I think he means she gets stuck in!). On the whole though it is more a 'survivalist' approach than 'bushcraft', there's a lot of tinfoil used, plastic bags and the like rather than relying on natural materials, but IMHO the good points outweigh the bad (you can often substitute natural or more reusable materials for the placky bags etc.).
The URL to read more about Ron & Karen Hood is: http://www.survival.com
korvin karbon
31-08-2008, 17:36
http://www.topsknives.com/product_info.php?cPath=7&products_id=223
one of his creations. Rather expensive and the maker has some well ermm, things that they call axes.
NB. topsknives is not a ron hood company.
You see, whatever he does survival video wise is always gonna get ridiculed when he creates a "tool" like that! Anyway, as I said before, it's worth checking out as some of the info is quite relevant to us.
mick miller
31-08-2008, 17:41
I was trying not to mention the ATAX, for the obvious reasons.
Not being fascetious, but who? :dunno:
cheers,
Toddy
Mesquite
31-08-2008, 18:00
Not being fascetious, but who? :dunno:
cheers,
Toddy
LOL, You're not the only one who hasn't any idea who they are.
korvin karbon
31-08-2008, 18:04
www.survival.com is his website. All i can say is watch one of his videos. Nowhere near as plished as ray mears, as the film crew is his wife and thats it, but the info is good and he demonstrates what he talks about.
Wait a minute, this is the American version of Bear isn't it ? The Dr, but not, guy?
cheers,
Toddy
I wouldn't go so far as that, this guy doesn't run around eating possum sphincters! He is primarily survival orientated though, but he's not a twit if that's what you mean!
mick miller
31-08-2008, 18:21
Not really the 'gung-ho lets go battle nature' approach of Bear and roughly 1/1000th of the production budget but I do know what you mean, there's still some really useful tips to be had though and I found I grew to like the informal way in which they present it. It helped me overlook the very occasional cringe worthy moments.
Forest fella
31-08-2008, 18:42
I totally agree that alot of the skills he shows are region specific,but as with most Bushcraft skills they are portable and applicable to anywhere,And whether or not you wanted to use these skills for real,or just wanted to watch an enjoyable program on Survival & Bushcraft, if you learn them you have them if you ever needed them.
Good to hear your comments
thanks
korvin karbon
31-08-2008, 19:24
:lurk:
I should stay out of this one, very interested in the replies though.
:lurk:
what if you were politely invited to share your views LOL.
Forest fella
31-08-2008, 19:53
well I don't work for them or sell there products,And I did assume on a Bushcraft site readers could handle a discussion,But point taken I will end my endorsement
well I don't work for them or sell there products,And I did assume on a Bushcraft site readers could handle a discussion,But point taken I will end my endorsement
You've lost me there. Has somebody told you off by PM?
Forest fella
31-08-2008, 20:02
No probs ,I have been a tad pro Mr Hood,I just wanted to know if anyone else has shared my viewing enjoyment,And I'm glad to see some of you have.and some haven't heard of him,which is a shame I think.What with everyone being on the net.And seemingly interested in the same things as myself,I'd thought I would share it with you.
And I see that I have done that in spades.
crazydave
31-08-2008, 20:44
a lot of it is marketing and the rest is prejudice. because they are american they market themselves as survival not bushcraft instructors just like mors and doug ritter. the americans quite rightly do not understand what this bushgcraft stuff is all about as its all exactly the same so its like coke and pepsi. as such they are considered to be to aggressive by those of smaller minds and less worldly knowledge because they think a bushcraft knife is pointless purchase when a swiss army knife will do. the kind who complain that last of the summer wine isn't very bushcrafty when there's nothing else to complain about.
the hoods woods dvd's, website and the forum are informative, friendly and not survivalist.
bushcraft is a uk thing inspired by a new zealand expression with a few from other countries thrown in. interestingly watching rm's repeats the other day he says he has studied 'bush skills' most of his adult life. I also think he enjoyed the survival based series more as there is greater scope for usable material which is why the bushcraft series has died away for lack of useable material and we wont see a second series in the same vein. we might get a vanishing world series after the book but I doubt it. mainstream tv has got bored with it unless a reality tv format can me made with a survival idol show and accompanying series.
like all survival/bushcraft/whatever shows/dvds they do get boring after a while as no-one has cracked the secret of not sounding like an open university lecturer after 5 mins which is why regular tv cuts away so much to scenery and stories or we get a bear grylls type of show with lots of pointless action. except maybe for myke hawke who is what bear grylls should have been before he got jk rowling to write his cv for him. Interestingly enough he has a manual coming out 2009 and going by the clips on you tube for the science of survival series on discovery you learn more in a 5 min clip than a whole episode of rm or bg once the dross has been removed.
just my opinion which should keep everyone busy typing ripostes, if nothing else it stops the site stagnating - :)
Type in Ron Hood survival on youtube and theres afew of his videos on there!
Dan
what if you were politely invited to share your views LOL.
Do I have to be polite? :eek:
I have seen at least a dozen DVDs of Ron Hood and his lovely wife teaching SURVIVAL skills. They are just that - survival. They don't pretend to be anything else.
Survival when you are lost, injured or searching for someone in those conditions in the wild is not sanitary, pretty, exciting nor entertaining. It is survival, plain and simple.
It is not the same as spending a lovely evening in the park with all your kit and the car only meters away and help as close as a phone call if you run out of Grey Poupon.
Here in the States there are still vast areas of wilderness. People go hunting, camping, backpacking, exploring and many other activities in these wild places. Sometimes they get lost or injured. Sometimes we have to go find them. Sometimes we find a corpse.
Having the knowledge, skills, resources and tools to get back home alive makes life better for everyone concerned.
Ron and Karen do a good job of telling it like it is, no fluff and no illusions of grandeur.
And I think that flaky tool is weird too, don't know why he endorsed it except maybe for the money.
CrazyDave makes a good point that I missed first time round.
Survival to us is the same as your Bushcraft.
Then there are Survivalists, which is a totally different thing all together. Nut jobs really. Not at all in the mainstream here or anywhere else that i know.
crazydave
01-09-2008, 06:02
one thing I have noticed while reading the miriad US survival forums over the years is that if you took out all the british members you would have a sizeable uk forum but it probably wouldn't be a quarter as interesting as there's nothing really to do here and even survival wise you only really have to stay alive for three or four days. thats probably got more to do with the evolution of bushcraft (or dumbed down survival) as most dont see why they need to round off their skill set when they never lose their mobile phone signal and a gps is so much easier than learning to read a map. you only have to talk to the mountain rescue guys to realise that the general public have lost all common sense regards the outdoors and that watching a few hours of the woodsmaster basics could be usefull.
I think that as a country we havent needed a survival mentality for a couple of hundred years unlike the colonies where being eaten by the wildlife or local population was a distinct posibility. Thats probably why we have had to import skills from around the world and rebrand them so the bushcraft schools can run nomad courses without feeling quilty. For the most part the closest thing we have had to what are now bushcrafters for the past few hundred years were the tramps and didacois.
thats probably why we go abroad for knowledge and experience of things we lost before the industrial revolution.
if anyone is interested in proper survival skills to add to their bushcraft ones then the hoods woods forum is an excellent source of information we wouldn't normally consider over here but applied to most of norther europe. for the uk then there is only the trueways site holding its own as a survival forum but its very watered down and just like here it doesnt get as much traffic as it should do as people seem afraid to post questions incase they get slapped down for asking old questions or trade information to avoid clashing with someone else who thinks they know better and have a louder voice.
there are clips of ron hood on you tube if anyone is interested you cant mistake him in his purple coat and headscarf - considering the calls for a proper survival - sorry bushcraft series with content as opposed to stories then the work of ron and karen should be given more consideration I reckon :)
I like his stuff. It is interesting and informative and put in an easygoing light hearted way. He's passionate about what he does and just gets out there without all the media glamourising. He gets my vote :)
I've seen a couple of his videos, not too bad and better than many there just not easy to get hold of.
Cairodel
10-09-2008, 11:43
I've seen a couple of his videos, not too bad and better than many there just not easy to get hold of.
The DVD's are really good - if you have a credit card, delivery to UK is usually
around a week... I've found their service impeccable...
As for bushcraft knives, they are becoming more and more popular over there, and if
you check out the Hoodlums Forum, you will see a number of U.S. makers are getting
involved. While you're there, check out their on-line shop as well..
Interesting the distinction between "survival" and "survivalists"....
That could settle a few arguments we have around here.
one thing I have noticed while reading the miriad US survival forums over the years is that if you took out all the british members you would have a sizeable uk forum but it probably wouldn't be a quarter as interesting as there's nothing really to do here and even survival wise you only really have to stay alive for three or four days. thats probably got more to do with the evolution of bushcraft (or dumbed down survival) as most dont see why they need to round off their skill set when they never lose their mobile phone signal and a gps is so much easier than learning to read a map.
In the UK, you are right, there is nothing much between sitting cold, wet, miserable hungry, scared, on your own, for three day until you are rescued. Or sitting next to a nice warm fire with a brew and a dry place to sleep for three or four days whilst you are rescued. The first is survival the second is bushcraft, if you can’t tell the difference by now then there is no point being here, you may as well go join a survivalist forum. Just make sure that you wear something bright orange, so no one mistakes you for food and shoots you, or a government agent coming to spy.
In the UK, you are right, there is nothing much between sitting cold, wet, miserable hungry, scared, on your own, for three day until you are rescued. Or sitting next to a nice warm fire with a brew and a dry place to sleep for three or four days whilst you are rescued. The first is survival the second is bushcraft, if you can’t tell the difference by now then there is no point being here, you may as well go join a survivalist forum. Just make sure that you wear something bright orange, so no one mistakes you for food and shoots you, or a government agent coming to spy.
Actually the difference is living through the threat of danger or living with no threat of danger. That is the only difference between survival and bushcraft.
Actually the difference is living through the threat of danger or living with no threat of danger. That is the only difference between survival and bushcraft.
Not sure what you mean, let me get this right, You think that if a numpty is lost and spend three/four miserable days/nights lost in the middle of a wood or on the edge of a moor, with the threat death by hypothermia, and by more luck than judgement on his part he is rescued by others, wet, miserable and close to shuffling off this mortal coil, that is the panicle of survival.
However, if a person with half an idea of what to do, finds himself in the same situation, and using his brain, and experience , and only with what he can find about him, makes himself comfortable and is rescued having spent a few days in relative comfort (of his own making) that is someting you feel is of a lesser achievement.
The threat/danger is equally applied to both, however one persons actions removes himself from the danger and the others inaction increases it. The situation is identical, the danger is also identical, and how the danger is dealt with, is the measures the person. In a any situation, any fool can be miserable.
So in short are you saying...
If you are “sitting cold, wet, miserable hungry, scared, on your own, for three day until you are rescued.” Then you are in a survival situation even if it is one of you own making.
However, given the same identical circumstances, you manage to make the best of a bad job and spent the identical amount of time in the same situation but through your own skills/knowledge, you have an ok time, then that is just camping/bushcrafting.
Bushcrafting I guess is reducing the danger your are facing by skill and knowledge. Would survival be the opposite?
Not sure what you mean, let me get this right, You think that if a numpty is lost and spend three/four miserable days/nights lost in the middle of a wood or on the edge of a moor, with the threat death by hypothermia, and by more luck than judgement on his part he is rescued by others, wet, miserable and close to shuffling off this mortal coil, that is the panicle of survival.
However, if a person with half an idea of what to do, finds himself in the same situation, and using his brain, and experience , and only with what he can find about him, makes himself comfortable and is rescued having spent a few days in relative comfort (of his own making) that is someting you feel is of a lesser achievement.
The threat/danger is equally applied to both, however one persons actions removes himself from the danger and the others inaction increases it. The situation is identical, the danger is also identical, and how the danger is dealt with, is the measures the person. In a any situation, any fool can be miserable.
So in short are you saying...
If you are “sitting cold, wet, miserable hungry, scared, on your own, for three day until you are rescued.” Then you are in a survival situation even if it is one of you own making.
However, given the same identical circumstances, you manage to make the best of a bad job and spent the identical amount of time in the same situation but through your own skills/knowledge, you have an ok time, then that is just camping/bushcrafting.
Bushcrafting I guess is reducing the danger your are facing by skill and knowledge. Would survival be the opposite?
Not at all what I said.
Bushcrafting is practicing camping activities in a very safe environment where there will never be a threat of danger.
Survival is using those same activities, skills, tools, knowledge, or what ever to live in a place that has some danger or threat to life.
You are comparing a fool to an experienced camper. I am comparing the same person, a prepared camper in one situation verses another situation.
The only difference between survival and bushcraft is where it is done, not by who does it or how well.
You are trying to say bushcrafting is a special art that is elevated above survival, I am saying they are the same except for the lack of danger in your more controlled and much safer environment.
The idea of bushcraft is surely to make more of the natural world a safe environment through skill, preparedness and understanding.
Survival and bushcraft are, to me, the same thing. Different goals, different fashions, different people but similar skills, literature and forums:lmao:
Survivalism is another beast. In my opinion common sense, planning, self sufficency and preparation are important and good things. Sitting around with 2000 crates of ammo hoping for the end of the world is not.:240:
You are trying to say bushcrafting is a special art that is elevated above survival, I am saying they are the same except for the lack of danger in your more controlled and much safer environment.I'm not saying that it is a special art, I'm just saying IMHO that bushcraft is not some “dumbed down version of survival”.
Survival is mostly a situation; a person finds themselves in when they fail to prepare.
Bushcraft is keeping alive practices that were everyday skills that kept our forbears alive. Skills that could come in useful in the highly unlikely even you ever need them. I feel that by thinking of them as “survival skill” you are already preparing to fail, because you almost never get the chance to really practice survival skills
A question was asked on this board, about what method did people use to lit their camp fires, a few people used lighters, the reason given by some was they didn’t want to have to wait for a brew. To me, that defeats the whole point of practicing bushcraft. The more you practice the better you get at it.
I'm not saying that it is a special art, I'm just saying IMHO that bushcraft is not some “dumbed down version of survival”.
Survival is mostly a situation; a person finds themselves in when they fail to prepare.
Bushcraft is keeping alive practices that were everyday skills that kept our forbears alive. Skills that could come in useful in the highly unlikely even you ever need them. I feel that by thinking of them as “survival skill” you are already preparing to fail, because you almost never get the chance to really practice survival skills
A question was asked on this board, about what method did people use to lit their camp fires, a few people used lighters, the reason given by some was they didn’t want to have to wait for a brew. To me, that defeats the whole point of practicing bushcraft. The more you practice the better you get at it.
I never said it is dumbed down either, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you aren't trying to quote me as saying that. That is not my intention.
Survival is a situation you may find yourself in whether you prepare or not. Survival means living through a difficult or dangerous situation, nothing more nor less.
Learning and practicing primitive skills is a fruitless endeavor if you never put those skills to the test. My 10 year old camps out in our back yard, she knows if she gets uncomfortable she can, at any time, come into the house where it is warm and dry.
My 17 year old son just got back from a ten day canoe trip in Canada. If he had a problem he had to deal with it, no easy way out. He was prepared for almost any event and luckily nothing major happened. But the threat of danger was there and he had to depend on his skill, knowledge and experience to get him home safely.
So, it is the situation that makes the difference.
We practice the same skills you practice, we cook over a campfire started with flint and steel, we can forage for wild plants, kill wild game to eat, make wood crafts, twist rope from natural fibers, make shelter from natural materials and even brew a cup of tea. We may seldom use a lighter but we carry one in the bottom of our pack just in case.
The difference I see is that we do go to places that are not accessible by motor car, have no cell towers and are far enough from help that we do have to depend solely on our skills to see us through, it is not a game or historic study for us as it seems to be with you.
We don't go blindly into harms way as you seem to suggest. But we don't fear to go beyond the reaches of civilization either. Stepping outside your comfort zone is a test of your skills, sleeping in a park or some farmers pasture is not.
Again, I am not disparaging bushcraft, only your idea that it is someway superior to or different from survival. You see, I think they are the same, I have said that in every post.
If you can accept the fact that the skills you practice kept your ancestors alive, and you are proof that they did, then you should be able to accept that those skills are survival skills.
British Red
10-09-2008, 20:00
Tomayto or Tomarto. I'll stick to what Mors Kochanski calls it till someone who know more than him comes along to correct him. He seemed to pretty much coin the term "bushcraft" but when I was listening to him talk he used the term "survival" far more often.
If its good enough for him to use the terms interchangeably its good enough for me
Red
This is a semantics problem.
'Survival' here has connotations that don't appear to be apparant to an American mindset.
Survival is just that, barely existing. Not thriving, just getting by. As a situation it is one to get out of asap.
Bushcraft is chilling out in the natural world, thriving in it, enjoying being capable within that world.
The third word, "Surivalist" has even greater connotations here. It implies the adherance to an EOTWAWKI type of mindset. Generally those adherants appear skill poor but hoarding happy, and armed to the teeth besides............whch in itself is something of an anomally in our islands :rolleyes:
Now then, why is Ron Hood...............?
I reckon i's simply 'cos he has no relevance to most of us, we don't know much of him past the hype, we don't really do much of the 'survivalist' mindset stuff, and he's not on the list of people we think of to read or to have teach courses we aim to attend.
cheers,
Toddy
Thank you Toddy, I understand your (British) reasoning now.
Yes, we have a different interpretation over here. That seems to be the issue.
Semantics.
But I have to correct one thing, Ron Hood is not a "survivalist", he is a survival instructor.
Which to us over here would be the equivalent of your Mr. Mears over there.
Now that makes sense, and I think I see why the Hoodlums (yes/ no?) think of him the way they seem to, then.
cheers,
Toddy
We practice the same skills you practice, we cook over a campfire started with flint and steel, we can forage for wild plants, kill wild game to eat, make wood crafts, twist rope from natural fibers, make shelter from natural materials and even brew a cup of tea. We may seldom use a lighter but we carry one in the bottom of our pack just in case.
The difference I see is that we do go to places that are not accessible by motor car, have no cell towers and are far enough from help that we do have to depend solely on our skills to see us through, it is not a game or historic study for us as it seems to be with you. .I’m sorry but unless you do if for a living then it is no more or less a game than it is for us, and looking at your home state, there seems to be few places that are more than a day’s hike from some form of road or track way, it is not like it’s really in the middle of nowhere it is, if you get in to trouble your family will miss you, they the rangers come rescue you, just like the 7th
You drive your cars, you walk in, you camp, you walk out, and you drive home. The only difference I can see is you drive more and walk less.
First you say that we are only playing at being bushcrafters and then you say
Again, I am not disparaging bushcraft, you , it seems, are being disparaging.
If you can accept the fact that the skills you practice kept your ancestors alive, and you are proof that they did, then you should be able to accept that those skills are survival skills.
My ancestors didn’t just survive, they thrived, some of the less well mannered ones, were even exported to places like America, and Australia, two of my distant relations arrived in the Americas before the Mayflower.
Zoom out a bit Tadpole, America is a big place. Very few people stay in their home state all the time.
I had a friend from Scotland come to visit for a few days, while here he asked if we could drive over to see the Grand Canyon. I guess it looks a lot closer on the map.
I'm sorry that you take my comments in some way I did not intend, from now on I'll say we are "bushcrafters that thrive through adversity".
It is very difficult to explain something when we use the same words but have vastly different meanings. :)
dommyracer
10-09-2008, 22:52
I think the main issue here seems to be people's perception of what 'Bushcrafting' (I hate the word) actually is.
Bushcraft is the subject, I can't apply it as a verb because to my mind it is not something you do, it is something you use
I would be using my Bushcraft whether I was going for a walk in my local wood, going on a week solo trip to Scotland or as part of month expedition in the jungle.
To me, the concept of 'Bushcrafting' as being an activity that involves going to a wood, camping under a tarp and making a pothanger is a load of old rubbish.
The camping out and everything else are the mechanisms I use to be in a place where I can practice and improve my Bushcraft.
If I got lost or into trouble in a forest in the US, or the Siberian Taiga, then I would Survive by using Bushcraft.
Cairodel
10-09-2008, 23:27
I think the main issue here seems to be people's perception of what 'Bushcrafting' (I hate the word) actually is.
Bushcraft is the subject, I can't apply it as a verb because to my mind it is not something you do, it is something you use
If I got lost or into trouble in a forest in the US, or the Siberian Taiga, then I would Survive by using Bushcraft.
Here, Here..!!!!:headbang:
just like the 7th
You drive your cars, you walk in, you camp, you walk out, and you drive home. The only difference I can see is you drive more and walk less.
First you say that we are only playing at being bushcrafters and then you say... you , it seems, are being disparaging.
My ancestors didn’t just survive, they thrived, some of the less well mannered ones, were even exported to places like America, and Australia, two of my distant relations arrived in the Americas before the Mayflower.
Sorry, I'll try not to drag this out much further, just a few more comments.
Why would you think we drive more and walk less? I walk nearly 5 miles just cutting my lawn each week (takes about 4 hours). Sometimes when we go on the AT (2000 mile wilderness trail) we can walk for 20 miles or more without seeing a soul. Yes, as a general rule Americans drive more than Europeans. This is a very mobile society, people like to travel. But we walk too. If you mean just to go camping, you really have no concept of this place.
I am not disparaging of bushcraft, I am questioning your concept of bushcraft.
I like bushcraft, otherwise I wouldn't read and enjoy the words of others here, most of whom I greatly admire, respect and consider to be my friends. By the way, I was invited to join here, I didn't just drop in.
Some of my ancestors were here long before the Mayflower, you might say my ancestors helped yours survive their first years over here. And those of mine thrived in this environment until yours and some of mine as well came along.
I'm through with this now unless someone else has a serious question.
crazydave
11-09-2008, 04:40
In the UK, you are right, there is nothing much between sitting cold, wet, miserable hungry, scared, on your own, for three day until you are rescued. Or sitting next to a nice warm fire with a brew and a dry place to sleep for three or four days whilst you are rescued. The first is survival the second is bushcraft, if you can’t tell the difference by now then there is no point being here, you may as well go join a survivalist forum. Just make sure that you wear something bright orange, so no one mistakes you for food and shoots you, or a government agent coming to spy.
if you think that then you are as good as dead as its the same stupid rubbish arguament put across everytime this subject comes up online, once you get face time with someone its a totally different discussion. sitting in the cold prehyperthermic but still beating is surviving, lighting a fire and building a debris hut is survival, whittling a spoon while waiting for rescue is bushcraft. first you survive then you flourish if the flourish part has to be called bushcraft then so be it but telling people that only learning half the subject makes for a purer learning experience is dangerous as people are a lot dumber than we give them credit for. just ask the mountain rescue teams or coastguard.
proper bushcraft should be no different to survival as in a native format its the same thing. its only when western cultures get their hands on it they have to justify it as special. its like mac and pc which is best. who gives a monkeys if both do what you want them to.
when this topic comes up which it will allways do the answer is not to slag the poster off as usual as it just shows you up as feeble minded. if you consider bushcraft to be the next step up from survival then thats fine but dont forget the basics is whats some of us are saying as without them people can get themselves into a lot of trouble. you dont teach edible plants till you teach the safety tests. if bushcraft is supposed to be native and ancient skills brought back to life then why is there so much ventile and titanium involved?
this site carries the name but theres very little true bushcraft on here its just a huge umbrella for dying skills and crafts for that I heartily applaud it. as to survivalist sites well bushcraft can learn a lot from those too as a lot of the techniques are decended from the ones used by the mountain men and native indians.all the questions on here about foraging and food storage are not historical british subjects except for the few unless you get hold of the foraging guide printed in ww2 by the ministry of food. but that comes under renactment if you want to be purist about it ww2 did do wonders for british jam making though.
bushcraft is a marketing term invented by someone who is very good it and has the tv to back him up, the fact that he tried to stop this site proves it was a purely commercial interest, mors wasnt which is why people werent flocking to the woods 20 years ago and thats from the guy himself who admits to writing a survival book. its nothing new as by the current definintion its timeless. by practise though its just amalgamating things from around the world and using them to take the place of something we have no cultural history of unless you are a romany. now gypsycraft would be a very small forum indeed as last time I checked the average caravan doesnt get broadband. bushcraft books are a quarter the size of survival books for good reason - there's less information in them but the brand image makes them sell a few more copies - on ebay its just like adding sas to everything from underpants to toothpicks. all the kit sold and used is adapted from elsewhere and rebranded not allways for the best.
the scout association has it about right you start off learing survival skills then you come back to do bushcraft and then nomad. survival skills as a badge though is 30 odd years old the bushcraft bit was known as backwoods. all of it though was taught as standard and included in the handbooks as field craft.
one thing frequently pointed out is the hostility being so one sided possibly being an insecurity thing as the survival fraternity would rather everyone knew what they needed to know instead of what some people thought they should. the bcuk banner at the moot said 'camping in comfort' which is what it was, tents or hammocks and fires. socially it was great and I look forward to meeting some of them again. 90% of the participants looked just like every scout leader on camp I've seen for 30 years.
back to topic though - ron and karen hoods set out to make their niche and have done a damn good job of it - bushcrafters should watch them if they can as there's few good resources out there. in the same way survival types watch bushcraft videos to learn new tricks or refresh old ones as to them its the same and allways will be.
the best way to avoid 'conflict' is just to accept that there is no difference and if you have a survival manual on your bookshelf then you cant object can you? I've bought several different bushcraft books because the pretty pictures make it easier to teach kids or adults what they want to know. every good self proclaimed bushcrafter I've met has a good solid survival background which they bring forward into their bushcraft by being imaginative and economical. the bad ones are just kit junkies with serious skill deficits. fortunately most are willing to learn what they are lacking and generally the first step is to give them a few more books to read.
I've just been reading the syllabus from several different sites and the differences are semantic - survival course you learn shelters, tracking and trapping. the bushcraft course you learn how to construct a natural shelter, learn native tracking skills and aboriginal trapping techniques but you dont get a free tin to keep your fire kit in and it costs more :)
the commonest backlash I've noticed for military and survival types is 'they just dont get it' or 'they just wont let it go' let what go? common sense! - we do get it though. we get it and we see right through it, understanding it for what it is and making use of it accordingly as a resource like every other site out there.
if you dont like a healthy debate then dont join in, and certainly dont join in if you cant be objective - ask this on a survival site though and you will get probably get 'same thing really' as a reply :)
do not ask it on a military site though as you will be offended.;)
Don't know where to start on that Dave.
No one tried to stop this forum.
My previous response on semantics still stands.
Please don't stir trouble just to shove the holier than thou.......we prefer to chill out, y'know ?
Military mindset, different thing from a civilian one, and I suspect the military would really rather have a group aware of their own abilities, and limitations, but still perpared to learn, than a group of gungho wannnabees running through the calm of a British woodland armed to the teeth :rolleyes:
I think some of the members of some of the 'survival' forums are a bit tee'd off, this forum is busy, active, varied, and doesn't need to do the whole ,"I'm ready for everything' tedium ad nauseum of the most of the survival sites. We just don't feel the need for most of them, but their members come on here sometimes and have a rant about how inadequate bushcraft is compared to survival :rollleyes: :big yawn:
I really don't need to know how to survive a stingray or polar bear attack but by heavens how to get warm and dry when I've ploutered through mud to my knees for two miles 'cos I slipped in a burn and everything is sodden and I know it's going to pour and be a cold frosty night, is all to frequently awfully useful :o
Personally, I would prefer more of an emphasis on the 'craft' aspects of Bushcraft. Traditional, and innovative, uses of indigenous natural resources. But, I am well aware that people need the comfort level of feeling well equiped (and there're always the shiny new toys :D ) that means I accept the kit forums will be busy too..........besides, I've bought some good stuff using them as recommendations :rolleyes:
I still like the little adage
Survival = get the hell out asap
Bushcraft = chill the hell out asap.
Do folks think we can put this one to rest now ? Or does anyone else desperately feel the need to have their say ?
cheers,
Toddy
dommyracer
11-09-2008, 13:01
Do folks think we can put this one to rest now
If by this you mean lock the thread, please don't. If the discussion has reached it's natural course, it will drop down the board. No need to lock....
Or does anyone else desperately feel the need to have their say ?
cheers,
Toddy
No Toddy,
You have the last say.
No, I didn't meant to lock the thread, but I do think the never ending, ' bushcraft or survival', is detracting from the original question about Ron Hood.
Toddy
No Toddy,
You have the last say.
Really ? :D Well, that'll be the day :rolleyes:
Sorry, Scottish fascetism coming through there :o
Seriously, I'm supposed to try to help keep threads on topic.
The original question was,
"Why is Ron Hood not given more credit ?"
Can we return the thread to it's original intent please.
cheers,
Toddy
To get back on the original topic. In all honesty he just hasn't registered on my radar. There's little mention of him on this site and I just haven't come across him or his work elsewhere. Is HoodsWoods (?) to do with Ron Hood?
Regardless of Mr Hoods skills or his contribution to bushcraft/survival (or whatever, I don't really care) he hasn't written any books as far as I'm aware so I'm not likely to encounter his ouevre by chance in my local Waterstones and he does not regularly appear on any commonly seen UK TV channel. I had known about him before from idly googling but to assess his work I'd have to spend my hard earned money to buy DVDs sight unseen which may turn out to be total pants. At least with Mearsy I could watch the interminable repeats of his programmes effectively for free on Sky (I don't but that's a different issue). That's why Ron's contribution such as it is is 'undervalued' - I and most people here in the UK know very little about him and aren't likely to in the future either.
Forest fella
11-09-2008, 18:06
Well apart from the last page of comments about the differences of our chosen Hobbie I think we have figured out why he isn't as Highly regarded as other faces in the scene,If I'm right,most people have no idea who Ron Hood is,if so I feel that a great number of UK Outdoorsmen/Women are pretty blind to the wealth of knowledge out there,I think it's partly to do with the fact that we in the UK are blessed with seemingly many more Bushcraft/Survival courses,instructors,tv programs and the like.Personly I try to grab and soak up as much good information on my Hobby's as I can,no matter where the skills come from.
tom miller
11-09-2008, 18:48
I have seen most of his dvds and think they are well worth watching.
i like most of what i've seen of his stuff.
like all bushcraft or survival instructors, he has a couple of solutions that are more complicated than the problem.
It seems to me that with any information resource, be it book, video or website, you just have to learn to absorb what is useful. make very sure you understand the less useful stuff, 'cause it might just be that you're simply too thick to get it. :rolleyes: :lmao:
cheers, and.
crazydave
12-09-2008, 05:50
I read a thread the other day on a military forum where a bushcrafty type was asking whether a kukri would be any good for the jungle - the commonest answer was save the weight, carry a penknife and some secateurs. hardly the response of the warmongering savage. :)
I think there is lot of ignorance regards what a military mindset is even amongst those who bear no animosity, the last thing a soldier wants to do is actually fight as thats how his friends get killed. they train for something they hope never comes even though they do want to put it into practise at least once just to prove that they do it for real.
the same goes for what are classed as survival types, first aiders or even scout leaders.
If you dont understand something then dont decide its all bad and nasty. when a survival type asks why you dont think the basics are important its because he is worried about the implications of not having a rounded education and not about being holier than thou - you dont teach a child to read but not write do you? most people thinking first aid will carry some plasters, some paracetamol and maybe a bandage or two. as you get further training you tend to carry more because you change the way you think about injury from a personal to a group responsabilty. Survival is the same, I've seen some bad lessons over the years where the teacher has failed to teach some of the basics just because he was so familiar with the subject he forgot what other needed to learn and just taught what he wanted to teach. everyone should have the same basic skills as it makes it a lot easier to delegate when the time comes. how many here work in places where knowledge is considered power and not to be shared?
some of us have seen what happens when it does go wrong and from what I've seen over the past few years there is a serious general knowledge gap which fortunately due to the crappy overcrowded nature of this land shouldn't be a problem unless you happen to get caught out in a flood or powercut. perversely I picked up my copy of essential bushcraft today to see if there was a decent pic of a swamp bed for a lesson plan. on the front it says 'a handbook of survival skills from around the world' and thats from the word processor of the 'messiah' himself! So seeing as he himself regards bushcraft as a collection of survival skills then surely its the case that by improving your collection of survival skills you can become a better bushcrafter? You will probably never have to chase away a randy emperor penquin from your daughter in south georgia but you might need to know how to imobilise a broken leg or neck following a tumble down a hill, then rustle up a shelter using a few fertiliser bags before lighting a fire using the battery from an electric fence, a lip salve and some sheeps wool :)
As to the original topic - I do find it odd that we can ignore the americans as they practise survival so must be blood thirsty savages, but we venerate the canadians who are probably the only country to teach it at college level nationally. if you want a mors replacent for next years moot then why not ask one of his contemporys to come along as there's loads of em - Dr Gino Ferri comes highly recommended or even the local boy Mr Akkermans as he seens to be pretty good at primitive skills from what I've seen of him :)
Sorry, here we go, OT again :o
See, that's the kind of mindset I expect from the military; practical, get the job done. Unfortunately, the armed to the teeth wannabee type are all too common :rolleyes: Unless I'm camping, or deliberately after timber, I don't carry an axe, I do carry a pair of pruners :) (wonder how long before they're a proscribed tool :rolleyes: :sigh:)
I think it's horses for courses. I won't wander into the arctic in the depth of Winter, or the Jungle or Desert or Veld.........so an awful lot of the Survival stuff just does not compute. Techniques and 'primitive' technology are fascinating though. :cool:
We are the first Industrialised nation, arguably the first Post Industrialised one too, our bonds with our roots in our lands were severed early. I suspect that most of us are just trying to re-connect with those to enrich our lives, let us breathe.
atb,
M
Surely the difference between survival and bushcraft is as follows
survival is what you do when disaster strikes be it a plane crash,hurricaine ,tsunami and suchlike.
bushcraft is when you go to the outdoors fully prepared to have a good time and be comfortable.
I may be wrong ,I often am.
mick miller
12-09-2008, 10:59
I don't think so, it seems a very individual thing, for me the term bushcraft relates to the skills and knowledge necessary to live without many of the modern materials we all take for granted. For instance an example of bushcraft in my mind would be the use of leaves to protect cooking meat rather than tinfoil. Another would be wearing buckskin clothing sewn with sinew rather than a modern synthetic garment.
I found it interesting how this thread quickly lost track from 'Why isn't' to 'what is', perhaps it's because over the pond the term bushcraft isn't so commonly used, or perhaps it was partly influenced by the tone of the survival.com website but whichever it's worth keeping in mind that Ron and Karen are not so-called survivalists. Far from it.
Given the amount of useful material (much of which can be adapted or directly translated into our own environment) contained in the films and the casual, relaxed and irreverent way in which it is delivered I am surprised more isn't known about the Hood's over here or that their stuff isn't more popular. As I mentioned early on, there are a couple of moments that may cause you to wince or cringe, but that's it. The food preparation filming isn't for the faint hearted thats for sure!
Perhaps the ignorance around the Hood's is simply down to a lack of slick marketing and production? Ron and Karen film themselves with a simple camera set-up, no booms, dollies, trucks etc. no 20 man production team, maybe a couple of mates and the dogs is the best they get. As such it lacks the slickness of a high-budget production where you can essentially wrap a turd in so much fluff and smoke with crisp graphics and a great soundtrack (I can think of one 'celebrity' this country has birthed whose material fits this description, the surname rhymes with frills).
Simply put, it's not very attractive to a TV exec and therefore it becomes a little bit 'niche'. I have to say I only got one on a recommendation of a trusted friend so it's all word of mouth for the Hood's I guess? They really are worth watching though!
Well having read this thread and palpably felt the emotions it raised, I've been and looked at some of Mr hood's stuff that's on U tube and find very watchable and the information passed across in an informal and understandable style. Hopefully in the future I shall procure some of his DVDs and make my own assessment as to its relevance to my outlook on life.
Thank you to everyone who has commented on the subject matter, but I will make up my own mind as to its relevance.
Does it matter what it is called as long as we enjoy the practice and benefit from its lessons.
Andy
British Red
12-09-2008, 13:36
Sounds very sensible Andy - content over being stressed by the title every day. I'd be interested in a good review of one of the DVDs if you get one - I have often thought about getting one but without an ability to "preview" the content I have always had second thoughts. There are a goodly number too so I have never really known which one to get
If anyone has them a brief synopsis of the contents of each and a short review would be very welcome
Red
Fire Starter
12-09-2008, 14:39
Well done Dave, you are bang on with your description of bushcraft as it is now. It seems that most people that shout the loudest about what bushcraft is do not practice bushcraft but merely bushcamping with all the new kit and clothing that goes with. Putting up a tarp and hammock, cooking you salami in a zebra pot over a fire, drinking your stags breath from a wooden cup or titanium mug, making your stew in a Dutch oven etc, etc, etc, the millions of people outwith this forum would call this camping. It appears that the main skills on the forum are making up a knife from bits you buy or spoon carving. Even the the so called bushcraft schools at the Wilderness Gathering this year seemed to be lacking in any bushcraft skills apart from one or two, the others were more interested in selling new kit than educating the punters on bushcraft/survival skills. It seems that there are too many people on this forum who label what bushcraft is and what it isn't, all a bit odd when most them do not practice the subject in any depth whatsoever. Maybe a definition from people who teach and practice the subject of bushcraft on a daily basis would be better.
Even the the so called bushcraft schools at the Wilderness Gathering this year seemed to be lacking in any bushcraft skills apart from one or two,
Maybe a definition from people who teach and practice the subject of bushcraft on a daily basis would be better.
Contradiction?
I'm sorry that to you the Wilderness Gathering was a waste of Time and therefore money, I didn't go so I can't comment on the content and context of these courses.
However I don't think throwing petrol on an already burning fire helps.
Andy
I don't think a definition is needed at all. I'm certainly not interested in one. Then again, I've got a Ti mug and a Dutch Oven. :rolleyes:
Whatever "bushcrafting" is, it's most definitely different things for different people. It's not a science. There's no correct or incorrect definition. In my opinion.
I enjoy going out into the country, relaxing and being comfortable, chilling out and watching nature and wildlife. You can call it what you want. I reckon I do mainly "outdoor gourmet cuisine and camping". There's still a lot of stuff of interest to me on this site though, even though I wouldn't label myself "bushcrafter".
I'm not a "bushcrafter" so I don't care.....:nana:
To me it's just about being more comfortable outdoors than in.
Call it what the heck you like, but I will use traditional skills and equipment, modern skills and equipment, historical skills and equipment, survival skills and equipment and a good measure of common sense to achieve that objective.
I really don't see the point in this incessant arguing over four syllables in a language that changes daily.
I really can't see why people get so heated about definitions. From watching the bits of R Hood's videos on you tube, it seems to me that American "survival" = British "bushcraft".
Survivalists are a different kettle of fish.
What is important is the message, be it presented by R Mears or R Hood. A difference is that R Mears' programme are slickly professionally made, aimed at entertaining the wider audience, whereas R Hoods are "home made" teaching tools.
As an example, how to build a shelter, the best possible place to do it under the circumstances or the reasons why you're there in the first place: whether you fall in the "wilderness" through accident or walk there for the pleasure, you need a shelter because the cold could kill you, either way.
Same about about hypothermia : the necessary knowledge is the same.
I watched the few clips of their videos, and to me they try to impart the same info and skill that R Mears programs do.
So, I s'pose, he is not given that much credit for what he does over here, because he has not gained the same exposure through the media as R Mears has.
I wouldn't mind seeing some of his DVDs now.
Bernie Garland
12-09-2008, 18:44
Well said JoJo and Wayland.
Bernie
crazydave
13-09-2008, 05:10
Well done Dave, you are bang on with your description of bushcraft as it is now. It seems that most people that shout the loudest about what bushcraft is do not practice bushcraft but merely bushcamping with all the new kit and clothing that goes with. Putting up a tarp and hammock, cooking you salami in a zebra pot over a fire, drinking your stags breath from a wooden cup or titanium mug, making your stew in a Dutch oven etc, etc, etc, the millions of people outwith this forum would call this camping. It appears that the main skills on the forum are making up a knife from bits you buy or spoon carving. Even the the so called bushcraft schools at the Wilderness Gathering this year seemed to be lacking in any bushcraft skills apart from one or two, the others were more interested in selling new kit than educating the punters on bushcraft/survival skills. It seems that there are too many people on this forum who label what bushcraft is and what it isn't, all a bit odd when most them do not practice the subject in any depth whatsoever. Maybe a definition from people who teach and practice the subject of bushcraft on a daily basis would be better.
again I think it depends on what the person teaching defines as coming under the bushcraft umbrella or should that be tarp and also thier ability and knowledge. there are some hopeless 'schools' out there taking trade off the good ones and its that which concerns the few of us who are actually bothered about what is being taught. survival suffered a similar issue back in the 80's with every ex para on the block buying a landrover, opening a survival school and running courses most of which were rubbish and didn't last long.
if you can pick a copy up or find enough online to watch then look at ron hoods stuff for what it is then it is pretty good - I've only got the basics one and two. not sure if I'd get into trouble with the mods if I sent copies out. same goes for the hiddins stuff I've got.
on a similar vein whos that bloke with the dog doing home made dvd's on ebay, by rights he too should be worth a look for quantity if nothing else but I havent seen any clips anywhere.
on clips there's a really good half hour interview with les hiddins which I found - of course him being an ex army survival instructor might put a few off ;) I can only find the transcript
http://www.abc.net.au/talkingheads/txt/s2078574.htm
there's a matching video somewhere too
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=77662476527461 87491&q=bush+tucker+man&total=35&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
hi all,
this seems to go back to a thread I started when I first got here about the definition of bushcraft...
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12482
Karl...
on clips there's a really good half hour interview with les hiddins which I found - of course him being an ex army survival instructor might put a few off ;) ]
I may be wrong but I do not think Les was ever an "army survival instructor" in the sense that, for example, Woody is/was.
While making soldiers a bit more familiar comfortable with indigenous food resources enhances their survivability, his role was more to establish a survival doctrine and from the start built on indigenous knowledge.
Some time ago, I was told that Les, after talking to the SASR about bush tucker, politely (and wisely) declined their offer of participating on their survival course and presumably of becoming a survival instructor.
He had no need to prove anything.
Maj. Hiddins was employed by the ADF to catalogue natural foods found in the more inaccessable parts of Northern Australia, he was the one to gather all all the info for the military "Snack maps", he was an adjunct to the now defunct Army Survival Wing, based out of the School of Infantry in the 1980's and very early 90's, more info can be found here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Hiddins
At the moment all survival training is run by the RAAF and selected Regular army units, but there is no actual doctrine for the teaching or testing of it.
(except for the RAAF school as it is aimed at downed aircrew and actually has a test of objectives at the end, unfortunatly the Army courses don't as there is no recognition given for these courses in your service record in the Green Machine, they are seen as being a form of adventure training, not as a requirement for your job)
The current training offered to the SASR is run by civilian instructors from WA Police and other subject matter experts from the various Universities. The Military aspects of Combat Survival are run by in house instructors.
just my two cents...
Reading through this entire thread has been entertaining, however the question asked was why Ron Hood has not recieved more credit.
The answer is quite clear, to me at least, quite simply he is reasonably unknown, perhaps an unsung hero to some but to most, unheard of. I have never heard of him or his wife before reading this thread, therefore I for one would not credit him for any thing simply because of being unaware of his existance. What has been described of him here has, though, made me interested in finding out more and like BR would like to hear a proper review of his dvds before I would release some of my funds towards buying them. But definately the curiosity has been piqued!
John Fenna
13-09-2008, 12:40
Same for me!
demographic
13-09-2008, 13:56
Not being fascetious, but who? :dunno:
cheers,
Toddy
I don't feel so daft now that I know theres others thinking the same thing.
Never heard of em till I read this thread.
Humpback
13-09-2008, 17:18
I followed the link to get to his You tube clips and found them interesting and helpful so much so that I then spent some time searching sun compasses before returning here.
He would get more recognition in the UK if his dvds were more accessible; I too don't want to order from the US without some idea of the content. I shall get his primitive navigation dvd now though.
The guy with the dog is I believe http://www.birchtreeproductions.co.uk/default.asp and I have all his series and found them entertaining and useful and was able to see a clip before buying at Springfields in Burton.
If the dvds were available from a stockist here (hint hint) I'm sure we would have heard of him before now.
Thanks to the original poster for introducing him to me.
In conclusion, (sorry Toddy), I'm not sure whether I'm a bushcraft or a survival fan and frankly it doesn't matter, Ray's church is a broad one;) . But I am sure I'm not a survivalist.
Right, my sun compass should be glued now off to find true north.
Alan
No apologies needed, :) I do get vexed when (please see my definition of the semantics) Suvivalists insist on their voice being the only one that addresses every aspect of our activities and interests........there are hundreds of survival forums on the net, got to admit most are a big yawn..........why do they persist in trying to hassle this one :dunno: It surely can't be just the name.
I don't use the word bushcraft to describe what I do when talking to most folks.........and yes, I can make virtallly all my own kit, and frequently do, I am also incredibly fortunate in that I have a growing group of friends who also make, and are happy to barter :D :approve: I do get out lots, I generally forage daily too.............mostly because the perception of those who don't do it is of RM, and with the best will in the world, small cuddly middle aged female does not = RM :rolleyes: :o
And yet, notice how yet again an innocuous thread turns to Bushcraft/ survival/ Survivalist, and there's suddenly the need to restate our interpretation of the word and our chosen definitions of the differences on a British Bushcraft forum
I think on balance I'll stick to the bushcraft, and mention survival with a small s in the same breath when talking to Americans :)
Maybe it's the title........ ' more ' credit, :confused: we just don't know them so they haven't influenced us so they will get no credit.
Funny old world.
cheers,
Toddy
But, you know that nobody in the US ever heard of Ray Mears?
If I hadn't been invited to join here I would not have a clue as to who he is or what he does.
Still don't really, just second hand discussions of what you think of him.
I wouldn't know him if he sat next to me at the lunch counter.
Through this site I have grown to admire his work, he must be great to have such a loyal following. I wish I could see his TV shows, then maybe i could understand what all the hype is about. But, for now all I have to judge him by is the effect he has on the people here.
And that explains exactly how I feel about Ron Hood. I'm not putting "we" as I can't talk for anyone but myself. But that sums it up perfectly if you switch US for UK and RM for RH.
mostly because the perception of those who don't do it is of RM, and with the best will in the world, small cuddly middle aged female does not = RM :rolleyes: :o
Aw c'mon Mary you know we all think your a babe!:rolleyes:
demographic
13-09-2008, 21:27
No apologies needed, :) I do get vexed when (please see my definition of the semantics) Suvivalists insist on their voice being the only one that addresses every aspect of our activities and interests........there are hundreds of survival forums on the net, got to admit most are a big yawn..........why do they persist in trying to hassle this one :dunno: It surely can't be just the name.
I don't use the word bushcraft to describe what I do when talking to most folks.........and yes, I can make virtallly all my own kit, and frequently do, I am also incredibly fortunate in that I have a growing group of friends who also make, and are happy to barter :D :approve: I do get out lots, I generally forage daily too.............mostly because the perception of those who don't do it is of RM, and with the best will in the world, small cuddly middle aged female does not = RM :rolleyes: :o
And yet, notice how yet again an innocuous thread turns to Bushcraft/ survival/ Survivalist, and there's suddenly the need to restate our interpretation of the word and our chosen definitions of the differences on a British Bushcraft forum
I think on balance I'll stick to the bushcraft, and mention survival with a small s in the same breath when talking to Americans :)
Maybe it's the title........ ' more ' credit, :confused: we just don't know them so they haven't influenced us so they will get no credit.
Funny old world.
cheers,
Toddy
Herbacious Bordercraft, its the title for the future;)
Just wait, one day Ray will lose his marbles, go nuts with a Bushy knife and kill twenty people standing in line for a burger. The title of "Bushcraft" will be a no go area in the UK, then my herbacious bordercraft title will really gain momentum:)
Mebbe not eh?
I read somewhere that Ron Hood released a sort of "best bits" compilation of his other videos that was an hour or so long. Maybe that's the one to check out. It is called the survival basics DVD.
Yes, Scanker. That was the point I was trying to make. Thank you.
crazydave
16-09-2008, 06:06
I may be wrong but I do not think Les was ever an "army survival instructor" in the sense that, for example, Woody is/was.
While making soldiers a bit more familiar comfortable with indigenous food resources enhances their survivability, his role was more to establish a survival doctrine and from the start built on indigenous knowledge.
Some time ago, I was told that Les, after talking to the SASR about bush tucker, politely (and wisely) declined their offer of participating on their survival course and presumably of becoming a survival instructor.
He had no need to prove anything.
part of his brief was to educate the troops in what he was learning which was where the snack map came from. one thing he did do which was featured in his tv shows (in the same way rm piggybacked onto the excellent raf course) was to take a group of troops into the bush, give them a birefing then leave them with a group of aboriginals who would do the actual instruction. the aims being knowledge and break any prejudices between city boys and local natives :) the project was set up along with several others when the australians realised that they needed small self sufficient groups of troops for coastwatching/counter insurgency when they were worried about communist groups. the australian and new zealand sas being more of a specialised infantry unit rather than the british definition of 'them' :eek:
there's loads of forgotten or undiscovered 'gurus' out there and people should seek them out to encourage them to carry on. Mors kochanski was as unknown as ron hood to everyone except the survival community who read his book when it started to come over back in the late 80's I read one in '88 I think when my mate got a copy. same goes for eddie mcgee who was a true british inspiration and didn't have lofty wisemans scary stare.
knowledge is life so people should seek it without putting blinkers on. :)
Ron Hood
17-09-2008, 05:41
Errrr... well. I guess I ought to explain myself. At least the part that's fit to print.
At the age of 12 I discovered my.... [shut up Ron]
I'll try to 'splain my reasons for not having more of a video presence in GB. We started producing videos over 12 years ago. We had them duplicated to VHS tape. That immediately cut out most of the world as in the US our video standard is NTSC and in Europe it is PAL or SECAM. Very few outdoors folk had the dual mode players required to view our product. It wasn't until recently (last few years) that the all digital DVD became the format of choice and we had a product that could be viewed by the majority of Brits. Since we started offering DVD's exclusively, our British audience has grown significantly and for that we are grateful.
At the moment we lack a distribution system in GB. Sadly shipping costs add significantly to the cost of our product but we are actively searching for a good way to lower that cost though local distribution channels. Ultimately you will find us more easily.
Someone mentioned Edward Grylls. FWIW I was the first consultant on the show and though I like Edward a lot, I did not like the producers or the thrust the show was taking, so I quit. Shortly after that some of the photos we had taken during the shoot were released to the public in your local papers. Photos of a fake bear attack, fake maggots on so called rotten meat and more. I am not much loved by certain producers in GB and I'm not sure I care.
In the US we have had many TV programs that have not made the airways in GB. Some of you might have seen a bit on "Myth Busters" involving fire with a flashlight. Oddly I was in Romania filming a video on ancient Bronze making when that came on there. Odd coincidence....
Our products include much more than simply "survival" or "Bushcraft". We try to delve into the skills that make us what we are today from a natural perspective, a technological perspective and a scientific perspective. My educational training is in the Biological and Physical Science where I hold a Masters Degree.
As a teacher in the University I subscribed to the notion that the "Mind can only absorb while the butt can endure" so we try to keep folks from thinking about their butts. Humor is our method as it was in University.
I could go on and on but it's late and I'm editing a new video (the one I shot in Romania).
I did want to add one thing. The ATAX tool.
There were a few comments... a little snide me thinks but this is the genesis. I was riding my horse in the mountains, maybe 30 miles from the nearest road when something spooked it. I think it might have been a Grizzly I'd seen earlier. At any rate I lost my connection to the saddle and ended up in the air. I landed hard. I felt a pain in my upper leg and when I moved it hurt more. Two inches of my 4 inch fixed blade knife was sticking through the sheath into my leg. I cleaned it up, put some super glue on it, caught my horse and left.
In the following days I thought of a bunch of blade designs that were not potentially lethal to Horsemen or 4 wheelers. In time I had a blacksmith make me something like the ATAX and in a couple of years a bunch of my outfitter buddies wanted copies. I added some extra functions, made a video to explain how it's used and sold it to them. TOPS made 100 for me in a limited run. Now there are almost 10,000 out there. Many in the hands of our soldiers who find them handy.
You cannot have them in GB. The customs office has declared them to be "push daggers" though I fail to understand that reasoning. They have confiscated several now.
When I designed and made it, it was with the understanding that they are not for everyone and are not meant to be "do everything" tools. Just a handy pocket sized tool that works well in it's role.
Enough of that.
Best wishes to you all and keep on truckin'
Ron
Thanks for coming on and saying that.
Distribution could be handled without postage - data could be moved digitally and DVDs burnt at this end. You would just need a very trustworthy business partner to do so.
Sad about customs going looney on the ATAX:(
Hello Ron and thanks for coming on-line to talk to us.
When this thread started, I re-watched your survival basics dvd and my first impressions of your work remain unchanged. Its good, informative and enjoyable. Keep it up.
My children, in particular found it easy to digest, more so than other instructors works.
I'd disagree with you on one thing and that is the usefulness of a whistle in the jungle. It might not be the right thing to call attention to yourself when you are lost in the Vietnamese jungle (which is what I think you may have had at the back of your mind) but in 'safer' jungles it helped my friend and I to regain contact when we became separated in a downpour and were walking down different parts of a spur. Voice was drowned out but the whistle was audible.
Best Wishes
Ash
I'd echo my thanks for posting that too and a warm welcome to the site. Very interesting. Customs are doing odd things in the current climate of increasing knife crime.
I am ashamed and embarrassed that i didn't think of writing to Ron when this thread first popped up. I congratulate whoever did.
Thank you Ron for posting here and I promise to visit your site. I hope you will find time to come back here and post some of your outdoor tips for this great audience.
Forest fella
17-09-2008, 12:00
Hi,Hoods, Glad to see your still in the Business.
Ron Hood
17-09-2008, 16:46
Thanks for the kind welcome!
I will check in just in case there is some small thought I can add. Of course you are all invited to pop in over at our forum if you choose. We are establishing an international base of members and love it when knowledge cross pollinates different forums.
The whistle... The one in the Jungle survival kit. You are absolutely right. In that scene I was referring to the sorts of minds that would add a noisemaker to a kit intended for use in an area where the key to survival is invisibility. The Viet Cong were notoriously ill mannered with respect to POWS.
In our Jungle living video we had all the expedition members carry whistles at all times for the reasons you stated. The Chapra-Candoshi tribe we were living with also used whistles but they did it the old fashioned way, with their mouths and or leaves. We gave a few whistles to the kids and the cacophony that resulted almost drove us all mad. The tribal elders seemed a bit out of sorts by our generosity.
I've been scanning posts here and this looks like an excellent group. There is so much to learn in this life.
Ron
Bernie Garland
17-09-2008, 17:16
Hi Ron,welcome to the forum,glad to see you here.
Bernie
C_Claycomb
17-09-2008, 17:56
.... We gave a few whistles to the kids and the cacophony that resulted almost drove us all mad. The tribal elders seemed a bit out of sorts by our generosity.
Ron
:lmao:
A couple of years ago we had Mors Kochanski over here for a summer meet-up and he spent a busy day making little tin-strip (aluminum strip) whistles for the kids. The next day dawned to a "melodious warbling" :rolleyes: :aargh4:
:lmao:
Bernie Garland
17-09-2008, 18:05
:lmao:
A couple of years ago we had Mors Kochanski over here for a summer meet-up and he spent a busy day making little tin-strip (aluminum strip) whistles for the kids. The next day dawned to a "melodious warbling" :rolleyes: :aargh4:
:lmao:
We made some this year on the Mors course,and the noise they omit is staggering.
Bernie
Ron Hood
17-09-2008, 19:10
We made some this year on the Mors course,and the noise they omit is staggering.
Bernie
You mean they can actually silence noise!
;)
Ron
Bernie Garland
17-09-2008, 19:24
You mean they can actually silence noise!
;)
Ron
When you blow them everyone shuts up:D
Bernie
British Red
17-09-2008, 19:25
I think that emit :)
They were loud though ;) Strange how blowing mine was fun. I wish other people hadn't agreed when blowing theirs though.
Great ton see one of the "greats" here Ron. Honoured to see you here
Red
Ron Hood
17-09-2008, 20:01
I think that emit :)
They were loud though ;) Strange how blowing mine was fun. I wish other people hadn't agreed when blowing theirs though.
Great ton see one of the "greats" here Ron. Honoured to see you here
Red
I must say that you are very flexible! :)
Thank you sir! The honor is mine. I can enjoy working the editing system and turn my chair to enjoy the conversation. The best of all worlds.
FWIW...
Qui non est hodie crasus minus aptus erit
(I think that's how it goes, Latin is a long way back for me...)
Back to work....
Ron
crazydave
17-09-2008, 20:19
welcome sir and may you visit again.
okay so who's going to send him a moot invite then? :)
British Red
17-09-2008, 20:29
We call it "train hard, fight easy" :)
Red
Wow! Ron's in the house! Cool! :D Hope to see you over here more often, I've seen one of your DVDs and it was great. I like the way you have a little chuckle to yourself now and then, and the Cave Lady's quite nice too! I particularly liked the way she gutted the trouts, I've never seen that method before. Every day is a learning day.
**Edited as this bit looked like I was having a pop at Ron. This is for the community!**
As to the bushcraft/survival thing, I have an extensive library that is not quite on a par with Stuarts (whose is, other than Mors?). Picking a few books up I can look for certain subjects and they are identical in bushcraft books and survival books. ray himself wrote a Survival Handbook, so did Lofty Wiseman and his book has many skill sets that are used by the bushcraft fraternity. It's a word, they are the same thing until you are in a survival situation, then it becomes survival. IMO, you can't practice survival, becauwe there is no threat to life in your local woods when you had a bowl of porridge before leaving the house and you have your snap in your pack and a bottle of water, a cooker of some sort maybe, a tarp for when you get to where you're going, etc. What you are doing isn't bushcraft either. Aborigines in Australia practise bushcraft, they are doing all sorts and they live off it entirely. Who here lives off what they do entirely? Who here has shunned society, doesn't use petrol, electricity, gas, shops in the supermarket, buys their clothing from the shops, etc, etc?
You are practising skill sets, nothing more. You're not survivng, you're not bushcrafting. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news there, but I'm sick of the arguing over a bloody word! From now on, you tell the missus you're going skill set practising and be done with it!
If we never have this subject crop up again, it'll be too soon!
You are practising skill sets, nothing more. You're not survivng, you're not bushcrafting. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news there, but I'm sick of the arguing over a bloody word! From now on, you tell the missus you're going skill set practising and be done with it!
Spot on ....but I bet that won't be the last word on the subject ;)
Ron Hood
17-09-2008, 23:01
No bad news there Spamel! I didn't call our video series "Survival master" or "Bushmaster" (saw a porno named that once) I called it "Woodsmaster". I did that for a reason. Not yours but mine.
There was some conversation about the difference in terrain and area in several of the posts. Also a comment about cell phones. Where I live, if I walk ten miles there is no cell phone service. Once I get into the big trees or down in the canyons the GPS is nearly useless. If at that point a bear takes my gear or I lose it crossing a rapids (both have happened to me) I need survival skills. If I practice my skills I just call it "Practicing" or "Owning" a skill set. For my money arguing about terms is for desk monkeys not woodsmen. I saw a lot of that when we discussed the androgogy of wilderness training at the University. Those who do, don't care about the words... those who talk chatted on endlessly. My guess is that some of those folks are still talking about it. I hope that isn't what goes on here!
In my home we eat Elk, Bear, Cougar, Marmot, trout, deer, Beef, lamb, pork, insects etc etc. Most of these I kill and clean myself. I don't have much use for vegetarians except as prey. :) I don't consider any of these to be "survival foods" because in essence, all food is survival food.
Our work is not specifically training for any sort of emergency. We are trying to create a video encyclopedia of wilderness skills within the scope we define for each video.
I have a few books as well ....
Love 'em but don't read them. Rather do, than read.
Speaking of which... gotta edit.
Ron
I think shooting/fishing/etc. your own game is an important thing to do. People have no idea where theie meat comes from these days, I shoot rabbit and it all goes in the pot. As you say, you kill it you eat it!
Oh, and the second part of my post wasn't directed at you Ron, I've just re-read it and it does look like that! :eek: It was for the community as a whole! I'll go and change that accordingly!
Ron Hood
18-09-2008, 03:48
I think shooting/fishing/etc. your own game is an important thing to do. People have no idea where theie meat comes from these days, I shoot rabbit and it all goes in the pot. As you say, you kill it you eat it!
Oh, and the second part of my post wasn't directed at you Ron, I've just re-read it and it does look like that! :eek: It was for the community as a whole! I'll go and change that accordingly!
Sorry Spamel... I read my post and it did seem like I was directing it at your post... OOPS! Let's go get a beer!
We all know that the internet is incapable of transmitting nuance and expressions.. I was winking when I made some of those comments. There were a few academics I wanted to put on my food list.
I agree whole heartedly with your comment about modern folk not knowing where their food comes from. We've had guests who wouldn't eat their lamb when I told them I killed it. What difference does it make who killed it? The good Lord didn't give us canines and cutting teeth to eat bananas!
FWIW I thought it might be interesting to a few readers to take a look at this random outfitters site from our neck of the woods.
http://www.middleforkoutfitters.com/
It sorta gives folks a sense of size as well as the hunting available here. I tend to shy away from bear meat these days as more and more are found hosting Trichinosis infections. This comes from eating in human garbage piles. More hunting drives the bears deeper into the mountains where they don't feed on contaminated garbage.... just backpackers.
Lions don't suffer this indignity since they like their meat freshish and not garbage. Lion meat is "The other white meat" and tastes a lot like very nice pork. Bear meat is a lot gamier and tends to have a whiff of garbage if it isn't back country raised. A big mean bear means a lot of really nasty meat you need to cook into stews and dog food.
Ron
For my money arguing about terms is for desk monkeys not woodsmen. I saw a lot of that when we discussed the androgogy of wilderness training at the University. Those who do, don't care about the words... those who talk chatted on endlessly. My guess is that some of those folks are still talking about it. I hope that isn't what goes on here!
A pity the rep button is out of use at the moment, because I'm sure your stock would be soaring. Nicely put.
Paganwolf
18-09-2008, 10:29
Hahahahahahahahaha!!!! Classic, i can small the rubber burning on some of those back peddling mice wheels already :rolleyes: :lmao: Nice one Ron youve just made my year ;)
Quote of the century :lmao:
"If I practice my skills I just call it "Practicing" or "Owning" a skill set. For my money arguing about terms is for desk monkeys not woodsmen. I saw a lot of that when we discussed the androgogy of wilderness training at the University. Those who do, don't care about the words... those who talk chatted on endlessly. My guess is that some of those folks are still talking about it. I hope that isn't what goes on here!"
Ooop's lets have a beer :D
gotta go dry my eyes now........................... .
Forest fella
18-09-2008, 10:57
Hi,Ron, I'm going to have to buy a new WoodsMaster volume 9 at some point as My dvd player killed the last section with Tim Lively,Or I watched it to Death,not sure which,And you were right As soon as I watched it,I started to Forge my own knives.
Great stuff
mick miller
18-09-2008, 11:19
Good to hear from the man himself. Keep up the great work and the relaxed approach.
British Red
18-09-2008, 11:19
For my money arguing about terms is for desk monkeys not woodsmen.
I have to say that is a fantastic phrase!
In fact - can I have it as a quote for my signature line ? :cool:
Paganwolf
18-09-2008, 11:40
Oooooooooh my sides are still hurtin :lmao:
Thats was exactly what i was thinking Red ;)
Easy. Because hardly anyone knows who he is. :D
Ron Hood
18-09-2008, 16:46
Thanks guys!
British Red... If you like it please feel free.
Forest Fella... Did the section play properly when you first got it? If you had a problem initially we can replace it for you. Sometimes during shipping the disk will come loose and scratch a section. Drop me a PM and we can fix it.
Anything specific I can confuse for you fellas? :)
Ron
British Red
18-09-2008, 19:11
Cheers Ron - just twigged the "flexible" comment - you are a sick puppy :D
As a UK retailer of your stuff, can I suggest you talk to Lurch on here? (aka http://www.lakelandbushcraft.co.uk/ he's kind of "one of us" but also a sensible quality retailer)
Red
Ron, have you ever visited Wales in the summer? Maybe next year...?
:D
British Red
18-09-2008, 19:37
Now that might even get me out of the woods long enough to turn up to a moot
Or better yet a couple of courses after.........
Red
Bernie Garland
18-09-2008, 19:48
Now that might even get me out of the woods long enough to turn up to a moot
Or better yet a couple of courses after.........
Red
Totally agree there Red
Bernie
You're going to have to explain that lot to us Brits!
Paganwolf
19-09-2008, 07:21
:lol: :slap: Dont tar everyone with the same brush :twak: :rolleyes:
Well OK, explain it for me. :lmao:
Guys, this seems to be going way off track, a question about recognition has turned into...umm, not sure...
But please stop it, keep talking about skills, bushcraft, great people, DVD's etc but keep off of politics and race. ;)
Paganwolf
19-09-2008, 12:33
Well OK, explain it for me. :lmao:
lol nice one, PM me for translation ;) , I make you right there Tony.....
Red... I can't help it. The other day some tourist said she was "beating off the Mexicans" in California and it was all I could do to keep the snot in my nose.
Ron
I know what you mean Ron I made the mistake of asking for fags (cigarettes) in Canada.:twak:
Paganwolf
19-09-2008, 18:32
Same here when i went into a stationers and asked for a Rubber, i only wanted to do some homework i was about 11 got a realllllllly funny look till my uncle piped up he means an eraser :rolleyes:
Ron Hood
19-09-2008, 20:42
Since my post was deleted .... my bad.... and....Sorry guys... Looks like I strayed into your forbidden land with respect to humor and comment. I'll check in here from time to time to see if there is anything I can contribute woods wise.
Be well!
Ron
Ron's in da house again!
:You_Rock_
It's so cool having the Woodsmaster about. Ron, sometimes we hve to watch ourselves as this place is looked at by kids so we tend to take it a bit easy and try to be all polite and British! You know, stiff upper lip and all that! :D There's a no religion or politics rule too, as that always ends in a bun fight (I said BUN!) but generally the Mods are easy going. There are a lot of ex-military blokes on board too, so you'll fit right in with your background.
You could start a thread up and tell us all abit about yourself, that would be interesting reading.
You could start a thread up and tell us all abit about yourself, that would be interesting reading.[/QUOTE]
I'd be interested in that.
Ron Hood
21-09-2008, 04:38
You could start a thread up and tell us all abit about yourself, that would be interesting reading.
It wouldn't be a very good read. I only did 4 years in the military 40 years ago... other than that a lot of bug eating and travel. My comments about some places would likely get me wiped again. Political? Well I liked Agusto Pinochet but then I just worked for his military.
I want to say something about a stiff upper lip but I keep thinking about the kids reading. It had something to do with a cream....
Ron
Silverback
24-09-2008, 15:29
Since my post was deleted .... my bad.... and....Sorry guys... Looks like I strayed into your forbidden land with respect to humor and comment. I'll check in here from time to time to see if there is anything I can contribute woods wise.
Be well!
RonYou didn't stray into my forbidden land Ron I thought your post was a breath of fresh air :rolleyes: and in all honesty would have pitched a good few feet over the heads of the younger readers (those that got the joke would have already kissed the sweet and innocence fairy goodbye long ago ;))
Forest fella
03-10-2008, 16:28
Well,Ron has very kindly sent me afew of his dvds, so I want to put them on a pass-round for those of you who want to see what Ron and Karen do,
If those in the know can help me get these dvds on a pass-round that would be great
Bernie Garland
03-10-2008, 17:14
Well,Ron has very kindly sent me afew of his dvds, so I want to put them on a pass-round for those of you who want to see what Ron and Karen do,
If those in the know can help me get these dvds on a pass-round that would be great
I dont know how to do it,but i'd be up for a pass around,thanks.
Bernie
Mesquite
03-10-2008, 18:54
I dont know how to do it,but i'd be up for a pass around,thanks.
Bernie
It's simple, you start a list of who wants to be on the pass around.
Forest Fella PM's the first person for their address who then does the same to the next on the list when they're finished watching the DVD's and so on until it gets back to FF.
Bernie Garland
03-10-2008, 18:56
It's simple, you start a list of who wants to be on the pass around.
Forest Fella PM's the first person for their address who then does the same to the next on the list when they're finished watching the DVD's and so on until it gets back to FF.
Can you sort it then please Steve,i know how to put me name down thats about it cheers.
Bernie
Mesquite
03-10-2008, 19:08
Can you sort it then please Steve,i know how to put me name down thats about it cheers.
Bernie
LOL Ok Bernie
Ron Hood DVD Pass around
Cut and paste your name to the list
1. Bernie Garland
2. Mesquite
Bernie Garland
03-10-2008, 19:15
LOL Ok Bernie
Ron Hood DVD Pass around
Cut and paste your name to the list
1. Bernie Garland
2. Mesquite
Many thanks Steve, you even inserted me,much obliged.
Bernie
Forest fella
03-10-2008, 19:31
cheers guys,I ask the question and it gets done for me,I feel abit lazy,but if it gets it done,I can live with myself.
I will keep an eye on the progress,or let me know your details,and we can start passing, it's up to you guys.
Many thanks for your help and your interest
korvin karbon
03-10-2008, 20:13
Ron Hood DVD Pass around
Cut and paste your name to the list
1. Bernie Garland
2. Mesquite
3. Korvin Karbon
You'll need to impose rules if you want them too, maybe a minimum number of posts, a certain amount of time as a member, lemgth of time for each DVD, whether they will go out as one or individually, postage: signed for, insured, etc. Make sure you think it through before you start the ball rolling.
Humpback
03-10-2008, 22:07
Ron Hood DVD Pass around
Cut and paste your name to the list
1. Bernie Garland
2. Mesquite
3. Korvin Karbon
4. Humpback (Alan Gough)
1. Bernie Garland
2. Mesquite
3. Korvin Karbon
4. Humpback (Alan Gough)
5. Scanker
Good advice from Spam about imposing some rules - you don't want them going missing. I'd be interested in a look. Ta.
Silverback
04-10-2008, 17:49
Yup I'd be up for a gander
1. Bernie Garland
2. Mesquite
3. Korvin Karbon
4. Humpback (Alan Gough)
5. Scanker
6. Silverback
Goosegog
12-07-2012, 12:51
Mr Ron Hood is deceased... please check his website
Mr Ron Hood is deceased... please check his website
But he wasn't four years ago when this thread was started ;) .
Graham_S
12-07-2012, 13:16
This thread is 4 years old.
Thread Closed.