View Full Version : Simon stove
Does anyone of you guys (and girls! :wink: ) got some experience with the Simon stove? Saw it in the store last weekend, and I must say it looks very interesting - think it fits nicely underneath my SnowPeak 900 pot :o):
Some pics - so you know what I'm talking about:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~we2a-sod/stove-gif/ss-as-3.gif
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~we2a-sod/stove-gif/ss-as-2.gif
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~we2a-sod/stove-gif/ss-as-4.gif
http://www.outdoorbedarf.de/Kocher/Spiritus/S_SimonStove_ot4.jpg
The stove runs on denatured alcohol - is this the same as the "meths" for the Trangia?
Site (http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~we2a-sod/stove-data/simon-al.htm) with more info & specifications (boils a pint of water in less then 4.5 minutes).
:wave:
TheViking
21-09-2004, 17:19
Wow, that looks interesting. :shock: :wink:
Paganwolf
21-09-2004, 21:22
looks good Johan, where from :?: how much :?: :naughty:
JP:
The stove costs €27.50 (£19.34) - and I saw it at my local outdoorshop Bever (http://www.bever.nl) - catalogue only in dutch (select "Keuken" on the left & "download PDF").
When you run "Simon stove" trough Google (www.google.com/ncr), you will find some hits in English (and German ... and Norwegian - but mine is a bit rusty :wink: ) & a few online stores.
Did you had a look on this site (http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~we2a-sod/stove-data/simon-al.htm)? There are some specifications about the stove on it.
:wave:
masongary44
22-09-2004, 09:20
Alcohol is Ethanol.... De-natured Alcohol has had Methanol added to it to make it un-useable / un-fit for consumption. It is generally very hard to buy pure alcohol because of tax and duty on the stuff... people would probably kill themselves with it too... Even when I worked in a research laboratory a few years ago, you had to measure what you needed, justify its use and sign for it.....
Meths / Methylated Spirits / De-Natured Alcohol, is Ethanol with a very low percentage (~5%) of Methanol added (and usually a trace of blue dye - with possibly a few other trace nasties?? - it depends on the source and the intended use). It is generally very hard to buy pure alcohol because of tax and duty on the stuff... people would probably kill themselves with it too... Even when I worked in a research laboratory a few years ago, you had to measure what you needed, justify its use and sign for it.....
Just for the record, Methanol is really quite nasty if ingested, a very small amount in your blood can cause blindness amongst other things!!
Chemically they are both very similar with Methanol having a similar but lower boiling point and burning slightly cleaner.
the box they come in feels heavy, i skipped the simon and went for the trangia stove. Cost less too. Haven't seen one burn, though
the box they come in feels heavy, i skipped the simon and went for the trangia stove. Cost less too. Haven't seen one burn, though
Yes PC2K - quite heavy, over 200 grams if I remember correctly ... Although not a enormous burden, but lighter would be nice, wouldn't it?
Had a good look at the Trangia stove too though! But because I've already got a windscreen & pot - this stove looks more interesting at the moment.
Masongary44: thanks for (m)ethanol / denatured - alcohol info, cristal clear now!! :You_Rock_
Think I'm gonna save up some money, buy the stove and give it a good test (for a review?) - since nobody got experience with this thingy :roll: - still looks very good to me.
:wave:
Johan, I have seen on the net a homemade version of this stove, if I can find the link tonight I will post it here.
You will find the homemade version will be considerably lighter as they tend to be made by people who do things like mountain marathons.
I have just finished a homemade stove (adapted photon stove design) and used it on the tracking course I attended this weekend, it outperforms the commercial trangia and weighs nothing.
I have just finished a homemade stove (adapted photon stove design) and used it on the tracking course I attended this weekend, it outperforms the commercial trangia and weighs nothing.
I want pictures and data Leon. :wink: :o):
Just in the process of building my fourth this weekend. All with slight variations, this one I'm hoping will be the simplest and best. It's another variant of the photon, but made from Red Bull cans - it's tiny.
Oh, and in case no one has seen this before Zen's Stoves (http://home.comcast.net/~agmann/stove/) is the best homebuild archive I've found to date. Better than Wings stove archives IMO.
I want pictures and data Leon. :wink: :o):
Just in the process of building my fourth this weekend. All with slight variations, this one I'm hoping will be the simplest and best. It's another variant of the photon, but made from Red Bull cans - it's tiny.
Martyn, you and I are on the same wavelength, I am using red rooster cans from somerfield (they are the same size as red bull, but they are made out of recycleable steel) and a tomato puree can. The tomato puree can gives you a higher fuel capacity and more rigidity to the sides (a little more robust).
The filler hole is one of the threaded rivet nut type, size M5 or M6 seems best.
The new potstand and windshield are from the disposable bar-b-que trays, so the whole thing is pretty much recycled :wink:.
I haven't put a clock on it yet, but Neil 1 was using a normal Trangia burner in his setup, I started the homemade about five minutes after he started his and it had boiled enough water to fill a metal mug (1 pint) in what we reckon was less than 4 minutes, it had done it before the normal trangia had managed to get to the boil :o):.
The initial flames that come off it are absolutely ferocious :yikes: and a 200ml container holds enough fuel for 5 or 6 fills of the stove, I think this is slightly over filling the stove to be honest, but they are truly amazing when they get going :biggthump
Here (http://home.att.net/%7Eofuzzy1/alcohol.htm) is the link that I was thinking of.
This is very much like the site that Martyn recomended and has a lot of different stove combinations (http://www.fallingwater.com/pct2000/gear/KissStove.asp). I hope that any or all will come in handy :-)
Had a disaster with the stove leon. I got this far...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/trangia/redbull1.jpg
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/trangia/redbull2.jpg
Top half drilled etc. I was using a red bull can for both halves, so planned to stretch the top half a little (top half was gonna be the outer half). I was gonna warm up the top half with a butane torch and slide it over the bottom of the other can, which was greased up with fairy liquid. I put the torch flame onto the can and it shriveled up under the heat. I then discovered red bull cans are made of exceedingly thin aluminium, not steel. Doof!
As you can see, I was even taking pics to show off my L337 stove skillz! :o):
Gonna try again tomorrow with steel cans this time. :roll:
Does the puree can fit inside or outside the red rooster can? Some good can info here Leon. ;)
Sorry to hear about the failure Martyn, I have tried using two of the steel red rooster cans, I had one major issue and that was that I kept on splitting the outer tin, hence now using the puree tin.
I have also put the holes further up on the rim, that way the JB Weld has a good area to fill and set. I'll look at getting some pictures up of it when I get a chance with some detailed info, burn times and the like. I'll also be building another one soon so I'll get some detailed instructions done.
My variant doesnt use the "top lip" method. So the can with the burner holes is the outer can. I'm relying on a priming dish to get the stove up to temp. I take it the rooster can fits inside the puree can?
oh yeah, how many burner holes are you using? I put 24 on the red bull above. It's untested though. My last stove was a pepsi/caffreys combination with double walls, like a trangis. Works well, but I really wanted to try out a mini pressurised stove.
oh yeah, how many burner holes are you using? I put 24 on the red bull above. It's untested though. My last stove was a pepsi/caffreys combination with double walls, like a trangis. Works well, but I really wanted to try out a mini pressurised stove.
Currently there are only sixteen jets in the burner, 8 on the rim and 8 on the inside of the rim, I may well increase this to 20 overall as when it fires up it can be a little frightening :yikes:.
I had used sixteen to increase the pressure in the stove, I don't think that I require quite that much though :wink: .
Currently there are only sixteen jets in the burner, 8 on the rim and 8 on the inside of the rim, I may well increase this to 20 overall as when it fires up it can be a little frightening :yikes:.
I had used sixteen to increase the pressure in the stove, I don't think that I require quite that much though :wink: .
Yeah, there is something :yikes: about setting fire to boiling, pressurised ethanol.
How do you spell bomb? :o):
Yeah, there is something :yikes: about setting fire to boiling, pressurised ethanol.
How do you spell bomb? :o):
Well it certainly goes like one as the bottom of my pans can verify :o):
Leon & Martyn:
Looks super!! :super: Thanks for the info and links! :You_Rock_
I will certainly give it a go to make my own stove out of old cans - though it looks a bit explosive :yikes: :o):
I think it's good fun to try, and it's part of bushcraft isn't it? Improvising kit you haven't got, or which is too expensive :biggthump
Keep me posted about the progess you guys make with the stoves already underconstruction!
Johan, as soon as I have verifiable data to post I will, I'll also get a few pictures up as well, this may take some time as the coming weekend is already spoken for, but i'll try to get some bits up next week. :-)
Johan, as soon as I have verifiable data to post I will, I'll also get a few pictures up as well, this may take some time as the coming weekend is already spoken for, but i'll try to get some bits up next week. :-)
Cheers mate!
Take your time with those picies, I will keep an eye on this thread.
Watch your eyebrowes when you set that stove alight :yikes:
Hmm i'm going to have to try one of these home build pressurised alcohol stoves.
Gary where did you get the one you had at the wilderness gathering?
Hmm i'm going to have to try one of these home build pressurised alcohol stoves.
Gary where did you get the one you had at the wilderness gathering?
Hmmm, I wonder :?: :wink:
I take it is from was from you leon
ditchfield
26-09-2004, 11:52
I've made 2 stoves from V8 cans, but yesterday was the 1st time ive tested them (well I only tryed one). It was a failure. It is based on the Halcon stove design which is very simple and made out of one can. I managed to get it lit so that the fuel was burning in the center, but it wouldn't move to the outside jets. I suppose i'll try a more complex design.
I've been looking at those pressure stove designs as well - can anyone suggest suitable glues that I could pick up from the average DIY in the UK. The only glue I know that does decent temps is a mix of sodium silicate and calcium carbonate and it's not exactly fast setting.
Realgar
Yep - JB Weld is available from Halfords - they also do aluminium adhesive tape.
Dont use JB Kwick, it's not got the same temperature rating and the full pukka JB Weld.
note: JB Weld is also excellent in cutlery construction.
Halfords - ok, looks like I actually have to brave going into town. Or possibly raid the workshop caliming I need it for the Xray machine or something.....
By the way - why does the Trangia stove require you to add 25% water to the fuel?
Realgar
Halfords - ok, looks like I actually have to brave going into town. Or possibly raid the workshop caliming I need it for the Xray machine or something.....
By the way - why does the Trangia stove require you to add 25% water to the fuel?
Realgar
It doesnt require it, but it burns with a more blue flame if you add 10% - 20% water. I think it burns a bit cooler, but the flame is much better and doesnt soot up yer pots nearly as much. I havent done a boil test to see how it affects performance, I would imagine a *bit8 slower to boil - but water is pretty cheap. ;)
Well today I started of with the intention of trying to get a new stove built overnight, so these are the bits that i started withhttp://uk.f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/l30n4ndr3ws/detail?.dir=/7e96&.dnm=c9cc.jpg
Well tonight I started making a new stove, with the intention of putting up photos of it's progress as I went, but I have just hit a hickup, the cans that I normally use are red rooster cans and they were steel, they now appear to be aluminium :?:
So the really small stoves may be a no go untill I find another supplier of steel tin cans that are of the correct size, this does not affect anyone who is making a normal photon stove as the steel cans that you use for them are easily available as 7up, pepsi or shandy bass cans, but it has left me a little peeved :aargh4: cause I recckon I could have got the whole thing done tonight apart from allowing the JB Weld to cure.
Oh well it just means that tomorrow I can get on with a full sized one that I am making :wink: and get on with the trials for the mini one that is already made :-)
My variant doesnt use the "top lip" method. So the can with the burner holes is the outer can. I'm relying on a priming dish to get the stove up to temp. I take it the rooster can fits inside the puree can?
Sorry Martyn, should of answered this before, yes it does, but not with ease, I have just tried it with the alu can and it actually gives quite a good fit on the outside of the puree can, I had forgotten that configration and may well try it for the next one if I can get another steel tin to work with :biggthump.
The only thing that worries me about it is that with the internal top tin the heat from the jets heat the top of the outer tin perpetuating the the gas transfer, I dont know how well the other method would work, but thanks for the idea, now all I need is a ready supply of tins :o):
Well this is how the mini photon stove started life
http://img35.exs.cx/img35/1066/P1010037Small.jpg
This is what it looks like now
http://img49.exs.cx/img49/4105/P1010055Small.jpg
This is it next to the original, it is slightly taller, but it weighs less and has a similair fuel capacity.
http://img49.exs.cx/img49/2091/P1010056Small.jpg
There will be a few details to follow as I am off now to do a few tests :wink:
Wow :shock: , that's looking cool ... :roll: hot ... :o): Leon! :biggthump
Definately have to give it a go trying to make me one :naughty:
Damn Leon, we must've been separated at birth. I've just finished glueing together "Martyn's mini photon" and should be ready for testing later tonight or maybe tomorrow. I took pics of all the construction steps for a "how-to" if it comes together well and works properly.
it started as....
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/mmp/mmp001.jpg
after some work...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/mmp/mmp006.jpg
a tight squeeze...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/mmp/mmp010.jpg
and...
http://www.britishblades.com/pics/mmp/mmp013.jpg
nearly there....
...you'll have to wait for the full set of over 20 construction pics and the how-to ...that's assuming it doesnt blow up.
Well I have just finished a test, this is the kit that was used on my back patio on a blustery Tuesday afternoon,
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/6804/P1010057Small.jpg
my normal pan set (cheap Gelert) with 600ml of water, obviously the stove, mineralised meths from focus (with my normal fuel bottles next to it), an MSR windshield (the other one is for a 10cm pot which I am waiting for), a syringe (so I could accurately gauge the amount of meths used) and a container to collect the meths from (bottom half of another stove in the making).
I used thirty five ml in the stove and 3ml to preheat, lighting is a doddle.
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/9712/P1010058Small.jpg
after twenty seconds,
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/6252/P1010060Small.jpg
after 4mins 20secs,
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/936/P1010062Small.jpg
and this is what it was like inside at around 10 seconds later,
http://img9.exs.cx/img9/7893/P1010063Small.jpg
it burned for a total of 17mins 42 seconds with a fuel load of 35ml which means five or six meal sessions out of one 200ml drinks bottle. The flame reduces to a lower level that you can simmer on after about 8 mins.
When it was originally setup it was a little quicker, which would mean that the jets are probably a little sooted up, but you could probably get around this by using a little water in the meths.
All in all it isn't a bad little stove considering it weighs virtually nothing and cost pretty much the same. :wink:
Damn Leon, we must've been separated at birth.
We do appear to be on a similair wavelength, you must have been writing that as I was writing the other, however your presentation is better than mine :biggthump, I tend to leave the paint on as it helps to prevent rusting on the steel constructin of the ones that I have been building.
i got this lazy thing of just keeping with my trusty halcon DIY stove. Saves me the hassel of pre-heating too. i got to say that that setup looks like me, except i use a trangia or halcon stove and my pan is a snowpeak track 900.
those proton's looks good, though.
i've been using pepsican burners for a few years now. i reckon that the windshield makes all the difference. it's as much the heart of the trangia as the burner.
i took my trusty halcon stove with disposeable barbeque potstand and shield on the woodsmoke nomad course a couple of weeks back, we had some pretty horrendous conditions. it's definately all the stove you'll ever need. turn the burner up side down for use with solid fuel tablets.
leon, i have found that you don't need to bother with a nut and bolt to hold the stand together, just bend it into a "C" shape and you can adjust it to suit various size pots. the only problems i have had with them is sometimes they can be a bit unstable, being able to pull the stand wider when you can't find a flat patch can be a boon.
a friend of mine made me a stand from aluminium, it melted and bent when used with hexy blocks.
i did some experiments with burn times and so on a while ago and posted them on another forum.
esbit stove &c. (http://www.knifeforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB42&Number=186894&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=1&vc=1)
cheers, and.
Cheers Sargey, the nut and bolt is just a personal preference (basically I have a rivet nut gun and I am going to use it :o):) currently if it can be held together with a bolt and rivet nut and is convenient it gets one.
Thanks for the tip with the windshield and stand at the gathering, it was much appreciated and makes life a lot easier when making them :biggthump .
I am still experimenting, I am half way through building one of the stoves that Martyn has just posted pictures of, I'll see how that works out :wave: