View Full Version : Ray Mears Super Tarp
New Kit but at £130 I dont think I will be replacing my Tatonka anytime soon! :eek:
http://www.raymears.com/Bushcraft_Product/646-Ray-Mears-Super-Tarp
Humpback
03-08-2008, 20:09
I looked at this but having seen in the flesh the True North Big Tarp decided on that from Brookbank canoe shop at Warwick.
http://www.truenorthoutdoor.co.uk/bigtarp.htm
I added some prussiks of various sizes and Bob's your aunties spouse.
Alan
sandbender
03-08-2008, 21:51
Not too keen on using a camouflage tarp, will stick to my Hilleberg, which is a little smaller but a whole kilogram lighter :D
Hilleberg Tarp UL 10 – 3.5 x 3.0 m/11.5 x 10 ft (570 g)
Squidders
03-08-2008, 22:39
That's one huge tarp!
Lightweight...1,5kg O.o
Too much of that kind of 'lightweight' equipment and I wouldn't be able to carry my backpack :D
I made one myself, measureing 3x3 meters, and weigh just over 400g. And beside a few hours of labour it only cost me like 25£.
Yeah thats not too lightweight but then again i did make the conscious purchase of a tatonka tech cotton one that weighs about the same - but it's a lovely feeling being under it and i don't worry about the fire being too close.
But the price of that thing on RM site is scary :Wow:
I would hope it comes with a 70acre woodland to tie it to for that price.
>>I made one myself, measureing 3x3 meters, and weigh just over 400g. And beside a few hours of labour it only cost me like 25£
Mikkel, what material did you use? I was thinking about making a large poncho/rainfly. 44g per square metre is very light indeed. Tatonka tarps weight in at 157g/m2. Even the Hilleberg UL is 56g/m2, and when I looked at the Hilleberg it seemed I could push my finger through it.
sandbender
04-08-2008, 20:10
and when I looked at the Hilleberg it seemed I could push my finger through it.
I'll grant that the material is very thin to look at, but it is surprisingly tough, several hundred nights in the forest so far and not a rip or tear to be seen...
...touch wood :D
>>I'll grant that the material is very thin to look at, but it is surprisingly tough, several hundred nights in the forest so far and not a rip or tear to be seen...
I was tempted, but in the end I went for the XP5. IMHO perfect for hammocking. At 1.5m wide a little narrow, but I guess the material comes in rolls on multiples of 1.5m. Packs down to about the size of a nalgene bottle.Weighs about 700g including ridgeline and 6 tentpegs.
sandbender
04-08-2008, 22:07
...but in the end I went for the XP5. IMHO perfect for hammocking....
And its a nice shade of green, not camouflage :)
Squidders
04-08-2008, 22:19
I actually like the auscam, I find it blends in much better than a large block of a single colour.
It's all down to personal preference though and I don't think I'd go for an aftermarket tarp in camo... the original hootchie is ok though.
Paullyfuzz
04-08-2008, 23:07
Does anybody else think this is a blatant rip off ? £130 for a tarp, do they think were stupid. No dought some idiot will buy one.
Squidders
04-08-2008, 23:10
I wouldn't say people with enough expendable cash to buy one of these are stupid ;)
Next we'l be owning knives other than Moras :p
lostagain
05-08-2008, 00:55
DD tarp for me, got a 3x2 and 3x3. Admittedly a bit heavier than Mr Mears one but cheap as chips. Would like a lighter one but £130 is very very steep for a roof (or does that include Ray popping out and setting it up for you ??!)
Ebay camo polythene tarp 3x4 for me, £6 off eBay in 2006, still going strong;)
Does anybody else think this is a blatant rip off ? £130 for a tarp, do they think were stupid. No dought some idiot will buy one.
People still pay £90 for a shirt though don't they?
I have a tarp, 3 by 2m, 350g, perfectly happy with it. it's beginning to show an occasional hole, but I should get 50 more nights out of it. And for £2.50, I'm happy.
bushcraftbob
05-08-2008, 17:09
I bought a very large tarpauline from Tarpaflex for about a tenner, it works fine and at the end of the day, £10 quid is diddly squat so dont mind too much if it gets torn or damaged etc.
The price of this tarp could prove to be a reality check for some, £130 or £10 for a tarp, why on earth are we paying this type of silly money ?
A hand made knife will cost a lot, and so it should, its hand made, but a tarp, or a shirt costing this type of money is crazy.
Please don't say your £90 shirt will last a decade, my German army shirt already has and cost a couple of quid, and my £6 tarp has done outstanding service in wet and high wind weather.
mortalmerlin
06-08-2008, 19:08
The price of this tarp could prove to be a reality check for some, £130 or £10 for a tarp, why on earth are we paying this type of silly money ?
A hand made knife will cost a lot, and so it should, its hand made, but a tarp, or a shirt costing this type of money is crazy.
Please don't say your £90 shirt will last a decade, my German army shirt already has and cost a couple of quid, and my £6 tarp has done outstanding service in wet and high wind weather.
Why pay good money for kit? Well I suppose one answer would be because it keeps money in the UK, Europe and in this case Ozzy Economy rather than sending it all to China and causing a recession (Oh look, we did). Someone has already pointed out the materials were about 25 pounds, plus a couple of hours labour and your up to 130 pounds selling price. We are just too conditioned into paying peanuts for imported rubbish.
And your German Army shirt I would guess is surplus and cost the German Army a lot more than a couple of quid new (probably 36 thousand with some of the creative accounting the military engages in :D ).
sandbag47
06-08-2008, 19:47
i'm doing the dd group buy. the light weight tarps are 3mx3m. they have 19 loops.weights about 640g. and the cost is £27 pounds
Bogeyman
06-08-2008, 20:17
How on earth can they (Woodlore / Ray Mears) justify such a price tag?
Why don't they offer alternative (cheaper) versions next to these "high end" products.....that might be a better way in making people enthusiastic about starting in bushcraft.
Especially for the youngsters who start taking an interest in this way of life...it might turn them off of it with prices this ridiculous! :aargh4:
Sorry, had to let it out.................:sad6:
mortalmerlin
09-08-2008, 12:43
How on earth can they (Woodlore / Ray Mears) justify such a price tag?
Why don't they offer alternative (cheaper) versions next to these "high end" products.....that might be a better way in making people enthusiastic about starting in bushcraft.
Especially for the youngsters who start taking an interest in this way of life...it might turn them off of it with prices this ridiculous! :aargh4:
Sorry, had to let it out.................:sad6:
So you tell me how much you could knock one out for? (without using 3rd world slave labour). Given that the retailer will add on cost plus about 40%, the manufacturer will be wanting about 20% + shipping in this case I would guess 2 dollars sea freight. This will give you about 75 pounds for materials and labour. In the 1st world labour will cost you about 20-30 pounds an hour including all factory overheads.
We are too used to paying prices that do not reflect the value of what we are buying. As consumers we have a responsibility to make informed buying choices.
Bogeyman
09-08-2008, 13:39
Point taken!!:sulkoff:
But if that is the case, then I would really like to see this in the advertisements/product descriptions. Best would be to have it approved by some institute, like a trademark for fare trade such as www.mavhavelaar.nl.
But again MortalMerlin.....point taken....must learn more to see things in a different perspective, not just for my own benefit!:o
ArkAngel
09-08-2008, 14:08
Why do we go through this EVERY TIME a new piece of high quality equipment comes out on the Woodlore website?
£250 for a knife:eek:
£100 for a shirt:eek:
£130 for a tarp:eek:
It is really quite simple. The Woodlore team want to make money...it is a business after all. We apply the same principle at work, we don't sell rubbish. That way the customers remain happy and we get an easier life not dealing with warranty claims etc.
I have had a few things from Woodlore and they will probably outlast me the way they are built and the reasonably light use they get. The quality of all items are top notch no doubt about it. There are alternatives that are cheaper and for the most part will do the same job, you don't want to pay £130 for a tarp? fine go find a cheaper one...that is the principle of a free market economy.
I'm after a new Gore-tex jacket after 15 years of faithful service from my Berghaus. Evil-bay not inclusive Woodlore is the cheapest source i have found for a Norrana Recon (had a look round and that's what i fancy). Without going into too much detail the customer service i have received from them in my communication with them is nothing short of incredible. The country would be in a lot better shape if more company's ran their business (that word again) the same way.
Rant over:soapbox: but threads like this are one of the reasons that i don't frequent this site as often as i used to.
Scots_Charles_River
09-08-2008, 17:10
Buying the supertarp is a false economy, as you will only want to buy more high price products.
Nick
ArkAngel
09-08-2008, 18:50
Buying the supertarp is a false economy, as you will only want to buy more high price products.
Nick
Granted, however the main question then is...can you afford it?
I am married to a lovely woman who doesn't mind what i spend my money on as long as the bills are paid. We both have reasonably well paid jobs, no kids and few vices.
As i have said in another thread "What the hell, if you can afford it....why not!?"
Squidders
09-08-2008, 20:33
It's £130 and it'll keep you and a few other people and kit dry for a long time i'm sure.
It's not like buying a £35,000 landrover to fit a lifestyle image... it's only £130!
Scots_Charles_River
09-08-2008, 20:56
Granted, however the main question then is...can you afford it?
I am married to a lovely woman who doesn't mind what i spend my money on as long as the bills are paid. We both have reasonably well paid jobs, no kids and few vices.
As i have said in another thread "What the hell, if you can afford it....why not!?"
My original post needed a smile after the statement. :)
You may well be able to afford it but do you need it that is the question. If it was sold in a NON ray mears shop, people would probably not buy it. A parallel with that Iphone, a year later nearly half the price.
So, does it perform a lot better than std tarps ? Had time to use it in heavy rain like here in central scotland for two days ?
Nick
ArkAngel
09-08-2008, 21:36
My original post needed a smile after the statement. :)
You may well be able to afford it but do you need it that is the question. If it was sold in a NON ray mears shop, people would probably not buy it. A parallel with that Iphone, a year later nearly half the price.
So, does it perform a lot better than std tarps ? Had time to use it in heavy rain like here in central scotland for two days ?
Nick
No but i have had time to use some of the other "expensive" items of outdoor gear that i have in Scotland (Highlands and Isle of Skye where we got married) and taking into account the gear i had and the gear others had, my stuff was worth every penny.
I stayed warmer and drier, i agree that £130 does appear to be steep for a tarp but there are alternatives that are nearly as expensive from other suppliers:
http://www.tamarackoutdoors.co.uk/dispprod.pl?filtera=Equipment% 20List&filterb=Tarps&filterc=Tatonka
As to your final question i would say a resounding no to "So, does it perform a lot better than std tarps ? " I am sure that cheaper tarps will perform just as well. It's just down to consumer choice and what you are prepared to pay.
Would i pay £130 for tarp.....no, i have little use for one
Will i pay £300 for a waterproof jacket.....absolutely, i use them frequently
I've just bought two tarps from a plastics company
2.7mtr x 3.5mtr lightweight 100gsm
rope reinforced edging with brass eylets every metre
made in dpm colour
plus 50mtr of 4mm plastic twine
with the addition of a few tape loops sewn on at strategic places they will make an ideal roof for my hammock plus a dry area for my fire, cooking, and sitting area.
How much?
£9.85p plus £3.50 p & p delivered in 2 days!
Let me think £130 for one ....or two plus 50mtr twine for £13...............mmmmmh ................difficult?
I recieved a very large Tatonka tarp from Lurch today, I also got some glow in the dark line loks and some reflective guy lines to stop somebody falling over them when drunk! It is the poly cotton version, absolutely huge and very pleasing on the eye (I cannot stand the sickly green colour, sorry!) and cost about 50 sheets. Lines were another tenner, I think. It was all paid for from my Bring and Buy items at the Moot and from the metal I took to the scrappies a few weeks back. I will be able to easily sling two hammocks underneath, as long as I can find the right trees! This is gonna be important as the kids will be accompanying me on more and more trips now. Hopefully, the height I will have the tarp above any fire will save it from sparks, and I'd only have one under the edge if it was absolutely sheeting it down and I needed to cook something.
130 quid seems a hell of a lot for the item you are actually getting, remeber you could get some Mors Kochanski string for that price and still have enough change for a Big Mac! ;)
People will pay what they want, for what they want. Be smart, let them pay what they want and you go get the cheaper alternative. I sold my old traditional sized aussie hootchie, not because I didn't like it or because it was too heavy, but because there is no way I can get two hammocks underneath it. They really do blend in well with our woodlands and are robust bits of kit. Saying that, the Tatonka is pretty damned nice too, and it weighs just about the same amount!
Flameing cammo again!!! :buttkick: :twak: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:
Uncle Ray, please could you get some in GREEN !! :notworthy
Squidders
09-08-2008, 23:26
you coul always start getting green ones made and sell 'em yourself.
Enough of the green! Half the people at the Moot looked like the bloody Green Goddess herself! I was expecting Mad Lizzy to turn up next!
:D
Better green than that 'no! no! look at me!':red: I climb mountains day glow stuff you can see from orbit.
Never understood why people who go hill walking in the UK dress so that that they can see that there are 500 other people on the same mountain.:dunno: Kind of kills the romance of mountain solitude.....:confused:
I agree that camo makes you look like a nut, but it helps with the bird watching.
Anyway, since when did how you dress reflect anything about the quality of your character? :nono:
When I showed the wife my new tarp she replied, 'wow, another green thing', .....sarcy cow!
Brown, black, cocoon (whatever colour that is meant to be, but it sure looks purdy!), there are plenty of other earthy colours other than green! I tend to wear either brown or grey trews, I wear various different coloured shirts (Pendletons range from a reddish/tan sort of autumnal mix through blue to an off white/grey type, Dockers shirts in tan and black and green army shirt. OK, one is green! :D) and wear a Blackwatch patter Swanni. My green Ranger shirt hardly ever gets used now, I don't even know where it is at the moment!
It makes sense for mountaineers to wear garish bright colours, it helps to locate them should anything untoward happen. Flourescent green, yellow, and red show up well against the muted grays, browns, and greens of a typical mountain.
If your like me I like to blend in to the background in the woods and have a "leave no trace" mentality. But there is little chance that rescue teams would have to find me if I fell over.
These climbers are doing the sensible thing .... if they fall it's a whole different ball game so their choice of clothing has a life saving element attached.
Squidders
10-08-2008, 01:29
You don't have to fall to need finding... the number of sharp things we play with, you'd think we'd opt for the "better red than dead" attitude.
I guess the reason most of us blend in is to avoid other people... Most animals don't give a damn what colour we wear as long as we sit still and quiet.
Could'nt agree more squidders!
Surely when you sever your femoral artery, your clothing will turn red!
:D
Scots_Charles_River
10-08-2008, 17:51
Talking of prices, the cooking equipment section has some nice zebra style billies for £15. So good value.
http://www.raymears.com/Bushcraft_Products/Cooking_Equipment/
JonBaker
11-08-2008, 18:39
In the hope of something constructive coming out of this thread - I was actually looking for a large tarp for next time I go camping with the kids - a roof for a general sitting and eating area out of the rain (or sun - if we are so lucky) + somewhere for me to sleep under while the rest sleep in the tent. I am not sure what size I will need and I want to be able to actually carry it in a ruck sack rather than make a separate visit just to get my tarp.
From what I can see there are several options:
Ray Mears; 3.4 x 4.5m, 1.5kg (inc lines), PU coated Nylon, £140, Lines Included
Aiguille; 3 x 4m, 1.4kg, Silicone coated Nylon, £105, Lines Extra (10m perlon + 30m para 550 = £15)
True North Big Tarp; 3 x 4.5m, 1.8kg, Ripstop Polyester, £91, Lines Extra £15
Hillberg; 3 x 3.5m, 0.57kg, Kerlon 1200, £125, Lines Included
Tanonka; 4.5 x 4.5m, 1.75kg, Polyester, £98.5, Lines Extra £15
Tarps to go; 3.5 x 4.5m, 4.5kg, Polyethylene, £10 Lines Extra £10
DD ? ? ? ? ?
Any suggestions on size, material ?
There is a 3 x 4 metre tarp by tatonka that would suit your needs better than a square 4 x 4. I'd go polycotton if there is any chance of sparks from the fire coming anywhere near your tarp. The weight is worth the size of dry area!
mortalmerlin
11-08-2008, 19:14
Any suggestions on size, material ?
For material no but for size I took one of my kids out under two hootchies stuck together which is about 3x3.5m (ish). I think that would be a tight fit for more than two + kit, you know how kids like to sleep in the direction that provides you with the least space :(
JonBaker
11-08-2008, 19:26
There is a 3 x 4 metre tarp by tatonka that would suit your needs better than a square 4 x 4. I'd go polycotton if there is any chance of sparks from the fire coming anywhere near your tarp. The weight is worth the size of dry area!
Nice one - not too heavy either. I must admit that polycotton sounds good. I think I would want a fire aound the edge and I would hate to pay loads of money just to end up with a hole in it from a spark or two.
What is the pack size like?
JonBaker
11-08-2008, 19:29
For material no but for size I took one of my kids out under two hootchies stuck together which is about 3x3.5m (ish). I think that would be a tight fit for more than two + kit, you know how kids like to sleep in the direction that provides you with the least space :(
So you would probably agree with spamel that a 3 x 4 would be a good size
mortalmerlin
11-08-2008, 19:29
you coul always start getting green ones made and sell 'em yourself.
I looked and the RM hootchie has a label in it - Robco products. They have a site http://www.robcoproducts.com.au/ which is of no use at all except for their number. Maybe they do a green one.
mortalmerlin
11-08-2008, 19:31
So you would probably agree with spamel that a 3 x 4 would be a good size
I haven't tried it with more than one child but yes I would agree with Spamel, that size would seem about right.
Any suggestions on size, material ?
I have a variety of tarps, but my favourite is my Tatonka 4.5m x 4.5m polycotton. Its great for 2 hammocks, with plenty of room to spare. Alternatively you could get 4 ground dwellers with room to spare under it. Also it is better around fire and sparks than the lighter versions.
A picture paints a thousand words...
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd178/simonandbev/DSCN1902.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd178/simonandbev/DSCN1903.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd178/simonandbev/DSC00443.jpg
In defence of Woodlore, I have recently bought a Sabre 75 from them, delivered next day (a Saturday!), for less than I could get one locally from Tamarack - even with my FM 15% discount. Customer service is second to none, and by only selling quality products they ensure customer satisfaction. If you want cheap and cheerful, there are plenty of alternatives .... the choice is yours!
HTH
Simon
JonBaker
11-08-2008, 20:35
I have a variety of tarps, but my favourite is my Tatonka 4.5m x 4.5m polycotton. Its great for 2 hammocks, with plenty of room to spare. Alternatively you could get 4 ground dwellers with room to spare under it. Also it is better around fire and sparks than the lighter versions.
A picture paints a thousand words...
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd178/simonandbev/DSCN1902.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd178/simonandbev/DSCN1903.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd178/simonandbev/DSC00443.jpg
In defence of Woodlore, I have recently bought a Sabre 75 from them, delivered next day (a Saturday!), for less than I could get one locally from Tamarack - even with my FM 15% discount. Customer service is second to none, and by only selling quality products they ensure customer satisfaction. If you want cheap and cheerful, there are plenty of alternatives .... the choice is yours!
HTH
Simon
Can not seem to see photos
I can see them in my original post and your quotation of the post ... sorry but I can not offer any advice on the technical issues, just that I really rate the Tataonka 4.5m x 4.5m polycotton tarp!
Simon
There is also a cocoon colour available from Tatonka, look at Waylands' websites for pictures of what looks like a snady sort of green colour. It is very pleasing on the eye and blends in OK in woodland. Pack size on my tarp is about the same as my old Aussie Hootchie! It fits in a storage bag about the same size as a small travel pillow, in fact that is what I will use the bag for when the tarp is up. Spare clothing tucked inside will make a fantastic pillow! Double the use! :D
In the 1st world labour will cost you about 20-30 pounds an hour including all factory overheads.
Not in the UK, plumbers excepted, for machinists the rate is nearer £8.00 - £10.00 an hour and normally its on a piece work basis. My departed Mum-in-Law was a machinist for nearly 60 years and worked as self employed for most of that time. She worked for top designers producing one off's for the rich, infamous and royalty and earned around £80 a day for knocking out multi thousand pound £ frocks.
I had a small business knocking out specialist webbing and weapons cases, till the MOD took exception to buying gear from one of its own soldiers. I would expect it to take a machinist less than an hour to knock out one of these tarps. Material costs, if you are buying 70d by the roll in qty is nearer £1.50 a metre.........even, dare I say it, for camo.
But at the end of the day people can make their own mind up what they are going to buy and where they are going to buy it from.
I have a tarp, 3 by 2m, 350g, perfectly happy with it. it's beginning to show an occasional hole, but I should get 50 more nights out of it. And for £2.50, I'm happy.
Gaffer tap is your friend :D another 100nights !!
mortalmerlin
27-08-2008, 13:10
Not in the UK, plumbers excepted, for machinists the rate is nearer £8.00 - £10.00 an hour and normally its on a piece work basis.
Sorry to dissagree but when you include all overheads, not just the wages of the person your paying, the figure is as I stated (in a past life I used to be an accountant working in a UK electronics factory) ;) .