View Full Version : Winter sleeping kit
I'm looking for a good quality synthetic autumn/winter bags. I'll be happy to spend £50-£100 on it. I would like it if it's in a green colour but it is'nt essential. Anyone got any ideas?
I'm a very happy chap with my Ajungilak (http://www.ajungilak.no) Kompakt (3 season) :biggthump - so maybe a bag from the Tyin range is something you're looking for.
I've heard Buffalo (http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/ssmain.htm) also makes some good bags - but I'm not if they fit into your budget though :?:
Or a Snugpak (http://www.snugpak.net)??
Happy hunting :wink: :biggthump
well i got a 90 pattern and that suits me all year and you could pick one up grade one or you could by one new for the same amount u looking for just search on army surplus sites :biggthump
bushblade
28-09-2004, 14:16
I'm looking for a good quality synthetic autumn/winter bags. I'll be happy to spend £50-£100 on it. I would like it if it's in a green colour but it is'nt essential. Anyone got any ideas?
Check out Canyon mountain sports in Leicester they stock the Mountain Equipment Military sleeping bags. Avoid Snugpak.
All of the team at Sherwood SS use Vango Nitestar 450's with standard issue Goretex bivvy bags.
No complaints and around the £40 mark.
All came from http://www.outdoormegastore.co.uk
Cheers
Peter
What kind of winter is i t going to be used in British Winter, arctic winter or where?
it's going to be used in brittish winter
Do you get winter in Britain, i guess you mostly get rain. So what you need mostly is a good bivy bag. Maybe you only need a fleece liner or something similar for your old sleeping bag.
i already have a bivy bag. But i really need a new sleeping bag. Please
Paganwolf
28-09-2004, 18:19
Snugpak osprey are pretty good ive never been cold in mine, packs down quite small with the compression sac, ive got a snugpak fleece liner but never needed to use it.
if ur also looking for a small pack size then defonatley go for a snugpack but my friend has a nitestar 450 and he has no complantes about it and we'v been camping in the cairngorms in winter :biggthump
Since I am thinking to buy me a new sleeping bag too this is what I am thinking of.
Fjällräven, their mummie range looks good at a low price and weight
http://www.fjallraven.com
Nanok, their endurance range is made for soldiers and are made so that you can sleep with your boots on.
http://www.nanok.no
ChrisKavanaugh
28-09-2004, 19:20
The problem with an international community is our resources often are not. Fortunately information isn't taxed-yet. www.wiggys.com has an archived newsletter that is a treasure of information and anecdotal field reports. Jerry is opinionated and has his supporters and detractors. We can handle a knife, understand the Rockwell, steel type and feel it's balance. A sleeping bag is this big limp bit of kit with something inside that may or may not keep us warm, last one season or many and possibly save our life. Read his newsletters. Again, Jerry doesn't pull any punches. But you will understand more about whats inside everybodie's product. I once briefly owned a Rover 2000 TC. I had to sort out some wiring and remove the rear seat. Some previous occupant had stashed a pipe and large bag of hash in there :shock: . I've always investigated the insides of my possessions ever since :wink:
I have a ME mil TDS, zero rated, superb bit of kit. I have used several bags over the years (inc Buffalo System) but this is as near to perfect as your gonna get, good warm/weight ratio, very good design and compresses fairly small.
The expanding panel around the knees is a real boon, this bag combined with my hammock have given the most comfortable nights sleep I have ever had outdoors.
Neil
If you only got a fifty to spend i'd go for a mod 90 pattern. I seen them go for next to nothing. i used them for long periods in cold tempatures with no problems. I'd also think about getting some good protection from the ground. :o):
wentworth
30-09-2004, 00:34
Of course if you wanted to go really light...
http://www.ray-way.com/quilt/index.shtml
I made up one of these quilts, an extra wide one and it weighs 800grams!
Jardine also offers a third layer of insulation (torso sized to save weight) which drops the temp down to about 20F.
The idea is to just wear whatever hat you carry when you sleep.
i use a mod 90 pattern and i have no problems with it and with use with a gore-tex bivi-bag it's perfect and i also use a karrimor karry mat :biggthump
happy days mate
i have a down bag from Rab (http://www.rab.uk.com/) if you find something in their range to suit you, i would cartainly recomend them!! pack up very small! :biggthump
whats woodlores system like apart from the price????
I use the mid-range Woodlore Bag and after you get used to the centre rather than side zip it's a very warm bag (certainly in Autumn, as i haven't used it in the depths of winter yet), and always in a tent.
I bought mine a couple of years ago when my snugpak softie 12 died. Only problem I guess is the highish price.
Graham.
...... I once briefly owned a Rover 2000 TC. I had to sort out some wiring and remove the rear seat. Some previous occupant had stashed a pipe and large bag of hash in there :shock: . I've always investigated the insides of my possessions ever since :wink:
:rolmao: reminds me of when a guy in South Africa in the late 80's wanted to remove accumulated and dark particles in a strange pattern on the sides of his WW Microbus. When they opened the inside panels they found some 12 or 16 limpet mines with magnets :yikes: . The particles on the outside of the car was metal drawn by the magnets.
The SAP tried to trace the ownership of the car, and concluded that the car was used by the ANC to smuggle weapons, but had then been stolen and sold to several people before the guy who found the mines.
Oh by the way. My winter sleeping bag is the old model of Ajungilak Tyin Elite which can be used in even colder temperatures than the current models. A few dealers here in Norway may still have a small stock of the old models if one is lucky like me :o):
I've slept comfortable outside in that bag in -27 degrees Celcious wearing only my underwear (nope it wasn't even the woolens), while the rest of the group slept inside a damp and dripping snowcave. The trick was to eat a good meal with lots of carbohydrates before going to sleep, so the body had something to keep the machinery warm.
The trick was to eat a good meal with lots of carbohydrates before going to sleep, so the body had something to keep the machinery warm.
Excellent point - many forget that a sleeping bag doesn't supply warmth but trap it, and that warmth comes form the human machinery! :biggthump
Does anyone know how good the woodlore sleeping bags are. i was looking at the autumn/winter one, what temperature can it go down to?
does anyone know anything about the woodlore sleeping bags, are they good because they are certainly a lot of moneyand very heavy, What temperature can the autumn/winter one go down to?
What are everyones opinion on the old mod issue G10 bag,they can be picked up very cheap now,even brand new ones.
I was wondering about the gor tex bivvy bag. do they condense up at all on the inside or do the much cheaper arctic ones, on ebay, aswell?
does anyone know anything about the woodlore sleeping bags, are they good because they are certainly a lot of moneyand very heavy, What temperature can the autumn/winter one go down to?
I've got the Osprey (http://www.raymears.com/shop_item_desc.cfm?id=62&itemType=Sleeping%20Out), thier lightest bag, but at 2100g it's heavier than many 4 season bags. It's excellent and will cope with mild British winters i would think (though this is my first winter with it, so am yet to test it personally). Construction is superb, it's made by nanok and is almost identical to thier -10 endurance bag (http://www.nanok.no/eng/endurance/endurance-10.htm), except the osprey has a centre zip and some other nice features (internal mesh pockets and so on).
Between the two, I'd just get the cheapest.
What are everyones opinion on the old mod issue G10 bag,they can be picked up very cheap now,even brand new ones.
I used one in the forces for a good period of time, outside of the army and as a surplus peice of kit they are the cheapest down bag that you can get anywhere. The only thing that I would say is make sure you get a good one, a lot of surplus bags have very little filling in them, but if you can get a good, well filled bag then they are a top choice IMO
The problem is that they are down, although down bags are superb they have problems with moisture (when they get wet they stay wet and are cold) and in the U.K. this is not a bonus. If you can keep one dry and gaurentee that it will stay this way they are the best bag on the market for cost weight and packed size. I hope these comments are helpfull :o):
ChrisKavanaugh
16-10-2004, 19:05
Hootchi, I personally do not use Goretex. I hesitate to recommend www.wiggys.com newsletters to often, but they are worth the time to slog through. Goretex can be very dangerous. There have been some suffocations associated with Goretex bags.
arctic hobo
16-10-2004, 19:50
Since I am thinking to buy me a new sleeping bag too this is what I am thinking of.
Fjällräven, their mummie range looks good at a low price and weight
http://www.fjallraven.com
Nanok, their endurance range is made for soldiers and are made so that you can sleep with your boots on.
http://www.nanok.no
Good choices! I'd very strongly recommend those Nanoks, my Endurance -25 is the best it of kit I have ever seen never mind owned. Really really really good. No cold spots, machine washable (no glue), can zip together to share body warmth, have armholes so you can do things without getting out of the bag, and as you mention you can keep your boots on in them. Fantastic
Anyone no the difference in price between the woodlor bags and the nanok ones
Nice logo on the foot section and paying for the privilage of having it (totally unsubstantiated, but an educated guess :shock: )
Neil
Great Pebble
16-10-2004, 21:04
I keep asking this and keep not getting answered.
What's the pack size of the Nanok bags like, in comparison to say a snugpak?
They sound good but in the pics I've seen they look very bulky.
I keep asking this and keep not getting answered.
What's the pack size of the Nanok bags like, in comparison to say a snugpak?
They sound good but in the pics I've seen they look very bulky.
Dunno about the nanok, but the woodlore osprey falls somewhere in between thier 0 and -10 bags and the Osprey is very bulky.
ChrisKavanaugh
17-10-2004, 03:33
People forget simple physics with bags. Insulation keeps us warm by trapping warm air. This is called loft. Give me enough popcorn, shredded cigarette butts or newspaper and I can insulate you. How well and long each material performs is another issue. But I garantee my bag of popcorn next to a down or synthetic bag will weigh in at @ 5lbs for a cold rated unit and all will be- bulky. Thats why Inuits are stocky and not built like Watusis or Elephant Seals like Antelope. The compressability without breakdown or loss of loft is the real concern. The various bag and pack makers have figured out dimensions in their products and should both be ready to provide said information. Id rather be overheated at day packing a few extra pounds or bulk of bag than freezing at night anyway :wave:
has the mid range woodlore bag got a sholder baffle?
Paganwolf
17-10-2004, 10:39
Heres the snugpak softie 9 hawk -5 comfort -10 low
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/jlamour1/Picture1.jpg
it goes to about 10" wide 9" deep in its stuff sac just for a comparison :wink:
arctic hobo
17-10-2004, 21:49
I keep asking this and keep not getting answered.
What's the pack size of the Nanok bags like, in comparison to say a snugpak?
They sound good but in the pics I've seen they look very bulky.
Well my Nanok is indeed rather large - but then again I don't use a tent, and bear in mind it's a -25 model. It's synthetic, so it is bigger than a down equivalent (not that there is such a thing). To be honest though, I don't care about its size, as the advantages far outweigh it.
Little Mole
17-10-2004, 23:49
have armholes so you can do things without getting out of the bag, Fantastic
I'd love a bag with legholes. I usually end up opening the zip and lying on the sleeping mat with all my clothes on and the bag over me like a blanket. I can't sleep with my legs restricted.
I'm in the Market for a new bag also as my Ajungilak Kompakt is a little long in the tooth these days and doesn't loft anywhere near as well as it did.
Anyhow there is a similar sleeping bag thread running over on ETS at the moment and Wiggys gets a favourable mention.
So checking out Wiggys website I came across his Opinion on Snugpak equipment !!! :shock:
follow the link below.
http://www.wiggys.com/legacy/news.cfm
If nothing else it's a useful insight as to how Synthetic sleeping bags are made and what to look for in a synthetic bag.
Cheers
John
Great Pebble
18-10-2004, 01:01
I've had my snugpack, can't remember which one it is for about... 7/8 years now. It's knackered. But I used it in all conditions and never had any complaints.
Little Mole
18-10-2004, 01:08
I just wish they were made of something that didn't stink and that they had legholes...I am not a fan. I've often thought of going out with what I'm wearing (usually about three layers) and a wool blanket.
A couple of pics. In the first, you can see the woodlore osprey is clearly badged as "Nanok" and no doubt made by them.
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/bag1.jpg
the next pic you can see the Osprey next to a Swedish Army mess kit (stainless steel by the way :naughty: ) ...for scale. You can swee from the wrinkles and bulges that the bag is compressed, in fact it's as compressed as I'm physically able to get it...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/bag2.jpg
Yes, the bag is big, it's heavy too at 2100 grams. But you get what you pay for and with synthetic bags, there is just no way to cut down on size and weight without cutting down on comfort and warmth. Yeah, the snugpaks will be lighter and smaller, but they'll be colder too - unless you get one of a similar weight and size.
The endurance -10 (comfort rated) from nanok weighs in at 2340g but has a double zipper, while the 0 rated bag is 1790g, again wit6h a double zip. The single, centre zipped Osprey is quoted as 2100g (bang on the money according to my kitchen scales) And although Woodlore dont give it a rating, I'd say it falls pretty much in the middle of the two nanok's. The osprey is £125inc, the nanok -10 endurance is £100 from Trek Direct - I'd prolly buy the latter if I was looking again.
why are the woodlore bags so heavy?
I'm getting fed up of looking for sleeping bags can anyone sujest a low weight winter bag?
Just got the nanok catalogue through the post they say in it that they supply ray mears with bags and in turn he supply's them to the British sas they do look really good bags and cheaper than woodlore and the -25 you can have with the centre zip if you want and there are UK suppliers if anyone wants the addresses.
yes can you give me them, how do you get the catologue
MagiKelly
25-10-2004, 15:08
I've just ordered the 0 and -10 Nanok endurance bags. The plan being that this will cover all uses. When I have the canoe and weight is not an issue I will take both bags and also when it is really cold. It is going to be interesting to see how they are when nested.
Trek Direct are doing a deal when you buy both for £160 including postage and I have been told I should have them for the weekend. I will let you know what I think when they arrive.
arctic hobo
26-10-2004, 10:24
You can also buy them from www.shocktroop.com. Where I got my £130 Endurance -25 from :-)
Given Jack's budget of £50-£100, preference for green etc see Mountain Equipment TDS Military
http://www.theoutdoorshop.com/Outdoor/ProductList.aspx?cat=MilitaryS leepingBags&Page=1&language=en-GB
I have TDS3 wich is -12 Comfort, -18 Extreme, lofts up like it's inflatable, and warm as toast. The Civvy versions (not olive!) are called ME Sleepwalkers and are constantly "Best in Test" in Trail Magazine tests.
If olive green isn't essential, you can get hold of old stock ME down bags that weigh a lot less and pack small for about £110, but see earlier comments about damp!
http://www.cmmonline.co.uk/shop/items/default.asp?id=08308001
I can't believe it!!! When i first looked at the outdoor shop the tds2 was £69, when i went on it again it was £90! So i then went and bought it a shop for £90 then i went on the site again and it's £69 again. I've been had, i wonder if i can take the sleeping bag back.
i would.. if they give tou store credit get it for 69 and some other stuff too!
bushblade
09-11-2004, 14:05
I can't believe it!!! When i first looked at the outdoor shop the tds2 was £69, when i went on it again it was £90! So i then went and bought it a shop for £90 then i went on the site again and it's £69 again. I've been had, i wonder if i can take the sleeping bag back.
If the bag is unused you have up to 28 days to ask for your money back, you'd be well within your rights.
Assuming you have the reciept of course.
get yourself a snugpak softie 9, excellent quality and packs up small. used one for years most of the year. now i'm old and fat i settle for my ME Snowline...comfort but not cheap
or you can always settle for a good second hand army doss bag. make sure you get the 95 pattern as they are far superior to the old roll-em-in-the-hood type. :super:
describe what you mean by "used" yes i have taken it out of the stuff sack and lay in it. Does this mean i have used it?
bushblade
15-11-2004, 13:59
describe what you mean by "used" yes i have taken it out of the stuff sack and lay in it. Does this mean i have used it?
By used I mean in field use, if you've just tried it for size etc. that should be fine.
c2518, I can't belive someone who uses a ME snowline could possibly recomend Snugpak, there is no comparrision ME bags are the same price (synthetic) but far better in every rescpect.
Guess who found 4 G10 army down filled sleeping bags in his stores at the TA
Guess who's bestest bud is now the storeman :naughty:
i've bought a me military tds 2. Haven't tried it proper yet. What do people think. Is it the rating what it says how long do they last etc. It better be good cleaned my bank account out. (im only 13) i don't get much money
...... Is it the rating what it says how long do they last etc.
Comfort ratings for sleeping bags are very different from manufacturer to manufacturer, as there is no official international standard (yet) for measuring this. A good rule of thumb is to subtract 10 C from the temperature stated by the manufacturer. With other words: if the brochure says that the sleeping bag is rated to minus 25 C, you can usually count on sleeping warm and comfortable in -15 C and be a little cold in -25 C. Different liners and bivi covers can increase the warmth with anything from 2 to 10 degrees.
A good down sleeping bag for winter use should have at least 1,5 kg of down insulation material, preferably more. A synthetic fibre sleeping bag should have at least 2,2 kg of insulation material – preferably more like 3 kg. The heavier the better!
Guess who found 4 G10 army down filled sleeping bags in his stores at the TA
Guess who's bestest bud is now the storeman :naughty:Ive got a G10,their big n bulky but damn comfy and damn warm.
what are g 10's and where do you get them from. What temp can it go down till?
A G10 is the "old" army sleeping bag , down filled ,with a waterproof base
clem how does the weight and size compare to the modern army bag ? I can't recall
wentworth
27-11-2004, 23:30
Comfort ratings for sleeping bags are very different from manufacturer to manufacturer, as there is no official international standard (yet) for measuring this. A good rule of thumb is to subtract 10 C from the temperature stated by the manufacturer. With other words: if the brochure says that the sleeping bag is rated to minus 25 C, you can usually count on sleeping warm and comfortable in -15 C and be a little cold in -25 C. Different liners and bivi covers can increase the warmth with anything from 2 to 10 degrees.
A good down sleeping bag for winter use should have at least 1,5 kg of down insulation material, preferably more. A synthetic fibre sleeping bag should have at least 2,2 kg of insulation material – preferably more like 3 kg. The heavier the better!
There's a formula sometimes used to calculate approximate temp ratings:
ETR = 100 - (40 * T)
ETR is the effective temp rating, T is the thickness in inches of the sleeping bag (the bit of it that actually covers you, not the underside). So if you measured the thickness (loft) of the top half of your bag and it turned out to be 2 inches thick... 100 - (40 * 2") = 20 degrees F
Of course this varies from person to person... you know... metabolic rates and all that.
A G10 is the "old" army sleeping bag , down filled ,with a waterproof base
clem how does the weight and size compare to the modern army bag ? I can't recallSorry mate i cannot answer that as ive never used or seen a modern army bag.
the old army sleeping bags like the 58 patt if i recoll are pritty heavy and u cant really compress them as they roll up in to the hood,unlike the modern ones like 90 patt which i use all year round its pritty big but can be compressed and dryed easier than old bags .
Brynglas
07-12-2004, 00:01
I use a buffalo three bag system which has looked after me during thre Norwewgian Winters and several Scottish and Welsh ones. The downside is that it's a bit bulky and difficult to compress, but it remains extremely effective when wet/damp and dosen't need to be protected from condensation or wet in the same way as down. It's also tough as old boots.
Since I left the services a number of years ago, my outer bag shrunk considerably(that's my story and I'm sticking to it, absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with me getting a belly, honest!! :oops: ). I recently sent the bag back to buffalo to get a new zip fitted and they kindly fitted a gussett in order to account for the er....shrinkage. So I can confirm that the after sales service from buffalo is god too.
:chill:
bigjackbrass
07-12-2004, 19:39
So I can confirm that the after sales service from buffalo is god too.
:chill:
Ah, so that's where he's been working recently.